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Messy lives make immigration debate a messy business

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  • Watch Dog Provo, UT
    April 27, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    Mark Alvarez said. "We shouldn't separate immigrants into good immigrants and bad immigrants ... but I know at some point, for practical reasons, we're going to have some kind of argument about that."

    Dear Mark, You seem to intentionally fail to separate legal immigrants and illegal ones in your statement. The good immigrants are the legal ones, the bad ones are the ones that have INTENTIONALLY broken our laws. The "good" ones, won't have these problems!!! The "bad" ones need shipped out of OUR country, where we are ALL expected to follow and obey the law, ASAP. This, my friend, IS the law.

    The above paragraph should resolve any arguments you might experience when discussing this issue. If you can keep the above in mind, you won't have nearly as many "arguments" as you otherwise might get when discussing the issue.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    @JWB

    The problem, is that some think that the FRUITS of freedom just "grow on trees," like money on a money tree, that these fruits merely are here for the stealing.

    It doesn't work that way.

    The problem with illegal aliens is that they are attracted to the fruit, yes, but don't think they should have to subscribe to the PRINCIPLES which make those fruits possible.

    One of those principles is respect for the rule of law.

    And Americans WILL do the job, if paid a FAIR wage.

    @Chester Brough

    Senator Lee... shows great piousness and arrogance... 12 million back to Mexico ... the heartache and related suffering... want to be free to seek our wonderful benefits as a country."

    This is what propagandists have been doing for a few years now: they have been trying to FALSELY "guilt" us into looking the other way at the willful illegality of illegal aliens.

    We didn't flout the law. THEY did. We don't belong on trial. THEY do. This is not a "test" of society. It is about a VIOLATION of society.

    Stop trying to shift the culpability for wrongdoing from the guilty to the innocent!

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 23, 2013 6:45 p.m.

    If you're not here legally, you don't need to be here at all. Illegals take so much from our own citizens. There are people living below the poverty level that can't get what the illegals get.

  • Mack2828 Ft Thomas, KY
    April 23, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    I am grateful for the courage Rep. Lee is showing on this issue.
    I believe the only way for this woman to eventually have peace is for her to make restitution for her crimes, gather up her family, go home and work to make her own country great.
    Perhaps in the future she may choose to immigrate to the USA and she can do it the honest way.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 23, 2013 2:40 p.m.

    @JWB:
    "These people come to our country because we have jobs that some of our citizens won't do as it is below their standard and welfare and unemployment pay more."

    Our citizens would be willing to do any job to pay the rent and put food on the table. The only problem is, they don't have to work. they get two years unemployment where they can sit back with TV clicker in hand sipping pina coladas.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 23, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    It is a LIE that deportation would forcibly "rip" this mother away from her children! She may take her children with her! When they are 18, they may choose to return to this country!

    So STOP THE LYING!

    "... we shouldn't be as inflexible as sometimes we've been..."

    Mercy cannot rob justice. It instead robs innocent individuals, and groups, of compassion. All it can really do is shift the penalty for wrongdoing from the guilty, to the innocent.

    That is UNJUST! That is EVIL!

    Teaching "Dream" children that breaking the law is the right way, and that it may pay off big with this bill -- as they obviously are being taught, by someone -- is, again, EVIL!

    "...who came to the country illegally and who now are trying to understand how their lives could be improved."

    Return to your home countries. Take your your minor children with you -- whether U.S. citizens or not. Take any children that you may have illegally trafficked into this country with you -- whether they are 8 years old, or 28 years old.

    Thus remain together as a family unit -- in your home country -- WITH HONOR, for a change!

    THAT is how you improve your life!

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 23, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    Why doesn't the DN do articles on American families separated by criminal activity? The state prison probably has thousands of stories.

  • Chester Brough Providence, Utah
    April 23, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    Senator Lee is wrong in his stance, and shows great piousness and arrogance; to vote no because any path for an illegal alien to seek citizenship is silly; lets send all 12 million back to Mexico and pay for the costs, the heartache and related suffering. Not even seasonable workers are given a chance to prove worthiness? I do not believe he has ever dealt with someone who just want a chance, want to be free to seek our wonderful benefits as a country.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 23, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    I had to laugh while reading this one. The immigrant proponents said that she doesn't have a criminal history. What that means is that she hadn't been caught until now.

    She broke multiple laws, and now cries because she was caught and is getting off easy by being sent back to Mexico.

    She entered the US illegally.

    Committed Identity theft by using a SS number that didn't belong to her.

    She broke employment laws by lying on employment applications.

    Now, after breaking multiple laws, she wants our pity?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 23, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    Thomas Sowell on immigration law: "Why are there immigration laws in the first place? For the benefit of the American people -- not for the benefit of people in other countries who want to come here."

  • johnnylingo62 Gray, TN
    April 23, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    So many sad stories... but the victim is not the alien, it's the person whose ID was stolen, the welfare rolls, the job-seeker who is already here legally, but can't get a job.
    I've been to Mexico, it's a big country with opportunity. I've lived in Taiwan for 10yrs - all with a valid VISA that I had to maintain and renew every two months or six months according to the law. Laws provide safety to everyone. Just follow the law and process, don't break the law, help others keep the law- and most "sad stories" will be avoided. Shortcuts and lawlessness invite disappointment and chaos.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    April 23, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    This article is based on the idea that the United States is obligated to take in the poor and underprivileged of the world, especially Mexico and South America. Since Americans have a higher standard of living, guilt is used to manipulate the public, just as the Deseret News is doing in this article.

    Being deported is not a death sentence or even a prison sentence, especially if deported to Mexico. The standard of living is lower there and there are fewer welfare benefits, but a 130 million Mexicans get by. It is a deportable offense for legal immigrants in Utah to use taxpayer welfare, and Medicade benefits, but it isn't for illegal aliens that commit ID fraud? Using public guilt to gain an objective is a propaganda technique.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 23, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    Leave it to government to make something "complex" that needn't be.

    Just enforce the law.

    For a change.

    You never know - it might work!

  • raybies Layton, UT
    April 23, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    It wouldn't be too difficult to make the law more open for situations like this. Those that say otherwise are simply afraid of the immigation boogey-man, la chupacapra or some nonsense. We should not further criminalize the people who prove through strong family and work values they want to contribute to our society.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    April 23, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    These folks live at an emotional level, with no understanding or regard for the law no matter what country they live in. Everything is about them with no regard for anyone else, unless they are of the same nationality. They need to return home as a whole family to start a new life. Others have done it, so can they.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    April 23, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    JWB,
    You could also mention that in many countries those who enter without permission are either put in prison, killed, or repatriated back to their own country when caught.
    Or you could have mentioned that most of those who came here over the past 200 years did so according to the immigration laws that were in place at that time.
    And just maybe we need to reform our welfare and unemployment compensation as well as enforcing our existing laws on immigration and punishing the people who are employing those who have disobeyed our laws.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    April 23, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    If your article was meant to make your readers feel sorry for this lady, it was successful. I feel sorry for her because she apparently has not discovered what causes babies yet and she has had to work hard because it seems she has not been able to snag a husband to help with the costs of raising the kids.

    She could see no alternative but to steal another's identity so she could work in this country.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 23, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    What is so complex about: You broke the law. You knew what the law was. You knew what the penalties were. You disregarded all of those. Believe me these illegals know that if they wait long enough something like what is happening right now will happen. That is softness will prevail over the law and an amnesty will happen. They knew this when they came and have been patiently waiting. Greed very well may prevail. Greed by the illegals, greed by business, and above all greed by the politicians.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    April 23, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    In many countries, immigrants from other countries go to those other countries due to crime. They escape through the borders to get away from being killed by some police or army person in their own country. Others are refugees due to wars in the neighboring countries and people flee to get away from the end result in many cases.

    Most of the people that come to our country for the past 200 years come to a land of opportunity. There may be some that come to do evil but those a few and far between. We have produced movies for 70 years showing the world how great life is in our country. However, we also show them the ways to commit crimes through the violence, obscenity and vulgarity in our movies that we export around the world through the Internet and movie theaters. We say that they have the freedom to see those so we can feel gratified in taking their money.

    These people come to our country because we have jobs that some of our citizens won't do as it is below their standard and welfare and unemployment pay more.

    Politics make this process harder to deal with today.

  • IMAPatriot2 PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    April 23, 2013 7:44 a.m.

    If I remember correctly, it is the POTUS who is responsible to protect the borders. We haven't had a POTUS do that for decades. They are too busy experimenting with social and economic engineering.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    April 23, 2013 6:34 a.m.

    It is absurd that we are even talking about this.
    The very reason we enacted immigration laws was to establish a definition of when the law has been broken.
    Clearly it is when someone enters without inspection lacking authorization to be here or when they overstay their visa.
    It is wrong to now parse that law on a wholesale basis to allow those who have already broken the law to remain.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    April 23, 2013 6:30 a.m.

    Much is missing from this story.
    1. Where is the father(s) of these 5 children who are 6 and under?.
    2. What was preventing her from having the children and their father go with her so the family would not be split? Even Grandma could have gone with them.
    3. Were there any other laws that she broke that are not being mentioned or were dropped with the plea bargain?
    Making this all about the seperation of the family is designed to tug at our hearts and make the person who broke the law appear to be the victim. How many stories do you remember where they said the bank robber should be let go because he was just trying to take care of his children?