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Comments about ‘LDS Church satisfied with Scouting membership compromise’

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Published: Thursday, April 25 2013 2:20 p.m. MDT

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Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

Fair compromise... and it is good for kids. Now let's all hush up and go camping!

Arizona1
Tucson, AZ

Well done . . . and well said "Oatmeal". Now if the gay agenda will get out of the way and let the Scouts focus on the youth, maybe there's hope for a country that has been divided on a plethora of social and economic issues over the last decade or so.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Salt Lake City, UT

"Welcoming compromise" is a headline that the popular 'trending' crowd will misunderstand. It would have been better if worded differently.

The LDS Church stated 2 simple things:

1) 'We've been staying out of it, not pushing the BSA in any direction.'
2) 'We recognize and are grateful the BSA has been sensitive (as these issues require sensitivity).'

An additional point was made which I will take some liberty in summarizing. It was clearly made, but I felt the point could have been more clear. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I got from it:

We feel the BSA's proposal is positive as it...

1) Adds a layer of fostering tolerance for the boys while...
2) Continuing to teach them moral values
3) Continuing to protect boys from scenarios that would increase the likelihood of predatory behavior.

The point is that it's about the boys and doing what's best for them, not for their scout leader. Fostering tolerance of diversity among the boys, while staying true to the values that scouting represents is the most mutually respectful and honorable answer the BSA could make. Scout leaders really have nothing to do with it.

Sentinel
Ogden, UT

@ "I know it. I live it. I love it":

Because someone's sexual orientation is gay does not make him a predator. I do not know how it began, equating homosexuality with predators. But, it is not true. I know people who are gay who have worked with youth for 30-40 years. Not once have they felt the desire to prey on them sexually. Please, let's get away from perpetuating falsehoods just because someone is gay. Homosexuality does NOT equate to predator.

Montana Mormon
Miles City, MT

@ Sentinel:

Much needed statement. Predatory behavior is not contingent upon a person's sexual orientation. There are way too many predators, period. And sadly, many predators are heterosexual. It's not fair to stereotype predatory tendencies on the basis of sexual preference.

This is a very sensitive issue, indeed.People can have and express their opinions without attacking people who have different opinions.

Jim Cobabe
Provo, UT

After reading the actual statement from the Church, I think the headline of this article misrepresent what was said, and is misleading. The Church statement suggests nothing about compromising moral standards. It says that the Church is satisfied that an effort has been made to propose solutions for difficult issues. And it states that the BSA is to be commended for the *positive* parts of their proposal. It says nothing about making any committment to future changes in policy or practice, either in the Church or toward the BSA. I will wait with patience to hear what the Church actually plans to do in the future.

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Re: Jim

Is it "misrepresentative" because the Church didn't agree with your opinion on the non-issue?

You can wait till the cows come home, but it seems pretty clear how the Church feels about this non-issue.

DanO
Mission Viejo, CA

Jim Cobabe, the current policy of the Church is that one may identify as gay and be active in the church so long as they don't act upon it. Presumably, this would extend to Scouting as well since Scouts are expected to remain celibate. I've believed all along that the Church would accept the change in Scouting policy because the proposals closely aligns with the Church's own policy.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm happy to know the headline changed. I think it is more clear this way.

Dear Sentinel,

I wasn't saying or implying that abuse is exclusive to those attracted to the same gender. We're all aware of the varying problems we deal with in the world. However, you have a life time of experience I don't share and vice versa. I know of plenty of cases where same gender situations have lead to abuse. But even that isn't why I said what I did.

I do not believe it's appropriate to have a gay scout leader go camping with 15 year old boys.
I do not believe it's appropriate to have a 20 year old girl go camping with 15 year old boys.

"At risk scenario for predatory behavior" has no bias. One man may do the wrong thing as much as another. But a straight man is by far less likely to with another male.

This is so simple. Any amount of confusing this issue only puts youth at risk as more people will not understand. Preventing sexual abuse matters more than pleasing a crowd of adults, even well-intended.

junkgeek
Agua Dulce, TX

The BSA didn't do this without knowing ahead of time what its biggest constituents would and would not approve.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

For gays, the stigma still remains. However, this allows the scouting program to continue as before, since they don't have to concern themselves with anyone but the leaders. Now, the boys can be boys, the men can be men, and the basic virtues of scouting can be perpetuated. 'Morally straight' doesn't have to be defined because some adults aren't sure what it means. Take the high road, Scouts, and let the rest go as they please! Way to go!

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Our leaders know what they're doing. Closely examine the carefully-worded statement. It contains no guarantee of continued Church partnering, or of acceptance of anything other than a proposal that requires literally no change in the way we conduct Scouting.

As the National Council meets next month, LGBT activists will demand more changes. They'll probably find an ally or two. They may even win.

If so, we've preserved the running room necessary to withdraw honorably from the partnership. Even if they lose, however, it's just kicking the can down the road a few days, weeks, months. Maybe even a couple years.

Because activists aren't satisfied. And won't stop. They'll certainly announce, if they haven't already, that this is a "first step," and "much remains to be done." They'll continue to pressure the National Council. It'll continue to wimp out. At a point in the not-too-distant future, it'll crack.

But, in the meantime, we'll have had additional time to make an orderly transition to whatever will succeed Scouting.

Inspired leadership! But, still sad for Scouting.

MapleDon
Springville, UT

I'm not surprised by the Church's support, given the Church's efforts in recent years to become gay friendly. I have no doubt the Church was involved in the wording of the BSA's proposed policy change.

I'm still disappointed that the Church has found it fitting and appropriate to lower standards. We're not talking about young men who have gay inclinations (or a don't ask, don't tell policy). These are young men who know they're gay and are open about it. What's the difference between this and having young women camp with young men?

Prop 8 was a PR disaster for the Church and I don't think its leaders have the stomach for facing anymore criticism from the LGBT community and supporters/activists.

nephiter
Phoenix, AZ

THE FAMILY
A PROCLAMATION TO THE WORLD
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS;male and female;are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

TMR
Los Angeles, CA

To procuradorfiscal: I am not sure I follow your logic. If the Boy Scouts eventually allows gay leaders then why would the church "transition to whatever will succeed Scouting" when a gay priesthood holder can serve in a Bishopric or work in a LDS temple? You also suggest that the National Council will "wimp out" at some point by allowing gay leadership. Does this logic also apply to the church, which allows, as already noted, gay leadership in prominent church leadership positions? If so, then the church, whose leadership you cite as "inspired," has, again using your words, "wimped out." I support the church's position, but just remind you and others to think carefully before extrapolating your own prejudices into the thinking of church leadership.

Owen
Heber City, UT

Procurador... How can a policy that aligns scouting's policies with "inspired"church policies be,"sad for scouting"? The policy -- celibate gay members allowed -- is the same for both groups. Is it sad for the church? In fact an argument can be made the church's inspired policy is more liberal, since celibate gay members can hold leadership positions.

rightascension
Provo, UT

This development has less than meets the eye. For a start, Boy Scouts of America have always had boys in the troops who preferred other boys, so that is nothing new per se. Furthermore, at any given point only 3-5% of available men who could be scout leaders have or had same-gender attraction. So over the years, most of the emotional destruction and abuse done in scouting was done by heterosexual leaders.

germanygator
Apo, AE

This won't work. Homosexual behavior will be just as "naturally" acted upon as heterosexual behavior exhibits itself. This ruling basically says, you're allowed to participate if your gay, just don't be gay at the meetings. No way this doesn't cause issues down the road.

cougar76
Raleigh, NC

procuradorfiscal:
The transition is already complete. It is called "Duty to God."

eastcoastcoug
Danbury, CT

As much as I love the Scouting program (I'm an Eagle Scout), I have to ask why this program is so relevant to boys (and leaders) in the LDS church today? Why not fashion a program more like the YW: more focused on personal growth with a more spiritual and practical 21st century emphasis. I would gladly trade the fire building and knot-tying for something that better prepares boys for life: career, missions, marriage, family, service, etc. I think the YW have the right idea. Plus, scouting only really appeals to boys up to age 13 or 14 at the max.

Then there's the burden on BSA leaders who must give up their precious annual family vacation time to spend a Summer week and other weekends (dozens of them) on campouts. It just doesn't seem right and I think we could do much MUCH better. Let's design our own program...

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