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5-month-old boy shot to death in American Fork home

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  • the truth Holladay, UT
    April 8, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    @one old man

    It's not the gun it's the person.

    Guns were pervasive before all these gun laws, and we did not have all these problems, perhaps it would better to ask why?

    Progressive trying to turn our country into secular "progressive" country has not been a good thing.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    April 7, 2013 5:13 p.m.

    Most Truthful and Patriotic: I wouldn't know. I am not a member of the NRA, but you do make a point. They politizie every time they can. Shame on them for doing it. All I do know is a child is dead, shot by his father. This is tragic and sad to me, regardless of my political leanings.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    April 7, 2013 3:34 p.m.

    The problem with gun control nuts is their short-sightedness.

    Are we to believe this crazy man could not or would not have been able to kill a 5 month old without a firearm?

    Having more and more stricter and egregious background checks all about taking guns away,

    all about control,

    by disarming the the people.

    Where do background checks end? Do we the people want government to be able compile lists of guns and gun owners?

    Is not the 2nd amendment the people's check against government?

    Do the people not have a right to self defense even from the government?

    Already we stories of more and more people being deprived of their second amendment rights,

    If you inherit a gun you become a felon.

    If check yourself into mental hospital for medicine correction your guns are taken away.

    If Your son has picture taken with gun, or tells teacher they want own a gun, the parents guns are taken away.

    During katrina, your guns were taken away, you could not protect your own property!

    IF a child draws a picture of gun, makes gun out of pop tart, or pretend having a gun, they are branded, punished, humiliated.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 7, 2013 6:57 a.m.

    The issue seems to have morphed into a gun debate. My take, I seem to recall the Lafferty brothers doing another senseless crime without a firearm. It's the person, not the weapon. Oh, cars killed some 30,000+ people last year, maybe half involved impaired drivers. Need to control alcohol and drugs - oh, we tried alcohol didn't we? Drugs seem to be gaining the upper hand, so maybe we focus on the dramatic and unusual because we accept and even promote the common more "accepted" means by which the foolish and evil wind up killing others and sometimes themselves.

    A sad story about a very sad person whose values and outlook led him to an act that caused a lot of people a lot of pain. Maybe we should outlaw the precursors of his value system - literature? Entertainment? Associates? Parents? All of which led him to kill his son. Maybe it's just his fault and he chose to do this act and should be held accountable for same.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 6:36 p.m.

    mo, it's not hard at all for me. As a trained and experienced former law enforcement officer I carried a gun to work for a long time. But how about this: You say we have
    the right of personal security (life);
    the right of personal liberty; and,
    the right of private property.."

    I agree. But how can you rationalize the way guns deprive so many people of those three rights?

    Here's one for you. In 2011, the FBI's homicide records indicated firearms were used in a total of 8583 murders.

    ALL OTHER weapons accounted for only half that number - or 4081.

    In a nation in which firearms are virtually unlimited, in which almost anyone may obtain one (as it now stands) without any background checks or required training, isn't continuing with the same madness simply madness?

    Universal background checks may help stem some of that storm. Responsible, properly educated people with good histories will still be permitted to possess and use them. The irrational fear and paranoia being spread by the NRA and others is nothing more than insanity.

    Arguing that children may be killed in other ways does not lessen any tragedy.

  • Elcapitan Ivins, UT
    April 6, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    A sad story brought on by a child having been raised in a violent society. Fifty years ago we never heard of such violent acts against children. Society has changed for the worse. This is a tradgedy for this family. Remember them in your prayers. We live in the Last Days. Homeowners lock up your guns. Keep them out of the hands of mentally ill people like this young man.

    The NRA has nothing to do with these acts of violence. Gun safety and responsibles ownership under the second amdndment is promoted first of all by the NRA.

  • BASavage Orem, UT
    April 6, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    I feel for the family in this tragedy. The whole emphasis on the tool used to kill this little one is very misplaced. Far more children are killed by things other than firearms in this age group, particularly with children being left alone in bathtubs. The press ignores these reports as that it would frighten mothers. However guns are considered evil. As others have said this depressed and most likely drug addicted father would have done a similar act with some other weapon or tool.

    FYI, reports from the CDC show that roughly 150 children ages 0-14 die from fire arms annually. Over 3,000 per year die in car crashes because their parents don't properly restrain their children Yet where is the public out cry like on this sight to stop the use of cars because they kill children. More common household items are used in household murders and suicides than firearms. Knives being the most common tool to kill.

    Lets leave the mechanism alone but hope and pray for peace for this family.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    @ old man I forgot your other question. How about and I know this is difficult for you. "We hold these truths to be self-evident...all men are...
    endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."

    "What are those unalienable rights with which we are endowed? They may be described in many ways, but English jurist Sir William Blackstone wrote in 1766, ".these may be reduced to three principal articles:"

    the right of personal security (life);
    the right of personal liberty; and,
    the right of private property.." And along came the Bill of Rights

    Does that work for you?

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    April 6, 2013 2:10 p.m.

    Do you think this 5 month old would have been safe if his father had not owned a gun? Of course not. This father would have simply chosen another method to kill. This is not a gun issue, it is a mental health issue.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    mo -- yes, Alexander Hamilton did write in Federalist papers # 29 that a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training". Meaning people not guns!

    And, yes, it is the people and not the guns who need to be regulated. So please explain to me how regulating people who may obtain guns through a universal background check and the types of weapons they may buy is regulating GUNS and not people?

    Again, you have fallen for the nonsensical raunchy rhetoric of the NRA.

  • Cleetorn Fuaamotu, Tonga
    April 6, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    To Midwest Mom & others:
    Guns are not any more “hazardous” than the broom you push for cleaning your house. The problem lies with the user, not the object. If you go off your rocker, break the broom in half and use the sharp end on your family, it’s not the fault of the broom handle.
    Yes, we should “keep guns (and other weapons) out of the hands of the mentally ill, felons, illegal purchasers, and others” but keeping them away from everybody is not the solution. When government passes laws only peaceable people obey, they are simply leaving those people at the mercy of violent predators.
    While it is incredibly unfortunate this little life was taken through this evil act, it is the fault of the father, not the weapon. If it were your child, would you hate the gun and excuse the mentally incompetent perpetrator because he felt this was the only “real” solution he could comprehend? I think not.
    Place blame where it really belongs. Find realistic solutions so the healing can begin. Don’t give in to knee-jerk reactions that fall to an all-or-nothing mentality.

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    April 6, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    What a sad story - another one where an inocent human being is taken by someone with mental problems whether depression, etc. He would have had to be mentally imbalanced to ever consider killing a tiny baby...my goodness what he is going to face when he meets with the Lord. I certainly wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Shame on him for brutally taking this precious baby's life.

  • ronnie sandy, utah
    April 6, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    The sad thing is we promote the right to have guns in order to protect our families, but unfortunately a far greater likelihood is the misuse of guns. The statistics of death by guns of our children is horrendous. The use of guns that kill our children via murder, accidental death, or suicide far out weigh the times that guns are used to prevent murder. I adamantly disagree that having more guns will add any measure of protection to our society.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    April 6, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    leave out the negative people. I feel bad for this family and they need to be healed. Rest in peace little one.

  • jayhawker kearns, UT
    April 6, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    I have a hard time understanding how you people can exercise your constitutional right to voice your opinion on firearms at a sad time like this. Now is not the time to pound the table about your gun agenda.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    April 6, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    What does it matter where mom is? Surely you didn't want a double murder before the attempted suicide.

    A gun wasn't the only method he could have used to harm his child and himself.

  • wYo8 Rock Springs, WY
    April 6, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    Midwest mom when is it appropiate to not have a gun or to have a gun. Is this a day to day thing. The gun did not kill the person. The dad did. What if he had stabbed the baby to death would you be clling for a ban on knives. Bad or sick people do bad things. Until You and everyone that needs to get off their butts, be the parent that is going help over come the failures in the home. Nothing will stop the failures of a sick society. This includes me so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. No other success can compoinsate for the failure in the home. We don't have the guts to blame bad parents, movies, the moral decline of society, etc. It is soo much easier to just blame the gun.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    @ old man . "WELL-REGULATED" as in the Constitutional Meaning, was in common use during Revolutionary Times. It was "the property of something being in proper working order." In other words, "well-regulated" was "calibrated correctly" or "functioning as expected". NOT REGULATING, OVERSEEING or LIMITING THE USE OF something. "Alexander Hamilton in Federalist papers # 29 indicated a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training". Meaning people not guns!

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 6, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    Does anyone know where the mother is? I have no doubt this guy had reached a level of depression that he thought the solution was to take his son with him and go to Heaven. Of course, that is not reasonable and completely wrong, but that's how people think when they are depressed.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    Some people post only pure, unadulterated nonsense. They just don't get it. How can anyone allow themnselves to become so deluded by the mindless propaganda of the National Rifle Association and others like them?

    Show me anyplace -- anyplace -- where God guarantees the right to guns. Then explain exactly what the Constitution's writers meant when they included the words "well regulated" in the Second Amendment.

    Some posts are straight out of the NRA Playbook.

    As one person posted above, is the only defense against an insane father with a gun a baby with a gun? That idea makes no sense. And neither do the NRA's rantings.

  • Most Truthful and Patriotic Layton, UT
    April 6, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    BYR, that's right out of the NRA playbook: "Let's not talk about this right now. You're politicizing it."

    When IS the right time to talk about it, NRA? According to the NRA, the answer is "never".
    There is gun violence every day in the US, committed by people who should not have had access to guns -- and you want to stop us from talking about every case. Police, DAs, judges, children, infants -- they are all victims of gun violence.

    NO ONE is talking about taking away your guns, mohokat.
    People DO want solutions to gun violence, and if actions need to be taken to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, felons, illegal purchasers, and others -- that's a GOOD thing.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    April 6, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    Folks, lets not use this tragedy for our personal political agenda.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    April 6, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    So ... the only protection from a bad dad with a gun is a baby with his own gun?

    Gun enthusiasts would have more credibility if they would admit that there are times and places where guns just don't belong, where guns are hazardous and where guns are the problem.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 6, 2013 7:28 a.m.

    @ Lifelong. Way to take a play out of Obamas playbook. Use a trajedy to demogogue a way of life and yes a freedom and liberty guaranteed by the Constituion and God. This senseless act would have happened with or without a gun. Mine and yes your liberties and rights guaranteed by the Constitution are not for sale or trade not even for one second of safety. Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    April 6, 2013 1:56 a.m.

    There is a lot of things that can be done in a day, but at the end of the day it's what you did that matters. We say the words I love you but Actions speak louder than words.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    April 6, 2013 12:58 a.m.

    Obviously we need more guns.

  • Agki_Jr Sandy, UT
    April 5, 2013 9:13 p.m.

    Access to free mental health care might have prevented another mindblowing tragedy.

  • Lifelong Republican Orem, UT
    April 5, 2013 7:50 p.m.

    Tell me again about how important it is for all of us to have guns.

    Sad, sad story.

    When will we learn?