Chris B,Lets once again set the table on this issue. The PAC did not
invite BYU to join because the powers-that-be in the PAC are Birkenstock Bigots.
They simply won't invite a religious oriented institution into their
hypocritically self-conceived 'diversity' club. Especially in light of
their perception of the role of the LDS church in the prop 8 thing. Regardless
of the lies or excuses the PAC uses. Now, the University of Utah is a pretty
good school, with a pretty good set of athletic programs. And they have some
pretty honorable people. However, there is a massive inferiority complex among
so many of those associated with the University of Utah vis a vis all things
BYU, and it unfortunately manifests itself by constant attention by the likes of
you in BYU forums such as this. So Chris, a periodic resetting of obvious facts
like this is a good thing, and I will provide it periodically for the likes of
you. No doubt you will continue to be a presence here. By the way, it still
remains true that I have never once been in a University of Utah oriented
discussion forum. See the difference?
utahcountyute"If you're going to list the over all head to
head though, you should include the over all NCAA Tournament record of the
programs. Right?"Not if it's not relevant to the current
state of the programs.During the Dave Rose era (2006-2013):Rose - 209-66(76%), 6 NCAAs, 2 NITs, 4 conference championships, 8 20+ win
seasons, 7-8 NCAA/NIT, 12-3 versus Utah, including 7 in a row, and 11 of the
last 12Utah - 116-137(46%), 1 NCAA, 1 conference championship, 1 20+
win season, 0-1 NCAA/NIT, 6 losing seasons, 3-12 versus BYU, including 7
straight losses, and 1 win in the last 12The reality is, Rose has
built a solid NCAA tournament quality program that is poised to make some real
noise in the NCAA when the 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes are back from
missions.Utah has been a train wreck for most of the last decade
and, as usual, will be "rebuilding" again next season after losing most
of their key players from another losing team.
All you BYU fans crowing about your success, well, Utah has PAC 12 money now,
and our teams are teams are the best dressed losers in town!
@utahcountyuteWhile I agree with the premise of your post--that the
U has been more successful in the tournament than the Y--the stats you cite for
both teams would probably be more meaningful with some context.It
wasn't until 1975 that there were 32 teams in the tournament. So some of
the Sweet Sixteen appearances you cite for both teams were achieved without
winning a single game in the tournament. Similarly, a number of Elite Eight
appearances achieved by the U were likely the result of winning only one game in
the tournament.For many years, only the conference champion of each
conference was invited, leading to frustration and criticism of the tournament
similar to what's happened recently with the BCS in football. It
wasn't until the '80s when the field went to 48 and then to 64 that
the tournament gained it current popularity.Let's hope football
sees the light and the 4 team tournament expands quickly to 12 (top 4 get a bye
in the first round).
utahcountyuteCedar Hills, UTSo I accept that as an
acknowledgement once and for all that a national championship is in a realm all
it's own, not to be relegated to the wastebasket by jealous wannabes. Thanks!
GO_COUGARS!,The difference is that the Davies suspension Phantom
refers to was for something that wouldn't get a moment's attention at
virtually any other university. It was a BYU standard, and BYU held Davies to
it. No one outside of BYU (and perhaps the usual naysayers here) would have
cared one whit if BYU had swept it under the carpet, which is why it made
national headlines. People may not have understood BYU's standards, but
they generally respected BYU's willingness to enforce them despite the
impact on the season.Contrast that with a swim coach investigation
for abuse, the suspension of the entire rugby squad for undisclosed reasons, a
suspension for drunk driving the wrong way on the highway, a suspension of a
star player for multiple drug violations, and the booting of a player for
spousal abuse. Each of those incidents would create criticism anywhere, and
they are clearly black eyes (and I'm not saying BYU has never had its own
incidents).By the way, the role of pretending to be a BYU fan on
this site is already filled admirably by Ernest T. Bass and Mildred in Fillmore.
phantomIf only, if only...If you're going to list
the over all head to head though, you should include the over all NCAA
Tournament record of the programs. Right? Let us review.byU: 27
appearances, 7 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s and O Final Fours Utah:27
appearances, 17 Sweet 16s, 6 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, 1 Runner up and 1 NCAA
Tournament Championship.The cougs HAVE made a strong run as of late
as the Utes have been down. The fact still remains though that it would take the
cougs another 25 years of the Utes being down for them to even catch up to the
success the Utes have already had.With the Utes on the rise, it will
@GO_COUGARS"I see. when BYU takes corrective action and
suspends players, this equals gaining national respect."Who said
that?The national media that aired admirable reports and wrote
admirable articles on BYU's handling of the situation equals gaining
national respect. Open your eyes and ears.
@ Phantom"Even so, BYU gained national respect for the way it
handled the situation."I see. When BYU takes corrective action
and suspends players, this equals gaining national respect. When Utah does the
same thing to players on a club team, this equals a huge black eye for Utah
athletics in the eyes of the nation.I am learning so much.
I guess the Chris B's vacation is over. He disappeared during BYU's
post season run after some strong talk as to how BYU had and was going to
fail.But now he is back and has really helped the DNews generate
comments about BYU basketball and the MWC. Not sure how Utah and TCU footbal
got into the mix but then Chris is a very tunnel vision guy. Not
sure I understand all the tier stuff, but I would say his comment about BYU
being a 2nd tier school is one of his great fantasies in life. BYU
has a rich history and each year is increasing it's national brand. As
this school year winds down, the excitement is already building for next year.
Should be a fun year with nationwide exposure in numerous sports, many of which
are not even played at other schools in the State of Utah.Opps,
sorry I almost forgot that volleyball, softball and baseball are still going
@ Chris and other U fansY'all make me smile... It's the
end of Basketball Season, it's Tourney time, Teeples is simply pointing out
the Financial distribution of money for teams and conferences who are invited to
participate in these Tourneys and y'all want to start shouting about your 2
BCS Bowl games again... y'all are like 3 year olds... "What about when
we played in a BCS Bowl a few years ago?"... That's just
laughable...The thing about Sports and Revenue Distribution that you
really should be concerned about however, is your Market Share and the number of
bodies you are able to put in front of a TV Screen when your team is playing...
The fact that BYU beats you badly in every TV market (even the one where your
University is located) ought to be a concern... That's what truly drives
Revenue... You guys like to poke fun at ESPN's honeymoon with BYU as an
Indy but the truth is ESPN wouldn't even touch the U if it were they who
had gone Independent... Nobody watches your games... Heck, not many even go to
AZUTE1The perception emanating from Provo is of a coach that is
building a consistently good program that would have a serious Final Four
contender in Jimmer's senior season, if not for the unfortunate loss of
their starting center just before the playoffs began. Even so, BYU gained
national respect for the way in which it handled the situation.As
for making deep runs in the post season, BYU is 7-4 in the post season in the
last four years. Remind us again how long it's been since the Utes won a
single post season game.During the Dave Rose era:BYU209-66(76%), 6 NCAA tournaments, 2 NIT tournaments, 4 conference
championships, 8 20+ win seasons, Consensus National Player of the YearUtah116-137(46%), 6 losing seasons, 1 NCAA tournament, 1 conference
championship, 1 20+ win seasonAnd let's not forget, BYU signed
its best recruiting class ever in 2013.Overall, BYU leads the series
149-145, has won 7 in a row, and 11 of the last 12Regardless of
conference affiliation, it's indisputable which school has the better
Sorry, but my little sister seems to have a blind spot when it comes to Utah
basketball; perfectly understandable considering the rundown Utes have been a
train wreck for most of the last decade. It's been so long since we won a
post season game, that most of the kids on the hill don't even remember
it.Chrissy's obviously having difficulty accepting the fact
that the Utes aren't even a 2nd tier program. We're so bad, we
won't even schedule the Aggies and Wildcats, since being swept by BYU, USU
and WSU would further cement our status as the worst team in the state.sigh...
Why are you people responding something to Chris B? Just ignore his comments and
do your thought w/o him. He is just trash talking with silly things. JUST
IGNORE HIM! Even Utah fans has questioned him in past.
@ OnefeverIn only one sport, and even Boise was a shadow of its
former self this past season.
@Chris B" . . . being a second tier team in a good conference is
better than being a first tier team in a bad conference."Are U
saying that Utah is a second tier team? Wow! What an admission.I
will always be more proud of my school than the conference they play in.@staypuffinpcI'm sure BYU makes money from Zags and St
Mary's appearances in the NCAA the last two years, but to think they get a
piece of the pie for the years they were not in the conference is crazy.@ekuteWhy do U make up untruthful rumors that BYU will drop
athletics? There's a much higher probability that Utah will get dumped
from the PAC12 for poor performance than for BYU to curtail athletics. The ONLY
thing that would make BYU drop sports is if the NCAA required Sunday play.
Guys, Guys...it doesn't matter because literally every team from Utah would
lose to Boise State. Even Utah with its BCS backing.
I'd be interested in knowing if BYU benefits in the same way from WCC teams
making NCAA appearances. If so, they would've come out of that overall
deal better off due to the Zags and the Gaels NCAA appearances over the past 6
BYU made a ton of money for the WAC and the MTNWest conferences. That certainly
isn't to say that other teams didn't pull in money. But if you look
at the totals brought in by each school, I would bet that BYU was at the top.Yes, Utah and TCU brought in money for their BCS appearances. And, yes,
those totals are quite a bit of money. But you can't just look at the
total amounts brought in over the years. You also have to adjust for
inflation.For those who knock the idea of BYU being a nationally
prominent program: no, they are not Notre Dame. No, they aren't Ohio
State, or Michigan, or Duke, or North Carolina, or a lot of schools. What they
are is the only non-BCS school with a true national, or even world-wide, fan
base. And I would argue that they are one of the few programs with a
non-bandwagon national fan base.And they are one of a handfull of
non-BCS schools to win a national title in either football or basketball in the
last 50 years.
AZUTE1, "I do what I routinely do and that's to paint the
picture of reality, not one rooted in myth/spin..."There's
some unintentional irony for the rest of us. You can point to
Utah's Sweet 16 appearance as the equalizer between Utah and BYU's
basketball programs, but that would be "rooted in myth/spin." Utah is
on its third coach since Majerus left. The Sweet 16 appearance was using his
recruits. Things have been on a downward trajectory since, with 14-15, 11-19,
18-15, 25-10 (losing to a 12 seed in the first round), 14-17, 13-18, 6-25, and
15-18 records between 2005 and 2013. Not to mention getting obliterated by BYU
head-to-head. THAT is why BYU is considered a much better program right now,
Sweet 16 appearances aside.
[Cont'd]--And this all takes-place during recent years when the
perception emanating from down there out of utah county is one of "National
Prominence" and out of UTAH Basketball, extreme misfortune....However,
reality tells us that byu hasn't even remotely come close to this
perception of their own-making regarding success/achievement, nationally, when
they realistically have achieved nothing, whatsoever, beyond the
individual-accolades/-hype surrounding jf....Reality confirms just the
complete-opposite to be reflective of the truth when measured by today's
standards-of-success on the National Stage, and this is just simply what success
any given school achieves in The Tourney, itself.The fact is, byu
doesn't make deep-runs when it goes dancing....In 17 of 27 appearances,
they've exited winless....They're currently the National Leader in
NCAA Tourney appearances without ever reaching The Final Four at 27....This is
their lack-of any significant post-season success, in a nut-shell....Heck,
they've only ever won a conference tourney on 3 different occasions
['91, '92 & '01].They're even digressing
these days in their regular season consistency/losing more frequently at home,
Yforyale,The author never did say that only BYU made money for the MWC.
The article is simply about the fact that the MWC is still receiving money from
the NCAA because of BYU's NCAA Tourney appearances even though BYU is not
in the conference.Admission standards at Air Force are the same as
they are at BYU. I have seen recruiting letters and information from both
schools.Why would they fell stupid for leaving the conference. Even
without the money talked about in the article, Independence is and has been much
more profitable than staying in the MWC. On top of that, they are now the
benefactor of any money distributed through the WCC because of past teams'
appearances in the Tourney.
Y_is_for_Yale,Put that Ivy degree to work spotting your red
herrings. You state that BYU gained from other schools' success in the
MWC. Sure, that's how conference revenue-sharing works. Since BYU won a
majority of MWC championships across all sports while in the conference, by your
standards BYU benefitted other programs more than the other way around. But
this article was specifically about benefits from NCAA b-ball tournament
appearances, not all sports, and not all sports championships. It's clear
BYU left money accrued from tournament payouts on the table by leaving. You
call that stupid, but perhaps BYU has other, long term objectives in mind that
more than offset that money. Like no longer having to share. It's a
tradeoff - life's full of 'em.Air Force athletic
recruiting wasn't mentioned, but since you have, I doubt you'll find
many who'd argue against the challenges of academy recruiting. But after
the academies, I'd put BYU athletics right up there with recruiting
challenges given academic qualifications, the honor code, and missions. And AF
beating BYU occasionally despite different recruiting pools? I expect no less
from determined officer-athletes.
BYUSU--"@ Chris B.'And teams like Utah and TCU
carried the conference in BCS football money.'How come you
don't mention all those years BYU and Utah were in the WAC and MWC? You
know those years when BYU was winning most of the Conference Championships. All
those years all Utah did was make sure they got their share of the money. You
don't want to hear about those, just the 2 years Utah played in BCS
games.'What your analysis here is missing, is what the precise
dollar-amount in actualy money-generated/-shared by each school, byu decades
ago, in the time-frame you referenced ['70s/'80s], and UTAH more
recently ['90s-Current].I look forward to seeing what your
assessment entails, ONCE it's actually completed.
Y_is_for_YaleSalt Lake City, UTAnd Yale is for reading
comprehension. WAC and MWC championships are not the unit gifts that keep
giving. Not sure what an MWC championship is worth, but whatever it is, pretty
sure BYU has cornered the market on those too. Maybe if your school
had been Harvard. Are you sure it wasn't Dartmouth?
I don't understand why this article is just now surfacing, relative to the
date of the original article it references.I know the byu fanbase
utterly despises when I do what I routinely do and that's to paint the
picture of reality, not one rooted in myth/spin....Herre we go--Just
imagine the wealth byu-basketball in recent years w/their Tourney-appearances
could've generated, IF they weren't, in fact, The Poster-Child for
Post-Season Futility and actually consistently won games, once there, thus
regularly making deep-runs?Post-Majerus, UTAH has, even in the face
of their struggles relative to adequately replacing their Legend, precisely the
same, exact number of Sweet 16s byu has since their sole Elite 8 run, led by
Ainge, more than 3 decades ago and only 1 less Tourney-Victory [of course, not
inclusive of their play-in game win against Mighty-Iona played merely for the
right to get straight whooped by Marquette]....This Sweet 16 occurred under rose
and was w/byu's most celebrated-player in their program's history on
their roster in his senior year....Sweet 16 =  Tourney wins.[To
COme on people. Don't feed the troll. He's no Utah fan. He's
just here to stir the pot.
@ Chris B."And teams like Utah and TCU carried the conference in
BCS football money."How come you don't mention all those
years BYU and Utah were in the WAC and MWC? You know those years when BYU was
winning most of the Conference Championships. All those years all Utah did was
make sure they got their share of the money. You don't want to hear about
those, just the 2 years Utah played in BCS games.
Chris, if you were any funnier we (including MOST Utah fans) wouldn't be
able to handle it. Jimmy Fallon beat you to "The Tonight Show" but
maybe you should send in an audition 'comment' sample to CBS. Surely
David Letterman will be retiring some day. Maybe you could get his gig.
You're certainly laughable enough to get it.Won't be long
now until we're reading about your Rose Bowl "mark it down"
guarantees again. That'll be quite a feat even for your self described 2nd
tier PAC boys (although based on the first 2 years of your membership you'd
be hard pressed to claim anything more than bottom tier in your BCS conference).
In full disclosure, I'm not a Mountain West follower (my school was founded
in 1701, before the country you're living in was even a "country").
That said, I can't help but notice the blind spot in the author's
thinking if he concludes that BYU only makes millions for the Mountain West and
not vice versa. If I recall, Colorado State, Utah, Boise State, New Mexico,
TCU, SDSU, UNLV, and Air Force have all won Mountain West Championships in one
sport or another, and BYU likely benefited from those victories (and publicity),
as well. Moreover, comparing a school like BYU to, say, a school like Air Force
(where admission standards are much more stringent for athletes), is like
comparing apples and oranges (and, yet, schools like Air Force still beat BYU).
Finally, if BYU is making all this money for the Mountain West, don't they
feel stupid for leaving the conference? It would be akin to the Mormon Church
making millions for Notre Dame. Who's smarter then?
Chris B,Please give us an exact dollar amount to back up that
statement. I believe that between tv revenues and bowl revenues, BYU dwarfs Utah
even with the BCS money. But there is no way of putting a value on what part of
the tv money BYU was responsible for other than to look at the current tv
contract that BYU has. Although, there are no details there because BYU will not
release them.Which brings us back to your off-the-handle
@Chris B.Spot on my friend. Very interesting that during the end of
basketball season that they wrote an article talking about basketball, and how
BYU made money for their former conference. Maybe if the Utes had played post
season basketball recently, or if we were in football season and this was a
football article and if the MWC was still making money off of your BCS wins,
then just maybe you would be included.Keep thinking that
they're out to get the U amigo.
@toomsart,The article was trying to hide the fact that Utah has
given more to byu in football money than byu has given to utah in basketball
money.Very interesting Utah was left out indeed.
@Real BassYou should worry more about why the tds wasn't
invited than why Utah was.
The so called "cellar-dweller" owns the tds. Pac12 membership means a
long, bright secure future for the Utes. What the haters are in denial about is
that it's a very real possibility that if independence doesn't work,
the tds administrators will do away with intercollegiate athletics. Give us a
couple of years to settle into the benefits of the Pac12 and you haters will be
eating your hateful, jealous rhetoric.
@ Chris BNice to see Utah getting all the PAC 12 money. That's
all they're getting, by the way, since they don't hit .500 in
basketball and share the basement in football.Interesting that Utah
wasn't mentioned as benefitting from all the BYU generated MWC receipts.
Seems they were a member of the conference, too.How's
everything working with the swim team and the rugby team at the U? You have
heard about them, haven't you? What "tier" are they in, relatively
Truth, it's working just fine. You'll see that first hand this fall.
How old are you chris. over the long term utah hasn't carried anything but
BYU's water. You got invited to the pac because every house needs a
doormat. Don't you recall that they wanted Texas and company and you were
the boobie prize. Andy you've filled your role admirably, as conference
members have walked all over you!
And how is that Pac 12 move working for you ChrisB....other than being a
And teams like Utah and TCU carried the conference in BCS football money.byu is a second tier team, regardless of the conference they are in.
And being a second tier team in a bad/no conference is worse than being a second
tier team in a good conference. For that matter, being a second tier team in a
good conference is better than being a first tier team in a bad conference.