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Comments about ‘Utes football: Eagles pick Utah's Joe Kruger in 7th round of NFL draft’

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Published: Saturday, April 27 2013 5:20 p.m. MDT

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AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Brigham Young

Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1.

Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.

And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule.

They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion." How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Cont'd--

So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

AZUTE1:
Exclude the 2005 draft and we have:

Whittingham 19
Mendenhall 7

ekute
Layton, UT

Somebody help me.
I don't understand the post by @alternate that's getting all the "Likes".
I don't see the bullying part of it.
As for the name calling, it happens on both sides of the aisle in a good natured sports fan kind of way. From my perspective more so on the "tds" side. i.e. sammyg.
I'm being serious. An honest explanation will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

rlsintx
Plano, TX

Here's hoping the fans from all the Utah schools are united in pulling for everyone's players who make it to the next level, regardless where they did college. Congrats to them all, and Best Wishes in fulfilling your dreams - we loved watching you play :)

Bluto
Sandy, UT

@AZute

Funny how you convieeeeeenently left out Free Agents.

Since Bronco came to BYU....

Utah has had 28 players sign Pro contracts...
BYU has had 25.....

Rutgers just had 7 players drafted..
That equaled the number of draft choices for Michigan, Nebraska and Ohio State...Combined!

Rutgers will never be in their class.
And Utah will never attain BYU's accomplishments.

thebigsamoan
Richmond, VA

@ rlsintx,

"Here's hoping the fans from all the Utah schools are united in pulling for everyone's players who make it to the next level, regardless where they did college. Congrats to them all, and Best Wishes in fulfilling your dreams - we loved watching you play."

I'm with you all the way on that. I'm sick and tired of the vicious name calling and the hate that is falsely described as good natured or harmless fun. Spare me please! I've read a lot of the venomous posts and and there's nothing good natured or fun about them. I guess I just need to take the good with the bad and live with it. It's so sad because it doesn't have to be.

Go Cougars! And good luck to the Utes too and all the other Utah schools! You made us all proud.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Cougars1

What is College Football Schedules? According to Sagarin (a credible source):

Utah's SOS 41, BYU's 63.

Utah does play WSU and CU, but those two games are only 16 percent of the schedule. Unlike BYU who played Hawaii, Idaho, NMSU, Weber State, and Washington State; 41 percent of the schedule. See the difference?

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

2fer,

"What is College Football Schedules? According to Sagarin (a credible source):"

Just because Sagarin is the only one you know of doesn't mean that it is the ONLY "credible source"

College Football Team SOS is in reality just as credible as Sagarin. But if you want to use Sagarin, then you have to accept their end of season rankings which are based several criteria including their sos rankings.

BYU-26
Utah-61

You can cherry pick the schedule all you want, but the reality is that BYU played more teams that were ranked at the end of the season than Utah. What is really funny is that if you take the BYU game of of Utah's schedule their ranking and sos decreases. It was your best win of the season. If BYU wins the game, it's not their best win of the season.

College Football Scedules SOS:
BYU-48
Utah-82

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@no perspective

"That's it...there are three teams in the elite Pac-12 conference against whom the Utes have not yet prevailed at least one time."

False. They haven't beaten 5 of the teams in the pac12 since joining the conference. I'm sure you wanted us to forget that utah didn't even play the 2 best teams in the pac12 the 1st 2 years. In otherwords utah has only beaten 6 teams in the pac12, has split with 5 of those, has not even played the two best teams, and has only beaten one of the teams twice.

Your spin was a giant fail.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

@ bluto--

Which accomplishments do you speak of? Mythical era deeds three decades ago, or the 6-5 bowl game record during this current BCS Era, zero undefeated seasons, zero BCS Bowl Games/Victories, zero Top-4/-2 finishes, annually playing against a cupcake SOS, rarely ever beating a good team and having one player actually drafted in the past three years? Or setting new records for the largest 2-Star recruiting haul in history? How about being straight owned by your rival, annually?

Do this, list the number of players from both schools, respectively, which actually make NFL rosters and earn serious NFL playing time? Furthermore, how many active players on NFL rosters currently/school?

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Just browsed a handful of other sources ranking 2012 SOS and each and every one ranks UTAH's as having been stronger, hands-down.

@ c1--Talk about Cherry-Picking....You have the rest of us clearly beat in this department.

sammyg
Springville, UT

ikute

"Somebody help me. I don't understand..." !!!"

Let me help you.

Your obsession about me and blindness to the hatred discussed in alternate's post kind of go hand in hand.

I 'liked' the post.

Hope that helps.

TroyTown
Anaheim, CA

AZUTE1

"BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent."

Since there was only a Top 20 in 1984, Air Force wasn't "ranked", but the Falcons did finish #24 in the final AP poll, higher than Utah's only ranked opponent in 2004, #25 Pittsburgh.

And, BYU finished 1984 on a 24-game winning streak, which also included road wins over #13/#15 Air Force, and #17/#13 UCLA in 1983, and back-to-back Top 7 finishes.

More importantly, BYU earned the respect of a consensus all five major National Champion selecting organizations.

btw, excluding BYU's final regular season opponent, Utah State(1-10), which did absolutely nothing to improve BYU's ranking, the overall record for BYU's 1984 regular season opponents was better than Utah's 2004 regular season opponents.

BYU 54-69-3
Utah 53-72

And, BYU played FOUR teams with winning records - Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4), @Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1). Utah only played THREE - Texas A&M(7-5), @New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5).

TroyTown
Anaheim, CA

AZUTE1

If team A plays #60 and #61, and team B plays #1 and #120, which team has the better chance of finishing 2-0?

BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012, and finished 8-5; Utah only played TWO Top 25 teams and finished 5-7.

There-in lies your answer why BYU finished #26 in Sagarin and Utah only finished #61.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Actually, since there were only 20-teams ranked in 1984, AF finished the season unranked....byu didn't play UCLA in 1984.

"btw, excluding BYU's final regular season opponent, Utah State(1-10), which did absolutely nothing to improve BYU's ranking, the overall record for BYU's 1984 regular season opponents was better than Utah's 2004 regular season opponents."

61-85-3, placing their SOS ranked 96th out of 98 total teams ranked.

"Exclude"? Say what?

UTAH 2004 destroyed virtually every opponent faced, whereas byu 1984 struggled to beat their bottom-feeder opponents playing against the nation's 3rd weakest SOS.

"And, BYU played FOUR teams with winning records - Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4), @Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1). Utah only played THREE - Texas A&M(7-5), @New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5)."

Huh? Your point? Relevance? Clearly Apples-to-Oranges and 100% irrelevant. See above regarding UTAH's 2004 results vs byu's 1984 results.

Why you've even mentioned UTAH 2004, in the first place, is 100% mystifying? Huh?

If you must, why not UTAH 2008, instead? Fact is, neither UTAH team was mythically/erroneously/arbitrarily awarded anything. Both were significantly superior to byu 1984.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

"And, BYU played FOUR teams with winning records - Tulsa(6-5), @Hawaii(7-4), @Air Force(8-4) and @Utah(6-5-1). Utah only played THREE - Texas A&M(7-5), @New Mexico(7-5) and @Wyoming(7-5)."

Actually, PITT 2004 finished 8-4, which makes it FOUR teams UTAH beat finishing the season w/a winning record.

Michigan 1984 finished their season at .500, by comparison, yet byu struggled mightily to beat Michigan, not unlike their epic struggle against PITT 1984, which finished the season at 3-7-1, bowl-less and unranked, finishing the season unranked not unlike, literally, every other opponent byu 1984 faced.

Again, 3rd weakest SOS. Some things never change, huh? Mythical/Arbitrary. Were PITT not so utterly overrated, pre-season, byu doesn't jump from unranked to just outside the Top-10, following Week 1.

2 weeks after byu barely beat PITT, 20-14, OU hit town and administered an epic whooping on PITT on the same, exact field, 42-10.

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

AZUTE,

"Just browsed a handful of other sources ranking 2012 SOS and each and every one ranks UTAH's as having been stronger, hands-down."

Feel free to list the handful. It's very hard to respond to your response when I don't know what you are referring to. I believe you, I just need to know in order to respond.

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

AZUTE,

Here is the reason I ask for your "handful of sources".

Upon close review of Sagarin's rankings we find out that Utah has a rating of 72.91 and BYU has a rating of 69.48. To say that Utah's sos "ranking" is 41 compared to BYU's 63 doesn't do anything to explain how close the 2 schedules really are in strength. There is a difference of 3.43 in the rating. That's pretty close to the difference between the number 1 sos rank and the number 4 sos rank.

Which brings us to the whole point of bringing up another sos ranking. There is not much difference in the strength of Utah's 2012 sos and BYU's 2012 sos.

This in no way should take away from the fact that Utah was better than BYU by the simple fact that they won the game in 2012 between the 2 teams. As I said earlier, I hope Utah represents better in the PAC in 2013. Good luck to your Utes. No disrespect intended.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Cougars1

Sagarin is by far the most credible source when it comes to ranking schedules. There is a reason his computers are used in the BCS rankings and by the NCAA selection committee.

I fully accept Utah's end of season ranking. Utah did not execute on the field and missed a bowl. I think 61 sounds about right. Also I realize that BYU played more ranked teams. What you are ignoring is that BYU played four teams that finished ranked well above 150 (out of 120 FBS teams). That is horrible. It's like having a whole month off in the middle of the season to get players healthy and prepare for the more talented teams on the schedule. Utah's week in, week out grind was much tougher than BYU's, and I honestly don't understand how that can be disputed.

One last point that I want to make is that rankings don't necessarily determine which team is better, but rather which team had the better season. Those two things are often related, but they are not the same thing.

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