Quantcast

Comments about ‘BYU rugby: Wasatch Cup scrapped, Utah suspended, BYU to host clinic’

Return to article »

Published: Tuesday, April 2 2013 8:40 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
nosaerfoecioveht
NSL, UT

Solomon Levi:.

I love that you and your fellow WACey fans are still so up in arms over an intramural team.

Simple question for you: If they represent Utah athletics and the Pac 12 as your desperate spin implies, why did they get suspended?

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

Naval Vet

"I already TOLD you. Reread my 7:13 am post earlier today. It's right there in #2: "We were disappointed to learn the club was using the University of Utah mark after they were instructed not to..."

I read your post, but apparently you're choosing to ignore the obvious:

The a school that has authority to discipline a program, obviously bears ultimate responsibility for anything that program does, regardless of the name used by the program.

PROVE, that calling themselves the "University of Utah" Rugby team is the ONLY thing that got them suspended.

Your frantic and emotional need to disassociate the school from a program that the school administers simply proves how embarrassing this whole situation is to Utah fans.

Nobody, except Utah apologists, cares whether Dr. Hill oversaw the Rugby program. ANY scandal associated with Utah, reflects poorly on Utah and, by extension, Utah's conference.

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

nosaerfoecioveht

I love how the PACyWACers are still so up in arms trying to deflect criticism from the embarrassing suspension of an intramural team.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

Ok, let me get this straight: The Utah rugby team is part of the INTRAMURAL (as in, only participates within the boundaries/confines of the school) activities of the university, and yet plays various club teams from around the state?

Yeah, that makes sense (roll my eyes). Nice spin, Utah fans.

As the article states, the Rugby teams is not sanctioned by the Utah athletics department, but rather is a sports club that falls under the direction of the UNIVERSITY'S Campus Recreation Services.

So it falls under the direction of the UNIVERSITY.

That's point #1.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

Then there's this gem from the RugbyMag article "Report indicates Utah Rugby Suspended": 'Utah Rugby actually played under a suspension of sorts in the fall. The team and the players were registered with USA Rugby as the Salt Lake City Rugby Club. This was part of a compromise between the University and the team after unspecified violations related to player behavior almost scuttled the 2012-2013 season. Utah played the fall 7s season unofficially as the University of Utah, and their games were reported as being played by "Utah." However in official channels they were Salt Lake City, thus keeping the university and the team at arm's length from each other.'

So, according to this, the rugby team had already changed its name and distanced itself from the university (even though it STILL FALLS under the University's direction). They play the entire 2012-2013 season and NOBODY has a complaint. So why would they get suspended NOW for mis-representing the university, when they had already changed their name?

truecoug1
Provo, UT

It's also interesting to note that Utah has no problem with its rugby program using its name when they're doing well (i.e. inaugural 7's tournament champs in 2010, national champ runner-ups in '02 and '05) but when an incident occurs involving a "school rules violation on a school van while traveling on a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED trip" in May 2012 (RugbyMag, "More on U. Utah woes") the U immediately tries to distance themselves from the program and force the program to change its name, even though it is still under the direction of the University's Campus Recreation Services.

Bottom line: the rugby teams was a club team under the direction of the university (which is why the University suspended "the University of Utah rugby program", as every report has stated). The name change compromise occurred in May 2012 after the university learned of school violation on sanctioned trip.

The rugby team apparently fulfilled its end of the bargain and was allowed to play the entire 2012-2013 season...and now we're being made to believe that the program is being suspended because they DIDN'T change their name?

Either way, it looks bad for the university.

nosaerfoecioveht
NSL, UT

@solomon

If it's so embarrassing, why are you avoiding my question?

The only thing that's embarrassing is your continued desperation after the facts have come out.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

I should add re: "Utah rugby is part of the intramural program" that not only does the Utah rugby team play against club teams around the state, it plays teams from around the country, too.

I can't think of a single intramural squad here at BYU that has played an intramural squad from California. Which makes perfect sense, seeing that intramural means "WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SCHOOL" (though I guess, for BYU, the world is our campus, so it would actually make sense for a BYU intramural team to play one from California).

:)

Go Cougars!

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

nosaerfoecioveht

The answer to your question is self-evident. Any program administered by the University of Utah represents the University of Utah, regardless of the name adopted by the program.

LOL at how desperately you're trying to save yourself the embarrassment of Utah administering a program that they're too embarrassed to call their own.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

truecoug1:

I didn't work for ASUU, so I don't know the budget's individual line item accounts, but I do know that the Athletic Dept's budget is completely separate from the budget allocated to Campus Recreation. Now it's conceivable that the "intramural" program and the "club sports" program would both be allocated through the same Campus Recreation, but would NOT be conceivable that they'd receive any funding from the Athletic Dept. If the Rugby team received funding through Campus Recreation, then THAT would be the entity who would have oversight. It is also conceivable that "club sports" would be a subgroup of "intramurals".

Now if the "Salt Lake Rugby Club" received funding from the university, the university would own oversight. It was my understanding that the "Salt Lake Rugby Club" was permitted by the university to operate AS the "Salt Lake Rugby Club". But the minute it was discovered that the Rugby team was identifying itself as the "University of Utah Rugby Club", they violated the conditions of their approbation, and was thereby suspended.

Does that simplify things for you?

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Solomon Levi:

"The a school that has authority to discipline a program, obviously bears ultimate responsibility for anything that program does, regardless of the name used by the program."

I never said the university had no oversight authority. I just said the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12 had none. Quit trying to change the argument.

"PROVE, that calling themselves the "University of Utah" Rugby team is the ONLY thing that got them suspended."

Just read the article. I can't say any plainer than that.

"Your frantic and emotional need to disassociate the school from a program that the school administers simply proves how embarrassing this whole situation is to Utah fans."

I did no such thing. I only disassociated the Rugby team from the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12. Your frantic and emotional need to defend the indefensible is root of all your strawman arguments.

nosaerfoecioveht
NSL, UT

Solomon

The answer to why they were suspended is self-evident? Makes me wonder why you keep avoiding the question.

LOL!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Does that simplify things for you?"

Sure, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I never said that the athletic department was in charge of the rugby team. In fact, I quoted the article that said the rugby program ISN'T sanctioned by the athletic department, but rather falls under the University's Campus Recreation Services.

My whole point was to show that the University administered the rugby program and, as such, it doesn't look good for the University to have to suspend its entire rugby program.

It also looks bad, considering that the university had NO problem with the name of the rugby program when it won a championship in 2010 and was the NC runner up in '02 and '05, and yet after "school violations on a school sanctioned trip" in 2012, the university immediately tries to distance itself from the program by having them change their name, when the rugby program is still under the administration of the university.

The whole thing looks bad for the University.

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

navelvet

Gotta laugh at how quickly Utah fans are abandoning their Rugby program.

Looks like somebody needs to update the Utah Utes Wikipedia:

"The Utah Utes are the athletics teams of the University of Utah. The men's basketball team is known as the "Runnin' Utes"... the women's gymnastics team is known as the "Red Rocks".

Notable non-varsity sports

"Utah rugby has been led since 2008 by head coach Blake Burdette, who played for the US national team at the 2007 Rugby World Cup. Utah has consistently fielded one of the top college rugby teams in the country, reaching the national championship game in 2002 and 2005, losing to rivals Cal both times, and reaching the national semifinals in 2006 and 2011. Utah finished the 2010 regular season ranked #2 in the nation. The success of the Utah rugby program has led to commercial success, with Utah rugby securing sponsorships from national companies such as Under Armor and New York Life."

PROMINENTLY listed as a Utah Utes sports team when they were successful, now suddenly disgraced, and abandoned by Utah fans.

Laugable!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

phoenix:

Does that wikipedia article tie the Rugby team to the Athletic Dept. and/or the Pac-12 as your Indy-WACey brethren are desperately trying to do? No? Well then I don't know what it you're trying to argue.

"Gotta laugh at how quickly Utah fans are abandoning their Rugby program."

We aren't abandoning the Rugby program. The University (not the fans) suspended (not abandoned) the Rugby team. Gotta laugh at how desperate our Indy-WACey little brothers are to find something nefarious to pin on their big bros. Laughable.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

truecoug1:

You said, "It's also interesting to note that Utah has no problem with its rugby program using its name when they're doing well but when an incident occurs involving a 'school rules violation on a school van while traveling on a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED trip' in May 2012 the U immediately tries to distance themselves from the program and force the program to change its name..."

First of all, Utah had no problem with our Rugby program using Utah's name when they weren't violating school rules. Not when they were doing well. Utah's Rugby program was doing well NOW, but that didn't stop the university from enforcing its rules.

Second of all, Utah didn't prohibit the team from playing Rugby after the violation. They just prohibited them from using Utah's name. Once Utah violated that rule, THEN the university suspended the team.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

truecoug1:

Now here are some quotes from you fellow Indy-WACers:

"...all the more reason to sweep it under the rug." -- SamoanYfan

"This rugby fiasco will also get swept under the rug." -- BlueNtheFace

So what's interesting is you're complaining when the U DOES hold their students accountable, while other Y fans complain that they DON'T. And its about the same incident.

"My whole point was to show that the University administered the rugby program and, as such, it doesn't look good for the University to have to suspend its entire rugby program."

You're acknowledging that the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12 have no jurisdiction, but seem concerned about Utah's "image problem" over the rugby team's suspension for an internal rules violation. So what YOU have done? Keep in mind that you told the team to NOT use your name, and they did it anyway. So what course of action do you think the university SHOULD have taken?

nosaerfoecioveht
NSL, UT

100 comments on an article about an intramural team! Awesome. Solomon you still haven't told me why the team was suspended :)

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Second of all, Utah didn't prohibit the team from playing Rugby after the violation. They just prohibited them from using Utah's name. Once Utah violated that rule, THEN the university suspended the team."

Exactly, which has been my point all along. The Rugby team violates SCHOOL RULES, and the punishment meted out is that they have to change their name to "disassociate themselves" from the University, even though the University is still in charge of the rugby program?

Then, when the Rugby team apparently violates their agreement with the University, the University suspends them for that?

Why not just suspend the whole program in the first place, when the school rules violation happen, instead of going through this whole process?

Either way, the bottom line is that this whole situation reflects poorly on the university. I hope that they can work it all out, along with the swimming coach issue.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@Naval Vet "So what's interesting is you're complaining when the U DOES hold their students accountable, while other Y fans complain that they DON'T. And its about the same incident."

Technically, the University DID sweep this under the rug. I don't recall any statements or articles made by the University of Utah back in 2012 when the school violations happened that stated "The rugby program violated school rules. Since they are a club team, and not part of our athletic program, we have asked that they change their name to Salt Lake City Rugby to make it clear that we do not condone behavior like this at the University of Utah" or something to that effect.

And my issue isn't with the U holding their students accountable. I just think it's funny HOW they've held these students accountable. No REAL punishment for the actual offense, but heaven forbid if the offenders actually associate themselves with the university that administers them.

Seems kind of hypocritical to me.

Go Cougars!

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments