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Defending the Faith: Every man, woman and child is a child of God

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  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    March 21, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    "And the so-called "lamellai," or "golden plates,"...take a position remarkably like Paul's own argument."

    Wow, what an amazing stretch of reasoning! Peterson's continued attempts to create assumed associations in order to advance an allusion of probability are remarkable. And to cleverly insert "golden plates" into the discussion, knowing it resonates with Latter Day Saints, is a stroke of apologetic genius.

    The Pyrgi lamellae is a series of three inscriptions on rolls of gold foil, two of which were written in Etruscan. There is no literal translation available of the Etruscan plates. Although the sound of the Etruscan letters is known, we simply don't understand the meaning of their words. It's almost impossible to precisely understand their texts because their language seems not to belong to any known group.

    A rough "transliteration" (much different than translation) of these plates is available and suggests they are nothing more than a dedication of a divinity statue to the Phoenician goddess Astarte.

    I'm not quite sure how Peterson can make the connection that these plates somehow produce corroborating evidence for an LDS belief that we are of the same genus with God.

  • fkratz Portland, OR
    March 21, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    Zig Ziglar told the story of "Little Ben Hooper", a story which his audiences enjoyed for decades. I respected Zig Ziglar, not because he was a Christian, but because he was a rarely flinching eternal optimist who looked for, and found, the best in humanity, which he offered to anyone who would listen.

    Many believe we are all children of God, and though I have personal doubts, such a belief system can only make the planet a safer place if people act on that belief, daily.

    To me, Pope Francis could be the beacon we need in these turbulent times. If one man can impact hundreds of millions to do better, then all things seem possible. And it shouldn't stop with him as religious leaders everywhere could come together to act and help tackle the problems we all face.

  • Verdad Orem, UT
    March 21, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    And Peterson's article mentioned the specific Pyrgi lamellai where, exactly?

  • Kjirstin Youngberg Mapleton, UT
    March 21, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    If, indeed, we believe in a divine creation~that we were formed of the dust of the universe by the God of us all~we must conclude we are all "of God" as it was He (or They, as recorded in many ancient texts of Genesis) who created us. As He has no limitations, and is in fact the God of the complete universe, it stands to reason we will one day meet His children of galaxies distant from our own. God is said to reign on a planet near Kolob, which does not even appear to be within our own Milky Way. Would that make Him an extraterrestrial to a non-believer or His own?

    It is far past time to do away with petty differences and distinctions between belief systems, races, genders, ages, wealth, caste or infirmities. We are all children of God within one universe. God who knows when a sparrow falls, and when any living thing dies, that change is felt by distant stars. His command to "love one another" remains unheeded.

    If we expect to meet our genera on other worlds, we must first love all upon our own.

    Read: Moses. Watch: YouTube - fractal geometry.

  • Michigander Westland, MI
    March 21, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    Again Dr. Peterson brings forth many doctrinal errors:

    Jesus Christ is the ONLY Begotten of the Father (which event occurred before all things were created in heaven and on earth by the Father, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, AND by the Son, whose name alone is Jesus Christ).

    We are ADOPTED into the family of God ONLY thru the atonement of Jesus Christ, and then and only then do we become the sons and daughters of God. We are the offspring of God in the sense that we are adopted into what will be the one and only one family in eternity - the family of God. There will be no families in the new heaven and new earth. There will be no social barriers that naturally exist here in this life.

    Also, we are all the offspring of God only in the sense that all people who have ever been born on earth have a soul or spirit created by God in their mother's womb at conception only, Jesus Christ of course being the ONLY exception.

    Finally, the delusion of God's wife, the Eternal Mother in Heaven Goddess, contradicts Isa.43:10 and Isa.44:8 to start.

  • Kazbert VAIL, AZ
    March 21, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    We are all children of God, but we don't all act like it.

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    March 21, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    Peterson's reference was "And the so-called "lamellai," or "golden plates," that have been found in tombs in Thessaly, Crete and Italy take a position remarkably like Paul's own argument."

    The "lamellai" or "golden plates" I’m aware of found in "Italy" were the Pyrgi Lamellae -- gold plates excavated from a sanctuary on the Tyrrhenian coast of Italy. These golden plates have nothing to do with a Pauline argument that we all are of the same genus with God.

    When referring to "lamellai" or "golden plates" found in Italy, it's difficult to believe that he wasn't referring to the Pyrgi Lamellae gold plates. Of course, I could be wrong and would invite Peterson to correct my deduction -- I'm willing to admit my mistaken assumption.

    However, if Peterson was indeed referring to the Pyrgi Lamellae gold plates found in Italy, I would be very interested in how he draws his conclusion that these plates "take a position remarkably like Paul’s own argument."

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    March 21, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    I agree with Dan Peterson completely and disagree with Michigander. The context of the Isaiah scriptures was to teach against worshiping stone idols, as Israel's neighbors did. Read the verses after Isaiah 44:8. These scriptures were never meant to address the deeper questions of a Heavenly Mother, pro or con. Most ancient peoples believed in many gods, who, like the Greek gods, were always competing with each other. On the other hand, LDS worship one Godhead, who are all one with each other (not physically however, but still very unified) and believe that other gods may also exist, but they do not compete with each other. They are also one with each other. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father in the flesh - the only mortal ever born who had God for the father not only of his spirit, but of his body too. This does not mean God isn't the father of the rest of our spirits, as Hebrews 12:9 reminds us. God being the literal Father of all, not some force that fills space, was one of the things I learned to really appreciate on my mission when I found so many who believe otherwise.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    March 21, 2013 6:07 p.m.

    @Michigander

    Christ is the only PHYSICALLY begotten son of God.

    God is the literal father of all our spirits.

    Does really make any logical sense that we do not have an Heavenly Mother? No. it defies reason.

    Family is clearly an eternal concept.

  • Jesus Loves U kaysville, UT
    March 21, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    So when one thinks that Jesus is the literal begotten of the Father, means in Mormonism that God the Father came upon Mary in a physical form and had an intimate relationship with her. This is so contrary to what the bible teaches and is biblically incorrrect and false. She Mary was a virgin. God came down in flesh and this God was spoken by the Book of Mormon, Mosiah 7: 26 And a prophet of the Lord have they slain; yea, a chosen man of God, who told them of their wickedness and abominations, and prophesied of many things which are to come, yea, even the coming of Christ.
    27 And because he said unto them that Christ was THE GOD, the Father of ALL things,

  • Jesus Loves U kaysville, UT
    March 21, 2013 6:36 p.m.

    We are all creations of God but not God's children until we become His child. We are considered "filthy rags to God" because we all all connected to sin. Once we become free of sin through Jesus Christ and believe in Him and Him alone for our salvation, then we become a child of His. We are not until that happens. John 1:12-13..

  • Michigander Westland, MI
    March 21, 2013 7:02 p.m.

    @ the truth:

    Christ is the ONLY Begotten of the Father before the heavens and earth and all things that in them were ever created. He (Jesus) is before all things. Only means only - once - one time.

    God is the Father of our spirits or souls only thru the adoption that comes by faith in Christ Jesus.

    Eternal Mother in Heaven Goddess (God's wife) is blasphemy. Only God the Eternal Father can bring forth an Only Begotten Son. That is why He is the Omnipotent God.

    The one Family of God is an eternal concept. Families in the flesh are for this life only.

  • Michigander Westland, MI
    March 21, 2013 8:17 p.m.

    @RG:

    "... other gods may also exist, but they do not compete with each other." This is totally absurd and contradicts the following:

    Isa.43:10: "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

    Isa.44:8: Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

    These means there are no other Gods or Goddesses in heaven as well as on earth, whether stone or any other object.

  • Verdad Orem, UT
    March 21, 2013 9:39 p.m.

    Michigander (and even more so) Jesus Loves U:

    Professor Peterson has published (in this column) an actual argument against your position. Simply repeating your position yet again doesn't exactly respond to the argument that he's made.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    March 21, 2013 9:51 p.m.

    Michigander: Sorry but the verses you site are actually referencing Jehovah, not Elohim. This is where Jehovah spells out that it is I AM. This is one reason the Jews of the New Testament denied Jesus Christ as he stated he was I Am. Continue reading. Again you like Sharrona only see what you want to see and not the entire discourse it presents. As has been noted Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost make up the God Head. This is perfectly taught in the First Vision and through out the New Testament. The God of the Old Testament is Jehovah but as many Christian Sects do the disavow a lot of what the Old Testament says. In many ways they actually deny the Old Testament.

  • Jesus Loves U kaysville, UT
    March 21, 2013 10:27 p.m.

    Bill,
    The God, the only God of the OT is Yahweh, Jehovah, the Almighty God, The Great I AM, they are all the same God. No where in the OT does God come up with Elohim? Show me in the scriptures where Elohim is even mentioned? There is no claim of a Father in the OT only God, this God came down in flesh as the NT clearly supports. He is called Immanuel, "God with Us". He is the word, who is God, He came down in flesh as John 1:14 supports. The Father appeared in the NT because, God the Father is spirit and His son is made of a tablernacle of clay. In Collosians 2:9, it states in Christ, that in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead. God the Father is not flesh, it's impossible, Jesus couldn't indwell God the Father in physical form, only God the Spirit. Hope this makes sense..

  • Michigander Westland, MI
    March 21, 2013 11:25 p.m.

    @ Bill in Nebraska:

    The Father has always been called JEHOVAH and the Son has always been called Jesus Christ from the very beginning.

    "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High [God] over all the earth." (Psalm 83:18).

    "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have light and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters." (Ether 3:14).

    Elohim is just the Hebrew plural word for "the Father and the Son" forever linked together by the Holy Ghost, which is the mind of the Father and the Son per 1Cor.2:10-16 and Philip.2:5.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    March 21, 2013 11:28 p.m.

    RE: Bill in Nebraska, Acts 17:28-29 ‘For in him we live and move and have our BEING[Creation is dependent on God for its very existence,Ex Nihlo] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ “Therefore since we are God’s offspring (genos)…”.
    True,generically speaking God created man. But,

    The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship= (*huiothesia,5206) And by him we cry, **Abba, Father.(Romans 8:15)

    * The Greek word for adoption to sonship is a term referring to the full legal standing of an adopted male heir in Roman culture.
    ** Aramaic for father.

    (John 1:12) Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right=(,Authority,exousia,1849) to “become children of God”.

    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them(John 3:36)

  • Bubbamike Seattle, WA
    March 22, 2013 12:01 a.m.

    Christ told us to love one another but reading these comments show that he told us in vain.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    March 22, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    "Wow, what an amazing stretch of reasoning!"

    That was a rather poorly-informed attack on the excellent work of Dr. Peterson. It took but a couple of minutes to find the translation in question, which was quoted faithfully by Dr. Peterson: "They will ask you with keen mind what is your quest in the gloom of deadly Hades. They will ask you for what reason you have come. Tell them the whole truth straight out. Say: 'I am the child of Earth and starry Heaven, but of Heaven is my birth: this you know yourselves. I am parched with thirst and perishing: give me quickly chill water flowing from the pool of Memory.' Assuredly the kings of the underworld take pity on you, and will themselves give you water from the spring divine; then you, when you have drunk, traverse the holy path which other initiates and bacchants tread in glory."

    We most assuredly are of divine origin.

  • EternalPerspective Eldersburg, MD
    March 22, 2013 7:52 a.m.

    Michigander

    I respect your views on the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Nothing said here may change them. However, consider the idea of the trinity where all three members of the Godhead are one being.

    If we are the children of God (whether by adoption or everyone), then how could our mortal bodies come from a being that has three incarnations? Does this not make God impersonal?

    For Paul in the New Testament mentioned "God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord" at the beginning of nearly every epistle. Why would Paul distinguish these two beings, as well as make separate mention of the Holy Ghost in many passages?

    Jesus Himself appeared as a resurrected being to the Apostles and other Saints after His mortal death. He ate fish with the Apostles and had a body of flesh and bones. How could this be if they were separate beings? Also, on the mount of transfiguration, God the Father appeared in a cloud while Jesus was speakking with Moses and Esais.

    The list goes on and on with scriptural refrences in the Bible to prove the Godhead is three separate personages and not all one being.

  • Jesus Loves U kaysville, UT
    March 22, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Pops,
    Please provide scriptural reference from what you wrote..Thanks..

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    March 22, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    Pops: What on earth are you quoting? What are these "golden plates" that you claim Peterson quoted faithfully?

    The inference in his article is the so-called "lamella" or "golden plates" found in Italy and other places support a Pauline argument that we all are of the same genus with God.

    A rough translation of the Pyrgi Lamellae or “golden plates” found on the Tyrrhenian coast of Italy:

    "This temple and (this) statue have been dedicated to Uni / Astarte. Thefariei Velianas, head of the community, donated it for the worship of our peoples. This gift of this temple and sanctuary and the consecration of its boundaries during his three year term in the month of Xurvar (June?) in this way, and in Alsase (July?) this record together with the divinity/statue shall thus be buried by order of the Zilach that the years may outlast the stars."

    I see no such connection on these "golden plates" that "We most assuredly are of divine origin."

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    March 22, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    @WSG - you're quoting the wrong plates (e.g., search for "totenpass"). My last statement was meant as a summary agreement with Dr. Peterson's assessment, not an assertion that the gold plates in question constitute solitary proof of anything. They serve as evidence.

    @JLU - given that I didn't quote any scripture, it would be rather difficult to provide a scriptural reference.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    March 22, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    Many (most) of the believers pay lip-service to this idea that "we are all children of god", but the reality is I have never been as mistreated, denigrated, judged, condemned, and abused as I have been by my supposed "brothers and sisters" in this children-of-god belief system.

    And I am not alone. I have countless stories to support this mistreatment of "non-members".

    The believers will "disfellowship" you if you do not profess the same minutiae of doctrinal tenets as they proclaim; they will ostracize you if your hair color is not conventional or if you have body piercings or ink; they will deny you entrance into their temples simply because you give alms to specific "worldly" charities rather than to their overflowing Church coffers; then they disfavor your job application or refuse to do engage in commerce with you because you have been denied entrance into their temples; and when you lose your employment (because the majority of wealthy employers in the state subtly as well as openly discriminate against those who are not of their Church), they will withhold assistance or make it contingent on your "taking the discussions".

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    March 22, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    Of all of God’s works being his creation, it seems the human species alone wants to think he’s something special. If we truly are, we might try to practice a bit of humility about it.

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    March 22, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    Pops:

    It appears you are referring to part of the Zunts collection where Philologist Richard Janko translated the passage you quoted. I find it interesting that Janko emphasized "not to rely on preconceptions about underlying theology."

    Here is the first part of the translation you left out:

    "You will find on the right in Hades' halls a spring, and by it stands a ghostly cypress-tree, where the dead souls descending wash away their lives. Do not even draw nigh this spring. Further on you will find chill water flowing from the pool of Memory: over this stand guardians. They will ask you with keen mind what is your quest in the gloom of deadly Hades."

    With all due respect, I'm having a hard time making the connection that these pagan funerary prayer sheets somehow show, as you say, "We most assuredly are of divine origin."

    Furthermore, I can't possibly see how the translation you quote even remotely supports Peterson's premise that these writings "take a position remarkably like Paul's own argument...[that] human beings are akin to God."

    As I said before -- wow, what an amazing stretch of reasoning!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    @the truth
    "Does really make any logical sense that we do not have an Heavenly Mother? No."

    Aside from the fact that she's basically nonexistant in the scriptures?

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    March 22, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Let me spell it out for you. Revealed religion contains truth. As cultures and civilizations abandon God and truth, revealed truths degenerate over time, becoming corrupted with human reasoning and other tomfoolery. The funerary text cited by Dr. Peterson, myself, and you (WSG) contains a number of truth fragments, one of which is that we are of divine origin. It also hints of the veil of forgetfulness that prevents us from recalling our premortal existence.

    Dr. Peterson calls them "intriguing documents". I agree. How is that an amazing stretch, to find them intriguing? How can one not find them intriguing?

    "I am the child of Earth and starry Heaven, but of Heaven is my birth" does indeed take a position remarkably like Paul's own argument, that human beings are akin to God. How does it not?

    You will most likely not read to the end of this comment, either, but let me restate that the conclusion that we most assuredly are of divine origin does not derive from the funerary text.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    March 22, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    Jesus Loves U: First off I do understand where you are coming but here are somethings to look at:

    God/Christ states that we are going to create man in our image (plural) not me or my image but our image (plural. Jesus further when asked by the disciples to show them the Father: States in no uncertain terms that if you have seen me you have seen the father indicating that the Father and the Son both have bodies of FLESH and Bone. Further, Christ tells the disciples that he has done nothing except he first see the Father do the same thing. This means that the Father has gone through the same except things that the Son, Jesus is now doing.

    Jesus further states that all men are joint heirs in the kingdom of God. He further states that no one gets to the Father without first going through the Son. Therefore, these all gives way to the facts that the Father and the Son both are individual and distinct beings. Separate from each other but with the same mission, "..to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 22, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    atl134,

    But she is a powerful and intriguing concept. Despite being seldom mentioned, she pervades the LDS concept of eternal life – that we advance together.

    Craig Clark,

    Humility is (unfortunately) always in short supply. But the power of the idea is to raise our actions to it. That we understand both our privileges and our responsibilities as his children.

    The Scientist,

    Certainly none are perfect. But your story is always exceedingly negative. I hear more favorable comments from other non-LDS living in Utah.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    March 22, 2013 9:50 p.m.

    RE: EternalPerspective, In(D&C 84: 11-13)JS said he saw Esaias S/B Isaiah.Poor KJV transliteration Modern translations have Isaiah instead of Esaias see (Romans 9:27,29 NIV,NASB,NET,NLT…).

    RE: Bill in Nebraska, God/Christ states that we are going to create man in our image (plural) not me or my image but our image.

    Let us make man in ‘Our Image’ image and likeness …”(Genesis 1:26)“So God created man in His “OWN(spiritual) Image” male and female created he* them.…(Genesis 1:27) If there were more than one God it would read in “their image.” The Trinity in the O.T. .

    1. The Holy Spirits/Ghost, does not have a body.
    2. Prior to Jesus’ incarnation He was without a body(John 1:14)
    3. God is Spirit/Pneuma(John 4:24.)
    4. *them, man and women would be created with the same Spiritual image not physical.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 22, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    Sharrona,

    If the spirit is the ideal, why does Christ keep his (as the NT makes plain he does)?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 22, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    Sharrona,

    Sorry for the editing error. It should have read . . .

    If the spirit is the ideal, why does Christ keep his body (as the NT makes plain he does)?

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    March 22, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    Clearly there are oodles of folks out there who cannot grasp the reality that Deity(Elohim and his Son Jesus), angelic beings, and mortals are the same species. It's just that simple! Procreation in the species truly DOES require a mother: a mother of our spirits and a mortal mother.

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    March 22, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    Just a question the scientist of all the negative scenarios you indicate what is the common denominator in each situation

  • Mighty Mouse Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 23, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    Thank you Brother Peterson for your inspired teaching. One only need to read the posts to your message to see the need to shed light on the millennia of apostate doctrine that has penetrated the world as men have contaminated the pure gospel of Jesus Christ with the philosophies of men created by uninspired and unauthorized voices.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    March 23, 2013 8:47 p.m.

    Sharrona: I don't know which English class you went to but mine stated very clearly that OUR is plural. It would be incorrect English to say, "to create in their image." The correct way is to say, "to create in our image." That is the plural for more than one individual. If we were to be created in the image of one God, it would have said, "to create them in MY image." This is a singular way of saying exactly the way you are saying it. Please, quit trying to mislead individuals on this very important aspect. Our, Their, Them, They are all plural. Me, My and I are singular.

    Again it is how one wants to interpret but your way makes it clear that your are being mislead yourself.

  • G L W8 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    March 24, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    "...war of words and tumult of opinions." Why do you suppose God chose to reestablish prophets and apostles through Joseph Smith?

  • sharrona layton, UT
    March 24, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    RE: Twin Lights, If the spirit is the ideal, why does Christ keep his body?

    Jesus had to become human to be our high priest. Hebrews 2:17,For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Jesus has a permanent priesthood.
    Hebrews 7:23-25 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. If Jesus is not human, he cannot continue to offer intercession for Christians as high priest.

    RE: Bill in Nebraska It would be incorrect English to say, "to create in their image.

    Hebrew, in his own image, The third person suffix on the particle (’et) is singular here, but collective.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    March 25, 2013 6:59 a.m.

    I don't get why anyone cares. Shouldn't we do the same things and act the same way whether we are of divine origin or not? This feels like an exercise to increase vanity rather than humility.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    March 25, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    Whether or not we're of divine origin, each of is us but one of seven billion people on Earth. That's the perspective we can easilty lose sight of.

  • EternalPerspective Eldersburg, MD
    March 25, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    This article touched many nerves indeed! James in verse 1:5 tells us to ask of God if we lack wisdom and need to find truth. Yet it says God won't upbraid us when we are sincere in our desire to acquire knowledge that cannot come from man.

    It has been and always will be revelation by the power of the Holy Ghost that reveals the mysteries of God according to His will, contingent upon individual faith, repentance, humility, sincerity, and purity of intent.

    For God is not a God of division, but a God of truth that is singular and infinite. It is not the works of God that are frustrated by man, but the inverse has always been true. If one desires to know a purity of God's truths, they must enter the same gate as countless generations who came before them.

    Such must be willing to submit to God's will over their own and that of the world, forsake the wisdom of man, and live the Gospel of Jesus Christ by word and deed, acting in no hypocrisy. God knows when one has been prepared...until then...they remain in darkness.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    March 25, 2013 2:45 p.m.

    The new Pope Francis gave a speech echoing his predecessor Pope Benedict in warning of the “tyranny of relativism, which makes everyone his own criterion and endangers the coexistence of peoples.”

    Whether the Pope was aware of it or not, he was advancing his own relativism. You can’t make sense of anything without framing it in a context. Even then, you decide what emphasis to give.

    Just something to think about in a world of diverse people who try your patience when they don’t think exactly the same way you do.

  • beatrice Beaverton, OR
    March 25, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    Michigander: You have stated the Christian teaching so very well...teachings that come
    from the Bible...as opposed to a mortal group of MEN who are constantly reforming and
    rewording the teachings of Joseph Smith, jr. to make it sound more ''Christian''
    and PC. This makes Mormons THINK that the teachings of Smith are "Christian"
    which they are not. We ARE ALL children of God...which is why we call him
    "Father" as opposed to the "Heavenly Father" and "Heavenly Mother", unique to Mormonism.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 25, 2013 7:48 p.m.

    beatrice,

    The teachings of Joseph Smith and other LDS leaders are certainly Christian.

    How different is "Father in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9–13 in the NIV) than Heavenly Father? Isn't it just a rather minor issue of semantics?

    Agreed that Heavenly Mother is rather unique. But where in God's creation do we find a father without a mother?

  • EternalPerspective Eldersburg, MD
    March 26, 2013 4:15 a.m.

    beatrice

    The Bible is a treasure trove of God's word written through those who spoke by the Spirit of revelation. It is a chronology of God's covenant people through each dispensation when God's authority was on the earth and a living prophet was appointed to be His mouthpiece.

    For who assert the Bible and yet deny revelation could exist on the earth today through a living prophet called by God, doesn't this negate its entire theme and suggest God has done His work and all that remains is the word of dead prophets?

    I ask, when Hebrews 13:8 says, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever", why would God not call a living prophet again in what is clearly the latter days of the world if He is unchangeable as the scriptures testify?

    As the many Christian denominations dwindle in unbelief at an accelerated pace when the world is quickly succumbing to wickedness, wouldn't now be the time when the Spirit of revelation, new scripture, and a living prophet be needed most?

    Is the Bible truly the only means God has appointed for us to know Him in these days?

  • EternalPerspective Eldersburg, MD
    March 26, 2013 5:56 a.m.

    Parallels in the New Testament exist for those who follow the Bible exclusively versus seeking today for the true and living Church of Christ.

    During the ministry of Jesus Christ, the Jewish Sanhedrin with an especial mention of the Pharisees did not have the authority of God and practiced a broken law of Moses. Jewish sects followed the letter of this law over divine principles intending to point them to Christ.

    Jesus rebuked the Pharisees to follow the word of God given through Him, in deed, not for the glory of men, but the glory of God. He also called out their hypocrisy and man-made additions to the Law of Moses.

    Jesus was preparing people to act in faith to believe and follow Him as the long promised Messiah. But, the Pharisees would not listen and sought to kill Jesus because He spoke the truth as one having authority.

    How are the many sects and doctrinal divisions within Christianity any different than the Pharisees of old in following the Bible as the letter of the law, yet are so quick to deny that the patterns of the Bible for Christ’s Church might exist on the earth today?