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Boy Scouts of America proposal would end ban on gay youths, but keep ban on gay leaders

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  • David Gale Salt Lake City, UT
    May 24, 2013 12:26 a.m.

    I'm surprised to read so many of these posts are about LDS beliefs, sexual behavior and not about the Boy Scouts of America. I was encourage to read the wise position that the LDS and Catholic church have in place against discrimination against gay persons. From reading some of these posts, some quite reactionary and hateful, they have more work to do to get the word out. Discriminating against homosexual persons is against Roman Catholic Canon Law as well LDS church teaching. The Constitution is clear about this. Period! Issues surrounding sexual behavior and marriage for both heterosexual and homosexual persons is a separate issue, which it seems those who identify themselves as hetero, are failing miserably. This was a wise step that will help the BSA appeal to a younger generation, many of whom, are not homophobic and don't find this an issue.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 26, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    Go 273 river miles; Scouting is not the Young Mens program. They are 2 totally different programs.

  • TA1 Alexandria, VA
    April 25, 2013 5:29 a.m.

    To those of you who disapprove of this move and no longer have any desire to be associated with the Scouting program and wish to leave or disassociate yourselves - please do so quickly - so that Scouting may once again become what is should have been all along and what I believe - Lord Baden-Powell intended it to be (and already is in many other countries).

  • Go 273 river miles Draper, UT
    April 24, 2013 5:42 p.m.

    If you are LDS and you think being gay is a choice you are diametrically opposed to the recent pronouncement of the First Presidency on the website mormonsandgays.org. It's not a choice. Gay boys are painfully aware at 12 years old that they are attracted boys, not girls and that they are different. They all struggle with it and a very large number give up the fight and kill themselves. Scouting is the Young Mens program of the church, all gay young man are ostracized from the YM program, by policy or by choice, because of this exclusionary policy. There is no gay agenda; -- other wanting to be treated with the same respect and fairness that society offers everyone else. There are a lot of people with opinions given to them by someone else; a couple of years ago, I was one of them. I believe being gay in Utah is the hardest thing any young man or woman could suffer. I believe that parents who throw their gay children out in their greatest hour of need are going to have a real problem when/if they stand before God someday.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    April 24, 2013 5:20 p.m.

    @but seriously --

    "Gay urges can be put down with effort and counseling, to do other wise is a sign of w\moral weakness."

    And of course, you know better than all the medical and psychological professionals who disagree with you.

    Could you please let us know how many patients you have personally treated? Or tell us all the peer-reviewed scientific papers you have written on the subject? Or let us know which professional medical and psychological societies share your view? Or even give us any evidence at all to support your claim?

    I'd appreciate it!

  • But seriously folks! Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    No matter which side you are on this was a total cop out by the BSA. They ask the scouts to stand up straight and stick to their principles and yet they cave into political pressure. My years of being a century club member is over, and no this is not to punish young men who are gay. It is more about donating to an organization with no backbone.

    For all those who say that homosexuality is not a choice you are dead wrong. It is a choice just like straight men also have a choice. Gay urges can be put down with effort and counseling, to do other wise is a sign of w\moral weakness.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 24, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    re:Say No to BO

    As the LDS church reaches the 15 million mark membership wise and most likely in 10 years the 20 million mark or more it finds itself having a more and more diverse membership. Instead of being mostly Utah Mormons with pretty much the standard upbringing from birth in the Church it now has an ever growing membership of converts - converts who have come from all parts of life in all parts of the world. Many converts have experienced a far different world compared to those of us brought up here in Utah and many have had to experience an "Alma the Younger" type conversion in their lives. They have lived and seen the other side of the fence so to speak so it behooves all of us to welcome those new converts and expect some tattoos and ear piercings and other life styles lived in their per-baptismal years. All of these people are welcome and loved. Recall the Lord himself said that he was sent to the "sick among us" and not for the well. The Lord was found often times in the company of the worst in the city...on purpose.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 24, 2013 1:56 p.m.

    re:HS Fan

    There are always some at age 12 or 13 who can be identified as having same gender attraction and your son is part of a very small minority at that age - an age where most boys are barely scratching the surface of understanding their sexuality. Perhaps a 16 or 17 year old would be more able to understand and identify those same gender feelings but I have been involved with thousands of boys via scouting and have never come across a 12 or 13 year old with openly gay feelings. I am not saying a 12 or 13 year old can't have those feelings - your son obviously did - I am just saying it is very rare at that age. The real point I was making was I support all boys regardless and want none to feel rejected. I think this move by BSA was the right one.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 24, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    Sad day when people can't decided between right, and wrong.

  • elarue NEW YORK, NY
    April 23, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    The church already says that members who consider themselves to be homosexual but who do not act on their homosexual inclinations can be members of the church in good standing, even up to holding a temple recommend. So why would the church have a problem retaining their partnership with the Boy Scouts after this policy change? If anything, it gets these boys more involved, and it gets them greater exposure to an LDS environment, and therefore, gives them greater strength and resolve to live the gospel. This sounds like a win.

  • jmtcbarby Casper, WY
    April 22, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    @RanchHand: You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 22, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    Philippine Bonita: The BSA is not a faith based organization.

  • Capsaicin Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    Heres to the church pulling its support if this passes and starting it's own scouting program.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2013 2:09 p.m.

    The problem is this policy would basically suggest "okay here's your Eagle Scout, now get out, you aren't welcome anymore".

  • The.Canuck Tooele, UT
    April 22, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    As a hetero ScoutMaster / leader of several yeras I am deeply conflicted by this.

    Scouting has been a great activity for numerous young boys in my neighborhood. Even my own sons have enjoyed being in scouts. I enjoy teaching the lessons from the Scout manual and having some fun and safe outdoor experiences.

    Sex or sexual preference has never been a part of any lesson in scouting that I have taught or been taught. I have learned as much from scouting as I have taught btw.

    The nearest to the topic of sex that we get to is morality and personal safety. It will be difficult to mesh the religious beliefs of LDS troops with this new policy.

    While I don't personally see any issues with including gay boys in scouts, I have a hard time seeing how a boy aged 8-11 can feel any sexuality towards anyone. Boys that age should be curious about pocket knives, frogs, safe campfires and smores. Not sexuality.

    If someone is pushing the open sexuality of this age group something is wrong. Something perverse is being pushed onto a group that doesn't want it.

  • dtlenox Olympia, WA
    April 22, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    I think this is probably the only reasonable solution, as it allows scouting to reach out to those young men who have same sex attraction, without condoning a young man's decision to act on those feelings. Although I do think a man who has same-sex attraction, but who doesn't act on those feelings, could still be a good scout leader, I don't think the scouting program is ready or even able to try to make that distinction for scout leaders. I do think that is the ideal criteria though, and is the one the LDS church currently uses, as there are many people who do have same sex attraction, who don't act on it and who don't dwell on it or parade it around like a badge of honor, who are yet active and faithful LDS church members in every way. Some are even married happily to a person of the opposite sex.

  • friends2you District Heights, MD
    April 22, 2013 6:40 a.m.

    A quick note for those who say shame on those who don't agree on letting gay youth and adults members into the BSA; remember there are many clubs, organizations who cater to certain preferences so if your not happy with one create one in the image of what you wish. Keep in mind that young men have raging hormones and some have trouble with these urges so some youth will be approached with requests for sex by homosexual peers. We can love all but not inappropriate behavior.
    There will be some who will say< "Oh no, there will be no young men asking to have sex with heterosexual young boys." I tell you that growing up I was asked many times by a homosexual youth to engage in inappropriate behavior on weekends. Was very hard to deal with.The BSA is only trying to protect youth which is their # 1 priority.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2013 3:03 a.m.

    @ wYo8

    So did you not know you were straight until you acted on those feelings?

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    April 22, 2013 12:16 a.m.

    As I see it, the LDS Church has the following choices and consequences if it accepts a BSA ruling that gay boys can be accepted, but gay adult leaders cannot:

    1) The Church may choose to adopt its own policy of continuing to exclude, with the SCOTUS' legal backing of freedom of association. This however will cause an issue when LDS troops join with non-LDS troops at Scout Camps or Jamborees.

    2) The LDS Church may accept the new policy, but will suffer a severe lack of male leaders willing to associate with a group that now fosters a position that they disagree with on moral grounds. Not only Scoutmasters, but all YM Presidencies and Advisers will have to be allowed to resign their post without repercussion or denigration by local leadership. I'm not saying all would, but the article indicates that in Utah 70%+ would, and I believe that in much of the heartland the numbers would be similar.

    3) Discontinue scouting as the mechanism for YM activities. As few LDS troops run the program by the book anyway, which do you think is likely?

    #3 would be easiest. Just re-route their FOS $$ to a new program.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    April 22, 2013 12:05 a.m.

    "As to the "sleep-over" questions: Isn't "two deep" leadership (and that means two leaders in tandem patrolling outside tents while the boys go to sleep) part of the solution? Camping is an important part of scouting, leaders just need to make it safe."

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

    I bet there aren't 1/2 of 1% of troops that have this type of supervision. As soon as it's lights out, the leaders are sawing logs, or playing cards, or sneaking off to sleep in their truck, where it's warm......

  • Philippine Bonita Sammamish, WA
    April 21, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    @Denverite!
    "... The vast majority of Scout-age boys who think they are gay are simply confused at their age and need all the acceptance they can get...an openly gay leader...... can influence my son that homosexuality is acceptable when it's not. Though it's a temptation.....acting on that temptation is never acceptable--and I don't want my son spendig time with men or women who clearly think it is."

    Notice that Denverite did not say that gay members of society do not have value. Notice that he did not say that he hates them or thinks they are pedophiles. He said he does not want his on spending time with men or women who feel that acting on homosexual feelings is acceptable.

  • Philippine Bonita Sammamish, WA
    April 21, 2013 6:56 p.m.

    @Really??? Can you clarify your post? If your friend took his life 20 years ago How did you recently read a Facebook post by him while Facebook has only been around for 9 years? I am not criticizing, just a little confused.
    I am saddened that families sometimes react in un-Christian ways to the coming out of gay family members and VERY sad to hear of situations like the one you describe where the isolation is so complete and painful that someone would see no other choice but to end their life.
    Could please clarify your post so that I understand you better? Thanks.

  • Philippine Bonita Sammamish, WA
    April 21, 2013 6:44 p.m.

    @Tolstoy, sorry luv, the Boy Scouts of America IS a faith-based organization.

  • Philippine Bonita Sammamish, WA
    April 21, 2013 6:38 p.m.

    @John20000 wrote, " There is a huge, huge difference between performing homosexual acts and feeling a sexual attraction towards the same gender. I am adamantly opposed to the Boys Scouts embracing teenagers (or adults) who are performing homosexual acts and are thinking there is nothing wrong with that. I am adamantly in favor of the Boy Scouts embracing teenagers (and adults) who feel a sexual attraction towards the same gender, but choose not to act on it"

    AMEN!

  • Copy Cat Murray, UT
    April 21, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    one vote
    Salt Lake City, UT
    "This could end LDS church domination of local troops. Excellent."

    While you are celebrating, remember that what you call 'domination' is also called massive support.

    Also remember that there are many many boys who will not be participating in scouts, if this change goes through.

    You want to kick all those boys out? You are the one being discriminatory and exclusive.

  • Jeremy Parker Petersburg, Alaska
    April 21, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    I do not think that any sexually active scout should be allowed to continue on. I do not want my kids associating with kids who now have one foot in adulthood prematurely. If a kid wants to be a grown-up let them be and not a scout. Keep the purity and decency in tact for those who choose the proper order of things.

  • G L W8 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    April 21, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    Once again: the legal issue is the real can of worms here, folks! So-called gays are using the courts, politics, and "human rights" issues to gain open acceptance of their lifestyles. Those of you saying sexual orientation is nobody else's business are absolutely correct! But they're using courts and public opinion to make it our business!

    We'd be better off to keep some things personal and quit worrying about banning boys. But the gays won't let it be! Court cases will be a reality for years to come regardless of what the BSA decides.

    Some boys bully, even to the extent of threatening other boys' lives. Are we going to ban them too?

    As to the "sleep-over" questions: Isn't "two deep" leadership (and that means two leaders in tandem patrolling outside tents while the boys go to sleep) part of the solution? Camping is an important part of scouting, leaders just need to make it safe.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    April 21, 2013 7:14 a.m.

    What surprises me in all of this is how many of YOU simply deny the fact that many of your sons, brothers, fathers and associates are gay. 11 to 15% of all men and women are. Growing up in the Utah culture makes it extremely difficult to "come out" so they don't. Don't put your heads in the sand and play like this isn't so. It's time for the Church and it's members to stop this silly discrimination and accept people for who they are, not for who they expect them to be.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    April 21, 2013 12:32 a.m.

    @Fitz

    "If the BSA concedes to this pressure, like so many other private organizations have over the years, then it is a loss to everyone that believes one has a right to choose who one desires to associate with."

    This is why, I can easily a time in which churches will not only be forced to marry same-sex couples, but forced to abandon any "politically incorrect" practices, ceremonies or doctrines which they may have.

    Ironic that those who claim to be the strongest defenders of the separation of church and state are among those working hardest to butt into churches, demanding they conform to their own ideas and agendas.

  • LeeCrites Canyon, Texas
    April 20, 2013 11:11 p.m.

    The LDS Church does not need the Boy Scouts. Within a few months, we could build our own organization that does the same things -- and probably for cheaper. If we want an established organization with a proven track record, there's always DeMolay.

    The issue isn't the "orientation," it's the activity. I had a gay scout master. He and his gay buddies made the only two campouts I went on pure hell. I would have never known if they kept it to themselves.

    But you know what? We also don't let "practicing" alcoholics be scout masters or youth leaders. But an alcoholic who is clean and sober has no problems being given that kind of position.

  • MarcInTN Bartlett, TN
    April 20, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    The BSA is an awesome organization and has been for many years. The "agenda" is to destroy the BSA by driving out the religious support. I think the churches should fight tooth and nail to save it and it's standards and not jump ship unless it is absolutely beyond saving.

  • wYo8 Rock Springs, WY
    April 20, 2013 8:31 p.m.

    Agree with patriot, How does a 12 year old know if he is gay or not until he acts upon any feeling or thoughts he has towards sex. If I think about pot and want to get high smoking it. Am I a pothead before I actually start smoking it.

  • Fitz Murray, UT
    April 20, 2013 5:48 p.m.

    SCOTUS has handed down a decision that clearly stated that BSA is a private organization and can set the rules about who can and can not join. This is about having an organization where you associate with people you want to associate with and not about an association that, by monetary and political pressure, force you to associate with someone you would not care to associate with. BSA is under these great pressure right now to change the long standing rules on membership. If the BSA concedes to this pressure, like so many other private organizations have over the years, then it is a loss to everyone that believes one has a right to choose who one desires to associate with.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 20, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Many parents won't have their child camping with a gay boy. Don't want to expose their son to the influence. It's they're choice.

    Gays should start their own scouting program with like minded scout leaders.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 20, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Tolstoy: Religion is in scouting and all the boys have to receive a religious merit badge to get their eagle award howsever, if can be the reliong of their choice.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 20, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    MapleDon: All boys deserve to be part of scouting

  • roberto Moses Lake, WA
    April 20, 2013 4:14 p.m.

    I'm so so tired of this political correct garbage being shoved down my throat. If gay want to be in an organization that does scout stuff then start one. If they want "benefits" that married couples get then start a group that can pool their resources and give those benefits they seek. Tax "benefits"....good luck....we are already over taxed. I don't see the bullying, I don't believe there is any more bias against your than there is for any other minority group. I do how ever feel resentment because you seek special treatment when you don't deserve it any more than I do.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    April 20, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    Miss Piggie says:

    "The problem is... gay boys think their sexual urgings are quite normal and there's nothing wrong with them at the Boy Scout age."

    ---

    Quite frankly, they're correct. There's nothing wrong with them.

    @jmtcbarby;

    And I believe that your leaders are not speaking for God, but from their own biases.

    @Mom Johnson;

    Once again, may I please have a copy of the "gay agenda"?

    @LetsDebate;

    You make some good points, however, I'll point out once again that "morally straight" does NOT mean "heterosexual", it means, in the case of the boys, celibate, upright, etc.

    @suzyk#1;

    "It's okay to be immoral... and discriminate against others." How well does that fit into the scout oath?

    @John C. C.;

    Marriage helps reduce promiscuity. Whodathunkit.

  • MiddleRight Orem, UT
    April 20, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    When I was this age, a friend of mine was "befriended" by an older boy who was gay. My friend told me that it was really cool and we should try it which I wasn't interested in. I doubt he would be gay now if that older kid (17, 18 or older) hadn't been there. Till then we talked about and were excited about girls. I didn't even know what Gay/Homosexual was, but I soon figured out I didn't have anything in common with him anymore.

    Some kids have those tendencies, but I have seen several that would not have occurred without an older person "converting" the kid.

    I don't think a kid who is not openly gay is going to be banned now. I think a kid who is sexually active should not be in scouting under these rules. The Gay and Lesbian community activists are promoting sexual activity.

    We have a few board members who got on the BSA board only to push an agenda. Now that it has been pushed, the box is open and the mess is complete. Either way it goes now the BSA will likely not last many more years.

  • TheWalker Saratoga Springs, UT
    April 20, 2013 3:46 p.m.

    Homosexuality is, and always has been, a form of sexual perversion. It has been declared to be a sin of immense moral magnitude by both ancient and modern prophets. Allowing openly homosexual boys into the Scouting program sends a message that such a lifestyle is an acceptable alternative to the one which patterned by our Creator. Attitudes are contagious. Should the BSA allow openly homosexual boys into their their midst, neither I nor my sons will be there to see how it turns out.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    April 20, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    The biggest misunderstanding here still seems to be the issue of attraction vs action. Adults of all ages with same-gender attraction have always been welcome in the Church of Jesus Christ as well as in the Boy Scouts of Americas. It's how individuals deal with their attraction that matters. Promiscuity is grounds for losing membership, regardless of the genders involved. Anyone who thinks it is acceptable for youth to engage in sexual acts as a normal part of growing up is wrong. Morally straight individuals wait for marriage.

    We value all people and encourage them to return to a "morally straight" life style if they stray, even if some acts may disqualify them for some privileges. That's not the same as hate, or even rejection. It shows that we want the best and expect the best.

    The LDS Church is currently considering its response to the proposed change. It has prominent leaders in the BSA body that votes on policy changes.

    My response will depend on how BSA defines "open." Attraction or action?

  • OneAmerican Idaho Falls, ID
    April 20, 2013 3:09 p.m.

    The Church's official statement on being non-discriminative will make it hard for them to say you can't participate if you have same-gender attraction. If a 14-year-old boy tells his bishop that he is struggling with same gender attraction, will he "dis-enroll" him from scouts? I don't see that happening. However, the church gave a warning to parents regarding "sleep overs". The Boy Scouts do sleep overs. Adult leaders, for obvious reasons, are not allowed to stay in the same tents as the youth so they can't chaperone the boys. So, if a same-gender struggling scout decides to "experiment" with another scout on a scouting "sleep over", it creates a potential problem for the church. This is a difficult issue. I think it is time for the church to leave the BSA, stop having scout "sleep overs" and focus on the Duty to God award.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 20, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    The acts of gays are wrong, and cannot be justified.

    This posted by another is worth re-posting:

    "On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my Country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. "

    This decision has no honor.
    It ignores one's duty to God.
    It does not help other people.
    It is morally contorted.

    Bye bye Boy Scouts

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    April 20, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    I, too believe the almight dollar was a big part of caving in to the homosexual issue. This behavior can be controlled but now the Boy Scouts of America are actually saying, "it's okay if you are immoral and have desires and feelings toward the same sex" we'll make it possible for you to continue being a homsexual and we won't have to deal with the pressure we have been experiencing. Who says there won't be trouble with these boys who have chosen to be "gay" on outings - it only takes one time to dramatically affect and deeply hurt an innocent and wholesome young boy. I do not believe this is right and I will not support their decision with donations. All I can do is shake my head in disappointment.

  • cille Palmyra, ME
    April 20, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    Scout camp is not about just 12 and thirteen year old boys. I have three young relatives who are going who are 16 and 17 years old. I would never send my son to camp to share a tent with a young woman. It would be entirely inappropriate no matter how well supervised the activity. Why would I send him to share a tent with a young man who has the same kind of feelings toward him as the young woman would have? I would not. It would also be entirely inappropriate. Sometimes truth and right have to trump seeming kindness.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    April 20, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    I don't think there are any scouting activities that involve group showers or sleeping in shared bedding. What, exactly is the danger of a same-sex attracted scout on a campout, in a group tent, in his own private sleeping bag? Is homosexuality contagious during the sleeping portion of the campout? What do some of you think is going to happen?

    Also, there's no way a scout leader, gay or not, would ever be in a situation to abuse a scout, unless 2-deep leader policies and 1-on-1 prohibitions are violated. But, the bigger problem with having gay leaders, even committed monogomous ones, is the implication that homosexuality is a morally equivalent or acceptable sexual choice, compatible with the "morally straight" clause of the oath. It's highly inappropriate to impose acceptance of gay scout leaders on a private organization, especially those chartered by religious bodies.

    But the scouts themselves are merely boys trying to figure out a lot about themselves. I'm not aware of any merit badges, camping workshops, or any other type of activity that focuses on sexuality at all, of any kind. It's not part of the program. Why are we worried about it?

  • Mom Johnson West Jordan, UT
    April 20, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    Hello People!!! Don't you recognize that the "agenda" of the homosexual society is to force it's way into society hoping for acceptance???

    For those of you who were scouts before the "ban", how many of you even knew of fellow scouts struggling with their sexual identity. It was NOT an issue to even be discussed. Boys were expected to be showing their duty to God, Country and to help people. Become physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

    It was because of the homosexual's wanting to be "accepted" and forcing their sexuality on others (i.e. leaders who took advantage of their position, etc.) That this "ban" began. They (the homosexuals) the homosexuals did it to themselves. They created the environment that caused the BAN. Now they want the BSA to accept their feelings and their behaviors once again.

    Even those boys who were struggling with a huge heterosexual attraction were expected to not make it an issue and focus on the great things that scouting had to offer.

    Why, Why, Why does anyone need to know the sexuality of another???? What is the purpose??? It's an agenda.

  • jmtcbarby casper, WY
    April 20, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    I am 100% sure that our Prophet of today leads our church under the direct counsel of God the Father himself. Clearly this is a decision that isn't going to please all. I for one, will follow whatever counsel he gives us, even if it doesn't go along with "my" book of opinions. We need to have faith in those we sustain.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 20, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    I remember a few years ago when state legislatures across the country fought tooth and nail to keep public schools from having "Gay/Straight Alliance" clubs. Today most schools have such organizations and Gays are open about their sexual orientation. Much to the surprise of the older generation, the sky did not fall, and everyone did not suddenly decide to become gay. Violence and persecution has dropped off. I no longer have Gay students showing up to my office in pain literally wanting to kill themselves.

    I believe the same benefits will result from changing this policy and I would urge its adoption.

  • Tomthearcher Franklin, GA
    April 20, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Imagine the laughter that the Adversary is enjoying now

  • Miss Piggie Pheonix, AZ
    April 20, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    The problem is... gay boys think their sexual urgings are quite normal and there's nothing wrong with them at the Boy Scout age.

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    April 20, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    Yes, continue to isolate yourself from every group until all you have left is your little walled community. See how far that gets you.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    April 20, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    The BSA appears to be virtually the only scouting organization in the world that still discriminates against gay boys and men.

    There are no restrictions against membership **or** leadership by gays in: Scouts Canada, the Baden-Powell Service Association in the United States, Scouts Australia, or in most European associations, including The Scout Association of the United Kingdom, Ring deutscher Pfadfinderverbände of Germany (German Scout Federation), and the Swedish Guide and Scout Association.

    Why are some Americans so worried about this change, when equal treatment for all is obviously already working for all these other scouting groups? Are American boys somehow more vulnerable than all these other boys? Perhaps you think that American boys would succumb to temptation, while all those other boys have the strength to resist? Or are all those other boys somehow already ruined and beyond hope of salvation?

    Seriously -- why would an open policy not work here, when it already works everywhere else? What makes BSA unique?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 20, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    " I don't want an openly gay leader fdr my son because he can influence my son that homosexuality is acceptable when it's not."

    Lets be really clear, it is not the role of any scout leader at any time to be talking to any boy about sexual orientation, one way or another. There are no cases where this is appropriate. Gay, Straight, what ever.

    This subject doesn't belong in scouting.

    There are gay people in most any aspect of life today.... and you would have no idea of their orientation. And that is the way it should be. One's romantic leanings has no place in many aspects of life - Scouts is no different.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 20, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    This could end LDS church domination of local troops. Excellent.

  • Denverite Centennial, CO
    April 20, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Though I am strongly against lifting the ban at all, if anything is changed, I could actually live with this. The vast majority of Scout-age boys who think they are gay are simply confused at their age and need all the acceptance they can get, especially with all the screwsd-up families in the world.

    People who think the ban on gay leaders is purely because a boy might become a leader's personal targst miss one other important point: I don't want an openly gay leader fdr my son because he can influence my son that homosexuality is acceptable when it's not. Though it's a temptation that some have to deal with (and I gratefully do not), acting on that temptation is never acceptable--and I don't want my son spendig time with men or women who clearly think it is.

  • MarcInTN Bartlett, TN
    April 20, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    My son was never asked if he were gay when he joined the BSA. He was asked to agree to uphold the Scout Law and the Scout Oath. There's nothing mean spirited or bigoted about the current policy of disallowing "openly gay" adults and youth. Being "openly gay" is a political position. For the sake of the young men struggling to overcome same-sex attraction, the BSA needs to stand firm against the political position and continue to disallow openly gay adults and youth while encouraging all young men to uphold the scout law and oath - whatever their personal struggles.

  • mattmo Gallatin, MO
    April 20, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    Here's another issue that patriot alluded to when on camp outs or showering do you single out this boy with these homosexual tendencies by telling them they will have to wait until all the other boys are showered. Or you have to sleep in your own tent? Or is the BSA going to make separate shower stalls for everyone and everyone has to sleep alone in their own tents?

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 20, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Yea for America.

  • fangflyer LAKE WALES, FL
    April 20, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    The values of our society continue to erode daily. The Boy Scouts of America need to stand firm on their principles and against amending them to suit "political correctness".

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    April 20, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    Having openly gay leaders is certainly something worthy of debate and concern. Having gay scouts is a total non-issue. I don't know how scouting works outside the LDS church, but the fact is every LDS male youth in America is enrolled in scouting. The level of participation varies, of course, but anytime they want to get a Merit Badge or go on a campout, they are all welcome.

    Most, if not all, young men who engage in the wrong things, whether it's shoplifting, drugs, or sexual activity on either team, aren't interested in participating in scouts. The Bishop might be talking to such kids and counseling them, but I've never heard of a young man being kicked out of the scouting program or prevented from participating in any scouting or youth activity. Probably no scout could get an Eagle or advance if he is openly sexually active, so who are we worried about here?

    We certainly have scouts with same sex attraction already. If they're not acting out sexually, what rule have they broken and how would you propose to identify them and kick them out?

  • G L W8 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    April 20, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    Most of the discussion is over the moral question, but how about the legal one? Where is the protection going to be to a chartered organization--which could be an LDS Ward, not the church in general, because the ward is the sponsoring institution--if an adult leader, after registering, reveals he is homosexual and sues to retain his scout membership and position? I don't see where the National Council has clarified legal issues; they have only muddied the waters.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 20, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    Tolerant (noun): A Tolerant is someone who, usually through patronizing self-conceit, has interpreted Jesus Christ's gospel as acceptance of any evil on the grounds that he/she is living in such a way as to advise Him on what is acceptable or not.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    April 20, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    For some boys, the difference in being a homosexual, or heterosexual, is a blink of an eye in today's society. Choosing homosexual is not gods will. Why have a homosexual leader in there midst then?

  • Dante Salt Lake City, UT
    April 20, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    Few 12 year-olds who have gay leanings are even aware that they are gay. Few act out sexually. I remember in my scout troop there was a boy who later turned out to be gay. He was rather effeminate at 12 years old and didn't fit in well. We endured his misfittedness with marginal tolerance, but resisted teasing him. I think few 12 to 14 year-old gay boys will want to be scouts, and few parents will force them to participate in scouting. To the extent that's true, this is probably an idealogical issue, which will impose little practical change upon 95% of scout troops.

    I remain wary of any effect of this change on older boy scouts around the age of 16 who may wish to continue participation, particularly those who become instructors at summer camps. Perhaps those would fall into the category of scout "leaders."

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 20, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    Someone asked "Should we accept adulterers, liars, thieves, etc"

    The answer is that yes, because you do already. If you go to church, most every sunday there are those who are guilty of the above mentioned sins in that congregation. For example, there are those who accept payment for services in cash, and don't declare that income on their taxes. That at a minimum is luting. It is a lie when they file their taxes, and it is a lie to the question if they are honest in all their business dealings.

    Church, and its programs, are not intended to be a sanctuary for the perfect, but a place where all can go to get closer to the Lord, and work on becoming perfect. I am pretty confident there are perfect people at church each sunday... some just hide those things they are working on better than others.

  • mary-mary Houston, TX
    April 20, 2013 6:26 a.m.

    I'm not going to send my teenage son into the woods for a week long camping trip with a teenage girl for obvious reasons and I won't send him into the woods with a gay young man. I didn't give to Friends of Scouting this year because they were considering this and if it passes, I won't give to them again.

    The goal of Scouting should not be to include as many boys as possible or stay tax-exempt. If that's their goal then they are about money and not about the families and youth that have supported them for years- many times for generations.

  • Honest Abe Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 11:40 p.m.

    The Scout Oath defines the qualities and attributes one aspires to live as a scout. It is both personal and reflective. I will live it, honor it, and keep it.

  • sky2k1 Provo, UT
    April 19, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    @RanchHand

    It's true that they aren't the same thing, but I highly doubt any male pedophile who has molested little boys only likes little boys and women. And you do know married to a woman and straight aren't the same thing right? It could just be someone still hiding in the closet.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    April 19, 2013 10:02 p.m.

    RanchHand
    Huntsville, UT

    @3grandslams;

    And the 2nd was to love thy neighbor. Another was to "Judge not lest ye be judged". Good luck at the judgement seat.

    _______

    No problem. I also like "Judges in Israel."
    How nice of you to selectively leave out what is said before and after "Judge not lest ye be judged."

  • Well.ok Lehi, UT
    April 19, 2013 9:41 p.m.

    I'm embarrassed that so many of my fellow Latter-Day Saints are making such ignorant statements. I think you can make the case with keeping the ban on gay leaders because of the camping issues, but denying a young man who is otherwise living a clean moral life the ability to participate is simply wrong. Who's going to remind the young deacon each week that he's not invited as the quorum discusses the week's scouting activities? It's sad that Jesus would gladly welcome a gay boy to church, but many here wouldn't welcome that same boy to scouts.

  • wer South Jordan, UT
    April 19, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    IS there a way that BSA could legally separate homosexual from straight boys in overnighter situations? If the law states they can now, then it won't long before that will be considered discrimination and will be banned.

    Next, should this admission change happen (kids accepted, but not adults), it won't be long before the homosexual agenda will make certain that won't be allowed either. Then, since homosexual behavior will be classified as being morally straight, it will have to taught as acceptable behavior in the scout handbook.

    Folks, what used to considered illegal and immoral, is now neither in the eyes of power brokers. For the BSA to cave now will mean one of the last bastions of moral courage will be gone, replaced with "tolerance".

    And, should this thing regress as the homosexual agenda would like, your kindergartners in public schools will be taught that having two "moms" is acceptable. Anything short of that will be 'discrimination'.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    April 19, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    Irrespective of how one feels about this, the application is simply not to the 12 year old boys often mentioned in the comments.

    In its more advanced groups, Scouting includes YM up to age 18. Yes, many leave scouting by that age. But not all. Analysis should be made in that light.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    April 19, 2013 8:55 p.m.

    @The Reader;

    Why not just stop judging and let god deal with it?

    @MapleDon;

    And I refuse to give to the boy scouts because of their bigotry. ("morally staight" doesn't mean "heterosexual", it means upright. Gays can be just as upright and "morally straight" as you - even sexually active gays).

    @sky2k1 & cjb & JSB;

    Important note: the majority of boys who have been molested in the scouting program were
    molested by married men. Pedophilia and homosexuality are NOT the same thing.

    @cjb;

    I do agree with your second comment 100%.

    @SportsChemistry;

    Money rules. Sad to say, but that's reality.

    @patriot;

    I knew I was gay at 12. The closet was the safest place to be back then.

    @Way of the Warrior

    Could you honestly look someone in the eye who you knew was a good person (maybe even your own son) and tell them they are not good enough to be a scout leader upon finding out their sexual orientation was homosexual?

    @3grandslams;

    And the 2nd was to love thy neighbor. Another was to "Judge not lest ye be judged". Good luck at the judgement seat.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    April 19, 2013 7:50 p.m.

    I hope-sincerely hope--that some of you who have posted on here will never have to deal with the fear and pain that comes when confronting their family members about their sexual orientation. It's something that is difficult enough as it is, but to know how some of you feel about those who "deal with same-sex attraction" could make that an extremely emotional issue that could lead to depression and possibly even suicide.

    I read a Facebook post from a high-school friend recently. He was sharing the pain his family experienced as a result of how they mishandled his same sex attraction. They rejected him, refused to accept him, and reminded him that he was a sinner. They thought it was for his own good. Unfortunately, he lost hope and took his own life. That was over twenty years ago, but his family still feels the pain today. They realize now that all they were asked to do was love him. Their actions made him feel like he wasn't loved.

    Isn't love the high law, anyway?

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    April 19, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    I don't see how the BSA could have done more to polarize this issue. All they have managed to do is to offend both sides at once. Makes no sense! It will be interesting and very telling to see how various scouting sponsors respond. I have given a significant amount of property and money to scouting and I find the BSA's decision to be very, very disturbing and will not be donating anything further. Before anyone criticizes my position, you don't know which way I feel, so hold your judgement...

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    April 19, 2013 7:17 p.m.

    What happens when polygamists, bigamists, polyandrists, or prostitutes claim their constitutional rights? I'm sure all the gays will want to support all these in their search for liberty under the constitution, right?those too, right?

  • All Ways Blessed AWB Newburgh, NY
    April 19, 2013 7:15 p.m.

    Those things that are worth saying should be said over and sometimes over again and again: therefore... I repost
    The Rock
    Federal Way, WA
    "On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my Country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. "

    This decision has no honor.
    It ignores one's duty to God.
    It does not help other people.
    It is morally contorted.

    Bye bye Boy Scouts as we have known it for over 100 years!

  • BCA Murrieta, CA
    April 19, 2013 6:49 p.m.

    "How many homosexual 12 year old boys have you known? Zero for me and I suspect that is true for most people"

    Because of the social stigma of being gay, it takes maturity beyond the years of a 12 year old to not only come to terms with his sexuality but gather the courage to confront the prejudice of many people. It is easier for young gays to play along by pretending to be something they are not. My son started liking boys at the same time his friends starting liking girls. He hid all of this until he was 19. Because of his courage, he confronted his situation at that age.

    BSA is fighting for its life and this is how they are choosing to do it. Its fate will actually be decided when the church decides how it will react to this change.

  • Bloodhound Provo, UT
    April 19, 2013 5:51 p.m.

    I must admit that I'm at a loss to understand how someone can claim accepting homosexuality is a win for Christianity. Homosexuality is strongly condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. Should we accept adulterers, liars, thieves, etc. Since many people have a propensity to do these things, we must accept them, right? The world we live in is simply unbelievable.

  • paintandestroy Richmond/Cache, UT
    April 19, 2013 5:17 p.m.

    Kids struggling with there sexuality are just that, as they reach adulthood they will have choices to make but as kids they need to be supported and given good opportunities.

    Openly Gay scout leaders? Not the role models I want taking an interest in my boys

    I think given the situation this is a compromise I can support

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    April 19, 2013 5:04 p.m.

    Time for the Church to stand for something here and walk away from BSA.
    Duty to God, here we come.

  • byu rugby Crystal Lake, IL
    April 19, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    The 3% tail wagging the 97% dog. Nobody is preventing the deviants from forming their own youth program. Their only desire is to tear down anything that threatens them. The survey results indicate that the change in the ban will result in a 10 to 1 loss to gain ratio in membership. This whole deal is about pressure the corporate sponsors on the national board are fealing from special interest groups. In the end, it's the money not, honor. So, the BSA will have money, no honor, and fewer members. It will be a dead organization within ten years. And, the deviants won't lift a finger to save it.

    What is really making me crazy is that my perception is that the LDS church is sitting on the fence with a damp finger held up in the air. I guess popularity and acceptance really is more important that values.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    @AlanSutton
    "But this new policy would say it's OK for a boy to choose to engage in homosexual acts when he is still a boy, something that Scouting should never encourage or condone."

    Uh... no. It's saying that people who have same-sex attractions would be allowed. It's not like current rules encourage hetersexual sex acts, it just allows those with opposite-sex attractions.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    April 19, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    @allansutton
    I do not mean to be disrepectful but rather give you some percpective of how your comment sounds to those of us that do not share your beleifs so with that said. This "policy" is bad because it
    puts religion into the Scout program. Boys of scouting age should not be encouraged to decide whether they are religous or not. If they want to choose that lifestyle when they come of age, in this country they may make that choice. But this new policy would say it's OK for a boy to choose to engage in religous acts when he is still a boy, something that Scouting should never encourage or condone.

    @mapledon
    actually I think your comment actually speaks very loudly of what kind of feelings and attitudes you are "filled" with perhaps its not others you need worry about.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    April 19, 2013 4:33 p.m.

    I guess basket waving will become more popular

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    MapleDon
    Springville, UT

    Can a Buddhist, who does not believe in Romans or Corinthians, be a scout?

  • infoman Cedar Hills, UT
    April 19, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    It's not just the leaders I would be concerned about. I wouldn't want my boys going camping with openly gay boys any more than I'd want them going camping with girls.

    Beyond that, even if the organization accepts openly gay boys, that doesn't mean the other boys will accept them, and you're also potentially putting kids into temptation and then expecting them not to act on it, which seems awfully dangerous.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    April 19, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    patriot vet
    Cedar City, UT
    One of the commenters used the term "PC"(Politically Correct).

    What our nation is moving toward with the gay/homosexual liberation is "CC": Constitutionally Correct.

    _________

    Our nation is moving in a direction on many fronts that is incorrect. Especially by those that seek to change the Constitution because they can't have their own way.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    April 19, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    The many "let's just get along" comments that have been made are a reflection of decades of conditioning our society to stand for nothing. Those people claiming they are standing for something must not understand the history, rules, oaths, or laws of scouting.

    Keeping oneself morally staight still means something to a lot of us. To you, that's old-fashioned and outdated.

    Many in our society have been conditioned to regard morality as subjective and to label anyone standing for that pesky old Word of God as hate filled. And those quoting scripture, give me a break. While you're reading, look up Romans 1:26-29, 1 Corinthians 6:9, etc.

    This is sad. If this passes, scouting has lost its meaning. But this should be expected in the grand efforts of the fundamental transformation of America.

  • AlanSutton Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    This "policy" will is bad because it puts sexual matters into the Scout program. Boys of scouting age should not be encouraged to decide whether they are homosexuals or not. If they want to choose that lifestyle when they come of age, in this country they may make that choice. But this new policy would say it's OK for a boy to choose to engage in homosexual acts when he is still a boy, something that Scouting should never encourage or condone.

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    April 19, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    One of the commenters used the term "PC"(Politically Correct).

    What our nation is moving toward with the gay/homosexual liberation is "CC": Constitutionally Correct. As we've seen since 1787, various groups (non-landowning white men, slave men, women, American Indians, blacks in general, children have struggled, but eventually acquired consitutional rights to be equal. It is now time for us to equalize, liberate , accept our fellow citizens that are gay.

    Americans should not be afraid or penalized by expressing their personal culture, ancestry, lifestyle.

    I am LDS and active. I don't know of any gay people personally, although the statistics say thet some of my friends or aquaintenances are gay. But, they, like all the rest of us, live under the protection of the Constitution. It is time they also receive the rights they have earned.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    April 19, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    "On my honor, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my Country and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. "

    This decision has no honor.
    It ignores one's duty to God.
    It does not help other people.
    It is morally contorted.

    Bye bye Boy Scouts

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    April 19, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    Anytime you say sexual orientation, you have fallen into a trap. There is a huge, huge difference between performing homosexual acts and feeling a sexual attraction towards the same gender. I am adamantly opposed to the Boys Scouts embracing teenagers (or adults) who are performing homosexual acts and are thinking there is nothing wrong with that. I am adamantly in favor of the Boy Scouts embracing teenagers (and adults) who feel a sexual attraction towards the same gender, but choose not to act on it.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 19, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    re 3grandslams
    Iowa City, IA

    I shouldn't skip the Bible's condemnation of Homosexuality? I wasn't discussing the merits or de-merits of homosexuality, so there was no need to include it. I was only discussing what should be our proper reaction towards it.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    April 19, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    re:cjb

    If you're going to throw the bible around don't skip its clear condemnation of adultery and homosexuality.

    Your recommendation to read and apply the bible only works with people who have never read it. Sexual immorality including lustful thoughts, adultery, fornication, homosexuality etc. are all condemned and clearly define those behaviors as candidates for repentance.

    Remember the 1st great commandment is to love God, not to rewrite his Gospel.

  • HS Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    Patriot
    We all knew my 12 year old Mormon nephew was gay at this age. He was loved and adored by his family. He is now 37 and been with the same partner for 15 years. He's a great relative who pays his taxes, contributes to the community and has many non-gay friends. He and many of other family members have since left the Mormon church. That same story can be told by thousands of others. Time to come out of the dark ages.

  • Way of the Warrior ARLINGTON, WA
    April 19, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    I believe this is a step in the right direction; however, I also believe that good choices should be made for the right reasons. I hope the Boy Scout organization is not doing this because they feel outside pressure from corporations or gay rights groups, but are doing this because they have a fundamental understanding that barring someone from their organization SIMPLY on the basis of their sexual orientation is not morally right (however, as a private organization it certainly is their prerogative). If sexual purity is an aim of the Boy Scout organization, they can certainly put in place rules against homosexual BEHAVIOR, and remove individuals from their organization that violate those rules.

    What's most disheartening about politics is that it has the tendency to dehumanize people and skew reality. Each person on this earth is a beloved son or daughter of God. Our individual value and worth is greater than any of us can imagine. Could you honestly look someone in the eye who you knew was a good person (maybe even your own son) and tell them they are no longer welcome or worth anything upon finding out their sexual orientation was homosexual?

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    April 19, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    To not allow homosexual men to be scout leaders doesn't demonize them any more than not allowing heterosexual men to be girl scout leaders demonizes them. It's just common sense. I don't know if any of my fellow scouts were homosexual when I was a boy. It wasn't an issue. But, I'm sure my folks would have been upset if one of our leaders was a homosexual. The boy scouts have made the right call on this.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 19, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    any youth who is stuggling with same sex attraction in the LDS church can now at least know he can participate with the other boys ...in a restricted fashion of course. I do feel the church has been clear with its gay members and the word is you are welcome in the church and the Lord loves you. A 12 or 13 year old boy needs all the love and support he can get with all the things he made be stuggling with in his life and being rejected isn't something he needs.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 19, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    This is a strange thing to do for BSA. I say strange because the real issue is not with the boys but with the adults. How many homosexual 12 year old boys have you known? Zero for me and I suspect that is true for most people. However if there were an openly gay 12-13 year old I suspect special accomidations would still have to be made for him on camp outs and other situations where the boys were all together - sleeping or showering etc... I appalud BSA for keeping the ban on gay adult leaders and I suspect the LDS church will most likely keep is ties with BSA since the church doesn't ban homeosexual membership.

  • SportsChemistry ENGLEWOOD, CO
    April 19, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    I’m not so upset at the BSA for allowing openly gay scouts into the program as I am that it appears they did it because they couldn’t handle the pressure. The supreme court had ruled in their favor. The had the law on their side. It wasn’t until their sponsors started backing out last year that they decided to reconsider. Essentially, they caved to the almighty dollar. And it wasn’t for the sake of the troops either, which are self-sustaining. It was (at least in my view) a decision made by the administration for the administration, not a change to allow greater access to more boys. They are nothing but a bunch of sellouts.

  • HS Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    Glad to see the BSA finally stopping the immoral policy of discrimination, prejiduce and hate. A victory for Christanity. They'll now get my financial support.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 19, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    Re MapleDon

    You are wrong. With this change people ARE standing up for something. The 2nd greatest commandment, i.e. 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

    You need to read the 4 gospels in the New Testament. Jesus often made it a point to associate and show love and concern for what were considered the dregs of society, the outcasts, 'the sinners'.

    Repent and improve. Open your heart and in this instance, the Bible.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 19, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    This is exactly the solution I would have chosen. Young gay males are in desperate need of acceptance. Also it doesn't make good sense to have leaders of ANY youth group (who goes on campouts) who are sexually attracted to the youth. Most could handle the temptation, the few who can't make this a wise rule.

    With this change, the scouts now need to emphasize the golden rule.

  • mattmo Gallatin, MO
    April 19, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    OK, if you are obeying the Scout Oath or Promise this should not be an issue if you are sexually involved with any sex you are not obeying the Scout Oath now if you have those desires and bridle them until marriage you would be good to go. So why are we trying to make this an issue?

  • The Reader Layton, UT
    April 19, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    It is time for those who are morally opposed to the gay lifestyle to leave the Boy Scouts. What is wrong will always be wrong no matter what laws countries, States, or cities may enact. The gay life stye is as much a choice as living with a person of another sex without marriage is a choice. We all have our agency. We may all exercise our agency. None of us can change the consequence or our choices. That is up to the God who gave us life and placed us on this earth and gave us agency. We do not get to choose the the consequence of the choices we make with our God given agency.

  • HappyHeathen Puyallu, Wa.
    April 19, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    Looking back at my time in the Scouts there were two boys who later came out as gay from our troop. One kid was from a family that was supportive and pretty much normal. The other kid had alcoholic parents who paid little or no attention to him. Both guys were popular and good Scouts. Neither were focused on sex and probably struggling with their sexuality then and beyond their Scouting experience. Scouting helped them both become better citizens and gave them a sense of belonging which the one kid really really needed. To me, all our kids are important, even the gay ones.

    Jim n' Puyallup

  • sky2k1 Provo, UT
    April 19, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    I feel like this is probably the best solution. I'm sure being a gay youth is hard, and so hopefully this will help lessen that. But I do agree to keep the ban on gay leaders. Not because they'll force the gay agenda on kids, but because I wouldn't be comfortable with it -- I wouldn't want my sons doing overnight campouts and whatnot with female leaders, just like I wouldn't be comfortable with my daughters doing the same activities with male leaders. Just my two cents anyways.

  • American First Merced, CA
    April 19, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Really?! Since when is it a good idea to further distract already hard to reach 12 year old boys with sexual preference?! Why don't the boy scouts incorporate 'Don't Ask Don't Tell'?! A completely common sense approach for young boys...but then again common sense and morality are relative in an foundationless immoral society.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2013 12:04 p.m.

    @ MapleDon

    Why would you want to punish or, discriminate against, children? Shame on you.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    April 19, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    If this gets approved, I will not give another dime to the Scouting program.