@BigCougar"That's kind of funny. If you go back and look,
Dres didn't get an offer from UCLA. They didn't even want one of their
own legacy recruits."Now that is funny. By that standard utah
goes into ucla's backyard every year and get's players, the thing is
ucla doesn't actually want any of them.LOL!
@uteology"If you weren't aware that's called good
recruiting, going into UCLA's backyard and getting a player. Now
wouldn't you agree that is more relevant?"That's kind
of funny. If you go back and look, Dres didn't get an offer from UCLA. They
didn't even want one of their own legacy recruits.Utah
out-recruited powerhouse programs like UNLV, UTEP and Nevada to get him.
There's that Pac12 recruiting advantage kicking in.Delusional
Artifact A of the claim that Hill has a history of turning his head to
Really Rock? This whole article should have been banned by your editor and never
seen the light of day.
Obviously Ducky doesn't know what he is talking about. We just got our 5th
straight top 25 recruiting class and not one single one of them was from Utah,
none of them was LDS, none of them was rated lower than 4 stars, and all of them
were African Americans. Combine that with our undefeated back to back PAC 12
championships and Rose Bowl wins in our 1st two years in the PAC 12 and it is
obvious that we don't need Utah recruits, LDS recruits, or anyone on our
staff that understands LDS culture.We're in the PAC 12 baby,
recruits will come clamoring just because of that, I'm pretty sure
we'll get better recruits than USC from now on.
@sweaterIf you feel you have to respond then you obviously "take
me seriously". LOL!As for your points, the LDS players are
important to utah because the vast majority of top instate recruits are LDS and
for utah to be successful they need to get their share of those recruits. The
evidence is indisputable by the way, back when utah did not get ANY of the top
instate recruits they were terrible and lost to BYU every single year usually by
embarrassing margins. Now that they do get their share of those recruits they
have had an edge on BYU head to head. Also utah offers just about
every single out of state LDS recruit, and gets some of them. They had one Dline
recruit from texas this year that said he came in large part because of the LDS
institute program at utah and he was one of their top recruits. If
you are so delusional that you think utah can succeed without LDS and instate
recruits then I hope that utah tries to do just that. It won't happen as
long as whittingham is there, but then he is far smarter than you, lint and
@noperspectiveUh....it is funny to read your clumsy attempt at
criticizing me while actually agreeing with me. LOL!As for this
hilarious line:"Utah is where the state's football talent
wants to be."Some of it, but the not the states top recruit,
never. Those still go to BYU or out of state, just the facts.
My opinion...1. Hill was a good AD once but has been on auto pilot
for years...hiring coaches (post Whitt and Majerus) has been a disaster...I hope
K2 can start a new trend. So I could care less about the outcome...dig up the
facts and make a decision...it is hard to believe the new AD would be worse than
what Hill has done in the past 5 years.2. Duck...no one takes the
Duck serious...and any good debater would simply take the facts she presents and
point out the obvious:a. Who cares what kids dream about. I could
care less if a kid dreams of playing for Utah all his life. I hope fast, big
and talented kids come to Utah. I dont even care if they dream...or sleep.b. If you need LDS kids to be successful in the PAC 12...how is USC and
Arizona so good. Do LDS kids have that extra bone in their ankle? Or some
magical power?...c. Why does the LDS "FORCE" only effect
Utah? Was Alabama stacked with RM's last year and I missed that?
Your last two sentences says it all Brad. We think we can fix things by quickly
identifying a villain and having him walk the plank. That's far easier and
more satisfying than finding the systemic problems and fixing them.
It's fun knowing that Utah's inclusion in the Pac-12 continues to eat
at Duckhunter. It's equally entertaining to read Duckhunter's
incessant predictions of doom for the Utes. Don't forget the Kruger
brothers and Jake Murphy in your list of LDS kids. Utah is where the
state's football talent wants to be. So, to answer your question, where
would Utah be? How about right where they are now...looking down at BYU. CougFaninTX: "No explanation will suffice for allowing sexual
abuse." Tell ya what, sport, do some digging to determine precisely what is
being investigated. When you have the answer, come back to the DN boards and
post an apology for being completely ignorant of the facts.
Uteology, Duckhunter actually makes a good point on this one. Yes, the
nationally highest profile guys the Utes typically get and produce are often not
local or LDS, but the local players have been the core of the team, most of them
with LDS roots, and the coaches that have embraced it have been successful, and
the ones that didn't haven't. This is a big reason I think Hill made a
good hire with Krystkowiak. He, like Majerus did, has emphasized the need to
recruit local players, which Boylen didn't do as good of a job at, and
local interest has started to pick back up in the program as a result.
Duckhunter:We get it. You anxiously hope and pray that Dr. Hill
will be terminated. And why wouldn't you? You're so insanely jealous
of Utah, and know that our A.D. had everything to do with getting Utah into the
Pac-12. You also know that Dr. Hill's successes - coupled by the failures
of Hale and Holmoe - had been the primary reason why Utah's athletic
program had been trending upward since the 90s, whereas yours had either
plateaued, or trended downward. You know that McBride equalized the fledging
Utah football program to Edwards', and that was a credit to Hill. You know
that Meyer > Crowton, another credit to Hill, and a black eye to Hale. You
know that Whittingham > Mendenmidmajor. Learn to live with it.
Even if Hill goes, Utah is still in the Pac-12, and you're still unwanted
by any relevant conference. That'll never change. You're midmajors
I find myself in a very odd position of agreeing with Duckhunter. A very odd
position indeed, and a first. If we lose Hill and don't get someone that
understands the importance of the LDS community and missionary program - in and
out of Utah - we could very well find ourselves taking a step backwards. The
only thing thing that could POSSIBLY mitigate that would be our membership in
the PAC12; but that is not a given.
@RockwellHow is that relevant, considering the kids I cited choose
Utah regardless of what they "grew up dreaming of being"? For example,
Dres Anderson:Anderson grew up in Riverside and attended plenty of
UCLA [his father's former team] games as a kid..."UCLA was most
definitely a team I was talking to, but Utah ended up being the place that I
liked the most." -- Source: ABC NewsIf you weren't aware
that's called good recruiting, going into UCLA's backyard and getting
a player. Now wouldn't you agree that is more relevant?@DuckyNope. They have to get is the best talent
"regardless" of religion or race. But the focus has to be on African
American recruits. Why? Because over 60% of the NFL and 75% of NBA are African
P.S. - Hill should be suspended until the investigation is completed. The
incident should be investigated by an independent group. Alum are not
@Snack PAC"If, Hill knew about the abuse, then he needs to
explain WHY he didn't do anything to stop it."Wrong!
I'll defer judgment, but if he knew about the abuse, no explanation is
needed. He deserves to be fired and banned from NCAA athletics. No explanation
will suffice for allowing sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is so much more serious
than what went on at Rutgers.
Ducky is a fly on every wall and I'm impressed with that. His knowledge of
what it takes in D1 football is equally impressive. But do you realize that no
one outside the LDS faith grows up dreaming about being a Cougar ? That kinda
cuts the demographic you talk about for the Utes in half for BYU. Because, as
we have seen for the last 15 years, the best of the best that stay in Utah go to
play football for the Utes with very few exceptions. And every year, it is
evident that the Utes pull away from BYU in talent slowly but surely. And FYI,
Stobart and Fassel's teams were loaded with talent. They just weren't
good college coaches.
DuckhunterHighland, UTYet your team can't beat the Utes.
3 in a row and 8 of the last 11.Pathetic really.
@uteologyThe reality you utah "fans" need to face is that
utah is not a dream for any kid growing up anywhere outside of SLC. The
university of utah is not a more desirable destination than anywhere else in the
pac12 with the possible exception of wsu. For utah to sustain any success they
have to embrace the LDS missionary and polynesian communities, with the
polynesian community being just a subset of the LDS community as the vast
majority of the polynesians that attend utah being LDS.It may hurt
your feelings to know that utah is not a destination on its own that can stand
up to the other places in the pac12, but your feelings don't matter. Yes
utah "fans" need to pray chris hill survives this, they need to pray
whittingham can get some improvement out of his team because if those two go,
and you guys get another chuck stobart or jim fassel, who ignores the local
culture and tries to out recruit usc, ucla, and oregon, for out of state talent
then the utah program will be an abject failure. utah will never compete with
them in that way.
@uteologyutah "fans" inability to accept reality is one of
the things that keeps me coming here. Tell me how successful was the
utah football program before mcbride took over and embraced the missionary
program and also the polynesian community? How successful would the utah
football program be if they returned to a state of antagonism towards kids going
on missions? How successful do you think the utah football program would be
without a coach, and A.D., that understands this states unique LDS culture and
embraces it?How successful was utah's football program before
they had an A.D. that undstood this who hired a coach that understood it?If they lose chris hill, and the new A.D. does not understand it, and
they lose whittingham, and the new coach does not understand it, do you really
think they can sustain any level of success?You yourself pointed out
that blechen never even knew who the utah program was until the sugar bowl. Do
you think utah would have ever made the sugar bowl without the coaches and A.D.
that understood the LDS culture and allowed athletes to live it?
The phrases Dr. Chris Hill and coverup? Are you guys kidding me? Chris Hill is
one of the most upstanding guys I have ever known. He would throw anyone out if
he knew they were acting against the best interests of the university. It's
amazing how we tend to throw people under the bus so easily. When he gets
exonerated I hope all of you apologize.
Duckhunter:Makesure those are ducks you're shooting and not geese,
because you sure don't seem to have your facts sraight as to
Whittingham's or Chris Hill's record.
Just like the AD at Rutgers, if Dr. Hill knew about the abuse happening within
his swimming program, and didn't do everything he could to stop it, he
deserves to be fired.
UteologyYou're so quick to find fault, that you conveniently
ignored half of Duckhunter's statement,"Let's face it,
no non Utahn is GROWING UP DREAMING of being a ute."How many of
those kids you cited actually GREW UP DREAMING of being a Ute some day?
@DuckhunterLet's face it, no non Utahn is growing up dreaming
of being a ute. None of them.------------Maybe but
winning on the national stage does seem to help:Brian BlechenMoorpark (Calif.) High School (non-LDS)"The first time he became
aware of the Utes’ program was when Utah won the 2009 Sugar Bowl." --
SL TribAnd here's a couple more non-LDS that sure thought Utah
"is the place":Joseph Smith (CA)Kenneth Scott (CA)Dres Anderson (CA)Travis Wilson (CA)Anthony Denham (CA)Justin Thomas (TX)Eric Row (TX)
Sadly, some Utah fans are willing to ignore Utah athletes being physically
abused, rather than see those responsible held accountable.IF, the
good doctor didn't know that abuse was happening in one of the programs he
oversees, then he needs to explain WHY he didn't know.If, Hill
knew about the abuse, then he needs to explain WHY he didn't do anything to
Fact is as of today there is no proof that Hill was involved in any cover up.
If he was then he deserves to be fired until then I'll just the Rock and
Ducky continue entertaining us:"Until utah embraced LDS players
they were one of the worst football programs in D1." -- Duckhunter
Sadly, at every opportunity, so many Y supporters look for any hope that Utah
may possibly fall back toward their level. To wish something bad for one of the
best leaders in our state to improve your position is quite sad. Then again, we
have also seen this behavior from Utah supporters when the Y has any issues.
I'd like to get Bobby Knight's opinion on this issue.
@jd tractorI am simply urging patience and knowledge of FACTS. Your
comments about a "potential cover up" and "bogus" investigation
only poison the well. Hopefully if you are ever accused of something you are
treated with more fairness.@DuckhunterThank goodness you have
chimed in to demonstrate to us all what a level headed critical thinker you are.
This is a serious discusion to undertake and you, as always, use it as
opportunity to take things to the gutter and turn it into a BYU Utah deal.
Brilliant, bravo, thank you so much for your contribution.
@gofishOne of the "investigators" is a former trustee of the
university and alumni of the year. Doubting his impartiality is simply a matter
of critical thinking, something utah "fans" mostly lack when it comes to
this matter.As for hill himself, well if he is run out it is utah
"fans" worst nightmare come to life. The moderate success utah athletics
has had over the last 20+ years is because hill actually understands that for
utah to be a successful athletic program they need to embrace local (LDS) talent
as athletes and coaches. Let's face it, no non Utahn is growing up dreaming
of being a ute. None of them.If hill goes then whittingham will not
be far behind because there is no guaranty a new A.D. will understand what utah
has to have to be a success. And if whittingham gets run out for his mediocre
record by a new A.D. there is no guaranty the new coach will understand what it
takes have even the moderate level of success utah has had. Until utah embraced
LDS players they were one of the worst football programs in D1.
@gonefishn: "potential cover-up" is not the same as "cover-up".
I'm siding with the families and the abused athletes, I'm sorry that
hurts your feelings enough to accuse me of leading a lynch mob. But I felt the
same way about Penn St., Rutgers and I'm real furious with Auburn. Sorry
but your anger is not justified towards me. Plus we've seen enought of
"indepedent" investigations to know they are bogus, especially when the
two individuals have been indentified by name and their previous affiliation
with Utah athletics is known. C'mon, reality check here fishn.
Rock's analogy of comparing the GM CEO and a car catching on fire
doesn't wash with me. Hill, obviously was aware of the allegations against
his swimming coach and stuck with him, just as the Rutgers AD did. They were
both hoping the incidents would go away without any one paying the
consequences.In this day of cameras everywhere, one must be very careful.
@gonefishnI totally agree! Once again, Rock and the D-News care
more about sensationalism more than substance. The truth will fall on either
side; let the investigators do their job.The real irony . . . the
bloggers are complaining about Utah;'s handling of the Rugby Team as too
harsh. Here, Hill was too soft. Same paper, similar articles, different
stance. Criticism on both sides. I guess, it's true, everybody has an
opinion . . .
@JD TractorAs a Ute fan, if wromg doing ocured than deal out the
appropriate punishment. You on the other hand have your pitch fork and torch in
hand. Why don't you just wait until the report comes out by the supposed
"ardent" U supporters before you claim a cover up.What if Hill
factually did nothing wrong and the report backs that up? You have already
labeled it a "cover up" way to keep an open mind.
No, no it won't.
It has to be tough being a parent these days. If you act on behalf of your child
too late, then you're irresponsible and selfish. But if you're up in
arms too quickly, you catch the disapproval of old Brad, who knows lots of
coaches, most of whom are just trying to administer a little Hannity discipline
to make up for what the parents lacked.
I agree with Rock. If Hill covered up abuse he's gone. However, he is being
"independently" investigated by ardent U supporters, which only means
another potential cover up. I hope the parents keep up the heat, they know what
happened and are very angry.