Comments about ‘Sen. Lee says conservatives need to talk more about what they stand for’

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Published: Tuesday, April 23 2013 6:38 a.m. MDT

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xert
Santa Monica, CA

I am almost positive I know exactly what the Republican party stands for. Protecting the 1% and feeding lies to those who are angry. They also stand for blocking progress if it comes from the pen of one Barack Obama and they think that when they are done with their work in Washington, they should be able to make themselves rich as lobbyists and consultants. That's a lot to stand for, but they do it well.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

...and If you believed in the LDS doctrine, you would also believe that in the future we will have all be living 100% pure Consecration (United Order, a form of Socialist/Communism) - i.e., having ALL things in common, having NO poor among them, except people will still be allowed to chose for themselves (as LIBERALS have always advocated).

RBN
Salt Lake City, UT

@the truth

You couldn't have possibly come up with a worse explanation of conservatism. I have no idea what your brand of conservatism is, but I do know it's not something I want. Perhaps you do need Mike Lee to speak more so that you can figure out what it is you really believe.

What I find tiring about American politics these days is that the branding is more important than the issues. I tire of both parties being tied to a particular ideology rather than trying to determine what works best for our country, state or locality on a case by case basis.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Open Minded Mormon" actually consecration is not a form of Socialism/Communism. Multiple Prophets and general authorities have said so.

From the First Presidency in April 1942: "Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan."

From Spencer W. Kimball's talk Our Paths have Met Again "Remember that the gospel of Jesus Christ is not compatible with radicalism or communism or any other of the 'isms.' There could be those who would profess to be your saviors."

From D&C 134:2 "We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life." Comunism and Socialism require that you give up control of your property, thus Communism/socialism cannot be part of the Law of Consecration.

So, either you don't know LDS doctrine or else you have chosen to only believe portions of it.

Liberals have advocated that there be no poor, but Conservatives have actually made efforts at reducing poverty.

RBN
Salt Lake City, UT

@redshirt

Definition of conservative is: reluctant to accept change: in favor of preserving the status quo and traditional values and customs, and against abrupt change.

Just playing a devil's advocate here, but wouldn't Christ have been considered a liberal by many of the people of his time?

Just a thought: maybe these labels (liberal, conservative and "isms") aren't terribly helpful in solving issues and problems.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

To all that disagree: Maybe you can explain to me. What is it about liberty that you don't understand? Why am I the big bad wolf because I believe in my God-given rights, guaranteed by the constitution, and a government that guaranteed those rights to do nothing but protect me in those rights? How am I a bad guy for wanting the government to live within their means and stay out of things that the constitution says are the states responsibilities? How is that anyone could look at our society today, wherein Democrats and Republicans have been in charge for the last 70 years, and say 'we need more of the same'? Republicans and Democrats love war, welfare dependency, and crave more power. How is it that we have a whole slew of people out there that want to use compulsion to achieve 'their' ends without a care for rights guaranteed under the constitution? As I've said before, if you are for Socialism, then state it and be done with it. Socialism, in the end, eliminates God and 'solves' challenges with man made answers, which don't include 'helping my neighbor'. Socialists can't stand that philosophy.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "RBN" at the time the LDS church was first organized, it was considered quite liberal socially. However, the church has maintained its position, while the nation has moved significantly to the left. At the same time, the definition of liberal has changed. The better way to look at the church, using modern terms, would be to call it libertarian.

While the use of lables doesn't solve the problems, the use of the lables does indicate what a person believes or who they identify with.

RBN
Salt Lake City, UT

The definition of liberal has changed? That's news to Noah Webster.

The problem is that conservatives have demonized the word liberal, and liberals have demonized the word conservative. Christ was a liberal. Joseph Smith was a liberal. There's nothing wrong with that label.

Let's look at issues without having to tag the issue with a label that somehow obfuscates the subject.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@bandersen
Saint George, UT
To all that disagree: Maybe you can explain to me. What is it about liberty that you don't understand? Why am I the big bad wolf because I believe in my God-given rights, guaranteed by the constitution, and a government that guaranteed those rights to do nothing but protect me in those rights?

[Because, rather than just living your life the way you see fit - you pass laws to force others to live like you. That's why.]

============

@RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UTa
at the time the LDS church was first organized, it was considered quite liberal socially. However, the church has maintained its position, while the nation has moved significantly to the left.

[The LDS Church in 1842 --
sought a stronger Federal Government,
had unothodox marriages,
provided Universal Welfare and Healthcare,
United Order {Socialism],
Women's Rights when women had none,
Freeing the Slaves,
liberal Immigration policy - encouraged and financed it,
Enviromentally Friendly,

You are right about one thing,
the Church has stayed the same [which is WHY I'm still a Mormon] -
We haven't moved, but YOU are moving away from the Church and further and further to the uber-far-right.]

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Open minded Mormon: Wherein did you gather the evidence that I am forcing anyone, including 'open minded Mormons', to do anything other than expect you to live by the Constitution that you agreed to uphold as a citizen? Please advise.

Republicantthinkstraigh
Anywhere but, Utah, Utah

When did god give us the "god given right" to posses firearms? Is this somewhere in the bible. Or is this just an american right granted by the constitution? I get so confused when the term "god given right" is used when talking about the 2nd amendment. So I ask you repubs, did god give us the right to use and posses firearms? Must be the 11th commandment.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Open Minded Mormon" it is ironic that you personally attack me for moving away from the church, when your own opinions have shown that your beliefs are not in line with LDS teachings. If the right is not compatible with LDS doctrine, tell me where? I can give you many examples of how liberalism is either denounced or is contrary to LDS teachings.

Your continual instance that United Order is socialism is completly against LDS teachings, and MULTIPLE prophets from Joseph Smith down to today have stated that is it not the same. So how can I be moving away from the church if I believe what the prophets say, and you are the one that insists on believing something contrary to what the LDS church President/Prophet has stated very clearly, See my post from 9:40 a.m. April 24.

Actually plural marriage is not "unorthodox", it was just uncommon.

I did notice that you don't disagree that the nation has moved further left. So, are you working to make man free or do you want more government to control them?

the truth
Holladay, UT

@Republicantthinkstraigh

It is a god given and human right to be able to protect one self, one's family, one's home or property, and one's country,

including tyrannical governments foreign or domestic.

Not only is it our right it is our responsibility, we are the first line of defense, all others are secondary.

-
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IT is utterly and completely laughable as the left, liberals, and progressives continue to not understand conservatism.

and how silly they are as they fall over themselves to give out ridiculous definitions and try to justify their judgmental and hypocritical ways.

Even worse and more foolishly is they will try to bring the church into their political ideologies,

Isaiah 55:8

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord."

Political definition of liberalism ans conservatism have changed.

Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ, the LDS Church, are NONE of the above.

Argue your politics, but please have integrity and leave them out.

durwood kirby
South Jordan, UT

If conservatives talk more about what they believe in, as Mr Lee suggests, maybe less people will buy what they are selling.

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

Facts of Life (as I see them) for Utah Republicans

I don't mean to upset you, but speaking as a friend, I will tell you frankly that Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, etc., will never under any imaginable circumstances be president of the United States of America. And adding the likes of Herman Cain and Donald Trump to the mix only makes matters worse. Any of them gives an unfair advantage to a Democratic candidate such as Hillary Clinton.

Pushing ultra-conservatism at the national level is largely a fool's errand. There is of course the momentary thrill of the campaign, but in the end there is always the bitter aftertaste of wasted time and money.

Why not play the game for real and consider for U.S. president more moderate and acceptable Republican candidates of genuine credibility and proven leadership such as Mike Blumenthal, Chris Christie and Jeb Bush? And come to think of it wouldn't that also be a good idea in choosing our Utah representatives here and in Washington?

Something to think about
Ogden, UT

Senator Lee is out of touch with the realities of the modern day. People I know outside of Utah tell jokes about him, with us (Utah) as the punchline.

I'm sure he's a "good guy"... I just wish he was a 'better' politician and representative of me.

old toquertoes
Sandy, UT

What a revelation! Start talking about what you are for instead of only what you're against.

Doug10
Roosevelt, UT

Senator Lee seems to be ignoring reality. He continues to espouse ideas that look good on paper but he is a member of a party that wobbles whenever it is held to task.

He wants smaller government yet opur government was bigger and more expensive 5 years ago than it is today. Are we supposed to believe him he would like smaller governement?

He says he would reduce deficit yet his party, had it been elected was planning to spend more and achieve a greater deficit than the curent government. Again Mr Lee what you say and what you do are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

In Utah you and Senator Hatch say one thing and in Washington do something else

TRUTH
Salt Lake City, UT

Its time the GOP shed itself of RINO's like Hatch, Huntsman and Bennett(McCain types).....They offer nothing different than Rocky Anderson! Its truly time for the GOP to fully embrace the "Makers" and identify the libs as the "Takers/Thieves...Go Lee, the first red state Senator Utah has ever had!

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

conservatives do talk about what they stand for ... the problem is the national majority of low information voters don't listen and don't care. America is a hand out nation now and that is how politicians get elected. This is obviously a dead end street ...coming real fast. The money will run out like it has in California and Greece and other socialist states. Until that happens people just aren't listening nor do they care. America has a very UN-enlightened public by and large who values entertainment and social media more that they do important economic survival. Kids that graduate form high school and even college are frighteningly stupid especially in the non-engineering or medical fields. This generation of Americans is a lost generation and that can't lead to good outcome. How bad is it going to get? Well - there is California and Detroit here in the US as classic examples of how socialism and unions gave gutted the economies and left nothing but abandoned buildings and a steady stream of residents leaving for other states. New York is following the same pattern. People only learn when they are desperate.

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