I think we should let immigrant families stay.
@ bill in nebraska. Keep up the good work. It seems you are greatly
outnumbered in the comments here, but don't lose hope. So many
here are willing to throw the first stone. Amnesty is a form of justice and
mercy. How many securities fraud and environmental cases go away through the
payment of fines? Judges routinely exercise forms of amnesty everyday. The
amnesty in the immigration bill is far from an easy path. We are talking 13
years plus the guarantee of payment of all taxes (that should help fill the
coffers). Imagine all the individuals now paying taxes and more importantly
businesses withholding taxes. I served my mission in Utah in the
Hispanic community and worked with many families who joined the church after
arriving in Utah. Fortunately, with the help of good supporting members
(obviously not the type who are posting here) welcomed these new members and
supported them. I call on many of you to be more charitable and
remember that amnesty is not a freebie, it satisfies both mercy and justice.
And, yes I believe also in e-verify for all businesses.
"Bill in Nebraska:"I wonder how many of you have actually known an
illegal alien or even could recognize one."It's impossible
to know, mainly because the federal government has decided that you can't
ask for ID's... Something about the Democrats (and their leader, Obama)
going after the Hispanic vote."Many are honest individuals that
are looking for a better way of life than what they had."How can
you call them 'honest individuals?' Honest individuals don't
break laws. Besides, we have millions of unemployed Americans looking for work
that your 'honest individuals' are here to grab up."Many of them know that if they are caught they will have to go
back."Not under Obama's reign."Most try to
not to do anything that brings attention to them."I think what
you mean is... they try their best to not get caught stealing ID's."As Christ said, 'Ye that are without sin, cast the first
stone.'What Christ didn't say is, since some sin you are
free to do likewise.
@Bill in NebraskaJesus did not break any civil laws,The
laws he supposedly broke were religious laws, laws which he had come to replace
with a higher law. By the way we have no problem with those who
immigrated legally, and have no problem giving them a helping hand.The others must satisfy justice, and mercy can not rob justice.
So now I'm perverting the ways of the Lord because I'm calling you for
being judgemental of these immigrants. There are between 10-12 million illegal
immigrants in this country. Many are here to obtain a better way of life from
what they were experiencing in the country from which they came. They came from
poverty and are still many still in poverty. They are doing minimal tasks that
most AMERICANS refuse to do so as working in the fields and meat packing plants
among many other minimal jobs most Americans find dehumanizing. They are low
pay. Many of you who are so judgemental wouldn't be caught dead doing the
jobs they are doing. Taking jobs away from those seeking a job, NOT.Christ said to render onto Ceasar what belonged to Ceasar. He healed on the
Sabbath, though it was common knowledge that such a thing was WRONG. He even
mentioned working to pull a wagon out of the mud on the Sabbath, but the law so
know. Man made laws didn't apply to the Savior. At the time of the Savior
one could go from country to country. Know one checked their PAPERS.
To "Bill in Nebraska" ask yourself this. Would Jesus break the law,
even if he did not agree with it?Are we supposed to be like Jesus or
not?If you say we are to be like Jesus, then we should be like him
ALL the time. We shouldn't break the law, and we should be prepared to pay
the consequence for breaking the law. Jesus didn't break the law, but he
paid the consequence for those who would.Again, Jesus didn't
break laws, and was prepared to pay the price for breaking the law.
@Bill in NebraskaAll of us are "looking for a better life."
This does not give us the right to shoplift or rob a bank. -- if doing so for
one's child. "Ask yourself what Jesus would do then act
accordingly."Jesus would say "Repent -- and Sin No More.
Stop perverting the right ways of the Lord.
For some reason we continue to cling to the idea that the U. S. has the infinite
capacity to provide for all the third-world populations on the planet. Some
obviously fail to see the connection between having millions more on welfare and
subsidies plus exerting downward pressure on wages and job availability, and the
fact that we now have OFFICIAL Federal debt of nearly $17,000,000,000,000 and
annual spending exceeding income of over $1,000,000,000,000. Where do you think
the money is going to come from, and how will that affect those of us who have
to work and pay taxes? It's time for a heavy dose of reality, and stop
penalizing those who actually obey laws, follow prescribed parameters, and then
end up paying for the whole party.
@Bill in NebraskaHow people judge others is not relevant to how a
court judges a person who has broke the law. Those affected by
illegal immigration did not violate laws, yet they are the ones being punished.
SLars: Yes, to all your questions. I've known several families.
I've faced it. I feel that until you have walked in their shoes and seen
what they have to face then you are in no place to judge. I love how so many on
this board are judge, jury and executioner. Forget about the justice
you've handed out. Ask yourself what Jesus would do then act accordingly.
He wouldn't in no way toss them out but since all of you have, forgive me
for living and serving in the military.
@Bill in NebraskaI am pretty sure illegal immigration is not the
same as adultry or fornication.Even Christ advocated following the
civil laws, "render unto Caesar..." I can have compassion
and empathy for them but justice must be meet for illegal actions.The faith leaders are in no way telling us to usurp our laws.And
in no way should their illegal behavior trump those that followed the law no
matter what sad sack story they have.
@Bill in NebraskaHave you known someone who had their id stolen?
social security number? lost their job, and had their marriage end in divorce
over money trouble, the number one cause of divorce? Had wages depressed? Had a
career in construction, until business destroyed the ability to make an honest
living? Have you ever had a bad business deal, or accident, only to find out the
person is in the country illegally? Try walking in America's shoes. We have
legal immigration, we should not honor illegal immigration. We have a fair way
of bringing people here, 4.2 million in 2011 legally. People here
illegally have committed multiple felonies. None of us are perfect, that is not
relevant to punishing those who commit crimes.
I wonder how many of you have actually known an illegal alien or even could
recognize one. Profiling is what many of you would do to even locate one. I
have known some. I have met them in many different avenues of my work. Many
are honest individuals that are looking for a better way of life than what they
had. Many are malnourished, poor both temporally and spiritual, they are
uneducated to a degree but they want something better. Many of them know that
if they are caught they will have to go back. How many of you know that most
times only a few have actual families here? They send their money back to their
parents. Most try to not to do anything that brings attention to them.
Unfortunately, some things such as partying and finding a friend leads many to
get caught. They buy many times an auto that is basically good enough to get
them back to work.As Christ said, "Ye that are without sin, cast
the first stone." Are any of you perfect? If you were you wouldn't be
here. You would have been translated a long time ago.
Just what we need. More legislation from the federal government. Of course
Orrin will jump right on this. His whole mentality is that the answer to every
issue is more laws to restrict people. Last week he saw a child bleeding badly.
His first reaction was to call his buddy Harry Reid and ask for an emergency
session of the senate to authorize the use of a band aide. If you don't
"get" my sarcasm, NO we don't need any more freaking laws.
I have a plan to keep families together.First, we make sneaking into
the US akin to breaking into Fort Knox.Second, we give deportees the
option to have their family sent with them.Third, we take the
welfare recipients that are able bodied and set up works programs so that they
have to work for their benefits. They can be sent to farms, construction
companies, or simply handed a broom and told to sweep the gutters in a
Well heck yes, and by the way let's allow the families of the illegals who
are already here bring in those family members who are still in the old country.
Keeping families together? That's what this issue is all about? Really?Well then, why didn't you say this from the beginning? Unfortunately you didn't.The truth is this is all about
gain...and I'll prove it.I'd be willing to grant the
illegal immigrants amnesty on three very simple conditions.1. They
can't vote for 25 years.2. They can't change religions for 25
years.3. Employers must pay them at least minimum wage.Now, if
this is all about loving these dear brothers and sisters and making sure
they're keeping their families together, then this is a fair compromise.
They've broken laws and we're granting them a huge benefit. There
needs to be a price.If you're offended by this proposal, my
guess is that it would disallow the gain you were hoping for.
The best way to preserve families is to stay in your home country until you can
enter another country and raise your families legally. Otherwise you stand a
chance of causing major problems for yourself and your family.America's immigration laws are not broken, they just have not been
enforced. Proper enforcement over the past several years would have saved many
costs to the taxpayers and many problems for those sneaking into this country.
Lets give these immigrants the same considerations we have given ourselves.We don't throw ourselves off land we got through
'questionable' means. We stay on land we got through broken Indian
treaties. We took land from Mexico through a war of agression, then allowed
ourselves amnesty by paying money to Mexico, (call it a fine) to make it right.
Let us at least give to these illegal immigrants or 'land
grabbers' the same considerations we have given ourselves.Let
us allow them to stay if they like us are willing to pay a fine to keep what
they have taken.
Excellent post, SLars.
Don't fall for it. Obama already gave immediate families waivers in
January. I wish they had the compassion and humanity to tell their
people to come here legally. Ignoring compassion for Americans with stolen IDS,
stolen social security numbers, lost jobs and depressed wages is deplorable. No one is breaking a family, although apart, like many American
families, they are still a family, nothing is broken except the law.
"Faith leaders call for immigration reforms that preserve families"Families can be preserved in other countries. The US is not the only
country that can keep families together.Stop blaming America for
breaking up families. We can see through your crocodile tears. If parents are
here illegally, just pack the car with your kids and head home. It's not