I think the relevant point that everyone here missed is that he left college a
year early to be a 7th round draft pick. Good move. That does not bode well
for a long NFL career, but it does hurt the utes a lot. LOL
I think worf would agree, "Resistance Is Futile".
It is very apparent that football season can't get here soon enough.
Sammy-"25 hours and 9 minutes later at 8:26 p.m. April 30, 2013Welcome back! LOL"-Yes, we football fans can try to wait until
fall, but 25 hours is a valiant effort.
ikute... you're a funny guy7:17 p.m. April 29, 2013"I
think I'll give it a rest for a while... See you guys this fall!"25 hours and 9 minutes later at 8:26 p.m. April 30, 2013Welcome back! LOL
goredI was a BYU fan loooong before I was a Utah grad. My father and
father-in-law, and many of my uncles, aunts and cousins are also Utah grads, so
I've always rooted for Utah, as long as Utah winning didn't adversely
affect BYU.As far as dominance, IF Utah had actually accomplished
something of consequence, Utah's head-to-head record versus BYU would be
meaningful.Unfortunately for Utah, BYU's accomplishments since
1964 dwarf anything Utah has accomplished on a national scale during Utah's
@uteanymousYou pretend to be a Utah alum and a converted byu fan as
though we true Ute fans should somehow feel ashamed of our school. I'm not
sure if you truly are a Utah alum, why you'd start rooting for your rivals,
but I guess that is a topic for a different discussion.Anyway, weak
attempt on your part to diminish Utah's domination over your adopted team.
You call my claims "deluded", then conveniently omit 3 dominating
victories Utah has had over the past 9 years, which are as follows: 52-21,
48-24, and, oh yeah, 54-10 in Provo.You point out byu's success
over Utah during 1972-1991 (what about the previous 4 years prior to 1972?) Or
the previous 10, 20 30, even 50 years prior to that?? There was a time when
Utah owned byu to the tune of 39-5, according to byu records that does not
acknowledge the first 6 games of the rivalry. Yes, that's domination.So is the current 3 in a row, 4 out of 5, 8 out of 11, and overall
56-34-4, as I said in my previous post.
@UteanymousYou ought to be a disk jockey. That's the best spin
I've ever heard. lol.Go Utes.
Sorry gored, you misread the tea leaves - Utah alum, BYU fan.As for
superiority:Long term success for Utah means absolutely nothing. The
vast majority of Utah's 56-34-4 head-to-head was compiled from 1922 to 1963
when Utah did absolutely NOTHING on a national scale. If being an extremely
mediocre team beating up on even more mediocre teams helps you sleep at night,
knock yourself out.Recent success for Utah means a little more, but
head-to-head by itself doesn't mean much if your overall success is
lacking, which clearly, it is.Bottom line, during the current
coaching era, Bronco has more conference championships, more Top 25 finishes,
more Top 15 finishes, more winning seasons, more bowls, and a better overall
record than Kyle.As far as your deluded head-to-head
"domination" theory, 13 of the last 16 head-to-head games have been
decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime, including
2 of the Utah's 3 recent wins.For true head-to-head domination,
see 1972 to 1991, 18 of 20, including 27-0, 56-6 and 56-28 back-to-back-to-back.
@uteanymousIt's interesting that you, a BYU "fan (as
duckhunter/sammy) would say, pay homage to your rival with your choice of a
pseudonym.Anyway, back to the real issue. In this article on the
Utes' Joe Kruger, there have been many byu "fans" who have posted,
trying somehow to say how superior their program is. But in true competition,
the only way to settle this is on the field. And what are the results both
recently and long-term? Well, Utah has won 3 in a row, 4 of the last 5 ( it
took all senior Max Hall could muster to lead byu from behind to win by 3 over a
freshman AT HOME.). Utah has also won 8 of 11, and overall 56-34-4.I
really don't know what the issue is here. Utah has dominated, is
dominating, and forever will dominate their rivals from Provo.
MyPerspective"Naval has it right. The events you cite occurred
after BSU greased the skids for BYU."Sorry, but you're both
wrong! BSU may have wanted BYU in the conference as a travel partner, but Boise
State had absolutely NOTHING to do with "greasing the skids" for BYU.Big East Commissioner John Marinatto had been talking to BYU about
joining the league for weeks prior to negotiations stalling over television
rights in late November 2011, long before BSU agreed to join the Big East. In
fact, talk of BYU being a serious candidate for Big East membership began as
early as May 2011, months before discussions with BSU began.
Marked it down is also right. BYU was approached by the big least before BSU.
Reports were that as of march the big least was still begging BYU.
Marked it Down: Naval has it right. The events you cite occurred after BSU
greased the skids for byu. Make no mistake about it, byu did the right thing in
turning down the invite to the Big East but honestly, it was kind of a no
brainer by the time byu entered the picture. The defections to the ACC and Big
12 were written all over the wall. The Big12 clearly knew who they wanted.
Naval VetOnce again, you've allowed your BYU-hatred to cloud
your understanding of the actual sequence of events. BYU was in
discussions about joining the Big East long before Boise State entered the
picture, but the Big East wasn't willing to let BYU retain television
rights to BYU home games and BYU, after their experience with the MWC,
wasn't willing to give up those rights for uncertain promises in a new, yet
to be negotiated, Big East television contract.During a year when
teams across the country were panicking to join a major conference, BYU
maintained its composure and made the correct decision not to get sucked into a
splintering "bcs" conference.Boise State and SDSU finally
came to the same conclusion and, in the process, ended up wasting a lot of money
paying exit fees to a conference in which they never played a single game.
Cougsndawgs:"If U recall BYU was asked to 'move up' to
the big east with BSU (actually begged would be more accurate than
asked)."If YOU recall, the Big [L]East asked Boise State to move
up. Your "invitation" only came because BSU agreed to join only if they
could have a travel partner, the suggested Utah's little brother. So
essentially, it was BSU -- not the Big [L]East -- that wanted you in that
conference. BSU seemed just as content with SDSU as a travel partner
instead.Also, if you recall, at the time the Big [L]East extended an
invitation to BSU, they were a crumbling conference expecting defections from
Syracuse, Pitt, and West Virginia, and with Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn
actively posturing to join the Big 12 and/or the ACC. The Big [L]East was
becoming a glorified C-USA. Very mid-majorey. Ultimately, once all
the dust had settled, the very conference that decided to allow you to ride in
on BSU's coattails had also invited schools like ECU, Memphis, and Tulane.
THAT's the company YOU keep...at least when you're not lining up
opposite Middle Tennessee St. anyway.
The back and forth is starting to get old and we just keep going around and
around and back to the same. I think I'll give it a rest for a while.Apparently, some see me as a bully and politically incorrect. I
sincerely apologize to them. I maintain that commenting under sports
articles is fun and not to be taken personal. Regards from a passionate Ute fan.
See you guys this fall. Go Utes.
Agreed Ekute, it's a yr if reckoning for both schools. As far as being in
the PAC12 it really doesn't mean anything if u do nothing with it.
Vanderbilt, Iowa st, and northwestern can't really hold big conference over
anyone's head because they aren't respected football programs in those
conferences. Hopefully the utes can reach a point of more respectability, but
it's going to take more than just being in the PAC 12. Lol...ya jumping off
because we're both losers would suck all the way around. Cheers
You know, I meant lower-tier bowls, dang keyboard. Some my say I got a little to
frantic and emotional. lol. Go Utes.
ekute,This is one Cougar fan who will be pulling for your Utes to
have a breakout year in the PAC...regardless of what you may wish upon my
Cougars. Good luck.
ekuteUtah fans are big on "predictions" based on nothing but
their own wishful thinking.After two years in the PAC 12, the Utes
are a paltry 7-11 in conference, win two losing conference finishes and one
losing season, and U haven't even played two of the best teams in the
@CougsndawgsThe same holds true for your team. After 2 years out on
your own, playing a nothing to brag about Wac-ish schedule and qualifying for
lower team bowls, your now facing a respectable schedule. I said we're
comfortable with the results of the last 2 years, nothing about being satisfied
with the same or less in the future. The time has come to pay the rent for both
sides. Let's hope for the best so we don't have to hold hands and jump
off the ledge together. Back and forth trash talking between 2 losers would not
be fun. But in the long run, if worst comes to worst...We'll still have the
Pac12 to hold over your heads. Go Utes.
@ekuteI have to be honest, if you're satisfied with the results of
the last couple years you are definitely in the minority of Utah fans I know.
What are u going to do when the utes are 5-7 again and you're watching home
alone reruns instead of ute football in December? This is Utah's yr of
reckoning. First yr struggles in a new league are expected, the second yr you
figure to get better, by the third year you're expecting to turn the
corner. I don't think too many Utah fans will be satisfied with a 5-7
record again, and there's a strong possibility of that happening with the
two best teams in the PAC12 being on the schedule. I'll be here to talk u
off the ledge in December ek, because regardless of your allegiance u seem like
a nice guy.
With a respectable schedule for the tds this year, it will be their fans that
have to face reality and find "more time to spend with family and friends
during the holidays without the distraction of having to play in a bowl." As
it should be, or the might enjoy watching the Utes play in the Kraft Fight
Hunger Bowl vs a Big 12 team.
@ AZUTEIt's the players and coaches of both schools that probably get
the biggest kick out if the fans in this rivalry on both sides. Having talked to
and had some friendships with players from both sides, the answer to how they
feel about the BYU Utah rivalry is always the same. "It's another game.
It's the fans that get all wrapped up in it". It's also
interesting how U paint the BYU fans as being in a "bizarre, crazed
state" and "grasping blatant spin" when I've seen ute fans a
plenty on here meeting that description. I agree it is entertaining, though.
It's why this rivalry will hopefully never die. I'm just hoping BYU
can finally beat Utah before the teams don't play each other again for
awhile. As U said we have struggled and been beaten by the utes far too much
recently (it's like the BoSox curse or something lol). CFB can't get
here soon enough...good luck to all the teams in the state of Utah, including
Southern Utah (congrats Brad Sorenson on being drafted).
"Our expectations are starting to rise as the rewards and advantages of our
inclusion begin to come to fruition."Rewards and advantages like
having more time to spend with family and friends during the holidays without
the distraction of having to play in a bowl.
AZUTE1 is exactly right.As Ute fans we're delighted with our
Pac12 membership and comfortable with the results of the last to years. Our
expectations are starting to rise as the rewards and advantages of our inclusion
begin to come to fruition.The repetitive, incessant and feeble
attempts of the haters trying to beat it into our heads that the last 2 years
has been a failure betrays their insecurities about the direction of their own
team."A couple of lucky head-to-head wins in the last three
years"You must face the truth...It's been the last 20 years,
since before Lavelle left.And the sad, awful truth for the tds
is...He's not coming back.Go Utes
What's really surreal is the absolute denial of reality happening on the
hill as the losses continue to mount and Utah's steady decline from high
water mark to mediocrity to train wreck continues.As has already
been posted, it's clear that BYU continues to outperform their little
brothers on the hill.2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39
Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner > unranked/#61
Utah(5-7) bowl no showA couple of lucky head-to-head wins in the
last three years is the only thing U have left to cling to.That and
a growing list of excuses for a return to losing seasons and no bowl games.
@AZUTE1LOL...Love it...High Five...Fist Bump...Chest Bump...etc.Go Utes.
It's actually quite surreal how the core of the byu-fanbase has reacted to
the mounting losses against UTAH, being so utterly/thoroughly dominated by us
UTES. In a vain attempt to "cope", they've gone into this bizarre,
crazed state of desperation and grasping at whatever blatant Spin they can think
of, regurgitated endlessly, or otherwise. And to think they truly believe
they're in fact fooling anybody whatsoever outside of their very own Bubble
down there in utah county where they're annually playing against the
[Formerly] WAC's worst in order just to be able to qualify for entry into a
low-tier bowl game, since they can rarely ever actually beat a good team [during
this current BCS Era, both schools have reached 11 bowl games each, but
UTAH's 10-1 while byu has struggled to stay above .500 at 6-5], is, alone,
truly remarkable to behold and it's, literally, to the point where I just
simply sit back, with popcorn in-hand, mind you, and watch this spectacle unfold
with the utmost glee humanly attainable. Honestly, I wouldn't trade this
chicken with its head cut-off reaction by these people for anything else in the
He should of come back for his last year.
@mypersoectiveIf U recall BYU was asked to "move up" to the big
east with BSU (actually begged would be more accurate than asked). They backed
out which is looking smarter every passing month.
@ekuteThere has been some advantage in recruiting for Utah but not enough
to beat the better half of the PAC 12. Utah won't out recruit the
California schools or Washington and Oregon, nor ASU the majority of the time.
That spells mid to lower teir PAC 12 for the foreseeable future. Even as a BYU
fan, I actually don't want that for Utah. I would like to see any Utah
school do well and cheer for the others when they aren't playing the Cougs.
But it is what it is, it's reality for Utah unfortunately. That would most
likely be the case for BYU also if they were in the big 12. Hard to out recruit
Texas and Oklahoma. Good luck to the utes and aggies this year.
ekuteTalk about frantic and emotional... what exactly has Utah
accomplished in any PAC 12 sport that give credence to your claim that Utah is
"good to go" in the PAC 12?Frankly, the only thing
you've proven so far is that you're incapable of beating a PAC 12
football team with a winning record.At least, as an Independent, BYU
has finished in the Top 25 and has won two bowl games, which is far more than
the Utes have accomplished as a PAC 12 member.
Sammy...Your frantic and emotional name calling betrays you. It's obvious
that you can't handle the truth that Utah is good to go in the Pac12 and
haters are beside themselves stressing about the future of the tds as an
independent.Good Luck to Joe in the NFL. Plenty of size and talent
stepping up to replace him on the Ute squad...thanks to the advantages of
recruiting as a member of a major conference. Go Utes.
Concerning SOS I think going to the BCS rankings themselves (which include SOS)
is the most accurate way to evaluate it. Utah's avg final BCS ranking for
their opponents was 47.63, while BYUs was 55.16. While BYU played two outlier
programs in Idaho and NMSU, they also played many more higher ranked, top 25
opponents. This is a close SOS in terms of the only rankings that have mattered,
and shows that Utah's schedule isn't as superior as they would like
people to think. If you go by AP final rankings BYU had 5 opponents finish in
the top 25 while Utah had only 2. I also love how Utah fans try and elevate
Colorado by saying their 1-11 record is somehow a function of their
"tough" schedule. They lost to "little brothers" Colorado St and
Sacremento St. They stunk even against poor competition. The good news is Utah
plays Oregon and Stanford this year. The bad news is that's likely 2 more
losses on their already mediocre conference record. Also bad news that BYUs SOS
will also be better with their weakest opponent according to BCS rank is Houston
(91). Both teams again play one FCS.
I have to say one thing because it always bugs me. Utah fans often
"frantically and emotionally" state BYU is not wanted or was rejected by
the big leagues. Chip brown who was probably closest to the big 12 expansion
talks stated: " BYU was a serious candidate for expansion until last
September, when OU destabilized the Big 12 when it tried to go to the Pac12. At
that point, BYU officials were turned off by the instability and backed away,
saying it cherished its independence...BYU turned away from the Big 12 first. So
that was a downfall." The big 12 obviously wanted BYU but during the
instability of 2011 BYU wasn't so sure about them. So please stop acting
like no one ever wanted BYU and they were rejected. The big 12 came to BYU not
the other way around so I don't see how BYU could have possibly been
rejected when they never asked to join. There's also this idea that the PAC
12 somehow believed Utah to be superior to BYU. Not at all...from a business
standpoint BYU was worth more, but Utah fit the PAC 10 profile. Had nothing to
do with Utah > BYU.
MyPerspectiveThe bottom line here is that despite your over-inflated
opinion of Utah football, the Utes end the bcs era no more relevant than they
were at the start of the bcs era. Welcome to the world of big boy conference
bottom dwellers that don't even sniff Top 25 rankings and spend their
holidays watching other teams playing in bowl games.
anti BCS, phoenix: Thank you both for your insightful responses. The bottom
line here is that byu accomplished nothing in the BCS era to establish itself as
a program capable of playing at the next level. It is no coincidence that Utah,
TCU, and BSU are the three mid-majors invited to move up (BSU of course moved
then returned).Further, even ND recognizes that, at a minimum, a
quasi conference relationship is necessary to be successful in the upcoming
playoff format. Best of luck to BYU this year and in the years to
I see that the kids on the hill are once again trying to rewrite history to suit
their own distorted view of reality. Unfortunately for them, despite their spin,
the record is already cast in stone and here's what it shows:Comparing BYU and Utah during the Independence/PAC 12 era2011
#25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26
BYU(8-5) bowl winner > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7) bowl no showBYU
was the only team ranked in 2011BYU was the only team to beat a ranked
opponent in 2012BYU gets the trophy for having better records and higher
rankingsUtah gets the trophy for having better SOS
ur/#252009 #12/#12 2008 #25/#21 2007 #14/#15 2006
#16/#15 2001 #25/#24 1996 #5/#5 1994 #18/#10 1991
#23/#23 1990 #22/#17 1989 #22/#18 1985 #16/#17 1984
#1/#1 1983 #7/#7 1981 #13/#11 1980 #12/#11 1979 #13/#12
1977 #20/#16 Utah(7)2010 ur/#232009 #18/#18 2008 #2/#4 2004 #4/#5 2003 #21/#21 1994 #10/#8 1964
ur/#14Sorry to burst your Utah "relevancy" bubble, but
during the "bcs era", BYU has as many AP Top 25 finishes, as Utah has in
its entire college football history.AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah 4AP Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 2Utah
had a couple of great seasons in 2004 and 2008, and little else.Since 2008, the Utes have been in steady decline, to the point that
you're not even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore, let alone be
MyPerspectiveYet, with all your spin, BYU remains a perennial Top 25
program, while even in their heyday, the Utes still couldn't keep pace with
BYU in Top 25 finishes.Top 25 Finishes by Decade1960's
BYU 0, Utah 11970's BYU 2, Utah 01980's BYU 6, Utah 01990's BYU 4, Utah 12000's BYU 5, Utah 42010's BYU
1, Utah 1Total AP/CoachesBYU 18, Utah 7Total APBYU 17, Utah 5Total Bronco/Kyle eraBYU 5, Utah 3You're only fooling yourself if you think that Utah has any better chance
of making the playoffs than BYU.
AZUTE1Congratulations on having the 41st toughest SOS in the
country. Do you get some sort of trophy for that?BYU, with the lowly
63rd toughest schedule will just have to settle for having a better record, a
higher ranking, and another bowl win in their string of 8 straight bowl
appearances, BYU's second longest such string.
The problem, Bluto, is that all of the accomplishments you cite were achieved
over a span of 15 years last century. The game was different and byu was on the
cutting edge of those changes. Since then, college football has passed byu by.
The BCS has come and almost gone and byu has not even sniffed at the prize that
made Utah, TCU, and BSU relevant. Further, we are headed into a playoff format
and byu has no identity or relevant associations in independence land. Again, I want to offer a huge congratulations to Mr. Kruger. He will be
missed in the Utah defense for sure but it is great to have a great talent and
strong character represent the Utah program at the next level.
AZUTE1Despite your frantic and emotional attempt to spin away
Utah's dismal 2012 record because of some vast disparity in SOS, the final
rankings say otherwise.A College Football Ranking Comparison of 124
rankings of all 124 FBS teams compiled by Massey on Monday, January 7, 2013
shows the following rankings for BYU and Utah:BYU(8-5) Sagarin 26,
Massey 26, average 34, high 7, low 60Utah(5-7) Sagarin 61, Massey 65,
average 67, high 36, low 87Quite obviously, the only
"experts" who think that Utah was even close to, let alone better than,
BYU in 2012 are those living in their own little crimson bubble on the hill.btw, according to Sagarin, BYU(63) had almost the same SOS as Ohio
St(60), which accounts for Ohio St only being ranked #13, despite their 12-0
record.Someday you'll realize that you actually have to WIN in
order for a "better schedule" to mean something.
"There-in lies your answer why BYU finished #26 in Sagarin and Utah only
finished #61."It's obviously not getting through. byu
opened against 2 cupcakes at home, then played UTAH/BSU, then had their 3rd week
off in the first 5 weeks of the season at home against Hawaii, then played
usu/OSU/nd, 2 of which UTAH also played against, too [although UTAH played both
on the road, while bywho got them both at home]. Then a GT team from the weak
acc which finished the reg seas with a losing record, then yet 2 more weeks off
in prep for SJSU, with an actual bye-week followed by Idaho at home. Following
SJSU, byu concluded their regular season w/their 7th week off against NMSU.Not even remotely the week in, week out grind UTAH faced and against
virtually all BCS Level Talent, to boot. usu, byu, ASU, USC [which was given
the identical bye-week as we were given], UCLA, OSU and CAL. Then WAZZU
followed by UW/ua, before concluding our season at CU.
At AZUteBYU has a Consensus National Championship (Football).Your 30 year old endless tantrum, notwithstanding.Deal with it.Voted #1 by every NCAA sanctioned poll in 1984.-AP-Coaches-NFF-FWAAAnd 7 others...24
straight wins.16 of those players became Pros.BYU has 8-10 Top
25 programs every year.How bout U?The trophies are secure, and
BYU Athletics continue to produce All-Americans at a clip 5 times that of Utah.
BYU has a Legacy Hall.....Utah has a Closet.-23
Conference Championships in the modern era.-18 Top 25 finishes.-7
Hall of Famers-Legendary Hall of Fame Coach...who stayed.-16
Consensus All-Americans-60+ All-Americans-Super Bowl and NFL
MVP's-23 National Award Winners (Heisman, Outlands, Davey
O'Brians, Sammy Baughs, Doak Walker etc)Ziggy was the talk of
the draft.Pitta is a star on the Super Bowl Champion Ravens.UtahWho?Your "False Bravado" has been exposed.BYU's Legacy and National Brand well are established...Utah can
only dream.....Legacy Programs are developed over Generations, and
not by having 6 good years in 50. When Utah matches what BYU has
accomplished, then you can boast, until the, strive for .500.
@ c1--Search 2012 fbs final sos rankings and go through them all. A
good starting point would be with fbsched.My fellow UTE above hit it
on the head. Say what you will about CU, but they possess BCS Talent and play
one of the nation's toughest schedules, annually. They've just simply
been poorly coached is all. I bring them up because by season's end,
they'd been through the gauntlet and would've easily dispatched of the
cupcakes byu played against. And CU was merely 1 game at season's end.
byu had 4 non bye-weeks off with Weber State, Hawaii, Idaho and culminating with
NMSU.Attempt to point to comparable weeks off in UTAH's
schedule? And I challenge you to be straight about it, without resorting to
Spin.BTW--byu also played against WAZZU, too.
Duckhunter: Wrong. What I said was..."All other teams Utah has played in
the Pac-12 conference are split execpt for (USC, Washington, Arizona St).
That's it...there are three teams in the elite Pac-12 conference against
whom the Utes have not yet prevailed at least one time"The Utes
cannot beat or lose to a team they have not yet played. Your attempt to
discredit my post by taking it out of context is deceitful and manipulative.
Duckhunter commenting on Star being grounded: "As for the
subject of the article I can really relate to it. It took me getting married
and having a family to give focus to my life." So, Duckhunter, is foucs the
same as being responsible and accountable?
@ Cougars1Sagarin is by far the most credible source when it comes
to ranking schedules. There is a reason his computers are used in the BCS
rankings and by the NCAA selection committee. I fully accept
Utah's end of season ranking. Utah did not execute on the field and missed
a bowl. I think 61 sounds about right. Also I realize that BYU played more
ranked teams. What you are ignoring is that BYU played four teams that finished
ranked well above 150 (out of 120 FBS teams). That is horrible. It's like
having a whole month off in the middle of the season to get players healthy and
prepare for the more talented teams on the schedule. Utah's week in, week
out grind was much tougher than BYU's, and I honestly don't understand
how that can be disputed.One last point that I want to make is that
rankings don't necessarily determine which team is better, but rather which
team had the better season. Those two things are often related, but they are
not the same thing.
AZUTE,Here is the reason I ask for your "handful of
sources".Upon close review of Sagarin's rankings we find
out that Utah has a rating of 72.91 and BYU has a rating of 69.48. To say that
Utah's sos "ranking" is 41 compared to BYU's 63 doesn't
do anything to explain how close the 2 schedules really are in strength. There
is a difference of 3.43 in the rating. That's pretty close to the
difference between the number 1 sos rank and the number 4 sos rank. Which brings us to the whole point of bringing up another sos ranking. There
is not much difference in the strength of Utah's 2012 sos and BYU's
2012 sos. This in no way should take away from the fact that Utah
was better than BYU by the simple fact that they won the game in 2012 between
the 2 teams. As I said earlier, I hope Utah represents better in the PAC in
2013. Good luck to your Utes. No disrespect intended.
AZUTE,"Just browsed a handful of other sources ranking 2012 SOS
and each and every one ranks UTAH's as having been stronger,
hands-down."Feel free to list the handful. It's very hard
to respond to your response when I don't know what you are referring to. I
believe you, I just need to know in order to respond.
"And, BYU played FOUR teams with winning records - Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4),
@Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1). Utah only played THREE - Texas A&M(7-5),
@New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5)."Actually, PITT 2004 finished
8-4, which makes it FOUR teams UTAH beat finishing the season w/a winning
record.Michigan 1984 finished their season at .500, by comparison,
yet byu struggled mightily to beat Michigan, not unlike their epic struggle
against PITT 1984, which finished the season at 3-7-1, bowl-less and unranked,
finishing the season unranked not unlike, literally, every other opponent byu
1984 faced.Again, 3rd weakest SOS. Some things never change, huh?
Mythical/Arbitrary. Were PITT not so utterly overrated, pre-season, byu
doesn't jump from unranked to just outside the Top-10, following Week 1.2 weeks after byu barely beat PITT, 20-14, OU hit town and administered
an epic whooping on PITT on the same, exact field, 42-10.
Actually, since there were only 20-teams ranked in 1984, AF finished the season
unranked....byu didn't play UCLA in 1984."btw, excluding
BYU's final regular season opponent, Utah State(1-10), which did absolutely
nothing to improve BYU's ranking, the overall record for BYU's 1984
regular season opponents was better than Utah's 2004 regular season
opponents."61-85-3, placing their SOS ranked 96th out of 98
total teams ranked."Exclude"? Say what?UTAH
2004 destroyed virtually every opponent faced, whereas byu 1984 struggled to
beat their bottom-feeder opponents playing against the nation's 3rd weakest
SOS."And, BYU played FOUR teams with winning records -
Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4), @Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1). Utah only played
THREE - Texas A&M(7-5), @New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5)."Huh? Your point? Relevance? Clearly Apples-to-Oranges and 100% irrelevant.
See above regarding UTAH's 2004 results vs byu's 1984 results.Why you've even mentioned UTAH 2004, in the first place, is 100%
mystifying? Huh?If you must, why not UTAH 2008, instead? Fact is,
neither UTAH team was mythically/erroneously/arbitrarily awarded anything. Both
were significantly superior to byu 1984.
AZUTE1If team A plays #60 and #61, and team B plays #1 and #120,
which team has the better chance of finishing 2-0?BYU played FIVE
Top 25 teams in 2012, and finished 8-5; Utah only played TWO Top 25 teams and
finished 5-7.There-in lies your answer why BYU finished #26 in
Sagarin and Utah only finished #61.
AZUTE1"BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another
way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent."Since there
was only a Top 20 in 1984, Air Force wasn't "ranked", but the
Falcons did finish #24 in the final AP poll, higher than Utah's only ranked
opponent in 2004, #25 Pittsburgh.And, BYU finished 1984 on a 24-game
winning streak, which also included road wins over #13/#15 Air Force, and
#17/#13 UCLA in 1983, and back-to-back Top 7 finishes.More
importantly, BYU earned the respect of a consensus all five major National
Champion selecting organizations.btw, excluding BYU's final
regular season opponent, Utah State(1-10), which did absolutely nothing to
improve BYU's ranking, the overall record for BYU's 1984 regular
season opponents was better than Utah's 2004 regular season opponents.BYU 54-69-3Utah 53-72And, BYU played FOUR teams with
winning records - Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4), @Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1).
Utah only played THREE - Texas A&M(7-5), @New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5).
ikute"Somebody help me. I don't understand..."
!!!"Let me help you.Your obsession about me and
blindness to the hatred discussed in alternate's post kind of go hand in
hand.I 'liked' the post. Hope that helps.
Just browsed a handful of other sources ranking 2012 SOS and each and every one
ranks UTAH's as having been stronger, hands-down.@ c1--Talk
about Cherry-Picking....You have the rest of us clearly beat in this department.
@ bluto--Which accomplishments do you speak of? Mythical era deeds
three decades ago, or the 6-5 bowl game record during this current BCS Era, zero
undefeated seasons, zero BCS Bowl Games/Victories, zero Top-4/-2 finishes,
annually playing against a cupcake SOS, rarely ever beating a good team and
having one player actually drafted in the past three years? Or setting new
records for the largest 2-Star recruiting haul in history? How about being
straight owned by your rival, annually?Do this, list the number of
players from both schools, respectively, which actually make NFL rosters and
earn serious NFL playing time? Furthermore, how many active players on NFL
@no perspective"That's it...there are three teams in the
elite Pac-12 conference against whom the Utes have not yet prevailed at least
one time."False. They haven't beaten 5 of the teams in the
pac12 since joining the conference. I'm sure you wanted us to forget that
utah didn't even play the 2 best teams in the pac12 the 1st 2 years. In
otherwords utah has only beaten 6 teams in the pac12, has split with 5 of those,
has not even played the two best teams, and has only beaten one of the teams
twice.Your spin was a giant fail.
2fer,"What is College Football Schedules? According to Sagarin
(a credible source):"Just because Sagarin is the only one you
know of doesn't mean that it is the ONLY "credible source"College Football Team SOS is in reality just as credible as Sagarin. But if
you want to use Sagarin, then you have to accept their end of season rankings
which are based several criteria including their sos rankings. BYU-26Utah-61You can cherry pick the schedule all you want,
but the reality is that BYU played more teams that were ranked at the end of the
season than Utah. What is really funny is that if you take the BYU game of of
Utah's schedule their ranking and sos decreases. It was your best win of
the season. If BYU wins the game, it's not their best win of the season.College Football Scedules SOS:BYU-48Utah-82
@ Cougars1What is College Football Schedules? According to Sagarin
(a credible source):Utah's SOS 41, BYU's 63. Utah does play WSU and CU, but those two games are only 16 percent of the
schedule. Unlike BYU who played Hawaii, Idaho, NMSU, Weber State, and
Washington State; 41 percent of the schedule. See the difference?
@ rlsintx,"Here's hoping the fans from all the Utah schools
are united in pulling for everyone's players who make it to the next level,
regardless where they did college. Congrats to them all, and Best Wishes in
fulfilling your dreams - we loved watching you play." I'm
with you all the way on that. I'm sick and tired of the vicious name
calling and the hate that is falsely described as good natured or harmless fun.
Spare me please! I've read a lot of the venomous posts and and
there's nothing good natured or fun about them. I guess I just need to
take the good with the bad and live with it. It's so sad because it
doesn't have to be.Go Cougars! And good luck to the Utes too
and all the other Utah schools! You made us all proud.
@AZuteFunny how you convieeeeeenently left out Free Agents.Since Bronco came to BYU....Utah has had 28 players sign Pro
contracts...BYU has had 25.....Rutgers just had 7 players
drafted..That equaled the number of draft choices for Michigan, Nebraska
and Ohio State...Combined!Rutgers will never be in their class.And Utah will never attain BYU's accomplishments.
Here's hoping the fans from all the Utah schools are united in pulling for
everyone's players who make it to the next level, regardless where they did
college. Congrats to them all, and Best Wishes in fulfilling your dreams - we
loved watching you play :)
Somebody help me. I don't understand the post by @alternate
that's getting all the "Likes".I don't see the bullying
part of it.As for the name calling, it happens on both sides of the aisle
in a good natured sports fan kind of way. From my perspective more so on the
"tds" side. i.e. sammyg.I'm being serious. An honest
explanation will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
AZUTE1:Exclude the 2005 draft and we have:Whittingham 19Mendenhall 7
Cont'd--So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was
greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20
and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie.
Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose
Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference
champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team,
Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one
wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right. Of
course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team
that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in
1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had
never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have
been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and
Brigham YoungTexas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been
tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none
of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at:
they finished #1. Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those
other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The
only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma
came very close in 1956). BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3,
placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools. And yet
their performance was as weak as their schedule. They won five
games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to
a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl
opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion." How bad was
Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15
against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in
the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.
Con't--byu--20104114Dennis PittaTEBaltimore20094127Austin CollieWRIndianapolis20097215Fui VakapunaRBCincinnati20084123Bryan KehlOLBNew York2007240John BeckQBMiami20067218Todd
WatkinsWRArizona20054125Brady PoppingaLBGreen Bay20055172Scott
This year's draft [UTAH 2 and byu 1]--Since 2005-- UTAH--
2012395Tony BergstromGOakland20115139Brandon BurtonDBMinnesota20116179Caleb SchlauderaffGGreen Bay2010240Koa MisiOLBMiami Dolphins 2010245Zane BeadlesGDenver20105148Robert JohnsonDBTennessee20105156David ReedWRBaltimore20105166Stevenson SylvesterLBPittsburgh20107223R.J. StanfordCBCarolina2009257Paul KrugerDEBaltimore2009261Sean SmithDBMiami20096188Brice McCainDBHouston20097252Freddie BrownWRCincinnati2007237Eric WeddleSAFSan Diego20074108Paul SoliaiDTMiami20067245Spencer TooneLBTennessee20067246Quinton GantherRBTennessee200511Alex SmithQBSan Francisco2005388Sione PouhaDTNew York20056204Chris KemoeatuGPittsburgh20057225Paris WarrenWRTampa Bay20057233Jonathan FaneneDECincinnati
StGtoSLC,Way to be the only one to get my point. I should have known
you would be the one to catch that.Perspective,Your
right.ND didn't belong in the NC, but neither did any team on Utah's
schedule. BYU has beaten one of the worst teams in the PAC. In fact since Utah
has joined the PAC, BYU has beaten WSU and Oregon State but that wasn't my
point. Once again you have proven that BYU is on your mind more that any other
PAC opponent that Utah plays. THAT was my point. Beat a school with a winning
record in your own conference.I may sound like I hate Utah, but I
pull for them every year. I want them to prove that the top "mid-major teams
can play with the big boys. I hope this is the year that they show some
adjustments have been made. Good luck Utes.
Gentlemen, we struck a nerve with Cougars1. Touchy subject for him. We all saw the schedule byu used to get to a bowl game last year and no, ND
did not belong in the NC game but they made it and embarrassed themselves. So, Cougs1 one, when byu finally steps up and beats one of the worst
teams in the elite Pac-12 you can talk. Until then...btw,
Congratulations to Joe Kruger on a richly deserved opportunity in the NFL.
So your excuse for losing to Utah is that Utah gets up for the game?And
that proofs(worf) that byu is better than Utah?
TheSportsAuthority, UoU 1991: Beating teams like Colorado every time?
They've only played twice. You failed to note in your post that Utah beat
Washington St both times they played. does that not meet the criteria
you've put forward? All other teams Utah has played in the Pac-12
conference are split except for (USC, Washington, Arizona St). That's
it...there are three teams in the elite Pac-12 conference against whom the Utes
have not yet prevailed at least one time. Are you aware that
TCU's win/loss ratio and national ranking fell markedly with their step up
to the Big12? "Utes have always been capable of losing to
ANYBODY." You probably haven't noticed but every team in the Pac-12 is
capable of losing to any team in the Pac-12. Take a look at who beat Stanford
last year and the scare they received from Washington St at home. Membership in
the Pac-12 is is one wild and fantastic ride. Since participating in an elite
conference is an experience byu will not have, you will just have to take our
word for it.
Cougars1, wow, you know who else doesn't play any WAC teams in 2013?
ekute,That's some kind of double standard you have going there.
"Give us a couple of years", yet you don't even hesitate in your
criticism of BYU's schedule when Holmoe said from the beginning that it
would take a few years to get the schedule where they want it. He was right.
Take a look at 2013. Not a single WAC team.
This pathetic excuse of playing a tough schedule is getting old. Step up and
beat a PAC school with a winning record. It's pathetic. The only team Utah
plays with any kind of passion is BYU. The fans, players and coaches show more
emotion in that game than any other and yet they use the "tough
schedule" excuse as some cop-out to excuse their pathetic record in the PAC.
U haven't even had to play the 2 best teams in the PAC for the last 2
years. And please spare us the "week in week out" babble. You play
Washington State and Colorado. As for BYU's schedule, according to College
Football Schedules, BYU's schedule for 2012 was ranked stronger than
Utah's. For crying out loud, BYU played a team that played in the NC. On
@UoU 1991Give us a couple of years.That was a big step up from
MWC to the Pac12. While the tds took a step down to a Wac-ish schedule,
maintained a winning regular season record and qualified for lower tier
bowls.Yet still lose to our Mighty Utes every year.
@MyPerspectiveSpot on. And they boast about their records and stats
vs non-competion and qualifying for lower tier bowls. Yet consistently lose
their biggest game of the year against the so called "bottom dweller".
MyPerspectiveUntil Utah starts beating teams like Colorado EVERY
time, using the better schedule argument for losing seasons and no bowls is
nothing more than a cop out. All that you're doing by using that argument
is proving the naysayers correct who said Utah wasn't good enough to
compete in the PAC 12.
MyPerspective"Which speaks volumes about the level of
competition the Utes face week in and week out..."lol at the
spinThe Utes lost to Utah State last season, a team BYU beat, and
the Utes have lost to 10-loss Colorado, 10-loss UNLV, and every bottom dweller
in the MWC in recent years and haven't beaten a PAC 10.2 team with a
winning record.Increased "strength" of competition
isn't your problem. The truth is, except for a couple of great seasons 2004
and 2008, the Utes have always been capable of losing to ANYBODY.
SportsFan: "And with all of those "NFL-caliber" players, the Utes
still weren't good enough to qualify for a bowl?"Which
speaks volumes about the level of competition the Utes face week in and week
out...exactly what we have been trying to tell you people for the last two
years. Finally, the light comes on in the mind of a byu fan.
Roger Jolley commented in response to Chris B."@Chris BGood job, I for one get a kick out of your comments. The "mid-major"
fans get all hysterical over every word you say. I for one get the joke. Keep up
the good work, some people just can't laugh about the rivalry. And even if
you're a faux-Ute fan, thanks for the chuckles."The problem
here is that this is no joking. There appears to be a very deep hatred of BYU
here that ends up in childish name calling, and in some cases very hateful
comments. Chris B does not joke. I believe he is very sincere with his posts.
This is hate stuff.Nothing hysterical in a response to hate and name
calling. You use of "mid major" is not a joke. I read is as attempt to
use a basketball term to slur and degrade other programs.Sorry for
the preaching but name calling leads to bullying in school. Check out 42 and
the boy in the stands who follows his father in yelling hate at Jackie
Robinson.Some poeple just don't grow up.
StGtoSLCAnd with all of those "NFL-caliber" players, the
Utes still weren't good enough to qualify for a bowl?Pathetic!
If he would have played just 6 games for coach bronco he would have been a #1
top 5 pick.
Duckhunter, Utah's UDFA:Sean Sellwood: FalconsTevita Stevens:
RedskinsRyan Lacy: SaintsReggie Dunn: SteelersReggie Topps:
CardinalsSam Brenner: DolphinsMoe Lee: RavensDavid Rolf:
ChargersDave Kruger: BrownsThat means you talk before you know
anything again. Can you explain this to us?
Ducky it's an embarrassment that you think signing 4 players from your team
is good. Before you post such drivoul you should do some research. 4 players is
on par with div 2 schools. Utah had 9 players picked up yesterday.
UtesBy5Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but Utah's
basketball "tradition" is DEAD!Since Majerus's remnants
left in 2005, the Utes are 116-137 (46%), with 6 losing seasons, and an
embarrassing loss in their only NCAA tournament game.The Utes have
never had a football tradition; it took the Utes over a hundred years of playing
football just to crack the AP Top 25 for the very first time. Utah is nothing
more than a fading two-hit wonder flash-in-the-pan.
No doubt, the only way to explain it is that "byu is twice as good as
@christinaAccording to reports BYU has 5 players that were either
drafted or signed free agent contracts plus 1 more that has an invitation to
attend camp. utah had onyl 3 players drafted or that signed as free agents. That
means BYU had twice as many players as utah did that got NFL teams to take them
in some form this year.Can you explain this discrepancy to us?
"I salute the Kruger boys and all the others from Utah schools who were
drafted and congratulates them on their successes. May they all be wildly
successful in their respective careers!"I'm with you on
that Bigsamoan.But I think the back and forth is just part of the
fun of being a sports fan.Sometimes we get a little to "frantic and
emotional".That's when we tilt our heads back and
@utesby5If you are truly outraged then why do you continue to do the
exact same thing?
@ Chris B, Roger Jolly, and Canadian,When are you guys going to grow
up and be mature adults? Give us all a break, please!!! That "My dad is
better than your dad" kind of stuff is childish coming from grownups who
should know better. Why can't you just congratulate each other on their
achievements without resorting to name calling and touting that "I'm
better than you" crap? I salute the Kruger boys and all the others from
Utah schools who were drafted and congratulates them on their successes. May
they all be wildly successful in their respective careers!
@ redfeatherWhy don't you compare the percentage of 2 stars
drafted to the percentage of 5 star players who were drafted... I think that
might change your argument a little bit.@ Bluto"Ziggy and BYU has had more National Publcity in the last 2 months than
Utah has had in the last 5 years.....Combined!Look it up."All I have to say about this is... L-O-L!
@ekutedang you caught me, now I need to change my username
@Bluto: "Ute fans, still desperately trying to escape BYU's shadow,
while riding others Coat-Tails. Let's see if your Utes can post a winning
season in football or basketball in the next 5 years, OK?BYU has
Tradition, Legacy, Brand, Exposure and Hardware, which Utah will never
replicate."Sorry BYU was left behind, it wasn't Utah's
fault that the PAC12 didn't select them over Colorado. I wish both schools
had been invited to keep the rivalry going.To respond to your
emotional post, I'd like to point out the following:1- Since
you brought up basketball, Utah has a stronger tradition, legacy, brand,
exposure and hardware. National Championship, four Final Fours, rated 20th best
program over the last 50 years by ESPN (BYU was #36), 35 NCAA Tournament wins
(BYU has 15)2- This century Utah has had the #1 pick in the NBA
draft as well as the NFL draft3- Utah football has two undefeated
seasons and two top-5 final rankings this century. BYU had one undefeated
season and two top-5 rankings last century and none this century4-
BYU's glory years were from the 1970s through the 1990s5- Utah
belongs to the PAC12Shadow?
Congratulations Joe! The Eagles selected a very talented DE that should be in
the league for a long time.Hopefully Dave can stick with the Browns
and we will have three Krugers in the NFL!Reading the posts from
Bluto, redfeather and Chris B take away from this article. The continued hatred
between the minority of the Utah and BYU fans has become ridiculous. @redfeather: are you aware of the ratio of 5-star vs 2-star athletes? Of
course there are more three and two star athletes drafted! FYI, Star was not
overrated and he wasn't a five star athlete.@Bluto: "Ziggy
and BYU has had more National Publcity in the last 2 months than Utah has had in
the last 5 years.....Combined! Look it up."Seriously? There were
some great stories about Ziggy over the past two months. Ziggy is a stud and I
hope he does well in the NFL. During the past two months we have also heard
many stories about Star and his heart condition. Star had been ranked as a top
five draft prospect so he has been a national topic. Last five years: move to
PAC12, undefeated season with #2 ranking, Alex....
Star's over rated.In this year’s draft, more than twice
as many 2-stars (47) were drafted than 5-stars (19). So much for stars being an
indicator of college football success.I see that christy is still
trying to salve the bitter disappointment of watching her team spend the
holidays at home on the couch.
@Chris B.Rutgers just had 7 players drafted. That's equal
to Ohio State, Nebraska and Michigan, COMBINED!Nobody would ever
elevate Rutgers over those teams in terms of Legacy and Brand and likewise,
nobody will ever elevate Utah football above BYU's Generational Tradition
and Legacy.These things are cyclical and Utah is just now beginning
to settle in to their new home on Wannabee Lane.Even with all of
your "False Bravado" Chrissy, it is still BYU and Ziggy, who were the
story of the NFL draft and who lived and are living in the National
limelight.Utah Who?Ziggy and BYU has had more National
Publcity in the last 2 months than Utah has had in the last 5
years.....Combined!Look it up.Ute fans, still desperately
trying to escape BYU's shadow, while riding others Coat-Tails.Let's see if your Utes can post a winning season in football or
basketball in the next 5 years, OK?BYU has Tradition, Legacy, Brand,
Exposure and Hardware, which Utah will never replicate.
"I'd rather have U lose than I win." ?Canadian cougar
?Is that you Max ?
Re Canadian CougarI am a BYU fan, and even I don't understand
your comment. Trying to poke fun of a team that had more draft picks than us,
and trying to relate it to a bowl game? Dumb. We lose when it comes to NFL
picks.I live by and know Joe. nice job big man, hope it works out.
Congrats.We can say all we want about BYU vs Utah people. And there
are no points for lip service. I don't care who plays what opponent
tougher, or who is in a tougher league. You people act like there is no head to
head game. Plain and simple, it is settled onthe field. Utah beat us last year
so they were better. Duh. This year I take my Cougs at home. But
until they play,,everyone put a sock in it!
@ChrisBA tie with little brother USU is a loss in my opinion.
I'd rather have U lose than I win.BTW, congrats to Joe,
I've known him for a few years and no one deserves this opportunity more
Yet another Ute advances to the League. Congrats Joe!
Canadian,You are right. We tied with Utah state. And we
both had more than byU!Again. Lol.
Congrats to Joe Kruger. Shall we compare bowl records Canadian Cougar? Go
Good for Joe, he'll be a great addition to Philly. He actually might be a
steal, we'll see. @Chris BGood job, I for one get a
kick out of your comments. The "mid-major" fans get all hysterical over
every word you say. I for one get the joke. Keep up the good work, some people
just can't laugh about the rivalry. And even if you're a faux-Ute fan,
thanks for the chuckles. @Canadiancouger624Thanks for
pointing that out, your insecurity is showing. So it seems both UTAH and Utah
State put out more NFL talent than the legacy, national brand wannabe Notre Dame
school. That's funny. Play in a real conference just like UTAH and TCU.
Then we'll see how your team does. Oh, that's right, nobody wants your
team except for the Mountain West Conference. Sad.
@Chris BNo one knows except for you I'm sure. But really who
cares if you can't make a bowl game. And BTW you didn't have the most
this year. You tied with USU.
Does anyone know how many times Utah has had the most nfl draft picks of all
utah schools in recent years, say in the last 10 years?10?9
maybe?Our dominance continues on the field and in the draftProud of you joe!You deserve this. Go PAC 12! Go utes!