There are several forces demanding change in higher ed. One, states
decreasing financial support. Thus, universities have to raise tuition and find
alternative funding, requiring overt marketing activities to attract student
dollars and donations. Schools have to then please donors and students rather
than simply educate students. Foundations dictate hires and hamstring how
donations are spent -- often not to the benefit of students or learning. Some
money is used to influence student thinking (e.g., Koch Foundation). States
need to better support education.Two, free online classes from
Harvard and Stanford, taught by elite professors. Sure, they aren't making
much money -- like most free online services (think Facebook, Groupon) -- but
they're proliferating and are destined to impact the need for
bricks-and-mortar schools. Three, recognition that most university
'research' is largely inconsequential and yet faculty spend
significant resources to publish in elite journals that aren't helping
students or contributing to society. I've seen research on Thanksgiving
rituals, fortune cookie fortunes, and Chinese fashion advertising from the
1930s... no wonder legislatures think universities are irrelevant! Universities need to reinvent themselves to demonstrate real value to society
– as true economic engines for good – or die!
Are you people aware that we grant 750k foreign visas (mostly to foreign
students) and the upward effect that has on tuition? Removing a few hundred
thousand foreign students from our campuses would create downward (market-based)
pressure on tuition.
So why are state governments bending over backwards to give in state tuition,
grants and loans to illegal aliens?..
Great comment, Mark 1. As a recent college graduate and the child of
a high school teacher, I think many high school teachers work harder than many
college professors. Now, I have no idea what the professors make, but most days
they teach two or three classes and have one hour for students to visit their
office for help/questions, then they're gone. And at a small school, like
DSC, there were no TA's to fill in and help.
I've worked construction all my life and have known a lot of college
graduates shoveling right along side me. It's money that matters and you
will do what is necessary in the real world.
Only the poor can afford College. The Govt. Pays for theirs. the rest of us
either can't afford it, or have to borrow.I paid for my College
with part time jobs. My kids try to do the same, but just can't earn
enough to do it. Helping them has kept me pretty humble as well. Even though my
salary is comfortable, helping them through College has been a challenge.
High tuition rates are artificially propped up by federal student loans.
Schools must have students to operate. End student loans and within just a
couple years, tuition rates will fall dramatically. There is almost nothing
government touches that does not make it more expensive and/or of less quality.
The only institution in America that is more broken and illegitamet than our
Education system is our out of control and failed Healthcare system. The greed
of the institutions is bringing America down. Is there any hope for our future?
Education is a labor intensive field. It doesn't really take a lot of
money to build buildings, or furnish them. The biggest budget item for any
education institution is its payroll. Perhaps one way to increase efficiency
would be to look at what the teachers are doing all day. Some college teachers
course load could be increased to accommodate more students. Administrations
need to manage their workforce and trim the fat.
It's nice to see that the DN is part of the revolution to devalue the
importance of education. If you really want to save costs, then support your
state schools. Private/for-profit, colleges are the ones bilking the system,
students and tax payers while putting in the least amount of investment in the
classroom. And it isn't just President Obama who supports
college and tech school. President Gordon B. Hinckley said of education, "I
hope that if it involves sacrifice, you will get all the education you can get.
The Lord has laid a mandate upon the people of this Church that they should
learn by study and by faith. You will bring honor to this Church if you will
educate your minds and your hands, if you will remain true and faithful as you
go into the world."
Re: Eliyahu, it does not cost a couple thousand to go to those applied tech
schools. It costs tens of thousands of dollars simply for an associates degree.
I know many people in my medium sized Utah town that have degrees but severely
lack common sense and have no work ethic but complain they dont make enough even
though they drove to work in a BMW or a mercedes. And then I know plenty of
people with no degrees with alot of intelligence and common sense who cannot
afford to go to college so they slave away at work just to eat top ramen.
Sometimes they even work up to 50 hours a week and the overtime doesnt help at
all once the taxes come out. Maybe if they made it more affordable to go to
college and maybe if there was actually a greater chance of getting a better job
with a degree than us regular lower middle class would actually consider going
A College Degree USED to be the ticket to Middle Class America.In
1978 when I was in college -- Minimum wage was $3.25 and hour, but a
college degree got you a job making 3-4 times that much.35 years
later -- Because the Rich have gotten expotentionally richer, and
the poor have gotten poorer...The Middle class has evaporated to
nothing, there is no more Middle Class.A College Degree costs
20 times what it used to, and the return on that investment (earning
potential) has been cut by over 75%.Today -A minimum wage is
$7.25 and hour, a college degree earns less than $5 more than that.You have a degree -- Now, do the math....
I fully agree with Brahmabull. If we want the college education cost to go down
we must strip the colleges of the right to award degrees and transfer it to an
independent institution that only tests the competence of those aspiring to
receive a degree. Colleges should do the job of teaching, but not testing.
Students should have the option to study on their own. This will also open the
market for private tutoring. A young man with a gift for teaching will be able
to earn a living without jumping through a million hoops to become a
While I'll agree with ruraljohnboy's comment above that many jobs
don't require a degree, the fact is nevertheless that a lot of the people
competing for those jobs do have a degree or at least some college, which gives
them an advantage over those who don't. A high school diploma by itself
doesn't carry much weight any more.That said, one of the very
affordable alternatives to large colleges and universities are Utah's
various Applied Technology Colleges, where the curriculum centers on the subject
being studied -- nursing, medical assisting, dental technology, plumbing,
computer technology, cosmetology, culinary arts, etc. -- without general studies
or peripheral courses. Students can finish in a year or less and with an
investment of only a couple thousand dollars. They're non-profit state-run
schools without all the peripherals that make universities so costly.
re CHS 85: An uneducated populace is one that believes that the only learning
that can take place in your life comes with a hefty debt price tag. Read a
Students should be more willing to look at the economy of some colleges as
opposed to the names of some colleges. I earned my master's degree from
University of Nevada, Reno, in 2004, and the most I paid was $127/per semester
hour. I know prices have gone up since then, but I shopped around. Other
schools were charging twice that amount at the time, and offered identical
programs. Some schools are better than others, but how much better is the
question people should be asking themselves. College can be affordable, and
certainly some of the "extras" students clamor for can be cut (e.g.
public transportation vs. a car; used books instead of new; cheaper cell phone
plan; working in the computer lab instead of the latest laptop; cheaper
apartments). It's not easy to cut corners, but sometimes there is virtue
in the sacrifice which teaches just as much as college courses.
"I guess an uneducated population is what we should strive for?"Of course not, that would be silly. But 80% of jobs don't require a
college degree. You don't need a college degree to be a bartender or work
at a call center or wait tables, but many HAVE a degree because they can't
find a better job and if you can hire a grad, why not? Also,
I'm not convinced that college degree = educated.And a
population with degrees that don't match the job market is not what we
should strive for either.
CHS 85 - You are under the false impression that people who don't go to
college aren't educated. This is part of the problem with our society right
now. If you go to pointless classes, pass the tests, that makes you educated.
The college says you are educated because they give you a degree. But if I learn
the same things on my own, through books, research, etc. I am not given the same
status because nobody was able to test my level of knowledge. Point is, there
are many people withough degrees who are very educated, and I have met many
people with degrees that aren't educated. This collecge thing
must change. Students should be able to test out of many of the basic classes so
they don't have to pay for them, but still get credit for them. Why do they
have to take a class when they know all of the information anyways? Answer:
colleges don't care about educating people, they care about money. In order
to get a bachelor's degree you have to take several pointless classes that
are barely above high school level. Is that really educating students?
The article suggests students work while going to college to reduce costs. Fine,
but where do they work? Our economy isn't the same as it was 20 years ago,
nor even 5 years ago. There simply are NOT jobs available. We recently sent our
son to North Dakota to work in the oil fields to earn money, after he spent six
fruitless months trying to find full-time work in northern Utah (and he has job
experience, too). I worry about what the world will look like in 15 years when
my youngest is ready for college.Take a walk across a university
campus some time, if you haven't recently. They are beautiful, modern,
filled with all kinds of diversions and perks all in the name of recruiting
students. And then the students pour all their money--and their parents'
money and student loan funds--into maintaining that food court and basketball
court and etc.Then, talk to some professors trying to secure funds
to help their graduate students with projects. They'll sigh and say sadly,
"There's no money for academics."Now, how do we reverse
I had to/chose to take out an enormous amount of student loans to finance
education. I can honestly say these loans have a large impact on the jobs that I
am looking at taking. I have to look at jobs that will allow me to repay loans
rather than what may be the most ideal job. There needs to be
federal student loan reform. For example, there is a cap on student loan
interest that can be deducted from federal taxes. Last year I paid >$10,000
in student loan interest and capped at a $2,500 deduction. Plus, this deduction
goes away when you reach a certain income. Make student loan interest similar to
mortgage interest deduction. Finally, something has to be done to
bring down college costs. We will soon find it is too expensive to get a college
education and we will continue to fall further behind compared to the world
peers with a less educated and innovative work force.
@ruraljohnboyI guess an uneducated population is what we should
The article briefly touches on choosing a degree, but that choice deeply affects
all the other issues discussed. Should you attend a "more expensive,
better-known institution", or will you do fine at a school "close to
family so they could score free housing"? Go to college full-time right out
of high school, or join the workforce right away and go to college at night?
Two-year certificate, four-year degree, or postgraduate work? The answers to all
of these depend strongly on what profession you seek to join, so you have to
make that decision first.
But President Obama wants EVERYBODY to go to college!
A college degree is not only too expensive, it doesn't guarantee
employment. The top five percent in the graduating class receives special
treatment for job placement, the rest have to hustle their own interviews in
many fields of study.When you finally get the job, you soon learn the
boss/bosses are incompetent in what they do or do not want to carry their
workload, so they dump it on you. They go golfing and take long lunches. If
you can't keep up with the sixty plus hours of work and make your boss look
good ( in other words give all the credit to the boss), then you are fired and a
new college graduate takes your place. The more money you make, the more taxes
you pay and the more you overextend yourself financially. You can get caught in
a financial mess.Unless you have a scholarship to pay for college, I
recommend finding employment that will pay for you to attend college part time.
Save as much money as you can by living at home. Use that saved money to
establish a future family.
"IS college getting too expensive for Americans?" NO. Rather, it LONG
has been WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!I got two bachelor degrees in the latter
1970's. I began in 1975, after returning from serving an LDS mission in
France. I attended the University of Utah (the "U"). My tuition and
books then required me to take out loans. But NOT mortgages. They were short
term loans from Credit Unions. Often I paid them back within 6 months.Back then, the college system was far more generous in allowing students to
EARN college credit by showing what they had already learned, and getting credit
for it. For example, I got out of my freshman year of college by acquiring 48
quarter hours (vs semester hours) of credit by passing different parts of the
CLEP (College Level Examination Program) test. The fees for the test, of course,
were far less than the cost fro tuition and books for a whole year. And, besides
saving me money, it saved me valuable time!Tuition maybe ranged
between $150 to $250 during the 3-1/2 years I was at the "U", acquiring
not just one, but TWO bachelor degrees!