A house divided against itself cannot stand.Yes, there are
differences living inside of Utah or outside of Utah ( I have lived in both),
but in the big picture it is not relevant. We are all members of the same
family who share common beliefs. As believers in Christ it is wise to remember
that He made no distinction between the faithful planted in fertile soil or poor
soil. His only concern was the fruit that grew. There are
advantages to both living inside and outside of Utah. BYU has done studies
about which location produces the strongest LDS kids and their findings were
that location played no part. Let's drop the labels. They
Redshirt, I assure you as an early morning seminary alumnus that I
would have eagerly traded waking up at zero-dark-hundred on cold winter mornings
to drive/be driven to the chapel for class with anyone sacrificing an elective
like study hall to walk across the street to the nearest LDS chapel. Early
morning seminary requires a different level of commitment than simply treating
it like another school elective UtahBlueDevil is more than capable
of speaking for himself, but I don't think he is looking for any sort of
special praise for his kids' involvement in seminary. I think he's
hoping for more acknowledgement that the LDS experience along the Wasatch Front
is very much a minority one among LDS youth. He and jsmith111 are (correctly)
pointing out that the article title is misleading. Seminary has been stretching
beyond Utah for quite a while.As to stating that Christ-like
progression is the important issue, I think you'd do well to consider that
before accusing someone of hating "Utah Mormons" simply because they
point out the different experiences faced by the Saints outside of Zion. Take
the chip off your shoulder.
To "UtahBlueDevil" the kids in Utah sacrifice 1 class period per day.
They could have study hall, or an additional science, social studies, arts, or
vocational class every day. But, they sacrifice secular learning for spiritual
learning.Imagine that you had the choice of taking a class that you
found really interesting at the highschool, or taking Seminary. Is that a
sacrifice?You do hate "Utah mormons". Just using that terms
shows that you have some deep buried hatred of LDS members in Utah. Having
lived in and out of Utah I know first hand that there is a difference, but that
difference is such a minor thing that I don't care if you are in or outside
of Utah and are LDS. What matters is the learning and progression towards
becoming Christlike.If getting your kids up early for Seminary is
such an ordeal, why not enroll them in Home-Study Seminary?The
question still is, why do you want special praise and recognition for doing as
they are asked?
Redshirt... why don't you get your KIDS up 2 or 3 hours early before
school... for 800 days... then tell us all how that is the same sacrifice kids
in Utah make to go to release time Seminary.No one is hating Utah.
Is it really all that hard for Utah mormons to not accept that those who
don't live in zion have to go a little bit further. Pointing this out is
somehow hate talk. Good grief, could some in Utah have any thinner skins about
it."Don't cheapen the Seminary experience by attaching some
sort of praise for just attending"This is probably the best
quote yet that some in Utah have absolutely no clue what kids elsewhere give up
to do the right thing. What is so wrong with acknowleding their extra effort.
How does that hurt some Utahn's feelings?
Wow, the Utah haters even get into the Seminary article.I am still
trying to figure out why kids need to be praised and get special recognition for
going to early morning Seminary. Do we praise the Elders and High Priests who
set up the chairs for Sunday? Do we praise the kids who go to their YM/YW
activities?If this is what is expected, why do we need to give them
special praise and attention?Yes going to early morning Seminary is
a sacrifice, but if we start to use it to get praise it becomes less about the
learning and more about the praise.Don't cheapen the Seminary
experience by attaching some sort of praise for just attending.
I only did the "early morning" route for one semester - my last semester
of my senior year - because it was 100% worth it. I don't know what I would
have done without seminary all four years of high school!! Not only was it a
place of religious instruction, but a gathering place, when something bad
happened, it was the "LDS" thing to head over to the seminary building
where your friends were. Even Institue in College was one of the best things to
ever happen to me.
Each school morning, most of them arise between 4:30 and 5:00am so they can be
on time for the start of our class.They all travel to Seminary via
different methods, cars, public transportation, and, in a few cases, walking.
They come from all walks of life, many from humble circumstances by the
world's standards. Some of the neighborhoods they must travel through are
not safe, especially on dark and early mornings. They are determined to be at
Seminary against many odds.They are attentive and alert as they
participate in our class. They memorize the 25 Scripture Mastery scriptures and
do their outside ready to prepare for class each day. Many take full academic
loads and maintain excellent grades in preparation for college, missions, and
future careers.Each morning after Seminary, they depart for their day at
High School, extra curricular activities, lessons, jobs, family
responsibilities, and Church activities.Many of them say they would not
want to start their school day in any other way. I agree. Although I am
their teacher, they teach me many lessons about love, sacrifice, dedication, and
" another example of how the Utah Mormon experience is so far outside the
mainstream LDS experience"Could not have said it better. Things
like making seminary attendance and graduation a requirement for kids to get
into BYU don't come close to recognizing the the sacrifice kids living
outside of Utah make in order to get the same opportunities Utah LDS get. Make
the kids in Utah get up at 5 am year long.... to attend school at 6 am, and then
you have a level playing field.No, life isn;t fair. But it would be
nice to see some recognition from that big tall building in Salt Lake of the
extra effort required from non-Utah lDS youth to get the same opportunities.
Graduating from seminary in Utah takes mountains less dedication than it does
This article has a terrible title. The title should be something about record
enrollment, not Utah finally sharing Seminary with the Outer Stakes.Do the math: Utah only has around 87,000 of the 200,000+ US Seminary students.
That's not a majority. Seminary has not been a predominantly Utah
experience for decades. More students are enrolled in early morning courses than
released time -- another example of how the Utah Mormon experience is so far
outside the mainstream LDS experience.
I taught early morning seminary in California for 8 years. It was the most
demanding and most rewarding assignment I ever had. The kids were wonderful and
cherished lifelong relationships were formed. I wouldn't change it for the
I suspect a similar thing is happening with Institute & college age young
adults. Like to see a story on that.
I'm really happy the article mentioned sacrifices of those who attend early
morning seminary. I keep hearing about the faithful youth in Utah who do
baptisms for the dead before school each day (in talks, and also in the recent
YW broadcast, it showed a young lady doing baptisms before school), but our
nearest temple is 3 hours away, and our kids go to early morning seminary. I
think it is time they get recognized too.
The best model is the model used outside Utah -- where you use stake resources
and don't pay them.