Why not start enforcing the current gun control laws and see if it makes a
difference. The proposed law wouldn't have stopped the shooting. In fact
they worked because the shooter attempted to purchase a gun legally and failed
the background check.FYI a Glock pistol was used in the shooting and
not an AR-15. However, the media again ignored the facts and made the argument
about legal simi-automatic rifles.
By the way people "criminals" do not keep laws. No matter how many laws
you pass and how much harder you make it for law abiding citizens to get guns,
you will not stop criminals from getting them. Breaking the law is what they
do!On that same topic, maybe we should pass laws to make it harder for for
law abiding citizens to buy cars. We have way more people killed in auto
accidents then by guns per year. We need to make sure no one who could possibly
drive drunk or distracted can have access to a car.So there will be no
fatalities! Can you all see the stupidity in these laws? The Newtown
shooter broke 41 laws, do you honestly think 1 more would have stopped him?
Discussion, debate, and having a vote IS democratic. What would be the
antithesis of democracy? Why Mr. Lee's bill of course! This brand of
politics runs with the same people who want to 'take back America'.
They can't win using the democratic process so they they use 3rd world,
tyrannical, anarchist methods instead. Folks, if your against 'gun
control', then all felons and the mentally ill should have the same rights
as you to own a machine gun, grenades, anti-air craft weapons and a howitzer.
Or, you are for regulation. You can't have your cake and eat too.
Reasonable laws put in place to mitigate the number children killed our next
massacre is not a violation of constitutional rights. It's democracy
working the way it was intended.
tabuno, I have lived in Salt Lake Valley all my life. I've always owned
guns. I'm not part of your "rural gun culture". I'm part of
the "Urban gun culture". I'm fine with the way the house districts
have been drawn. Living up in Clearfield, you would always be in the northern
I conducted a poll of all Utahans' that I have spoken with and 100% are in
favor of not changing any gun laws. I compared this poll with others that have
been done and determined the margin of error in this poll compared with the
other polls to be less than 0.01%
"I do think there are certain times we should infringe on your freedom,
Mayor Bloombergs power house statement and echoed by the anti gunners I have
read on this forum. "But then liberals always feel your pain unless they
BrandoProvo, UT" the majority of Utahans’ support expanded
background checks"Is the poll you reference the one where only 500
people were polled? The same one referenced in the article. I don't find
500 people to be the majority. Key Research Utah Statewide Voter
Survey, 2013 1st QuarterInterview Dates: January 22, 2013 - January 25,
2013Topline Results and Methodology
Henry Drummond"60,000 gun deaths every year"Where did you
get this number? Could you also break down the type of death by guns? Is this
just a fabrication like when the media and president say 94% of Americans
support gun control(Gun owner registration), when they only poll 500 people.
"low information voters "It is amazing how some feel that
just because other people disagree with, that they must be "low
information".... good grief.... were these "high information" voters
in a special school.... where the secrets to reading other peoples minds was
taught? What in the world makes these people think they are so superior to
those who don't think like them.Both President Monson and
Brother Uchtdorf just last week went to great lengths to discourage this kind of
superiority complex way of thinking.... that only one is right. I have yet to
see a case where insulting your opposition gains you any who believe you case
Anti really has it going today. I hope he identifies his new nation since he
"can't stand" it here any longer. I hear it's nice in Costa
Rica, but haven't actually been there. I hope that wherever he ends up that
they have high speed internet.
It's never going to be enough for these people. they will always take more
and more until there is nothing left and you are just left with all the mental
faculties of a Robot.
Background checks of this kind leads to registration which leads to
confiscation. this happens everytime.
Give me liberty or give me death. I can't stand living in a regime that
used to be a free country 100 years ago and being duped into thinking the regime
is a free country.
Not a failure. Just a huge waste of time, energy and effort.
Senator Lee,Thank you for preventing us from diong the wrong thing. Now
make progress on how to decrease gun violence. It's not enough to just
stand in the doorway, give us a plan to protect those who do not want to be
their own vigilante.
The "low information" lemmings are running to support something that
sounds good, but is a Trojan horse for the left's ultimate goal- gun
confiscation."Universal background checks" are nothing but
thinly disguised universal registration of guns and gun owners. Background
checks are NOT about stopping criminals or prosecuting them, or more than a
handful out of tens of thousands of criminal attempts by crooks to buy guns each
year would be prosecuted, not just ignored. That proves that background checks
are not what backers claim them to be.Even the Toomey Manchin
version is nothing but delayed universal gun REGISTRATION as it allows a central
database of dealer records every three years, even though they ban such a list
at the time the check was run.Sorry, I am not willing to have my
rights taken away on any pretext, even if it is popular with low information
voters or the advocacy media.
I wish Mike Lee would have held onto his financial obligation [house payments}
1/1,000,000th as strongly as he holds onto this.No wonder he
[and other GOP leaders] doesn't want background checks, They probably
couldn't pass one themselves.
"The Gun grabbers love guns, just not in the hands of people or anybody the
deem to be mentally ill."Yep.... and I pretty much agree with
them.You want guns in the hands of the mentally ill?
"....If we feel strongly about what the Forefathers created, let's
follow the rules they established!"______________________________Filibustering is not proscribed by the Constitution. It's
authorized under Senate Rule XXII which can by changed by the Senate itself. The
reason they don't change it is because both sides want it there when their
party is in the minority. It's justified as a check and balance but it in
empowering the minority to obstruct the will of the majority by preventing a
bill from being voted on or even debated, it's also regarded as obstructing
democracy as most Americans see it.
Make no mistake, Mike is not trying to avoid debate. He thrives on it!
He's simple exploiting a loophole where he can possibly stop legislation he
doesn't want with 40% instead of having to convince 50%! I disagree with a
lot of this proposed legislation for some points that I think can be debated.
But, I disagree more with this manipulative 'cheating' of which he
will complain about when the Democrats use it as a minority in the future. If
we feel strongly about what the Forefathers created, let's follow the rules
Lee does not represent Utah. He represents his slef and his dillusions that he
know the Constitution better than anyone else. He is an obstructionist. He does
not even do the job for which he was elected. The only thing he knows is the
word "No!" He needs to be replaced. Bennet and Hatch represent Utah and
the actually work or worked to resolve issues.
The image of Mike Lee that's starting to emerge is as one of those extreme
Republicans who plays to the Rush Limbaugh faction of the party.
So the people who want to take Guns away and yes I say take Guns away because
they are already doing this in New York to veterans and anybody else who has
seen a psychiatrist or has been on medication of any kind in the last 5 years,
are the same people who all have conceal and carry permits, have ran Guns into
mexico to give to the drug cartels and have armed security themselves. The Gun grabbers love guns, just not in the hands of people or anybody the
deem to be mentally ill.
JoeBlowFar East USA, SCNone of the recent mass shootings have been
done with fully automatic weapons.Why do you think that is?8:07 a.m. April 12, 2013=============== BEST answer
ever!Perfect - Cut and Pasted for later!Bravo.That "should" end this whole silly debate, but this sort of
LOGIC, Sound Reasoning, and Common Sense is lost to partisan snips and AM talk
radio show hacks who wind up the paranoid masses.
Well it appears that Mike Lee has officially moved into the realm of demagoguery
and irrationale... yes Mike, please protect me from the perils of universal
background checks. The only people you are trying to protect are
gun manufacturers and their profits.
‘Sen. Lee says effort to stop debate on gun control bill not a
failure’=======‘Sen. Lee says effort to
foreclose on his house for not making payments - avoided by a short sale - not a
I for one am hugely embarrassed that one of our senators would try to prevent
even a discussion from happening on this important piece of legislation.
Whatever your views on the topic, this debate is important and it needs to
happen. Also as the majority of Utahns support expanded background checks, it
is greatly irresponsible of him to try and block this vote. So, Senator Lee,
I'm sorry if you don't like being called an obstructionist. But I say
if the shoe fits...
Not a surprise that even his own partisans muzzled this obstructionist.
Forestall all debate? Forbid any discussion at all? That's what Lee wanted,
and thank heaven he didn't get it. Un-elect Lee in 2016!
I encourage Sen. Lee to continue standing up for freedom and the Constitution.
Too bad we don’t have a lot more politicians with the courage, principles,
and wisdom to do so.
I don't know how the self-proclaimed constitutional scholar reconciles his
position on this when all the while there is any number of arms we cannot bear
because they are illegal to possess - a shoulder-fired missile, let's say.
The large majority of us understand that the 2nd doesn't guarantee the
right to own any weapon we might want to have. So in a way, it's just
splitting hairs when we're talking about restrictions on high-capacity
magazines, and the like. But how significant such a small change might be for
60,000 gun deaths every year and Senator Lee refuses to even talk about
legislation to prevent it. How is that a "success" in any way shape or
Adam Lanza had a gun safe in his bedroom. Investigators also found a card and
check written to Adam to purchase another gun from his mother. He tried to buy
another gun shortly before the massacre, but didn't complete the purchase
because of a 14 day waiting period. On a sad note, Rev Rick
Warren's son purchased the gun he used through the internet. As for the argument that gun control won't stop gun crime:Burglar
alarms don't stop all burglaries. Seatbelt laws don't stop all car
accident deaths. Speed limits don't stop speeding, texting while driving
laws don't stop all texting. Should we repeal these laws?
JoeBlowFar East USA, SCNone of the recent mass shootings have been
done with fully automatic weapons.Why do you think that is?----------Could it be that they have become HIGHLY regulated.
Yes, you can still own one, but the background tests and registrations process
is VERY tenuous.BINGO!
I don't regard background checks as gun control at all.
None of the recent mass shootings have been done with fully automatic
weapons.Why do you think that is?
What I don't understand is why it is so important to shut down discussion
on this important issue. What can Mike (and Orrin) be so afraid of? Are they
concerned that discussion will somehow break through their concrete minds and
change them...thus losing their income from the NRA? The Senate and the
Congress is supposed to be a place for consideration and thoughtful
contemplation. Not place for fear and loathing. What a shame and
embarrassment that our Senators are afraid of debate.
Dear Senator - Please quit participating in the bogging down of our political
process. Many of us share your views on gun control. Many of us do not.
Almost all of us, however, prefer a Congress that works together to give issues
an honest hearing and then takes a vote on what they and their constituents
think is best for the nation. Please be part of a Senate that works together to
get things done rather than one who attempts to silence debate in a way that
will can only deepen the political divide. We have too much to do as a nation
to be caught up in such political pettiness.
Spin city. Holy cow! I guess he revealed the most ardent servants of the NRA.
There is nothing brave or noble about holding your breath. I bet the senator
was known as child of taking his ball, and going home if he started losing at
basketball. So now if you cannot make any rational argument,you just stand up
and waste everyones time.
I stil haven't had anyone explain to me how making sure bad people
don't have easy access to guns through the back ground check process is
creating a constitutional hurdle to owning guns. Yes, checking IDs
to buy alcohol hasn't stopped minors from obtaining what they want on
Friday nights.... but it has made it harder on them. But we don't abandon
ID laws because they can be gotten around either. And having ID laws
doesn't prevent those who are of legal age to drink from obtaining what
ever they want either.Lee and the other NRA surrogates are just
raising red herring issues to slow this down. I applaud their fight to keep gun
access for law abiding citizens....but fighting common sense legislation to make
it harder on the wrong people from buying guns is totally out of touch with most
Americans.Background checks we not prevent any law abiding citizen
from obtaining a weapon.
"why not get the mentally ill off the streets and away from guns? "Of course a great concept. But how do you do it?"His
mother who paid the ultimate price, knew he had a problem yet was not a
responsible gun owner. "In the Newtown shooting, this was the
single biggest breakdown. His mother KNEW her kid had mental issues but chose
to keep accessible guns in the house.She was NOT a responsible gun
owner. We need gun advocates to scream loudly rather than to always defend the
irresponsible actions of gun owners.Instead, we get the mentality
ofAny GunAnywhereAnytimeby Anyone
Not a failure? I bet if the 68-31 vote for cloture had gone the other way, Lee
would be crowing "success" pretty loudly.
The Utah Legislature has gerrymandered U.S. House districts which is at the
center of the gun control debate. By eliminating a urban-suburban district for
diversified legislative districts, the voice of those whose primary cultural
environment isn't a rural gun culture, the State Legislature has deprived
those of us with much different social living environments a voice in Congress.
The guns used in the Newtown murders were legally owned weapons. The person
using them was mentally ill. Instead of gun control which has never worked
anywhere in the country it has been implemented, why not get the mentally ill
off the streets and away from guns? His mother who paid the ultimate
price, knew he had a problem yet was not a responsible gun owner. Maybe some
education about gun safety in the home would have prevented him from ever
killing all these children. Very sad outcome which could have been prevented.
Background checks would have done nothing to prevent it though because they
weren't his guns.
"...Sen. Lee says effort to stop debate on gun control bill not a
failure...".You either make it happen or you make excuses.Lee has chosen to make excuses.
68 - 13Sen. Lee is correct about one thing...Passing
this is NOT a faliure at all, but the beginning of a huge success.Keep going!Close the loops of weapon sales to criminals and
mentally insane, and Universal BackGorund Checks![Sorry
Senator, you are a very small fringe minorty]