Mormons following Christ's example. Best story I've read
in a while. Thank you, DesNews.
We found out in the 1960's that love everyone is a dysfunctional concept
and doesn't work like these extremist think it should. Love everyone is
impossible and that only applies to individuals and family.Tolerate
and respecting others rights is a functional society, especially in the USA
where even those facing discrimination must tolerate and respect other rights to
be discriminatory of ones beliefs and ideals.We all have a right to
discriminate and not like people for personal beliefs. Discrimination laws only
apply to social and economic fluidity of a community. Even that is questionable.
Discrimination is a right of independence, freedoms, and free will and religion
Constitutional declarations. Its getting out of reason that individuals think
they have a right to disrespect others rights to not like someone for any
reason, even personal conflicting moral issues.If anyone can't
accept themselves without guilt or shame, then I can't accept them either.
If they think I have to accept their beliefs then they do not have my respect or
tolerate them as peers or equals. Live and let live, that is god's way of
love. Mandating laws for pity is absurd and very selfish.
I suppose i am ignorant as i have never hired anybody or lent housing to anybody
either, but i cannot imagine that employers or landlords would be so foolish as
to deny qualified applicants on the basis of sexual orientation. At what point
does that even come up in an interview? Somebody please tell me how
much of a problem this actually is. from what i can tell it is just the LGBT
fishing for attention.
This is wonderful. I don't know what else to say. I am truly impressed.
Thank you for this. I have known good mormon people all of my life and I have
known (in large abundance) holier than thou mormons, "you need to be more
like me" mormons, and "I love the sinner, I just hate the sin"
mormons. I like this kind best. These are the kind more likely to say, "Love
the sinner and despise the sin in myself that causes me to judge others so
But by the grace of God go I. Your never lucky until after the game is over and
your the winner.
Just because I'm against the behavior that defines homosexuality does not
necessarily mean I'm judgmental (of the person). Or, another way to say it
is, we make judgments every day, about a million different things. We judge if
we are living up to our potential and what actions we should take to do so.Having said that, I have some sympathy for those who have sexual
ortientation problems. Some struggle mightily. I struggle mightily with my
temptations. I fight every day to overcome those weaknesses I have that beset
me so easily. I struggle in many personal ways to be the man I want to be and
Heavenly Father wants me to be. I agree with the posters I've
seen the demonstrators carry. But sometimes there is a fine line between
supporting and loving the person and supporting and loving their behavior. But,
I am not the judge.All I know is that in the past, some of these
laws have been ripe with unintended consequenses. I have to admit though, I
have not read the bill, so therefore don't feel qualified to comment on why
the Utah congress does not want to pass it.
The concern I have for this bill relates to so called gender identity. I believe
it addresses things like bathroom access. I think there is a huge safety concern
allowing people to choose which gender they imagine themselves to be, thus going
into whatever bathroom they want. Having men who believe themselves, or claim
themselves to be women can create safety concerns. I feel like the world has
gone mad trying to accept every type of behavior without really paying attention
There are already antidiscrimination laws on the books. What else are they
looking for. Mormons don't hate gays. What else do they want? I'm
confused.If they want us to agree with them that they should be able
to marry instead of engage in civil unions. Then i would be against that.
In all the hubbub about gays being bullied and discriminated against, has anyone
noticed how gays themselves use intimidation and bullying against those who
believe that homosexual behavior, both public and private, is detrimental and
destructive to individuals and to society? Why is there no outcry in behalf of
those of us who believe that the spirit is gender-specific just as the body is
and that attraction toward the opposite sex is not "orientation" but
"temptation"? As a supporter of California's Proposition 8, I have
seen some pretty nasty bullying behavior by gays against anyone who doesn't
heel to their mark. Where is our "antidiscrimination" legislation? Or
are we just supposed to accept the pushing and shoving and spitting and
name-calling and vandalism and threats and legal actions and ...?
What difference does a self-imposed label make? Of course anyone can claim to
be "different", and assert that they are somehow a "victim" of
discrimination. The false posturing that "LGBT" means something special
and wonderful that merits special laws or special protection is just another
approach to normalizing deviant behavior. Perhaps this situation requires that
every individual should be considered "different" and have a unique set
of laws and rules that apply. From the perspective of a pluralistic society, the
very notion is absurd, and would prove impossible to implement or enforce.
I prefer this demonstration to a bunch of folks dancing and prancing down
mainstreet half-(or completely) naked on pride day.
I think the LGBT is out of line and using some interesting Bullying
tactics." I also find it strange that they referred to the transgender
person as a "he." I don't know what the scenario is, but I'm
pretty sure the government has this individual listed as a girl (the gender at
birth) and as far as housing contracts go, I think we're right,
particularly in dorm/ single gender apartments to say we don't want to deal
with the complexities of your Psyche because most people are going to be a
little weirded out showing up to college and suddenly realizing their sweet nice
roommate us really a boy. There are consequences for your actions people.
Choosing to be the opposite gender is no different.
Go Utes: Don't know about overall stats in how often discrimination occurs.
One of the speakers yesterday told his story of being kicked out of an apartment
for being openly gay. A UofU professor has done a survey of LGBT people in Utah,
where nearly 50% felt they had been discriminated against. Don't know more
details beyond that.
People who are discriminated:* rich people* "You
didn't build that"--responsible people making a successful living are
being criticized.* the half of our population who pay federal income tax,
compared to those who don't* people who don't qualify for
college assistance* an eighty year old person still paying income
taxes* school children whose learning is hampered, because the emphasis
are on the low achievers.* people forced to pay for someone's
welfare.Yes! We need "statewide anti-discrimination
efforts". Maybe country wide.
As a lesbian with deep, Utah roots, I can assure you that discrimination occurs
regularly in Utah. My partner and I were both fired from our respective jobs in
a small-ish southern Utah town. We weren't "out," but we did live
together, and we were fired based upon a rumor that began to circulate around
town. After losing our jobs, we were subsequently blackballed by the entire
town. After 8+ months of trying to find ANY job, we finally had to board up our
ranch and move to the Wasatch Front.In our case, we lost both our
jobs and our home.
All people face discrimination in some form. You grow up and handle it.Quit whining, and acting as a handy cap. This country has more
To "Florwood" if you were always told by your peers that you are a
victim, don't you think that you would be more likely to say that you have
been discriminated against?They have claimed victimhood for so long,
that they believe that anytime somebody says no to them that it is because of
discrimination. If Utah was so horrible to gays, why is it that the gay
magazines always talk about how tolerant Utah is?
wow those of you who say you see LGBT community bullying. you need to look at
the actual facts. see you dont see gay people on the news for beating up
straight people. but you do see straight people beating up people who are gay.
if you say this is not true i can show you story, after story, after story. as a personal experience in this discrimination this. when i moved here
last year. we were looking at apartments. at this one complex. it was two ladies
and me and my girl friend waiting to look at apartments. the two ladies were in
the lobby before us. so the leasing agent walked in and asked who was here
first. after showing them apartment the leasing agent came back. first words out
of her mouth were sorry you had to deal with those people. i had to ask. what
people? people who are gay. this was from the leasing agent. yes i placed a call
to the management company she worked for. don't know if anything happened
to her or not. i feel bad for the ladies if they had to deal with her.
@mytwobits --"In all the hubbub about gays being bullied and
discriminated against, has anyone noticed how gays themselves use intimidation
and bullying against those who believe that homosexual behavior, both public and
private, is detrimental and destructive to individuals and to society? Why is
there no outcry in behalf of those of us who believe that the spirit is
gender-specific just as the body is and that attraction toward the opposite sex
is not "orientation" but "temptation"?"The funny
thing about freedom and civil rights are that they should apply to **everyone**,
not just to people that you happen to agree with. Homosexuals have
never fought for *special* rights, only for *equal* rights with the rest of
society. You don't have to believe that homosexuality is "good", or
even that interracial marriage is "good" -- and remember, the very same
arguments that you are using now were used previously back in the days of racial
segregation. You just need to accept that everyone has the basic human right to
love whomever they wish, within the bounds of adult consensual relations.
OK, new question. How much of this discrimination is imagined due to the hard
knocks life sometimes gives us? Lets be real here; life happens.
sometimes you lose a job. sometimes you get kicked out of an apartment.
discrimination occurs (i have seen and intervened) but i have not seen evidence
to suggest that it is the prevailing attitude in the state or the states
predominant religion. is this bill really necessary?
In my case, the loss of jobs was initiated by my partner's boss, who was
the local Mormon Stake President. Because he held such local sway, it resulted
in both of us losing our jobs. The condition for her keeping her job was that
she move out of our house! Despite this outrageous condition, she moved out,
acquiring a rental in town. Townspeople saw my car there one evening as we
watched a video, and because of that, she lost her job. My boss was a friend of
the stake president, and within days of my partner's firing, I lost my job,
too.The prevalent religion is not always discriminatory or petty,
but sometimes it does harmful things while trying to be well-intentioned.
To Amazondoc:You are incorrect. We don't "need" to
accept anyone or their behavior that is totally counter to our own most inner
moral feelings and values, especially when that behavior has been shown in
multiple studies to have questionable social effects on society.There were too many of us (even just visiting) in California during active
proposition 8 times, that when driving out of an LDS church parking lot, were
sworn at and had our cars egged and were spat at... all by these supposedly
loving people who ironically are asking others to be tolerant of them, while
they themselves show no inclination of tolerance toward anyone else who
doesn't totally side with them... none at all. It's difficult to
respect people who don't walk their own talk.Personally, I
don't understand why a few dozen people getting together concerning a dead
bill should warrant this much attention. It must have been a very slow news day
for the reporters involved.
@Tators --"We don't "need" to accept anyone or
their behavior that is totally counter to our own most inner moral feelings and
values"I'll rephrase: **in order to conform to the equal
protection and privacy principles outlined in the US Constitution**, you need to
accept that everyone has the basic human right to love whomever they wish within
the bounds of adult consensual relations. To deny them that right is
unconstitutional."especially when that behavior has been shown
in multiple studies to have questionable social effects on society."**What** studies? Please name some of them."There were
too many of us (even just visiting) in California during active proposition 8
times, that when driving out of an LDS church parking lot, were sworn at and had
our cars egged and were spat at..."Churches that opposed Prop 8
were also vandalized, and opposers were also personally harrassed. "while they themselves show no inclination of tolerance toward anyone else
who doesn't totally side with them..."Prop 8 was an attempt
to deny civil rights to thousands of American citizens. It's natural that
those citizens should be angry.
The problem with discrimination against gays and lesbians is that it's
entirely based upon what others presume or imagine we do in our private lives.
I've personally known committed lesbian couples who have been celibate for
years at a time, yet they're discriminated against (and told how immoral
and perverted they are) by people who are simply "imagining" what's
going on behind bedroom doors. The problem lies principally or entirely in the
accusers' minds, not with most gays and lesbians. We simply want the humane
and fair treatment with which you'd treat any other human traveler on this
earth.For those claiming that there "are already laws"
protecting gays from discrimination, you're largely incorrect. There are
protections for federal workers, and for workers in 17 communities in Utah, but
there is no statewide protection against flagrant acts of discrimination against
gays. Even with a law, discrimination laws are extremely difficult to prove, and
they serve principally as awareness-raisers and deterrents.
homosexuality within the LDS church is a tough issue. On one hand the Church has
publicly stated that having homosexual urges is NOT a sin however acting on
those urges IS a sin. Homosexuals are welcome in the LDS church and have no
constraints at all other than the law of chastity.
Anytime discrimination is allowed toward any group, citizens should be worried
because you never know who could be targeted next. It could be you. As an active
member of the LDS Church I do not want any person to have to suffer through
employment discrimination, housing discrimination, hate crimes etc. Someone in
an earlier comment mentioned the bullying tactics used by the LGBT community. I
have felt personally bullied by people in this group and have seen people who
preach tolerance for all not practice tolerance for people who are religious or
who disagree with them. It's hurtful. But I think we need to come together
as human beings and make sure that people are being treated with compassion,
kindness and equality. The LDS Church has come out with a website designed to
help members understand the LGBT community and to help bridge that gap and
increase understanding. I think that having a brother who is gay has helped me
understand how to love those who are different despite the disparity in some of
our beliefs.It doesn't mean that you have to agree with the lifestyle when
you agree that everyone has certain rights.
@QuercusQate:Aren't you using discrimination with describing
the small-ish southern Utah town. You're blasting their values
as they are yours.There are places I wouldn't live, because of
different values/culture. I just live somewhere else rather then argue. Why
change the culture of an area, because of one or two people? Simple
solution,--find a compatible area to your lifestle.
now if we can get Mormons not to ostracize non-Mormons. then something will
really be accomplished.
In a small town of three thousand. Two thousand nine hundred , and ninety eight
people has similar values, but two?Hmm? There's more to this
story then is being written.There are many people fired for unjust
reasons. That's life, and the way it is.I'd like to hear
from this stake president, and I'll probably hear a different version of
My religious values don't include denying someone a job or housing because
of their sexual preferences. Their presence at work or in my neighborhood
neither imposes their values onto mine nor forces me to approve of what they do
privately. Mormons of all people should be hesitant to say that if you're
only 2 people out of a town of 3000, there's no problem with firing you
simply because you have "different values."I'm ashamed
that others who supposedly share my religious values are trying to rationalize
mistreatment of people with throwaway sympathy like "many people fired for
unjust reasons. That's life, and the way it is." Ironically,
they're making the very case for the law that they're arguing against.
I'm sorry, but the "guy" is still genetically a girl and dressing
like a male won't change that. ACT score or not.
@Flashback --"I'm sorry, but the "guy" is still
genetically a girl"It isn't always that simple, and you
don't have any way to know if it applies in this specific case or not. In
fact, there are several medical conditions that can produce a person whose
external appearance doesn't match up with their genetic composition. These
biologically confused folks are sometimes raised as the "wrong" gender.
In fact, by some estimates roughly 1% of live births show some degree of
physical gender ambiguity. Look up "intersex conditions" for further
The Lord placed Adam and Eve in the garden with a commandment to go forth and
multiply and replenish the earth. Has the Lord rescinded that commandment or
given a pass to those who deny His role in the Eternity of life? I do not
recall any mention in the scriptures about Adam and Steve.
Many of these comments make me so sad. This group got together to talk about
loving and taking care of others... and to help point out the bullying that LGBT
people have had to put up with... That they lose jobs, get kicked out of homes,
get beat up and sometimes killed, are shunned or constantly told that they are
"less-than"... and the newspaper comment section is just full of more
hateful and disgusting bullying.Way to go Grayson, and your mom, and
all of you that got together to share your values of love and acceptance. I hope
none of you are reading these comments, and... just in case you are, know THIS
person supports your rights.
How sad that such bullying and discrimination goes on around a country that
should know better. I am white and I grew up in a predominantly Hispanic
neighborhood and I was the victim of discrimination and bullying since the 3rd
grade. I was the butt of jokes, beaten up for the color of my skin, had my
shins kicked in every day, except for one, during 5th grade, slammed into
lockers in middle school, insulted, called names, (although I kinda liked "3
Mile Island" one), warned against taking Spanish classes, had horrible
cartoons drawn of me and shared around class, thrown into trash cans, trumpets
blasted into my ears....I could go on. That was my past throughout grade school
and into my college years.But today, I work to learn and then to
help the Hispanic population in the U.S., because I realized that being nasty
and hateful from all of this only serves to cause more problems on me and that
Christ did not retaliate from the abuses he suffered. Be more like
Christ, don't retaliate against your abusers. Calmly help to change laws,
but respect those who are different. Don't discriminate against religion as
It's sad to come here and see people working so hard to justify treating
other people badly. It would be nice if we lived in a world where we didn't
have to have laws to protect people from oppression. But that's not the
world we live in.I respect everyone's right to disagree with me
for being a Mormon. People are perfectly welcome to disagree with my beliefs,
my definitions of morals, and the way I live my life. Insults, disagreements,
jokes, taunts, and social stigma... those are all versions of protected free
speech and I support them, even if I suffer because of them.But when
it comes to my ability to make a living and have a home, my Mormonism should not
be a factor. I should be protected against discrimination for housing or
employment based on my religion.Gay people should have the same
protection. I disagree with the horrible comments on this board but I will
defend your right to make them because I believe in freedom. Denying people
housing or employment because of their sexual orientation... that's
oppression and I disagree with that because I believe in freedom.
Talk about shoddy journalism! Your headline writer and your reporter really had
a disconnect. The "Mormons" didn't rally. It was a "Small
Group of Self-described Mormons." The message to mere headline readers such
as I am is entirely different. Surely blindsided me with your bait and switch.
yes quite interesting reading this was. I would say only a couple of things, 1
Jesus said love the sinner not the sin, in my mind this isn't putting the
sinner ahead of all else or giving them special privliges as most request. I
brought back to the years when most of these situations started mostly 60s and
70s the years of free love, drugs and rock and roll. The liberal professors that
got into our college and started telling students about how they should be
treated and how unfairly they are treated has caused a landslide that basically
says each person in this nation should have their own special laws or they are
being discriminated against.I believe most people in this country are
quite tolerant of others. We have a black president yet the race card is
continually played, we have bent over backwards for many and satisfaction never
comes, no matter whats done its never enough. I think if one were to really look
at whats happening and the majority would start seeking what they want instead
of letting the minority call the shots many things would change for the better.
Silence sometimes destroys all.
Well done Utah, now you're only 10 years behind the rest of the civilised
World.Why would anyone think Mormons are homophobic?Oh, wait...All the anti-discrimination measures got blocked. By who?Looks like
you're determined to treat homosexuals as second class citizens.My
guess is that eventually a POTUS will have to threaten to remove your tax exempt
status before you decide to treat other human beings who aren't quite like
you, equally before the law.