@NavalVet "Nevertheless, better a bad year in the Pac-12 than an irrelevant
year in the [Indy}WAC."Ah, poor NavalVet. Wanting so
desperately for the U to be considered relevant and for BYU to not. Unfortunately, Utah has never been relevant and nobody cares about them. I
believe the whole Robert Anae being "mean" to the media got more press
than the swimgate cover-up on the hill.Why? Because BYU is the big
school in town. Even Utah's move to the PAC 12 couldn't change that.
The fact that Utah has laid a big egg since being in the PAC 12 hasn't
helped their image either.BYU has always been the top dog in the
state. It drives the ratings, the papers, the radio. And it brings
out the best in 'fans' like U, Chris B, AZUte, etc.Bottom
line, BYU is a national brand, while Utah is currently running their football
facilities out of a trailer park.It doesn't get much more WACky
then that.Go Cougars!
truecoug1:Nope. Not a good year for us. Nevertheless, better a bad
year in the Pac-12 than an irrelevant year in the [Indy}WAC.
@NavalVetEither way, it has not been a good year for Utah athletics.
Setting aside the fact that neither the men's football or basketball teams
reached .500 on the year, and that they both missed out on the playoffs,
here's a few of the issues the university is dealing with (or has dealt
with):2012: Brian Blechen suspended 3 games for "multiple
drug-test failures" for marijuana2013: Niasi Leota gets kicked off the
team for assaulting his wife in front of their children2013: The Ute
Swimming coach gets suspended, and subsequently fired, for allegations of sexual
abuse with a 15 year old back in 2009. Chris Hill comes under fire for having
known about these and other abuse allegations within the swim program, and not
doing anything about them. Under investigation.2013: UofU rugby program
suspended indefinitely for violating apparent agreement with the University to
not use the University's name in athletic competition. This agreement came
about after the rugby team violated school rules and was punished by having to
change its name(? that is still weird to me).Like I said before, not
a very good year for the U.Go Cougars!
truecoug1:"I think you're having trouble answering my
original question. WHY, when the rugby team actually broke school rules on a
school sanctioned trip, did the University try to distance themselves from a
club team that they still administered?"How should I know? How
should ANYBODY know? Nobody really knows what "violation" occurred.
I've heard "rumors" that it something to do with alcohol, but
consumption isn't illegal for adults over 21. Maybe the university
didn't want their "brand" connected to binge drinking -- and
that's only assuming that was the problem. The "Salt Lake Rugby
Club" does not touch Utah's brand. Student organizations are student
run, and funding for student clubs are petitioned thru ASUU. If student clubs
binge drink, an no student funding was applied to purchasing alcohol, no
violation would have been committed, and thus, there would be no reason to close
this club. However, this club violated specific instructions to not associate
their club's name to the U, and this violated that clubs approbation.And all of the above is based on flimsy rumor. Why don't you and
Cougars1 -- who clearly doesn't get it -- wait until more information comes
Naval,Why is it that you seem to be the only one who doesn't
get it? Ever.
@NavalVet "I have no idea why that is so difficult for you to
comprehend."It's not, I understand what you're trying
to say. But I think you're having trouble answering my original question.
WHY, when the rugby team actually broke school rules on a school sanctioned
trip, did the University try to distance themselves from a club team that they
still administered? The offenses still happened, and the individuals
responsible weren't punished. Instead, they were simply asked to change
their name, while still being allowed to play rugby. It makes it
look like the university was fine with whatever the program did (or, in this
case, whatever rules it broke) as long as it didn't officially reflect on
the university.But the best part is that it doesn't matter if
the rugby program had to change its name, it was still being administered by the
university. Hence the suspension being handed down from the university,
suspending the "university's rugby program" after this supposed
breach of confidence in using the university's name (even though the rugby
coach said they had done everything the university asked of them).It
reflects poorly on the university.
SportsFan:"You quite obviously don't understand the
difference between intermural and intramural sports programs."Having actually PLAYED both intramural sports AND extramural club sports while
a student at the U, I know full well the difference. I just don't know
from which subaccount club sports receive their funding. Fret not. I'll
always be smarter than you.
truecoug1:"So to your question "Why suspend the 'Salt
Lake Rugby club'"? Why indeed. It's weird, because that's
what the University of Utah just did."I already told you. I
can't say it any plainer. The university revoked the team's
permission to use the "Utah" brand, but permitted them to operate as a
student club...just like OTHER student organizations (i.e. fraternities and
sororities, LDSSA, the Hinkley Institute, and any other student group who
receives student funding). But when that sanction was ignored, the university
took a different approach...this time suspending the club altogether. I have no
idea why that is so difficult for you to comprehend.
@NavalVetAgain, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.
The rugby team was not an intramural team, it was a club team (as specified in
this article and the Rugby Magazine articles). It fell under the administration
of the University of Utah through the Campus Recreation Services department.
It had been branded as the University of Utah Rugby team since its
inception up until this school rules violation in 2012 that happened on a school
sanctioned trip. At that point, the school wanted to distance themselves from
the program, and instead of punishing the offenders for the school violations,
the ONLY punishment meted out is that the rugby program had to change their
name, which they did. They were allowed to play all of last season after
registering as the Salt Lake Rugby Club Team.Now, the school
suspends the rugby program for 'violating their agreement' and the
rugby coach is shocked, since, to his understanding, they had complied with
everything the school had asked them to do.So to your question
"Why suspend the "Salt Lake Rugby club"? Why indeed. It's
weird, because that's what the University of Utah just did.Doesn't look good.
navelvetYou quite obviously don't understand the difference
between intermural and intramural sports programs.
truecoug1:"The Rugby team violates SCHOOL RULES, and the
punishment meted out is that they have to change their name to
'disassociate themselves' from the University, even though the
University is still in charge of the rugby program?"The Rugby
club received funding from Campus Recreation. So do all those intramural sports
programs from Greek Row, to LDSSA, to ROTC/NROTC, etc. As long as the
university contributes money to an organization, it can set specific parameters
within that organization, such minimum GPAs, minimum credit hours taken, members
must be U students, etc. When my fraternity participated in intramural
football, basketball, softball, etc, were not registered, nor authorized to
identify ourselves, as "Univeristy of Utah". Had we started calling
ourselves that, we could have been disqualified, and our seasons cut short.
"Utah" is a brand that can only be authorized BY Utah."Why not just suspend the whole program in the first place, when the
school rules violation happen, instead of going through this whole
process?"At one point, the Rugby team had permission to use
Utah's brand. That was revoked. Why suspend the "Salt Lake Rugby
@2ferI think the lack of understanding is on those that continue to
claim the univeristy of utah's own rugby team, club or not, doesn't
represent the university of utah. I understand the desire to claim it
doesn't but your "frantic and emotional" protestations simply
don't change reality.It would be impossible for the university
of utah to suspend or punish a rugby team that wasn't it's own. Surely
you can "understand" that piece of truth?
Are Utah fans blind?"RUGBY IS A CLUB SPORT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH CONFERENCE AFFILIATION.""(1) Rugby is not an NCAA
sport. It's a "club" sport. Therefore, Dr. Hill has nothing to do
with it."So you're all saying Utah doesn't care at all
about a little ity bitty club sport that sometimes goes deep in tournament play?
And many are defending it by essentially saying to slap them on the hand and
move on? If a player breaks a rule, he should be punished. Utah fans are
turning into other fans of schools like Ohio State, USC, and North
Carolina...schools of big programs who get sucked into what the suits say about
and don't want to admit that this embarrasses the school for YEARS.
Welcome to the PAC Utah...you are just like USC and Oregon...Utah fans are
right, they belong in that conference.
Snack PAC"didn't even hint at such a distinction, only that
Rugby is a non-varsity sport"Uh, that is a huge distinction.
And I think you underestimate how many people understand the difference between
a club sport and an NCAA sanctioned varsity sport. Granted, nobody from Utah
County seems to, but it's a different story outside the bubble.
navelvetGotta laugh at how desperate the PACyWACers are to draw a
distinction between Utah "Athletics" and Utah Rugby, especially since
the Utah Utes Wikipedia, with its glowing praise of the Utah Rugby program,
didn't even hint at such a distinction, only that Rugby is a non-varsity
sport, in other words, a non-scholarship program.The irony is
NOBODY, except for a few Utah apologist bloggers, even cares. As far as the vast
majority of hard core and casual fans are concerned, they read "Utah Rugby
team suspended" and immediately assume that Utah Rugby is just as much a
part of Utah Athletics as Utah Basketball or Utah Football.None of
your vain whining will change that perception.
@Naval Vet "So what's interesting is you're complaining when the U
DOES hold their students accountable, while other Y fans complain that they
DON'T. And its about the same incident."Technically, the
University DID sweep this under the rug. I don't recall any statements or
articles made by the University of Utah back in 2012 when the school violations
happened that stated "The rugby program violated school rules. Since they
are a club team, and not part of our athletic program, we have asked that they
change their name to Salt Lake City Rugby to make it clear that we do not
condone behavior like this at the University of Utah" or something to that
effect.And my issue isn't with the U holding their students
accountable. I just think it's funny HOW they've held these students
accountable. No REAL punishment for the actual offense, but heaven forbid if
the offenders actually associate themselves with the university that administers
them.Seems kind of hypocritical to me.Go Cougars!
@NavalVet "Second of all, Utah didn't prohibit the team from playing
Rugby after the violation. They just prohibited them from using Utah's
name. Once Utah violated that rule, THEN the university suspended the
team."Exactly, which has been my point all along. The Rugby
team violates SCHOOL RULES, and the punishment meted out is that they have to
change their name to "disassociate themselves" from the University, even
though the University is still in charge of the rugby program?Then,
when the Rugby team apparently violates their agreement with the University, the
University suspends them for that?Why not just suspend the whole
program in the first place, when the school rules violation happen, instead of
going through this whole process?Either way, the bottom line is that
this whole situation reflects poorly on the university. I hope that they can
work it all out, along with the swimming coach issue.Go Cougars!
100 comments on an article about an intramural team! Awesome. Solomon you still
haven't told me why the team was suspended :)
truecoug1:Now here are some quotes from you fellow Indy-WACers:"...all the more reason to sweep it under the rug." --
SamoanYfan"This rugby fiasco will also get swept under the
rug." -- BlueNtheFaceSo what's interesting is you're
complaining when the U DOES hold their students accountable, while other Y fans
complain that they DON'T. And its about the same incident."My whole point was to show that the University administered the rugby
program and, as such, it doesn't look good for the University to have to
suspend its entire rugby program."You're acknowledging that
the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12 have no jurisdiction, but seem concerned about
Utah's "image problem" over the rugby team's suspension for an
internal rules violation. So what YOU have done? Keep in mind that you told
the team to NOT use your name, and they did it anyway. So what course of action
do you think the university SHOULD have taken?
truecoug1:You said, "It's also interesting to note that
Utah has no problem with its rugby program using its name when they're
doing well but when an incident occurs involving a 'school rules violation
on a school van while traveling on a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED trip' in May 2012
the U immediately tries to distance themselves from the program and force the
program to change its name..."First of all, Utah had no problem
with our Rugby program using Utah's name when they weren't violating
school rules. Not when they were doing well. Utah's Rugby program was
doing well NOW, but that didn't stop the university from enforcing its
rules. Second of all, Utah didn't prohibit the team from
playing Rugby after the violation. They just prohibited them from using
Utah's name. Once Utah violated that rule, THEN the university suspended
phoenix:Does that wikipedia article tie the Rugby team to the
Athletic Dept. and/or the Pac-12 as your Indy-WACey brethren are desperately
trying to do? No? Well then I don't know what it you're trying to
argue."Gotta laugh at how quickly Utah fans are abandoning their
Rugby program."We aren't abandoning the Rugby program. The
University (not the fans) suspended (not abandoned) the Rugby team. Gotta laugh
at how desperate our Indy-WACey little brothers are to find something nefarious
to pin on their big bros. Laughable.
navelvetGotta laugh at how quickly Utah fans are abandoning their
Rugby program.Looks like somebody needs to update the Utah Utes
Wikipedia:"The Utah Utes are the athletics teams of the
University of Utah. The men's basketball team is known as the
"Runnin' Utes"... the women's gymnastics team is known as the
"Red Rocks".Notable non-varsity sports"Utah
rugby has been led since 2008 by head coach Blake Burdette, who played for the
US national team at the 2007 Rugby World Cup. Utah has consistently fielded one
of the top college rugby teams in the country, reaching the national
championship game in 2002 and 2005, losing to rivals Cal both times, and
reaching the national semifinals in 2006 and 2011. Utah finished the 2010
regular season ranked #2 in the nation. The success of the Utah rugby program
has led to commercial success, with Utah rugby securing sponsorships from
national companies such as Under Armor and New York Life."PROMINENTLY listed as a Utah Utes sports team when they were successful, now
suddenly disgraced, and abandoned by Utah fans.Laugable!
@NavalVet "Does that simplify things for you?"Sure, but
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I never said that the
athletic department was in charge of the rugby team. In fact, I quoted the
article that said the rugby program ISN'T sanctioned by the athletic
department, but rather falls under the University's Campus Recreation
Services.My whole point was to show that the University administered
the rugby program and, as such, it doesn't look good for the University to
have to suspend its entire rugby program.It also looks bad,
considering that the university had NO problem with the name of the rugby
program when it won a championship in 2010 and was the NC runner up in '02
and '05, and yet after "school violations on a school sanctioned
trip" in 2012, the university immediately tries to distance itself from the
program by having them change their name, when the rugby program is still under
the administration of the university.The whole thing looks bad for
SolomonThe answer to why they were suspended is self-evident? Makes
me wonder why you keep avoiding the question.LOL!
Solomon Levi:"The a school that has authority to discipline a
program, obviously bears ultimate responsibility for anything that program does,
regardless of the name used by the program."I never said the
university had no oversight authority. I just said the Athletic Dept. and the
Pac-12 had none. Quit trying to change the argument."PROVE,
that calling themselves the "University of Utah" Rugby team is the ONLY
thing that got them suspended."Just read the article. I
can't say any plainer than that. "Your frantic and
emotional need to disassociate the school from a program that the school
administers simply proves how embarrassing this whole situation is to Utah
fans."I did no such thing. I only disassociated the Rugby team
from the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12. Your frantic and emotional need to
defend the indefensible is root of all your strawman arguments.
truecoug1:I didn't work for ASUU, so I don't know the
budget's individual line item accounts, but I do know that the Athletic
Dept's budget is completely separate from the budget allocated to Campus
Recreation. Now it's conceivable that the "intramural" program and
the "club sports" program would both be allocated through the same
Campus Recreation, but would NOT be conceivable that they'd receive any
funding from the Athletic Dept. If the Rugby team received funding through
Campus Recreation, then THAT would be the entity who would have oversight. It
is also conceivable that "club sports" would be a subgroup of
"intramurals".Now if the "Salt Lake Rugby Club"
received funding from the university, the university would own oversight. It
was my understanding that the "Salt Lake Rugby Club" was permitted by
the university to operate AS the "Salt Lake Rugby Club". But the minute
it was discovered that the Rugby team was identifying itself as the
"University of Utah Rugby Club", they violated the conditions of their
approbation, and was thereby suspended.Does that simplify things for
nosaerfoeciovehtThe answer to your question is self-evident. Any
program administered by the University of Utah represents the University of
Utah, regardless of the name adopted by the program.LOL at how
desperately you're trying to save yourself the embarrassment of Utah
administering a program that they're too embarrassed to call their own.
I should add re: "Utah rugby is part of the intramural program" that not
only does the Utah rugby team play against club teams around the state, it plays
teams from around the country, too.I can't think of a single
intramural squad here at BYU that has played an intramural squad from
California. Which makes perfect sense, seeing that intramural means "WITHIN
THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SCHOOL" (though I guess, for BYU, the world is our
campus, so it would actually make sense for a BYU intramural team to play one
from California).:)Go Cougars!
@solomonIf it's so embarrassing, why are you avoiding my
question?The only thing that's embarrassing is your continued
desperation after the facts have come out.
It's also interesting to note that Utah has no problem with its rugby
program using its name when they're doing well (i.e. inaugural 7's
tournament champs in 2010, national champ runner-ups in '02 and '05)
but when an incident occurs involving a "school rules violation on a school
van while traveling on a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED trip" in May 2012 (RugbyMag,
"More on U. Utah woes") the U immediately tries to distance themselves
from the program and force the program to change its name, even though it is
still under the direction of the University's Campus Recreation
Services.Bottom line: the rugby teams was a club team under the
direction of the university (which is why the University suspended "the
University of Utah rugby program", as every report has stated). The name
change compromise occurred in May 2012 after the university learned of school
violation on sanctioned trip.The rugby team apparently fulfilled its
end of the bargain and was allowed to play the entire 2012-2013 season...and now
we're being made to believe that the program is being suspended because
they DIDN'T change their name?Either way, it looks bad for the
Then there's this gem from the RugbyMag article "Report indicates Utah
Rugby Suspended": 'Utah Rugby actually played under a suspension of
sorts in the fall. The team and the players were registered with USA Rugby as
the Salt Lake City Rugby Club. This was part of a compromise between the
University and the team after unspecified violations related to player behavior
almost scuttled the 2012-2013 season. Utah played the fall 7s season
unofficially as the University of Utah, and their games were reported as being
played by "Utah." However in official channels they were Salt Lake City,
thus keeping the university and the team at arm's length from each
other.'So, according to this, the rugby team had already
changed its name and distanced itself from the university (even though it STILL
FALLS under the University's direction). They play the entire 2012-2013
season and NOBODY has a complaint. So why would they get suspended NOW for
mis-representing the university, when they had already changed their name?
Ok, let me get this straight: The Utah rugby team is part of the INTRAMURAL (as
in, only participates within the boundaries/confines of the school) activities
of the university, and yet plays various club teams from around the state?Yeah, that makes sense (roll my eyes). Nice spin, Utah fans.As the article states, the Rugby teams is not sanctioned by the Utah athletics
department, but rather is a sports club that falls under the direction of the
UNIVERSITY'S Campus Recreation Services. So it falls under the
direction of the UNIVERSITY. That's point #1.
nosaerfoeciovehtI love how the PACyWACers are still so up in arms
trying to deflect criticism from the embarrassing suspension of an intramural
Naval Vet"I already TOLD you. Reread my 7:13 am post earlier
today. It's right there in #2: "We were disappointed to learn the club
was using the University of Utah mark after they were instructed not
to..."I read your post, but apparently you're choosing to
ignore the obvious:The a school that has authority to discipline a
program, obviously bears ultimate responsibility for anything that program does,
regardless of the name used by the program.PROVE, that calling
themselves the "University of Utah" Rugby team is the ONLY thing that
got them suspended.Your frantic and emotional need to disassociate
the school from a program that the school administers simply proves how
embarrassing this whole situation is to Utah fans.Nobody, except
Utah apologists, cares whether Dr. Hill oversaw the Rugby program. ANY scandal
associated with Utah, reflects poorly on Utah and, by extension, Utah's
Solomon Levi:.I love that you and your fellow WACey fans are still
so up in arms over an intramural team.Simple question for you: If
they represent Utah athletics and the Pac 12 as your desperate spin implies, why
did they get suspended?
@ DuckhunterIt is clarified in my last post when I said "the
issue lies with the Rugby team and its coaches. It is not a reflection of how
Utah athletics or any other academic program at the U is operated." If you
look to a single club team to form an opinion about an entire institution, you
are severely misguided. However, with the new information that has
surfaced it is apparent that there is absolutely no foul play on behalf of the
university or its athletics department. Must be disheartening to all the BYU
fans who tried so hard to make this situation into something its not.@ backpacnThere are no club sports standards to be admitted into
the PAC-12, such as "let's roll" was implying. Why would I bring
up academic standards of a university intramural team?
Solomon Levi:"If the University of Utah Rugby Team wasn't
representing the University of Utah, what right would the U have to suspend the
team for the remainder of 2013 and the entire 2013-14 season?"I
already TOLD you. Reread my 7:13 am post earlier today. It's right there
in #2: "We were disappointed to learn the club was using the University of
Utah mark after they were instructed not to..."nosaerfoecioveht
also pointed out that the Rugby team, "...is part of Utah's INTRAMURAL
sports program." That means, as part of the University's intramual
sports program, the University DOES own some oversight. Had the
rugby team been playing as the "Salt Lake Rugby Club" rather than the
"University of Utah Rugby Club", there wouldn't have been cause for
suspension.LOL at YOUR frantic and emotional need to defend the
indefensible. That article PROVED that the Rugby team had nothing to do with
either Dr. Hill OR the Pac-12, yet here you are, STILL trying to spin it as
though it had.
nosaerfoeciovehtThe "announcement" is hilarious:The UNIVERSITY OF UTAH Rugby program was suspended by the school... blah,
blah, blahWho cares what they call themselves; the fact is the
program is overseen by the school and represents the school when they
compete.PACyWACey Utah fans who are trying to pretend that the Rugby
program doesn't represent the UNIVERSITY OF UTAH are only fooling
Reasons for the suspension reported today:"Rugby, which is part
of Utah's INTRAMURAL sports program, was originally suspended last
fall...""We were disappointed to learn the club was using
the University of Utah mark after they were instructed not to last
year...""The Salt Lake City Rugby Club tried to compete as
the University of Utah, which the school deemed to be a misappropriation of its
name..."Classic! A lot of WACey 'fans' on this thread
are wiping egg off their faces right now.LOL!
@2fer"Nobody has tried to claim that Rugby does not represent
the university. Just that they don't represent U of U athletics." Actually you did, on page 3 of this very thread. Here's the
quote""To anyone saying this is a reflection of the conf.,
THE UNIVERSITY, or even the athletics department; you are wrong."It is obviously a "reflection of the university". That said I think it
is to bad and feel bad for the players themselves, utah had a very good rugby
Naval VetLOL at your frantic and emotional spin.If the
University of Utah Rugby Team wasn't representing the University of Utah,
what right would the U have to suspend the team for the remainder of 2013 and
the entire 2013-14 season?Sorry, but the U can't have it both
ways. Either the Utah Rugby team represents Utah, or the U has absolutely no
authority to govern any aspect of the team.
twofer"Yes, there are academic standards to be a member of the
PAC-12. There are not club sports standards."You are so far into
denial it's almost painful to observe. If there aren't any academic
standards for club teams, what exactly does David Kinikini, University of Utah
Rugby Club Academic and Team Advisor do?The only reason this
isn't a bigger story outside of the Wasatch Front is because the PAC 12 is
absorbing an even bigger black eye because of their conference referee scandal.
Utah Rugby, like all other athletic programs at the U, outside of the Red Rocks,
is small potatoes.
Duckhunter:"LOL at the 'frantic and emotional'
attempts to pretend that the univeristy of utah rugby team does not represent
the university of utah...LOL!"LOL at you! Now that more
information had come out, it appears your desparate attempts to align the Rugby
team to the U was an epic failure. Google "Utah rugby: Future
of club team remains uncertain". There it says...(1) "The
University of Utah rugby program was suspended by the school for the rest of the
2013 season as well as the 2013-14 season after using the university’s
name without permission..."(2) "We were disappointed to
learn the club was using the University of Utah mark after they were instructed
not to last year."(3) "Rugby Magazine reported that the
[Utah] team and players registered with USA Rugby as the Salt Lake City rugby
club."Well, that's what you get for jumping to conclusions
before all the facts are revealed. The "Salt Lake City rugby club" was
NOT "represent[ing] the university of utah". They weren't allowed
Guys, this is such a huge black eye for utah athletics. Responsible corrective
action being taken where it looks like some kids on a club team needed
responsible corrective action. It's the only thing they've been
talking about on ESPN for days. Huge national story- I'm surprised the
Pac12 is letting Utah keep its membership.
@ let's rollYes, there are academic standards to be a member of
the PAC-12. There are not club sports standards. I guarantee you this story
doesn't even register on the PAC-12's radar.The PAC-12
might take interest if there were some sort of mass scandal going on in the
academia at the U because it would indicate deep administrative problems which
would weaken the profile of the school. However, if that was the case the
outside world look at the situation and see that the University of Utah was
having problems and was corrupt. It would not reflect well on the PAC-12 only
because Utah is a member, but it would not indicate that PAC-12 itself was
corrupt.Likewise, in the Rugby case, the issue lies with the Rugby
team and its coaches. It is not a reflection of how Utah athletics or any other
academic program at the U is operated.
Just curious...aren't all these folks focused on telling us the Rugby team
has nothing to do with the Athletic Department or the PAC-12 the same ones
who've been saying for years that the U was invited to join the PAC-12
because of the Medical School, being a well-regarded "research
institution" and numerous other non-Athletic Department criteria. If, as they contend, such non-Athletic Department criteria are important in
evaluating Universities for potential admission into the conference because they
lend to the prestige of the Confernce, it doesn't make sense to argue that
the PAC-12 wouldn't worry about scandals impacting sports teams at the U
tarnishing the reputation of the Conference, regardless of affiliation with the
Athletic Department. By their own logic, a scandel at the Medical
school would tarnish the PAC-12, as would scandals with the Rugby and Swimming
teams. They ought to at least remain consistent in their logic (or lack of
Psstttttttttt. Eddie.........your obsession is showing.
RedsNation:The comments being made are desparate Indy-WACish
attempts to tie the Rugby team to Utah's Athletic Dept. and/or the Pac-12.
And that would be a giant FAIL!As for myself, I don't know what
it is the Rugby team is alleged to have done, but you don't exactly hear me
defending the Rugby team against their sanctioning board either. All you hear
me defending is Dr. Hill, the Athletic Dept, and the Pac-12, in that they
have/had nothing to do with it.Now if you'd like to refute that
fact, then by all means...let's hear it. If not, then what was the point
of your addressing me?
I, for one, believe that things run deep when you uncover two or more major
things at a university sports program. I would like to see the NCAA come in and
do a major scanning of the u. There is something rotten on the hill and it has
to run deep. The Athletics department has to be getting tired of running around
with their shovels trying to cover up anything and everything that is happening
now.Add all this to the recent standings in the Pac 10.2 of the
Football and Basketball teams and what you have is a devalued university where
it will be very difficult to recruit the next few years.
@ DuckhunterNobody has tried to claim that Rugby does not represent
the university. Just that they don't represent U of U athletics. @ Snack PACRugby is a popular club team, but they are still
a CLUB team. For some reason BYU fans are desperate to tie this to Utah's
athletic department and Chris Hill, but they are simply not related.
Snack WAC:Where are Dr. Hill's or Larry Scott's name on
that list? Are you saying that the Athletic Dept. and the Pac-12 have nothing
to do with the Rugby team?Because you'll get no argument from
us on that. In fact, we've been saying that all along; ever since pg 1 of
this comment thread.
It appears the majority of the comments are whether the team is sponsored or
affiliated with the University of Utah. Read the article - It says "The
University of Utah rugby team". Now look at the photos - The jersey's
have the University of Utah logo on them. If they call themselves the Univerity
of Utah and they wear the logo, they represent the University of Utah regardless
of the level of official support. With that said, I am more interested in what
happened. That's a harsh penalty for an entire team. One from which may
take a long time to recover. Is the University setting things up to drop the
sport completely? I hope not.
2013 Player RegistrationA $400.00 University of Utah Rugby Club fee will
be accessed [sic] per player.CoachesBlake Burdette-Head
CoachCamden Burd-Team PresidentRob Kingsford-DevelopmentJosh
Cox-Strength CoachBill Hadfield-General ManagerRichard J
Ingebretsen, MD, PhD-Team DoctorHillary Williams-TrainerDavid
Kinikini-Academic & Team AdvisorKelsey Price-Information Director
& Media ContactSeems like a lot of "coaches" for an
"ultimate Frisbee"-like team. If the team isn't associated with the
U, why do they refer to themselves as the "University of Utah Rugby
Club" on their registration form and why, pray tell, 2fer, do they have an
Academic Advisor? And, why do they have an "official" student cheering
section called the "Rugby Ruckus"?Sorry, U can run from this
rugby fiasco, but U can't hide. Another black eye for Utah athletics.
LOL at the "frantic and emotional" attempts to pretend that the
univeristy of utah rugby team does not represent the university of utah.LOL!
It obvious that women's gymnastics and basketball has now become the future
of U of U sports. It's time to make a bold statement with the continuing
demise of U men sports like football, basketball, and now rugby.The
timing could not be better. Time to transition the U to just women's
Swimming, rugby, what's next? Does Utah have to do it the wrong way in an
effect to compete? Seems so, yet football and basketball have been simply
embarrassing in the PAC.
The bottom line is this: do the players on the team have to be current students
of the university to play or not? If they do, then it is a black eye to the
university whether or not they are a scholarship sport. Why is this so hard for
some fans to understand?
UU. The Ohio State of the intermountain west. Utah fans must be so proud.
As a Utah alum and fan, I'm embarrassed by what has been happening with
Utah's athletic programs recently. First, the swimming coach abusing
swimmers in a manner that would make the Rutgers abuse seem tame, if the abuse
had been video-taped. And now, Utah Rugby players acting so inappropriately that
the entire program is suspended for over a year.What's going on
up on the hill, Dr. Hill? Is anybody in charge?
2ferWe all thought denial was a river in Egypt, but it apparently
flows freely from the hill.You must buy Dramamine by the case to
control dizziness from all of your spin.Bottom line, one of the best
men's sports teams on the hill was just hit with significant sanctions by
the university - sanctions that Utah fans should be lamenting instead of trying
to pretend that they don't care.
twofer"How could it possibly give athletics a black eye when it
isn't affiliated with athletics?"Because the general public
COULDN'T CARE LESS whether Chris Hill or some official in the Utah
Recreation Department oversees Utah Rugby - it's a sport played by
University of Utah students who officially represent the university.Are you really so naive as to believe that 99.9% of fans on the street
aren't going to associate Utah Rugby with Utah Athletics?Perception is reality, regardless of how much you would like to pretend
2fer"Rugby is a club sport, just like ultimate Frisbee and
fencing."LOL at the spin!Here's a dose of
reality:Block U, a Utah Utes community, Jun 6 2010"Good news for those who follow rugby, as the Utes beat the top-seeded Cal
Bears to claim the first ever USA Sevens Collegiate Championship. Utah won 31-26 in overtime on the nationally televised event."hmmm, nationally televised event, for a Utah sport that's "just like
ultimate Frisbee"?It's funny how the article didn't
even hint that Utah Rugby was ONLY a "club" sport.It was the
Utah Utes versus the Cal Bears - big time sport; big time win; big time
embarrassment for a school that had to shut down its program because of major
behavior issues of its players.
@ Solomon LeviHow could it possibly give athletics a black eye when
it isn't affiliated with athletics? Chris Hill, and his staff, have
nothing to do with it. Therefore whatever problem rugby is having is local to
only the rugby team. It is not an indication that there is a lack of
institutional control in the athletics department. Campus recreation is as
closely related to Utah Athletics as the College of Nursing is.
twofer"Rugby is not affiliated with athletics anymore than the
women's table tennis or quiddich teams are."You can believe
that if it helps you sleep at night, but, I'll bet you've NEVER seen a
build up to a Utah women's table tennis match like this write up in
RugbyMag:"04 APRIL 2012Wasatch Cup Could be Game of
the YearThis coming weekend is Rivalry Weekend in D1-A college
rugby, and no game is more anticipated, or more important, than BYU v. Utah.Both BYU and Utah are undefeated in the West Conference – the
Cougars are 4-0 and Utah 3-0 – and neither has really been tested too much
in getting there."The truth is, besides football, men's
basketball, and the Red Rocks, Utah Rugby is the most high profile team on the
hill.Suspending Utah Rugby gives the entire athletic department a
huge black eye. The public couldn't care less whether Rugby is a club sport
or an NCAA-sanctioned sport. Like it or not, Utah Rugby still represents the
University of Utah.
@ TroyTown"....and specifically on Utah's
athletics."You are wrong. Rugby is not affiliated with
athletics anymore than the women's table tennis or quiddich teams are.
navelvetIt's all very simple - the University of Utah Rugby
program has been suspended by the school for the rest of the 2012-13 season and
will miss all of the 2013-14 season because of unspecified player behavior,
according to Rugby USA - another Utah athletic program embarrasses the school so
disgracefully that Utah won't even discuss the specifics of why it was
forced to take such drastic measures.
twofer"The rugby team being suspended is really no different
than an intramural team being suspended."Who do you think
you're kidding? A club team, like the UTAH Rugby team, competes
against teams from across the country and is an OFFICIAL representative of the
University of Utah. EVERYTHING they do, good or bad, reflects on the entire
school, and specifically on Utah's athletics.An intramural team
represents nobody but themselves.Any Utah fan who thinks the
suspension of the Rugby team on top of the Swimming abuse scandal doesn't
give the entire school another black eye is being extremely naive.
@ slsIf that were true, why is basketball worth ten points and
gymnastics is worth three?@ Real BassWhy? I am not
involved with campus recreation at all.To anyone saying this is a
reflection of the conf., the university, or even the athletics department; you
are wrong. The rugby team being suspended is really no different than an
intramural team being suspended. Campus rec. oversees both.
I bet they could close down all sports because they cheat up their.
After the swimming fiasco at the U, all one has to do is have an active
imagination to see this rugby program swept clean off the mat. Sounds like a
scandal of some kind that they are not willing to discuss to anyone, especially
on Facebook! I agree; I think the U owes some kind of explanation to their
I think that some of you ought to look into what all an Athletic Director really
does or is suppose to do at a University. If he is not looking at even the Club
teams, he is not worth the money he is being paid. There are others who can
watch over these things also. It seems to me that there are a "bunch" of
these people who should hit the road at the u due to their oversite of things
the past couple of years.Stop and think about how much money they
make and how many assistant's they have and all one can do is shake your
head and wonder what they do all day.Some AD's earn their bucks
(BYU) while others just want to ride the coat tails of their conference at the
expense of the student athletes. How sad!
More frantic and emotional spin from the kids on the hill. We all know that
these same crimson bubble dwellers who are frantically trying to distance
themselves and the U from Utah's rugby team, wouldn't have hesitated
for a second to beat their chests IF the Utes had managed to pull off an upset
of BYU in the Wasatch Cup.First swimming, now rugby - athletics on
the hill are becoming more and more a disgrace.
Darn shame. I hope the Utes program can regroup in 2015. At first they'll
be fine but as the months go by... expect some serious attrition, Utes.
As for the utah rugby team getting scrapped this season, well that is a shame.
utah had a good rugby team and now those kids have no opportunity to finish out
this year. That is a shame.
@jdub1942"As for BYU they don't have to follow this law
because they are a private university, yet they choose to anyway."I wish that were the case but it is not. Any university that accepts any
federal money at all, and that includes federally backed student loans, grants,
or other tuition aid, is required to adhere to Title 9. Title 9 is the law that
decreed "equality" between the genders in sports although the actual
enforcement of it is anything but "equal".BYU did once have
a good wrestling program, it also has a men's gymnastics program, but they
were ended in order to comply with Title 9. The BYU mens soccer program is
actually more than a club sport but it does not participate as an NCAA
sanctioned sport. It instead plays in a professional league and is funded by the
university but because it competes as a pro team it does not fall under the NCAA
or Title 9.
That helps me out jdub. It's too bad because I think both schools could
benefit from all of these sports. Oh well it is what it is.I am a
Utah fan but I say good luck to all Utah schools. From Utah, BYU, USU on down
to Westminster. When they do good the State of Utah does good. And I am sure
we all want that.Thanks for the insight.
Lot of haters on here (I wont pretend to know what school they cheer for as none
of us have any idea). Lots of people who don't care about any sport but
football and basketball, yet all of a sudden want to post crap when there is
something they can use to attack others. This is of course done in order to
hide their own insecurities.
Sid 6.7,My question to both BYU and Utah is why aren't Rugby,
Wrestling and Soccer sanctioned sports at these schools?Because it
is law that Public universities have equal sports for both men and women. As
for BYU they don't have to follow this law because they are a private
university, yet they choose to anyway. BYU actually used to have a good
Quick to hug the PAC 12 banner when it suits you and quick to deflect any
semblance of wrongdoing when it discredits the Conference of Champions, even if
just by association.Yes, we all know it is a club sport and the NCAA
is not the governing body, but the university has oversight, hence the quote:
"U of U officials suspended..."Don't worry though,
Commissioner Scott is too busy with a referee scandal to worry about little
'ol Utah (club sport) Rugby. You're safe.
My son is in his Sr. Year in High School and was approached by the U of U. They
asked him to come out and be part of the Wrestling Club. He has been to about 7
of the practices and I can assure you they only have two things that connect
them to the school. 1. They use the name and colors.2. And
the aspire to one day be an official sanctioned sport at the U.Other
than that, they have nothing to do with the school. They have to borrow
mat's from High Schools who will let them borrow them. They usually
practice at a High School. They also pay for everything through fundraisers,
donations or personal funds. The Rugby team is the same way. The
team could change their name and be on their way but I am sure Hill told them if
they wanted to use the U name in the future that they would pull up stakes and
cease operations for the year. It's easy to understand.My
question to both BYU and Utah is why aren't Rugby, Wrestling and Soccer
sanctioned sports at these schools?
UteNationAlum,GREAT comment. There's a lot of silliness on this
thread by both Ute fans and Cougar fans.Props to the U of U for
taking action on whatever's going on despite it being just a club sport.
@Two For Flinching,I would think that the players care very
much....and so much other u fans since they read the article and are commenting
on it. If they didn't care, they would not read the article.
Except for the first sentence, good comment UteNationAlum. You should have also
included "insecurity and immaturity of Ute fans. "Little Brother"
this, and "WAC/INDY" that... blah, blah, blah."Though
your subsequent sentences acknowledge guilt on both sides, you pretty much
discredit the whole comment with the first sentence.
This post really shows the insecurity and immaturity of Cougar fans.
"Little Brother" this, "Pac 10.2" that... blah, blah, blah. What should really be said is good on you Utah for putting an end to
whatever was happening with the Rugby program. I have never
understood why both sides - Utes and Cougars - attack each other when someone in
a program makes a mistake. Like when Davies made a mistake and BYU basketball
held him out of the NCAA tourny. Ute fans were quick to jump on that and
criticize the program for the mistakes of one individual. GOOD ON YOU BYU for
making a player stick to the honor code... and in this case GOOD ON YOU Utes for
putting an end to whatever waas going on.
Utah men's soccer is also a club sport and BYU just demolished the U in
soccer. This falls right in line with the Deseret First Duel where the utes
negotiated high point values for sports where they are semi-competitive and low
point values for the rest. In club sports, they suspend the program because it
won't look good to lose to BYU.
3grandslams: "Things are imploding at the U. Chris Hill is now covering all
is bases because this swim thing has him in the cross hairs. This rugby fiasco
will also get swept under the rug. Maybe another BYU athlete will go after
someone for throwing water ballons, that will keep reporters busy for weeks.
Scandal at the U? Meh."Post of The Year! Utah's media is
just that - "Utah's" media.
Juggernaut @ "HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CONFERENCE AFFILIATION"Neither does your football team not qualifying for a bowl game or your
basketball team fading into years of irrelevance, or your swim program in the
midst of an Athletic Director sanctioned scandal cover up necessarily have
anything to do with conference affiliation. But they all still make the
university, AND the PAC look bad.Go ahead and stick to your story.
Spin away with Navel Vet. It still doesn't bode well that the news adds
"Utah suspended" to it's headlines, regardless of what conference
or club it's affiliated with. It's all "University of Utah".
NavelVet, all this "you're welcome" without giving a thanks to
deductive reasoning for explaining why this, like your swimming program, casts a
bad light on the U and the PAC? Not to mention the stellar basketball program
and a football team whose only bowl game last year was in September.Go ahead deductive reasoning, tell Navel Vet "you're welcome"
We are just going to have to keep saying it until it finally sets in, RUGBY IS A
CLUB SPORT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CONFERENCE AFFILIATION. This isn't a
huge black eye by any means since it is a club sport and is up to students
having to pay their own expenses to join the team.
Two For Flinching: who cares? You should!!!
SamoanYfan:"This has been difficult to wrapped around my
Indy-WACey mind to comprehend. Thanks for laying it out so clearly because non
[sic] of us Y fans knew that it was a club and not sanctioned by the
NCAA."Yes. Clearly. You're welcome. TruBlue,
toosmartforyou, EdGrady, 3grandslams, sammyg:You're welcome to
all of you too!
Rugby is a club sport at the U of U and is administered by the Campus Recreation
Dept. The administration of that department, up through its VP and the Dean of
Students is carrying out a vendetta against the rugby team. Their actions need
to be fully explained and compared with actions taken against other teams and
athletes in similar circumstances. Why are club sports and their athletes
treated differently than scholarship athletes and teams under the administration
of the athletic department? Clearly a case of discrimination. The true story
needs to be told.
Naval Vet said it right.
navelvetLOL at your spin:(1) Rugby is not an NCAA sport.
It's a "club" sport. Therefore, Dr. Hill has nothing to do with
it."University of Utah officials have suspended the rugby team
from playing the 2013-14 season and reportedly put the program under long term
probation"So who are these "mysterious" UofU officials
who suspended the Utah rugby team?(2) As Rugby is not an NCAA sport,
it's governing board is not the Pac-12. Therefore, the Pac-12 has nothing
to do with it either.Who cares whether the PAC 12 is the
"governing board", ANYTHING that casts discredit on a PAC 12 institution
casts discredit on the conference, whether it involves an NCAA-sanctioned sport,
a club sport, or anything else associated with the university.
Naval Vet: Are you saying the Rugby team has nothing to do with the U? Are you
saying they are only a club team using the U's name, logo's and mascot
but have nothing to do with the University? If you are, there is something even
more strange going on. Maybe instead of the Rugby team being suspended for,
"violating University Policies", they were really suspended for being
imposters!Or I might suggest Naval Vet, you are being very naive.
Rugby is a club sport, just like ultimate Frisbee and fencing. It has nothing
to do with the Utah athletic department. It begs the question...who cares?
Naval Vet:This has been difficult to wrapped around my Indy-WACey
mind to comprehend. Thanks for laying it out so clearly because non of us Y
fans knew that it was a club and not sanctioned by the NCAA. But since it's
not all the more reason to sweep it under the rug. But who really cares anyways?
Because at least you're in the PAC12 and football is all that matters
Let's see if I understand:U football player assaults and
threatens his wife, U swim coach assaults his players, U athletic director
ignores it, U Rugby team suspended without explanation for entire season.Which newspaper, news outlet, news reporter is going to do some real
investigation and give the pubic answers? Brad Rock? Lee Robinson? Mike Grant?
Robert Jackson? Patrick Kinahan (he's so enamored with Anae interviews,
this has certainly got to be news with him)?
Utah Rubgy must have been invited to join the PAC12 conference and playing the
tough PAC12 competition week in and week out proves difficult to schedule BYU,
therefore, it's not longer in their best interest to continue the rivalry.
3grandslams:"Things are imploding at the U. Chris Hill is now
covering all is [sic] bases..."There seems to be an awful lot of
Y fans commenting on Hill and the Pac-12, so to put all your Indy-WACey minds at
ease, allow me to clear things up for you a bit...(1) Rugby is not
an NCAA sport. It's a "club" sport. Therefore, Dr. Hill has
nothing to do with it.(2) As Rugby is not an NCAA sport, it's
governing board is not the Pac-12. Therefore, the Pac-12 has nothing to do with
Big time athletic problems come with wannabe big time conference programs. I love my WCC affiliation with the an independent football twist and my
'little' church school environment.
Hmmm...runnin Utes runnin scared.
Things are imploding at the U. Chris Hill is now covering all is bases because
this swim thing has him in the cross hairs. This rugby fiasco will also get
swept under the rug. Maybe another BYU athlete will go after someone for
throwing water ballons, that will keep reporters busy for weeks. Scandal at the
Another question, what team can replace Utah in the Varsity Cup ? Maybe one of
the Canadian clubs ? UBC or Simon Frasure ?
More scandal at the pride of the Pac-12? Shocking!
Too bad and the U rugby always has a great team. Have to admire the fact that
someone had the courage to do what was needed. The ones I feel sorry for are
the players (probably many of them) that did not do anything wrong and are
punished for the others stupidity. The U always gives the Y all they
can handle in Rugby. It is that rivalry thing again. Will not
comment as I have no clue as to what the issue is but I hope they clear it up
and move forward. Too good of a program to see die.
Wow. More trouble on the hill. I hope that some partisans
won't accuse BYU of being "holier-than-thou" or deserving critisicm
because "they supposedly live a higher standard" due to the BYU Coach
being interviewed and commenting about the situation. I hope Utah
gets its athletic troubles solved. This must be another embarrassment to the
PAC 12, unfortunately. I hope things get settled. Maybe after the facts are
known there will be some personnel changes at the U; maybe not. I'll not
comment further about that, leaving the Ute supporters to raise that
hue-and-cry, until I see what happens. Good luck to all those who
were counting on this being a good, successful program. I hope it rebounds.
I don't blame Chris Hill. No doubt he wanted to spare yet another Utah team
from being decimated on the field by the Mighty Cougars!GO COUGS!
2012 National Rugby Champions!
Ouch! C'mon UU. What is going on?
Herriman (defending Utah State Champs) plays Boise Capital (defending Idaho
State Champs) on Saturday at 2pm at Herriman Stadium. Should be a great game as
both are ranked in the top 25 nationally - I believe Herriman is 4th and Capital
What is the deal with Utah ? Why is it that BYU has to tell the rugby world
about Utah ? Is anyone in charge of Utah rugby ?Utah owes an honest
statement to the Varsity Cup teams and to rugby fans about its problems.
Unfortunately, there aren't really any High School matches this weekend due
to spring break. Sad day for Utah Rugby, hopefully they can get this all
squared away and get back on the pitch.
Sorry, but this is just another example of the little brother trying to keep up
with Big Brother and will try to do anything to keep up. They got caught and now
they will lose yet another sports program. What else is going on at a school
that will try to keep up with the conference they are in. Just listen to their
fan base, sports is more important to them than education.
BYU Rugby is the epitome of what college athletics should be-- both on and off
the field. I have family in New Zealand who informs me that BYU Rugby is known
as an American ambassador of the sport. Good on ya, mates! (Thanks DNews for
your growing coverage.)
What is going on in SLC? First the swimming program, and now this?