This is much ado about nothing. The membership policy should have been changed
10 years ago. BSA already has dozens of mechanisms to ensure that a homosexual
leader cannot attack a boy. All new leaders are subjected to a background
check to ensure they are not a child predator. All leaders must be trained in
youth protection guidelines to ensure a boy will not be a victim. Leaders are
trained to step in quickly to avoid, and to quickly report, any violations of
these policies. In addition, LDS units have plenty of additional
layers of oversight which would keep a homosexual out. Consider an openly gay
LDS man who approaches the troop leader asking to be a scout leader. In LDS
units, many factors are considered when the bishopric calls a new scout leader,
including "worthiness" of the candidate as well as the needs of the
boys. There are plenty of reasons NOT to call someone to be a scout leader,
apart from whether he is openly gay.Finally, as a scoutmaster, I
have been on over a hundred outings and sexuality has never been a topic of
discussion around the campfire. Again, much ado about nothing.
@San Diego Chargers Fan. See the Austin Statesman, the Martin Turner case that
was just settled. 26 year Scouter, just busted for molesting 3 boys. Still
happens, and I'm sure it's still happening.
Homosexual is not the same as a sexual preditor.I would wager that most secual
abuse against boys in scouting has been perpetraited by married man living in
the heterosexual world. As long as a troop has two-deep leadership
that follow the scouting guidelines I have no problem sending my son to scout
camp. I agree with Chargers Fan.
A boy or girl no matter what their sexual orientation should be allowed in
scouting. No amount of regulations or background checks will stop a predator,
only a fool would believe it would
Just end the relationship already. The BSA is just another corporation that has
succumbed to peer pressure in this awful period of secularism and has
compromised its core values. If it wasn't for the fear of
losing "friends of scouting" donations, BSA leadership would have made
the "switch" years ago.
I have withheld my "Friends of Souting donation" and will await the
outcome. Even if the LDS Church caves, I will not.
What does the Scout Law and Oath mean? What does "morally
straight" mean? What does "duty to God" mean?If a religion teaches that homosexuality is wrong, does someone that
doesn't agree with that teaching have the right to try and force a change
within that religion? Upon what basis might the religion believe
that homosexuality is wrong? If the basis is historical and
scriptural, should that basis and belief be respected.What does the
US Constitution or Bill of Rights state regarding religion?What is
the right of religion in this country to establish and maintain doctrinal
beliefs? Is there risk in allowing courts, government, special
interest groups, or others to try to force a religion to adopt practices that
are contrary to their beliefs?Are there protections under the law
that keep courts, government, special interest groups or others who abuse
religions over doctrinal issues to be held accountable for their abuses
(vandalism, for example).Does the traditional values of Scouting
mean anything today? What are those traditional values? Did those values
provide meaningful structure, teachings, or foundation to the lives of Boy
Scouts?Do those traditional values harm others?
This will be a local issue.Talk to your local chartering org.It is very easy to skip events that would mingle scouts from other
areas. If you are concerned about this, work to insure that your local group is
in line with your beliefs and have your kid forgo any activities that involve
other troops that are not in line with your beliefs.Problem solved.
Well, that is unless your are intent on forcing your beliefs on
others that dont affect you.
@Jonathan EddyI couldn't agree with you more. My son worked at
a camp for the summer, and the director ended up paying him what amounted to $1
an hour plus room (a tent) and board. Then, while the CEO of Scouting was
pulling down a $4 million dollar retirement package, my son had to buy his Staff
Jacket (he was required to wear) out of that $1/hour. My wife spent one whole
Saturday teaching at a Jamboral. To show how much they appreciated it, they
allowed her to PAY FOR HER OWN lunch that was provided, while I assume the
professional scouters ate for free.
BSA is making a huge and irreversible mistake if they succumb to those who would
destroy the organization for the sake of being politically correct.
furthermore, if it happens, the numbers of those joining because of the action
be a small drop in the bucket compared to flood of participants leaving. It is always interesting that the groups that demand acceptance and
understanding for themselves cannot provide it to anyone else.
After taking the survey I became concerned the BSA has already set course to
offload this decision on chartered organizations. It may give the LDS Church a
welcome way to maintain involvement without admitting openly gay leaders, but by
dividing and conquering,radical factions may have already won. If
this is the case, they cowed BSA into abandoning founding principles. They have
also set up any smaller chartered organizations who choose not to allow gay
members/leaders to endure the public pressure & possible future litigation
alone. A cowardly way to avoid losing money @ the top and save face amidst heavy
advocacy group pressure.Results of tactics used by these groups are
either slow death by perpetual, unrelenting smear campaigns & resource
draining litigation or suicide by surrendering core beliefs upon which their
entire existence was founded to appeasement. I wish BSA would stand
up to the pressure groups. BSA is not intolerant of having gay
members--currently there are many participating. It's about who they want
at the rudder. Gay radicals aren't satisfied until they call ALL the shots.
David CentervilleYou bring up great points. I think the issue with
the BSA if they allow the change is really about money. With the risk of
loosing corporate sponsors and other legal issue they want a change. Does not
make sense because goes against there foundation of values. It is amazing how
"we" or really the BSA can justify this change, but when it comes to
protecting there salaries seems that is more important then the core values and
what the masses think. We can justify anything these days to meet our needs
weather right or wrong.
All human beings have a dark side. I am sure that there are those that lust
after the opposite sex however will not admit it and are part of the BSA. so it
would be hypocritical to not allow others not of their belief into the
organization. Mormons are not accepted everywhere; however, they have rights as
well as the Gay Comuninity. Everybody has rights even though we may not believe
in their belief system. It is respect for others. Jesus protected the
prostitute from being stoned; stop throwing stones at others not of your belief.
If the BSA committee allows for the chartered organizations to make the
decision, we may see the chartered organizations who don't accept gay
scouts and leaders being sued by individuals. That probably won't last too
long before those organizations decide to drop the program. Eventually, the only
chartered organizations left would be gay ones. I know this is a slippery slope
argument, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe no one will sue the
chartered organizations that don't allow gay scouts and scout leaders? And
do we honestly believe those church sponsored organizations will continue the
relationship with BSA in the face of lawsuits?
#1. When I was a teenager, I was very active in Boy Scouts. We had a lot of
young men in our ward, and although our leaders were all good men, it was simply
not possible for them to keep an eye on over 20 boys. Our troop had some fun
activities, and we went to some neat places for scout camps, such as Yellowstone
and Lake Powell. However, hen I think back on my days spent in the BSA program,
my predominant memories are of the gambling, swearing, smoking, bullying,
vandalizing, and fighting that mostly went on behind our leaders backs at scout
camps. When my son is a teenager, I won't be upset if he doesn't want
to participate in scouting. If my bishop ever calls me to be a Boy Scout leader,
that's the one calling I won't feel bad about turning down. Based on
my own experience, I think the potential harm from scouting done wrong outweighs
the potential good from scouting done right.
#2. I have a friend who is a Boy Scout leader in his LDS ward. There is a young
man in his troop who is physically intimate with his girlfriend. This boy
doesn't come to church, but he does participate in scouting. The leadership
in that ward sees scouting as a kind of outreach opportunity - a way to involve
this boy with his peers who could be a positive influence. If there's no
problem with this boy participating in the LDS scouting program, why would there
be any problem allowing an openly gay scout to participate - especially one who
is celibate? This seems especially ridiculous given the statements the LDS
Church has made over the last decade emphasizing that being gay is not a sin as
long as you "don't act on those urges", and that homosexual
relationships are no worse than heterosexual relationships outside of marriage.
The Scout pledge speaks for itself "morally straight." Should that be
changed after being recited by Scouts for over a hundred years? This was meant
to be taken seriously by generations of Scouts as a moral code of conduct. It
shouldn't be revized or changed.
Tempest in a teapot. By the very name of the organization, "Boy Scouts of
America", promotes values that are and have been perfectly moral and
acceptable to the majority of participants and supporters. Now, in an attempt
at social engineering, a small minority claiming to be "different"
wishes to change this in order to accomodate a different set of values. In
legal terms this is commonly known as "special pleading", and is not
sufficient justification for changing the rules. Let the "LGBT"
community create and support their own organization, "LGBT Scouts" that
caters to and fosters acceptance of the deviant behavior that they seek to
normalize and force on everyone else.
The survey is flawed because it does not define or deferentiate between active
behavior and inclinations that are not and may not ever be acted upon. I started
the survey but did not complete it because I could not articulate the diffence
between active behavior and inclinations and the examples given did not
distinguish the issues either.
RE: Jim CobabeYour argument (how we shouldn't bend to the
wishes of a small minority that wants the establishment to accomodate a set of
values different from the well-established norm) could have been easily used
against the de-segregation movement of the '60s. Indeed, your suggestion
that the LGBT community should create its own organization strikes me as a
"seperate-but-equal" sort of mentality.
The founding principal some of you have forgotten: Baden Powell founded
the scouts to prepare young men to go to war when they were old enough.The rest of it was window dressing.Now it's all window
dressing and religious propaganda for most. ...and I'm an Eagle
Scout who worked at different scout camps around the US.Gay does not equal
pedophile any more than clergy equals pedophile.
The Boy Scouts of America has been one of the few organizations that has stood
up to the polical pressures to change american morals. I have been very
supportive of them in the past, but if they cave in to the militant gay agenda,
I will not be supportive anymore. I don't have any problems with people
that are gay- I have problems when they try to tell me that what I believe is
wrong and try to force me to change. Isn't that what they complain about as
well? Why should the Boy Scouts change thier morals? Don't tell me that
this is a civil rights issue. It is not one. No one has rights being infringed
upon them. It is not a right to be able to join the boy scouts. Just like the
girl scouts won't allow a boy in their troop, the boy scouts can decide who
they let in and who they don't. The only reason the Boy Scouts are under
attack is because they have chosen to stand up to the LGBT folk.
I took the survey yesterday and the questions were very informative.I believe
this survey will be helpful to the BSA National Board to make a decision in May
2013. I favor this type of survey over a handful of Board members making a
decision without input from the Scout leaders that will be directly effected by
the Boards final vote. The fact that the homosexual scouts have been secretly
members is at best a character flaw in their desire to be a Scout. Knowing that
they broke the policy without reservations is not what Scouting is all about
refering to the Scout Oath and Law the foundation of the BSA.Scouts are always
reminded to live these values everyday is a clear message to be a Scout of
integrity. My thoughts are that our nation has become a divided nation because
of the constant pressure to make changes in a system that is not broke. It is
not that changes are not good. It is a matter using discrimination to solve
discrimination. This proposed change in legally allowing homosexuals in the
program is the most important decision that the BSA has ever faced since its U.S
Keep in mind that the proposal is that each troop / chartering org can make
their own choice.In Utah, since the vast majority are chartered by
the LDS church, how will that affect Utah Scouting?Yes, maybe one
may choose not to go to national or regional scouting events, but is that really
a big deal?This whole issue will affect Utah less then anywhere
else. What do you care what they do in Idaho or Florida?It wont
affect you in the least.
How do you justify abandonment of the Scout Oaths? Where is the Scouting's
Character? Money trumps the Oath. Do you realize that in order to accommodate
the proposal you would have to rewrite the oaths. What is an individual's
Duty to God in regard to homosexuality when it is considered a sin by the Bible?
What does Morally Straight mean in regard to character given your Duty to God?
No one objected to having a few clandestine homosexual scouts or leaders as long
as they were not openly gay and absolutely respected the idea of not ever
bringing sexuality into conversation or action. The movement in society has
placed sexuality over scouting. Any compromise to allow local chapters
to decide the issue is simply passing the buck on a hard decision. If the GLBT
wins this battle the victory will be parlayed into momentum for gay marriage.
Once "married" they will want children through whatever legal or medical
mechanism is available. Not only is abuse a concern but the deeper concern is
their opportunity to mold a generation to their views on open sexuality. This
is fundamentally wrong and the Scouts ought not facilitate acceptance of open
Remember Christ protected the prostitute and ate with the sinners. Then he said
"GO YOUR WAY AND SIN NO MORE." Then he said "COME FOLLOW ME"
meaning "DO AS YOU HAVE SEEN ME DO".He didn't say join me in your
sin. Every one always leaves out the second part of the story.
@Jim --"By the very name of the organization, "Boy Scouts of
America", promotes values that are and have been perfectly moral and
acceptable to the majority of participants and supporters."The
name is "Boy Scouts of America", not "straight Mormon Boy Scouts of
America". Multiple Christian denominations welcome homosexual members, as
well as non-Christian groups that also do so. It seems to me that the
"special pleading" being done is on the side of the LDS and Catholic
members who want to overrule the beliefs of more liberal religious groups, as
well as denying the civil rights of homosexuals in general.As
someone else already pointed out, "homosexual" does not mean "sexual
predator". Straight women are allowed to participate in BSA, and they are
just as likely to be attracted to young male scouts as homosexual men are. BSA membership has already dropped 20% since this policy went to court
in 2000. Multiple large corporate sponsors have also dropped out, and continue
to do so. The BSA is shooting itself in the foot by continuing this
discrimination. Since the man expected to be the next President of the National
BSA Board also opposes it, hopefully it will end soon.
Go ahead and let the gays into the Boy Scouts. Then say goodbye to the LDS
Church sponsership which would be the death knell to scouting.
Since when did "morally strong" translate to homosexuality? Answer:
Agree with Dutchman. Does "openly gay" mean, same gender attracted but
not actively engaged in sexual relations or does it mean actively engaged in
sexual relation? Does it mean both, either, or something else? The answers
might be different depending on the definitions.
We raised 5 boys who are eagle scouts with their father very involved in
scouting in many positions, both local and district, and serving on several
woodbadge staffs. I served as a den leader for many years and as scout
committee chairman. We love scouting and have always contributed to Friends of
Scouting. We love the standards taught by the Scout Oath and the skills taught
through programs and merit badges. As leaders and parents we always taught our
boys to stand for the principles of scouting no matter what peer pressure they
may encounter, even if it's hard.How sad it is to see that
wonderful institution ready to abandon principles and change standards due to
peer pressure. For the sake of sponsorship or to avoid litigation they would
change their very core beliefs. Although sponsoring units will be able to limit
their membership according to their beliefs, all council and district training
materials will have to be changed to reflect acceptance of LBGT units. The
words "morally straight" will have to be stricken from the oath. Next
athiests will demand acceptance and God will be removed.The BSA
needs to stand by the principles it has always taught.
Here in San Diego it seems there are just as many female scoutmasters and
assistant scoutmasters as male ones. I go to Roundtable and am almost
outnumbered by the females. As I mentioned in my original comment, sexuality
and sexual attraction are never topics of discussion in scout meetings or on
outings. Youth protection guidelines provide are enough to keep boys safe.My role as an LDS scoutmaster is first and foremost that of "youth
minister" and "priesthood leader", with scouting providing many
valuable tools to teach the boys under my stewardship. If we were to go to a
camporee where another troop had an openly gay scout in attendance, I try to
imagine what President Monson would do or say if he were with us. He would
probably teach and encourage the boys, just as I try to do in my role as
scoutmaster. To think that my boys would somehow infer that homosexuality is
encouraged just because there happens to be another "gay-friendly" troop
there is absurd. Some of the "abandonment of the Scout
Oath/Character" comments here reflect the insular perspective of somebody
who has grown up knowing only scouting in Utah. Chill out!
Funny to see how many people seem to know what the LDS church will do if BSA
changes its membership policies. From many comments here ("Say goodbye to
LDS church sponsorship") you must know President Monson better that the rest
of us do. The LDS church openly embraces gays. To Quote Elder D. Todd
Christopherson of the Twelve:"Someone who is adhering to the
norm of chastity, someone who is following the covenants and the standards,
teachings of the gospel of Christ, though they may be dealing with same-sex
attraction really there’s no reason they cannot be fully participative,
that they can’t be a full-fledged member of the Church and hold callings
and speak and enter the temple and serve there, and all the other opportunities
and blessings that can come from Church membership will be available to
them."If the BSA changes its membership to be more in line with
the LDS policy, why would the Church object?
@San Diego Chargers FanI guess it depends on what your definition of
"openly gay" is. Usually, people who have same sex attraction but are
not, and don't intend to be, sexually active are not considered "openly
gay," atleast not to me. Openly gay individuals generally are not living
the standards and teachings of the Church and are quite "open" about it.
They do not accept "the norm of chastity" that Elder Christopherson
spoke of.The proposed change by BSA will not make it more in line
with LDS policy.
@Mc -- you make very valid point. What does a scout troop
(especially an LDS unit) do with a boy who is openly defying the religious
values his church espouses? What would an eagle board of review do with a boy
who had admittedly violated the law of chastity with his girlfriend? Would it
be different if he were actively working through the repentance process with his
bishop? What if he has viewed pornography? Should the scout troop kick him
out? Should he be denied the rank of eagle? These are all (in my view)
violations of the oath to be "morally straight".How does BSA
handle these situations? I would hope that the standard would be the same
regardless of whether his temptations were homosexual or heterosexual.
@jondo --"How do you justify abandonment of the Scout
Oaths?"Many people -- the people fighting against BSA
discrimination -- believe that abandoning the policy does not require abandoning
the oaths."What is an individual's Duty to God in regard to
homosexuality when it is considered a sin by the Bible?"Eating
shellfish is considered a sin by the Bible. Is that grounds for excluding
someone from the Scouts? "No one objected to having a few
clandestine homosexual scouts or leaders as long as they were not openly
gay"If you use this policy, you are encouraging people to lie.
Isn't that also a sin?"Once "married" they will
want children through whatever legal or medical mechanism is available."Yup, just as much as any infertile couple might."Not
only is abuse a concern"Why is abuse a special concern? Straight
women are allowed to participate in the BSA, and they are just as likely to be
attracted to young men as gay men are. In fact, if you use this argument you
should really encourage lesbian women to participate -- no risk of sexual abuse
Rick for truth, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for your stance. I stand with
Boys don't need a homosexual males for a leader. Teenagers who suffer from
gender identity disorder and same-sex attraction have problems that need special
attention. To put these boys or girls in a regular scout troop would probably
be very traumatic to them. I hope that the Boy Scouts of America doesn't go
this way. Perhaps if young males received more support and less bashing by
society, we wouldn't have so much of this problem.
It's a Private Organization....Capiche?Outside groups
should start their own organizations instead of trying to impose their will on
long established traditions.If the Boy Scouts bow to this political
pressure, look for Mormons, Cathloics, Methodists and Baptists to start new
scouting organiztions altogether. Then the Scouts will lose 75% of
their sponsorships overnight.It's my understanding that the LDS
Church has had such a prorgram ready to go for 20 years.
This is more about upholding morals. Not particularly about predators (although
that is an important issue) and not about money (although that is also an
important issue). This is about upholding morals that one believes in.The BSA has lost some of my respect for even considering this issue. I am so
tired of people and organizations caving on important principles. Some say it is
a good thing they are surveying their stake holders, but I say they
shouldn't even be considering it.
"Morally straight" was not a statement about sexuality.The
BSA is basically going to continue its bigotry and put the blame on the
membership for it. Standup, BSA -- lead.
A Scout is morally straight. That seems pretty darn straight forward. Its a
fundamental and important part of what makes up a Boy Scout. Why bother with the
organization if you're going to pry up all the planks that it is founded
on? What's the point?Homosexuals are free, if they want an
organization like the BSA, to go out and create their own organization and set
it up to uphold whatever values they want to promote. Nobody is stopping them. I
fully support them in that exercise of their rights. What I strongly oppose is
their effort to go out and attack other peoples beliefs and try and force their
agenda down their throats. They can believe what they want to believe in their
own organizations and their own churches. Leave me be. It's very simple.
Render Bender: Doesn't sound like a Scout Troop at all. If there are
leaders who believe in Scouting and scouters who believe in scouting, the types
of activiites you mentioned are handled quickly, thus the need for the Scouting
program to have strict rules on behavior and purpose. Without them, Scouting is
useless, as per your personal experience.
@Mc"The words "morally straight" will have to be stricken from
the oath. Next athiests will demand acceptance and God will be removed."Good point. Once they cave to the pressure of homosexual activists,
Humanists will be next. After that it will be people who hate
America and think the U.S.A. is a corrupt nation who oppresses other countries
and the flag and symbols of freedom the USA espouses like the Eagle are all
symbols of the oppression the USA forces on the rest of the world. These people
will then work to have any recognition the BSA gives to those national emblems
of freedom be removed from the program just like other liberal groups have
successfully done with recognition of God and with morality.Pack
Meetings and Court of Honors will no longer begin with a flag ceremony, pledge
of allegiance and a prayer. Instead it will begin with a moment of silence and a
caution not to pray or think of the flag.By then the BSA will be
dead and the liberal groups will have won. At that point it will be on to the
next set of victims. Conservative Christian Churches.
I would like to see the BSA leave the matter to is charter organizations, but
also provide leadership counsel on 'best practices', and even leave
open the possibility of expelling groups that move too far beyond the boundaries
of these best practices. I think the LDS church already takes (or
has the potential to, in places where there's little experience and
tradition is entrenched) a rather moderate stance when it comes to this issue.
I also think that showing and having compassion for all boys is the
best outcome. If the BSA does shape boys into young men with strong values,
virtues, and integrity, then shouldn't there be an outreach to those young
men who are born with tendencies that challenge the cookie-cutter male
experience (if there is such a thing)?Imagine you're a young
LDS youth, you feel Samesex feelings. You started scouting before you knew
anything about sexuality as a cub scout. Now you start to realize that if you
divulge your feelings, you will be kicked out of your scout troup. Suddenly the
spotlight is blinding. The young man is taught to hide and hold it in
[continued]Rather than remaining in a state of denial about these
confusing feelings, the LDS leadership has put a lot of effort into encouraging
its members who feel this way to confess them and find ways to live in
acceptance of it. It encourages fellow saints to be tolerant and kind to those
who don't fit their own mold. If youre that youth and all your
friends are going to scouts, and you cant, doesnt that invade your privacy
regardless whether you want people knowing? Before the boy even has a chance to
figure out himself, he's put in a box. This is not LDS, its the
world way. Look at gay rolemodels. They follow hackneyed flaming archetypes. A
youth in that situation doesnt realize he has choices. They dont have to give up
their testimonies, membership, friends, or dream of parenthood. They dont have
to follow the worlds course and they can find this out if they arent hiding
it.I fear some feel it better a millstone be hung around their necks
and they be drowned for a condition they didnt consciously choose. Its time we pursued acceptance so these youth. Tell them they have choices.
@ "San Diego Chargers Fan - San Diego, CAFunny to see how many people
seem to know what the LDS church will do if BSA changes its membership policies.
From many comments here ("Say goodbye to LDS church sponsorship") you
must know President Monson better that the rest of us do. The LDS church openly
embraces gays."Wrong!You are insinuating that the
LDS church accepts homosexual activity as being morally acceptable but they do
not. "Love the sinner?" Sure. "Accept the sin?" Nope.This issue with homosexuals pushing to be allowed into the Boy Scout
troops is not about just accepting "people" but accepting people BECAUSE
(in their opinion) the actions and values they (homosexuals) have is not wrong
BSA Scout Oath for 2013:On my honor, I will do my best, To do
my duty, for the almighty dollar, and to fake the Scout Law; To help other
people when it's politically expedient; To keep myself physically
strong, mentally awake and morally faint.
this is really a non-issue. LDS parents will not support BSA if homosexuals are
allowed as scout masters. Very simple. BSA can survey all they want but they
really ought to already know the answer. They will lose the major source of
their funding if they allow homosexuals ... it is their choice.
Don't confuse homosexuality with predator. Child molesters are predators.
They aren't looking for same-sex sex. Predators look for victims. Two-Deep
leadership is just one safeguard against this.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints allows all young men who have
same-sex attraction to be active scouts. However, to allow openly gay meaning
they are living the gay lifestyle are not allowed to be scout leaders or in the
scouting program. The same is done with any Young Woman who is sexually active
to no longer be active in the Young Women program. They are treated as an adult
and must therefore attend adult activities. Those with same-sex attraction may
actually be leaders in the scouting program. However, this is not about those
having same-sex attraction. This change is about those who are actually living
in the gay/lesbian lifestyle which the LDS Church neither condones or supports.
The website for same-sex attraction is there to give support to these
individuals and to help them to live a chaste life. It does state that many who
have same-sex attraction may never be able to have a family or a spouse in this
life but if they live a very chaste life that they will be able to have all of
this in the next life.
San Diego Chargers fan. You missed one important fact the Church has firmly
stated that active Homosexuality is a sin the message could not be more clear.
The statement that the LDS Church openly accepts the acts of Homosexuality is a
untrue. Please reread your own comment from a statement made by Elder Todd D.
Christopherson Quote: "Someone who is adhering to the norm of chastity,
someone who is following the covenants and the standards, teachings of the
gospel of Christ, though they may be dealing with same-sex attraction really
there’s is no reason they cannot be fully participative, that they can be
a full-fledged member of the Church and hold callings and speak and enter the
temple and serve there, and all the other opportunities and blessings that can
come from Church membership will be available to them." Unquote. Dealing
with same sex means not being an active homosexual as a member of the Church. It
means that a person must repent and they are not Temple worthy if they are
actively homosexual. Normal chastity is sex between a married man and women the
Church teaches this to all its members.
The Assembly of God has the Royal Rangers. LDS could do similar.
@ San Diego,You might be mistaken in what your first job is. As
Scoutmaster in an LDS-chartered troop, your job is the same as a Scoutmaster in
a non-LDS chartered troop; that of teaching the boys to run the troop, to make
decisions and to make sure the Scouting program is followed. Being a Priesthood
holder in addition to that just helps you recognize who the real leader is: the
SPL. The one with the keys makes the decisions. Don't confuse your
Scouting position with your Church position. You serve in the one to teach,
coach, mentor and support. You have the other to make sure that the righteous
principles are shown to be the same as in Scouting. When you use them both to
get the boys to lead and make decisions, you succeed and so do they.
First it was jokes about gays, then the question is he gay. then the coming out
of the closet. Now it is cram it down our throats. Seems like they have been
using the line upon line concept really well. Crack this door open and wait and
see what will be thrown at the church. just look back at prop 8 in california.
In 1964 a russia leader told then Sec. Of Agriculture Elder Benson (President
Benson) that America would be destroyed from within. he asked why because the
american people are so gullible. It's one thing to be gay and another to
have it crammed down our throats. Kids at school can't even use the word
gay in its proper form without being wriiten up.
@BornthatwayDon't you pay attention? The LDS Church
doesn't discipline members who have Same Gender attraction. They reach out
to and embrace those members. Its when they choose to violate covenants
they've made with regards to acting on those attractions that they are
subject to church action. If a YM in an LDS Scout troop tells his
Bishop he has Same Sex attraction but he is still living a Morally straight life
then he will be fine.
People, just because a person is gay, doesnt make them a child molestor
Leaving the decision to the chartered organizations leaves them open to lawsuits
over the issue, plain and simple. The defense against these lawsuits will be
very expensive, regardless of the outcome. The BSA is caving to corporate
sponsors, and I'm not sure why. They already lost Levi Strauss and Wells
Fargo years ago over this issue and changing the standards was not considered
then. Where is the "morally straight" standard for the Executive Board?
I'm not a scouting fan by any stretch. I believe it helps the young boys
that want to be in it but it isn't for every young man. In fact those who
don't want to be in it are a pain for the the leaders and distraction from
the intent of the program. Having said that, I feel that this is more of a
political issue that a sexual orientation issue. Let them be scouts. I
don't care. Just quit shoving it down my throat what your sexual preference
is. In most cases you aren't picked on or not bullied. And you
wouldn't be bullied or picked on at all if you wouldn't make it a
central issue in your life. Political correctness con a muck, and will destroy
scouting like everything else. Ahhh I feel much better.
Scuting will be fine in LDS hands. It is still the best program avaialable to
support the LDS Aronic Priestoon proglram. Young potintial gays are hardly
identifiable at scout age..let it go. Leaders are carefully checked out to
eleminate potential problems also. Looks like the active gay community has the
National Councel on the run however. Too bad. About the money, pinch the pennies
and dollare to go into your scouting programs and make the professionals sweat
for wheat they get.They are overpaid. Do not buy into every money scheme they
throw out.Just say NO THANKS.
Patriot-You don't speak for all LDS parents and I wonder how may
actually share your view.
If you don't allow the gay scouts to join, then where will they find good,
male role models?
Morality or not? That is the only question. If in fact living a homosexual
lifestyle is moral, then scouts should let them in and give them pink badges. If
in fact it is not, then they can not join nor can they lead.If BSA
decides that morality is determined by the winds of change, then in my opinion
the churches that think morality is still Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, they
should jettison the BSA and let the LBGT support them.
Midwest Mom, very good question. Maybe the answer is no gay leaders and
don't ask don't tell on the scout.