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Comments about ‘Mormon pioneer tale similar to those of other immigrants’

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Published: Tuesday, April 9 2013 10:25 a.m. MDT

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lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Who is George Handley?

is he related to rachel madcow, joy behar, or keith olbermann?

Why not just post comments by Lilburn Boggs?

micawber
Centerville, UT

@ lost in DC:

I believe he is a professor of humanities at BYU. So, just like Lilburn Boggs, I guess.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Mormon pioneer tale similar to those of other immigrants"

Even if that were true [which it decidedly is not], why would it obligate me to support the modern open-borders crowd?

The real question is not whether modern immigration abuse is similar to any past abuses, but whether there is any history of past immigration abuse that ended happily for the non-immigrants.

Mormon immigration to Utah didn't work out so well for the Native Americans, did it?

Mad Hatter
Provo, UT

Re: lost in DC West Jordan, UT

Obviously Handley doesn't reflect your views. However, he does reflect the contradiction in the historical narrative and current thinking in the Beehive State.

When one discusses intolerance today, people in Utah seem to have selective amnesia and forget how things were before Mormon's became the "model religion". Except for the fact that they don't play too well on the national political scene, their conservative social views have led them to embrace a political party that wants nothing to do with them than have their vote. The state has shifted from being conservative democrat to extremely conservative republican.

A story needs to be written about this right-ward political shift and an almost incestuous infatuation with the John Birch Society and extreme, conservative thinking. Although that move finds favor with many readers here, it is very different from the communal nature of the early pioneers. Perhaps that is because once some people get through the door and get what they want, they slam it closed to keep others from gaining access and competing with them for the available rewards. It's an old story of immigration in this country.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

micawber,
association with BYU does not cut it with me, I graduated from the university Brigham Young founded, not the one named after him.:)

It would have been good journalism had the DN indicated who this joker was. I guess that's expecting too much.

hatter,
it was not a desire for the ideals of the republican party that caused Utah to be among the reddest of the red, it was the moral decay of the dem party that forced us away from the dems.

ronk-sandy
SANDY, UT

I am appalled by some of the name-calling and closed minded comments that people have posted on this article. My grandparents came to this country from Europe in the late 1920's for similar reasons, looking for a "land of opportunity." Later they joined the LDS Church and considered this State their final home. Even though we do have a significant problem in this country with managing legal immigration, that is still no good reason to be so cold and derogatory towards others. If you disagree with the author or the Utah Compact, I suggest that you try and do it respectfully with a good argument for your case. The bitterness we can do without, it only cause others to fight back, whick gets us nowhere.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

ronk-sandy

Why do you put such restrictions on people who disagree with the Utah Compact and not expect the same from the people who disagree with our national government?

Fitness Freak
Salt Lake City, UT

Did the Mormon pioneers accept WIC?

How about food stamps, or welfare?

As we travel around the state, why don't we have people speaking: German, Italian, Swedish, Russian? I wonder how long the schoolteachers of 1910 would have continued teaching kids who refused to learn English?

Before the 1930's, when the country was forming both on an industrial scale and a cultural basis we needed MASS amounts of immigrants and things worked out well because we were agrarian based.
That is no longer the case.
The argument made in this article is one of the weakest that the open borders crowd makes but every now and then they like to resurrect it.

Two weeks ago dozens of immigrants became naturalized citizens. They came the LEGAL way so don't tell me it can't be done.

We need to have compassion for our LEGAL citizen neighbors who are out of work, many of them displaced by labor that will work for substandard wages.
Where's the compassion for them?

Unethica employers, of course, don't need to pay the real labor rate because they can avoid all the pesky employment taxes and workers compensation issues.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Were the "Mormons" viewed as being here illegally? What does "viewed as" mean? Was there an existing law that prohibited "Mormons" or anyone else from entering the Great Salt Lake Valley? Where is a copy of that law? I can find no listing of any such law although I spent less than an hour searching on the Internet.

Today, coming into the United States without permission is illegal. Then, entering the Mexican Territory from the United States was not illegal. Those who enter illegal have broken laws. The "Mormons" broke no laws.

Before extending "mercy" to someone for having broken a law, shouldn't a law exist?

Star Bright
Salt Lake City, Ut

As a legal immigrant who also worked in an American Consulate I saw how difficult it was for Europeans to come to the U.S. legally.

The problem with open borders in the south is the drug cartel is operating in the U.S. If you don't believe it talk to some of the sherrifs in the border states. Terrorists are also walking across the border. I guess you can guess they are joining with the drug cartels. Is this the country we want?

And you really don't want to start an arguement as to why most Mormons left the democratic party.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

The current administration's solution to the problem of illegal immigration is to keep the job market so depressed that coming here for a job is futile. Of course this hurts the citizens too.

What is kind and respectful about that?

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

More propaganda, designed to persuade us to believe that looking the other way at illegal immigration, and welcoming persons into this country who disdain it, its sovereignty, and its laws, is the right way, irrespective of the suffering it causes society at large.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

The pioneers entered Mexico without leave from the Mexican government. Illegal. When the US annexed the area, the pioneers were then squatters who paid nothing for the land they lived on. Illegal. Not until 1862 with the Homestead Act was it legal to do what they had done on Federal property.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Not until 1862 with the Homestead Act was it legal to do what they had done on Federal property."

Yeah. So?

The only relevance discusison of a purported past abuse could possibly have to the current conversation would be to illuminate whatever good results open-borders proponents claim we -- current residents -- should expect from permitting the abuses to continue.

So, to the liberal, open-borders crowd -- what positives to indigenous Native Americans did the 1847 Mormon immigration produce? And can we expect the same benefits from current immigration law abuses?

SLars
Provo, UT

"soon to be contested"

Look up the dates of the Mormon battalion and the Mexican-American war. Why are people lying about this, when it's in the history books?

Utahns should be more compassion to the victims, not the criminals. We have ignored the 23 million looking for full time work.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Those who pretend that the Mormon Pioneers were illegal aliens show their historical illiteracy. There was no immigration law pertaining to the area they settled when they came here.

Eventually when US immigration restrictions became the law in Utah (when Utah became a State)... Mormon leaders changed their policy of encouraging members to come to Zion and encouraged members to stay where they are (expressedly because of United States Immigration restrictions).

No... the Pioneers were NOT illegal aliens. And anybody who tells you they were doesn't know their historical facts and is pushing an agenda that is not supported by the facts.

It's a matter of law and facts people... not inuendo and anti-mormon rhetoric! If the pioneers were here illegally... they would have been prosecuted! Some territorial leaders were looking for things to prosecute the mormons for... if they were here illegally, they could have deported them. And yet... there's not a single case of deportation. They did NOT come to the United States illegally. And there was no Mexican immigration law pertaining to the Utah territory at the time as well.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

It's a good thing he's a prophesor of HUMANITIES and not HISTORY. Because his Historical facts are WAY off. The pioneers were not here illegally. There was no immigration law for this are when they came.

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