Comments about ‘Boy Scouts survey seeks feedback on ban of gay Scouts’

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Published: Tuesday, March 12 2013 6:30 p.m. MDT

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Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

The founding principal some of you have forgotten:
Baden Powell founded the scouts to prepare young men to go to war when they were old enough.

The rest of it was window dressing.

Now it's all window dressing and religious propaganda for most.

...and I'm an Eagle Scout who worked at different scout camps around the US.
Gay does not equal pedophile any more than clergy equals pedophile.

Jumpyman
Salt Lake City, UT

The Boy Scouts of America has been one of the few organizations that has stood up to the polical pressures to change american morals. I have been very supportive of them in the past, but if they cave in to the militant gay agenda, I will not be supportive anymore. I don't have any problems with people that are gay- I have problems when they try to tell me that what I believe is wrong and try to force me to change. Isn't that what they complain about as well? Why should the Boy Scouts change thier morals? Don't tell me that this is a civil rights issue. It is not one. No one has rights being infringed upon them. It is not a right to be able to join the boy scouts. Just like the girl scouts won't allow a boy in their troop, the boy scouts can decide who they let in and who they don't. The only reason the Boy Scouts are under attack is because they have chosen to stand up to the LGBT folk.

twspears6007
Bakersfield, CA

I took the survey yesterday and the questions were very informative.I believe this survey will be helpful to the BSA National Board to make a decision in May 2013. I favor this type of survey over a handful of Board members making a decision without input from the Scout leaders that will be directly effected by the Boards final vote. The fact that the homosexual scouts have been secretly members is at best a character flaw in their desire to be a Scout. Knowing that they broke the policy without reservations is not what Scouting is all about refering to the Scout Oath and Law the foundation of the BSA.Scouts are always reminded to live these values everyday is a clear message to be a Scout of integrity. My thoughts are that our nation has become a divided nation because of the constant pressure to make changes in a system that is not broke. It is not that changes are not good. It is a matter using discrimination to solve discrimination. This proposed change in legally allowing homosexuals in the program is the most important decision that the BSA has ever faced since its U.S founding.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Keep in mind that the proposal is that each troop / chartering org can make their own choice.

In Utah, since the vast majority are chartered by the LDS church, how will that affect Utah Scouting?

Yes, maybe one may choose not to go to national or regional scouting events, but is that really a big deal?

This whole issue will affect Utah less then anywhere else. What do you care what they do in Idaho or Florida?

It wont affect you in the least.

jondo
Oswego, NY

How do you justify abandonment of the Scout Oaths? Where is the Scouting's Character? Money trumps the Oath. Do you realize that in order to accommodate the proposal you would have to rewrite the oaths. What is an individual's Duty to God in regard to homosexuality when it is considered a sin by the Bible? What does Morally Straight mean in regard to character given your Duty to God? No one objected to having a few clandestine homosexual scouts or leaders as long as they were not openly gay and absolutely respected the idea of not ever bringing sexuality into conversation or action. The movement in society has placed sexuality over scouting.
Any compromise to allow local chapters to decide the issue is simply passing the buck on a hard decision. If the GLBT wins this battle the victory will be parlayed into momentum for gay marriage. Once "married" they will want children through whatever legal or medical mechanism is available. Not only is abuse a concern but the deeper concern is their opportunity to mold a generation to their views on open sexuality. This is fundamentally wrong and the Scouts ought not facilitate acceptance of open sexuality.

bearfan
tremonton, UT

Remember Christ protected the prostitute and ate with the sinners. Then he said "GO YOUR WAY AND SIN NO MORE." Then he said "COME FOLLOW ME" meaning "DO AS YOU HAVE SEEN ME DO".He didn't say join me in your sin. Every one always leaves out the second part of the story.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@Jim --

"By the very name of the organization, "Boy Scouts of America", promotes values that are and have been perfectly moral and acceptable to the majority of participants and supporters."

The name is "Boy Scouts of America", not "straight Mormon Boy Scouts of America". Multiple Christian denominations welcome homosexual members, as well as non-Christian groups that also do so. It seems to me that the "special pleading" being done is on the side of the LDS and Catholic members who want to overrule the beliefs of more liberal religious groups, as well as denying the civil rights of homosexuals in general.

As someone else already pointed out, "homosexual" does not mean "sexual predator". Straight women are allowed to participate in BSA, and they are just as likely to be attracted to young male scouts as homosexual men are.

BSA membership has already dropped 20% since this policy went to court in 2000. Multiple large corporate sponsors have also dropped out, and continue to do so. The BSA is shooting itself in the foot by continuing this discrimination. Since the man expected to be the next President of the National BSA Board also opposes it, hopefully it will end soon.

ApacheNaiche
PINETOP, AZ

Go ahead and let the gays into the Boy Scouts. Then say goodbye to the LDS Church sponsership which would be the death knell to scouting.

ApacheNaiche
PINETOP, AZ

Since when did "morally strong" translate to homosexuality? Answer: NEVER!

GiuseppeG
Murray, Utah

Agree with Dutchman. Does "openly gay" mean, same gender attracted but not actively engaged in sexual relations or does it mean actively engaged in sexual relation? Does it mean both, either, or something else? The answers might be different depending on the definitions.

Mc
West Jordan, UT

We raised 5 boys who are eagle scouts with their father very involved in scouting in many positions, both local and district, and serving on several woodbadge staffs. I served as a den leader for many years and as scout committee chairman. We love scouting and have always contributed to Friends of Scouting. We love the standards taught by the Scout Oath and the skills taught through programs and merit badges. As leaders and parents we always taught our boys to stand for the principles of scouting no matter what peer pressure they may encounter, even if it's hard.

How sad it is to see that wonderful institution ready to abandon principles and change standards due to peer pressure. For the sake of sponsorship or to avoid litigation they would change their very core beliefs. Although sponsoring units will be able to limit their membership according to their beliefs, all council and district training materials will have to be changed to reflect acceptance of LBGT units. The words "morally straight" will have to be stricken from the oath. Next athiests will demand acceptance and God will be removed.

The BSA needs to stand by the principles it has always taught.

San Diego Chargers Fan
San Diego, CA

Here in San Diego it seems there are just as many female scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters as male ones. I go to Roundtable and am almost outnumbered by the females. As I mentioned in my original comment, sexuality and sexual attraction are never topics of discussion in scout meetings or on outings. Youth protection guidelines provide are enough to keep boys safe.

My role as an LDS scoutmaster is first and foremost that of "youth minister" and "priesthood leader", with scouting providing many valuable tools to teach the boys under my stewardship. If we were to go to a camporee where another troop had an openly gay scout in attendance, I try to imagine what President Monson would do or say if he were with us. He would probably teach and encourage the boys, just as I try to do in my role as scoutmaster. To think that my boys would somehow infer that homosexuality is encouraged just because there happens to be another "gay-friendly" troop there is absurd.

Some of the "abandonment of the Scout Oath/Character" comments here reflect the insular perspective of somebody who has grown up knowing only scouting in Utah. Chill out!

San Diego Chargers Fan
San Diego, CA

Funny to see how many people seem to know what the LDS church will do if BSA changes its membership policies. From many comments here ("Say goodbye to LDS church sponsorship") you must know President Monson better that the rest of us do. The LDS church openly embraces gays. To Quote Elder D. Todd Christopherson of the Twelve:

"Someone who is adhering to the norm of chastity, someone who is following the covenants and the standards, teachings of the gospel of Christ, though they may be dealing with same-sex attraction really there’s no reason they cannot be fully participative, that they can’t be a full-fledged member of the Church and hold callings and speak and enter the temple and serve there, and all the other opportunities and blessings that can come from Church membership will be available to them."

If the BSA changes its membership to be more in line with the LDS policy, why would the Church object?

Mc
West Jordan, UT

@San Diego Chargers Fan
I guess it depends on what your definition of "openly gay" is. Usually, people who have same sex attraction but are not, and don't intend to be, sexually active are not considered "openly gay," atleast not to me. Openly gay individuals generally are not living the standards and teachings of the Church and are quite "open" about it. They do not accept "the norm of chastity" that Elder Christopherson spoke of.

The proposed change by BSA will not make it more in line with LDS policy.

San Diego Chargers Fan
San Diego, CA

@Mc -- you make very valid point.

What does a scout troop (especially an LDS unit) do with a boy who is openly defying the religious values his church espouses? What would an eagle board of review do with a boy who had admittedly violated the law of chastity with his girlfriend? Would it be different if he were actively working through the repentance process with his bishop? What if he has viewed pornography? Should the scout troop kick him out? Should he be denied the rank of eagle? These are all (in my view) violations of the oath to be "morally straight".

How does BSA handle these situations? I would hope that the standard would be the same regardless of whether his temptations were homosexual or heterosexual.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@jondo --

"How do you justify abandonment of the Scout Oaths?"

Many people -- the people fighting against BSA discrimination -- believe that abandoning the policy does not require abandoning the oaths.

"What is an individual's Duty to God in regard to homosexuality when it is considered a sin by the Bible?"

Eating shellfish is considered a sin by the Bible. Is that grounds for excluding someone from the Scouts?

"No one objected to having a few clandestine homosexual scouts or leaders as long as they were not openly gay"

If you use this policy, you are encouraging people to lie. Isn't that also a sin?

"Once "married" they will want children through whatever legal or medical mechanism is available."

Yup, just as much as any infertile couple might.

"Not only is abuse a concern"

Why is abuse a special concern? Straight women are allowed to participate in the BSA, and they are just as likely to be attracted to young men as gay men are. In fact, if you use this argument you should really encourage lesbian women to participate -- no risk of sexual abuse there!

bribri86
Phoenix, AZ

Rick for truth, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for your stance. I stand with you

Dan Bishop
Lehi, UT

Boys don't need a homosexual males for a leader. Teenagers who suffer from gender identity disorder and same-sex attraction have problems that need special attention. To put these boys or girls in a regular scout troop would probably be very traumatic to them. I hope that the Boy Scouts of America doesn't go this way. Perhaps if young males received more support and less bashing by society, we wouldn't have so much of this problem.

Bluto
Sandy, UT

It's a Private Organization....
Capiche?

Outside groups should start their own organizations instead of trying to impose their will on long established traditions.

If the Boy Scouts bow to this political pressure, look for Mormons, Cathloics, Methodists and Baptists to start new scouting organiztions altogether.

Then the Scouts will lose 75% of their sponsorships overnight.

It's my understanding that the LDS Church has had such a prorgram ready to go for 20 years.

bw00ds
Tucson, AZ

This is more about upholding morals. Not particularly about predators (although that is an important issue) and not about money (although that is also an important issue). This is about upholding morals that one believes in.

The BSA has lost some of my respect for even considering this issue. I am so tired of people and organizations caving on important principles. Some say it is a good thing they are surveying their stake holders, but I say they shouldn't even be considering it.

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