silly law to make only worse thing they are doing is moving the prison so they
and a few people can make a lot of money and the tax payers will pay for their
pofit in higher transport fee's and new construction. the money for
transporting prisoners will be huge. and they will still transport patients to
the u hospital so gasoline bills will be higher. only the people directly in the
bussiness there will see money. tax will not come because they give bussinesses
sweet deals to cvome to utah. we the tax payers will pay for it.
As someone who carried a firearm on the job, I can say that allowing concealed
carry without permit is unlikely to cause any more issues than open carry does
now. The majority of gun owners are hesitant to carry in public for many valid
reasons. They aren't looking to get into conflicts. The main reason for
carry is self-protection. Pulling out a firearm with intent to use it,
isn't something most people do easily. All the training does, is make sure
one knows basic safety rules and proper use of the weapon. Most owners already
know all this. It does nothing to train people how to react to danger.
You'll learn how to shoot, but not when. The driving analogy is ludicrous.
People drive every day and collisions still happen. When's the last time
you had to draw a weapon and fire it? In 19 years on the job, I never had to
fire once, although I had to draw one several times. Often times, the sight of a
gun ends the need to use it. You're way more likely to hurt someone with
re: ett I disagree with one of your points...some do look for conflict. I had
a buddy who stopped to help with a 'road rage' incident between a man
and a woman. The jerk involved with that event'flashed' a gun from
out of his car. What about him? I feel better knowing he can carry a gun
anywhere.I'd think you'd be more concerned with casual
citizens carrying guns. The more there on the street the more likely to see one
From the article - Sen. Karen Mayne, D-Salt Lake City: Guns, she said, are
deadly. "And if you pick up something that's deadly, you better be
skilled at it or leave it alone."I don't disagree with you,
Senator Mayne. However, what relevancy does this have to the concealed vs
open-carry debate? If I am allowed to carry a gun openly, how does putting a
sweater on over it, or untucking my shirt, etc., make it more dangerous? Please
explain that to me.
So any paranoid, untrained fool can carry a gun. Yeah, I feel so much safer.
"The more there on the street the more likely to see one used
incorrectly."Here's 'Something [else] To Think
About:The "blood in the street" fear is STILL trotted out by
gun-grabbers and politicians who don't trust the law-abiding electorate. It
didn't prove true when Utah went from discretionary to "shall
issue" concealed carry, nor when Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming adopted
so-called "constitutional" carry legislation like this. The fact is,
violent crime rates went down.Robert Heinlein was right: "An
armed society is a polite society." But don't hold your breath waiting
for the gun-grabbers and pandering politicians to admit it.
So if an over-aggressive police officer in Vernal didn't let the badge and
power go to his head by hassling a hunter during a rain storm, then this would
have been a non-issue. No wonder we need a law to dictate every iota of our
life, because some police officer with a big ego couldn't use the brain god
gave him to correctly assess a "threat" from a hunter in a rain storm.
Nothing like "to serve and protect" to "hassle and intimidate".
Who more paranoid, and doesn't trust his fellow man...The man
who calmly goes about his daily business, without fear, trusting his neighbor,
and building a better free-er Society?orThe man who
constantly suspects EVERYONE, who trust No-one, who lives in perpetual fear and
anxiety, mentally tracks and targets ANYONE, including his neighbors, always
feeling persecuted or inferior and must therefore hermit away - a self made
prisoner - from Society?
I was pulled over in Provo because an officer thought my motorcycle was too
loud. Turns out, after about an hour of "harassment" and another
officer coming to check, that my bike was legal. I am wonder if the dear
congressperson in Vernal would please raise a bill making it illegal for cops to
harass people on motorcycles....After all, my motorcycle is a
protect form of free speech. Exactly how many people have been
"harassed" necessitating a law to protect them? An considering a gun
without a round chambered to be "unloaded".... are you kidding me? I
don't get what problem these people actually think they are solving. Of
all the issues Utah needs to address.... this was on the top of the legislative
calendar... not fixing the continuous water issues. Not fixing the problems
in education. Not fixing the sprawling - and in some areas hardly planned
growth. This was a top priority.Any joe blow can now walk into a
theatre with a loaded weapon.... and this improves public safety and protects
If guns make us safer, why aren't we the safest country in the world?
John in SLCYou make a valid point. I can see no problem with open or
conceal carry by citizens as long as we have our present laws. Criminals, carry
cocealed without a permit,and others who choose to violate the present laws do
so also. So what does it matter. I worry however about the casualness of some of
the citizenry in keeping loaded firearms around their homes and work where they
can be accesed by children and other irresponsible people, that could bring on
some problems. Question, when did you last hear of anyone being arrested for
concealing a concealed firearm illegally?
Elcapitan:Read State v. Williams, 636 P.2d 1092 (Utah 1981), for an
history lesson on one such arrest. That case was part of the impetus for the
state legislature to get realistic. As far as your worry that
irresponsible people might misuse a constitutional right, I guess every
constitutional right carries risks. But test isn't required to exercise a
constitutional right. Otherwise we wouldn't have uniformed and star-struck
voters electing unqualified politicians, or people shouting unpopular
sentiments, or cops ignoring warrants, or people building homes in flood plains
or letting their kids play unattended in swimming pools, etc. Frankly, I worry about pandering politicians and gadfly do-gooders who try to
inhibit my rights because they THINK that I MIGHT be stupid.
UTAH Bill:Fact is, guns are just tools. But if you believe strict
gun prohibitions make you safer, I guess you'll be leaving Utah and moving
to Chicago or Washington, D.C. soon. Private handgun ownership by law-abiding
citizens remains incredibly difficult there (despite the Supreme Court's
rulings). They are the safest cities in the U.S., right?Oh, . . .
wait.It's people with the right tools to protect themselves
that make us all safer.
Are they bringing back dueling too? Should tote on hip to quick draw and kill
your opponent quicker. Can you attach an assault firearm to your pickup truck?
Will be easy to get a citizen posse to make us safer.
The "Constitutional Carry" issue is about good guys having to get a
permission slip to carry a legal self defense tool. HB76 is a good bill and
should be passed and signed by the Governor.The bad guys don't
care about any laws, and don't bother with permits! Thus, the current
permit requirement does NOT disarm criminals, only good guys.Constitutional carry is not some crazy idea filled with unknown dangers or
promoting random gunfire. Vermont has had this forever, Alaska for 10 years,
Arizona for 3 years and Wyoming for 2 years with ZERO problems. And, other
states are considering adopting it too.Pass the bill!
I strongly support the right to bear arms.Many of the most dangerous
cities in the USA have the most restrictive gun laws so the innocent are left
with no guns and the criminals are gunning down record numbers of people in
cities like Chicago.All that being said I'm not sure its a good
idea to let criminals/unstable people legally conceal and carry guns around.Need to solve the exception/basis for the law without upsetting the
apple cart. That said I don't think someone should be harassed because it
is raining and they put on a raincoat that happens to cover their gun either.
What are you supposed to do? Just strap the gun over the coat out in the rain?
That doesn't work.So tired of law enforcement/judges who
can't step back and apply some reasonable judgement to situations like
this. Quit bothering people that aren't causing a problem to begin with.
Go solve some real crime.
"....Fact is, guns are just tools....."______________________________That was true once upon a time.
Settlers going west in the 19th century brought guns with them along with an ax,
a plow, a shovel, and other implements of necessity for every day living. They
took care of their tools which they needed to take care of them. They were aware
of the hazards of careless handling.That was then. Today, very few
people really need a gun. They just want one. What was once a tool is now an
item of sporting equipment, a status symbol, a means of feeling a sense of
personal empowerment, something to keep in the glove compartment or under the
front seat for ‘just in case,’ or something to just hold in their
hands while standing in front of the bedroom mirror admiring what a tough guy
looks like.Add a provision to the Utah law. For every murder victim
killed by a concealed weapon, the state of Utah pays $5 million to the
victim’s next of kin. That would show that the lawmaker’s hearts are
in the right place.
Since there are reciprocal states, hopefully, this would not allow all the
criminals in those other reciprocal states to come here and do whatever they
wanted. They would find a way for that to happen and Washington
County wouldn't be the highest number of permits, since you wouldn't
need a permit. The liberals in the Federal government would force
us to be at least as effective by passing a national law that would override
ours. It seems the Governor may be right on this one, just let it be. The Feds would love to push the law of reciprocity with us and we would
lose what we have even now. Hopefully, the Senate will rethink this process in
two days. The Governor has given in before to the commonsense approach.
People do have the 2nd Ammendment right to Bear Arms (Carry guns). However many
people have expressed that if they go into a store and see someone carrying a
gun this makes them uncomfortable.
If this law is passed, it would be good if Utah would put on their website
videos teaching people the legal and safe use of guns. I have a permit to carry
and even I would benefit be watching such videos as a refresher.
I feel so much safer knowing that people who haven't the faintest clue what
they're doing can buy a gun and accidentally kill multiple people. Hmmm...
I sense a mistake.
If you want to drive a potentially deadly vehicle, car, truck, whatever, you
have to have a license that shows you at least have a basic understanding of how
to do so. Your vehicle has to be registered. It has to pass safety
inspections.Why should things be different with guns? I can tell
you, I do not feel safer knowing that any belligerent guy can walk around with a
gun in his pocket.There are going to be more gun tragedies in this state
if such a law passes. But our fine legislators will say it isn't
@JohninSLC"But if you believe strict gun prohibitions make you
safer"Seems to be the case in Canada, the UK, Sweden, Norway,
France, Germany, Japan...
If a person is so afraid of society that they think they need to pack a gun at
all time's is definately someone that I don't want to be around.
These same paranoid people will carry their guns to church, go figure!
I have mixed feelings on this one.1. Law breakers and nut cases
aren't going to obey the law anyways, so this doesn't apply to them.
They will carry now whether they have a permit or not.2. You will
now have more people carrying guns, but without going through a class to teach
them how to handle a firearm. If you've never used one before, they can be
confusing depending on what kind you get. I hope that if people just go out and
buy, they at least take responsibility and use it over and over again with
practice before they actually decide to carry it.
I've had a CFP for a couple of years. Whether "open" or
"concealed", it doesn't matter to me. I will say however, it is
obvious that we are safer when we are armed. The fact that schools are "gun
free zones" and that's where the wackos go, is evidence of that. Had
someone in the theater in Aurora, Colorado, had a firearm, the guy would have
been taken out before he had a chance to kill 70 people. The same applies with
the school shootings. While I'm all for less government oversight in our
lives (I don't trust them one iota), I believe the training is valuable and
should be required for all gun owners. I wouldn't suggest refresher
classes every five years however. But, I would be supportive of
"everyone" who owns a gun, being required to take the class. When you
buy a gun, you show your proof of having been trained. The class covers use,
handling and safety and Utah State law; as well as, learning what your rights
and limitations are. As was pointed out, you don't hand over the car keys
to someone who's not received adequate training.
To all the people who have said that seeing a guy carrying a gun in public in
plain sight makes you feel uneasy, this law will benefit you by allowing those
without permits to not carry openly.Criminals are already allowed to
carry baseball bats in the open or concealed. They are allowed to carry acid,
or gasoline and matches if they wish.The point is this law will not
make you less safe.
A new study released in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc.,ranked all 50
states based on the number of gun laws on the books, which fell under five broad
categories: curb firearm trafficking, strengthen background checks, improve
child safety, ban military-style assault weapons, and restrict guns in public
places. The states were divided into four groups based on their legislative
score, 0 to 28. Then the study applied gun-related death data from 2007 to 2010
provided by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).Overall, the states with the most laws had a 42 percent lower gun-death rate
than states with the least number of laws.Since 1996, the CDC has
been explicitly barred by Congress from researching the causes and prevention of
gun violence as a public-health issue. Some conservative lawmakers believed that
antigun researchers would politicize the data. In an executive order on Jan. 16,
President Obama directed the CDC to study the best ways to reduce gun
violence.But researchers will have to wait to see if Congress goes
on to appropriate funds for gun violence research.
This is idiosy of which Republicans are the epitome! There as also paranoid.
I'm glad to see the Governor Herbert is showing some sense on this issue.
Like he says "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". People need
the training that comes with the permit.
So, let me get this straight: Under current Utah law, no permit or training is
required to openly carry a gun, but it is illegal for that same person to
conceal the weapon? Sorry, I don't get it. How does concealing the weapon
make this person more dangerous? Wouldn't it make the people around them on
the street more comfortable by not having to see it? Why should concealing a
weapon you are already allowed to carry be a crime? Perhaps I am too trusting...
but I trust the people who carry a gun to understand that it is a deadly weapon
that if not properly used could result in their own serious injury, death or
imprisonment if it is misused. I don't see how allowing people who can
already legally carry the weapon to conceal it will suddenly make us less safe.
One last thing regarding the person quoted in the article as saying they keep a
baseball bat by their bed: What if the intruder has a gun (unlikely, I know, but
@Open Minded Mormon: If you are interested in open mindedness, please consider:
These two extremes are not the only choices (blissful ignorance/naivete vs
perpetual fear and anxiety). It is conceivable that a person carrying a gun
would be less paranoid knowing that if a situation should arise they are
prepared to defend themselves. Carrying a gun does not indicate paranoia and
distrust of EVERYONE, to include mentally targeting ANYONE even your neighbors.
Carrying a gun does not mean you feel persecuted and/or inferior and hermit
yourself away from society. All children should enjoy a life of blissful
ignorance and safety. Adults should recognize that there is, in fact, evil in
this world and it's not crazy or paranoid to want to be able to protect
It amazes me that so many pro-gun people assume that everybody who wants to
carry a gun around are all just nice, easy-going, pleasant, smart, reasonable
people. That is a fantasy.Some people are reasonable whether they
have a gun in their possession or not. Others are fools who have no more
business with a gun than a two-year old does. In fact a two-year-old might be
more sensible.For a revealing look at how some people behave, watch how
they drive.Are those bellligerant characters the kind of people you feel
safe with?Some of those crazy drivers will be concealing a weapon with no
more qualification than their legal right to do so, if this law passes. This law is not about being wise, it's about thumbing their collective
noses at the governmemt and especially the President and his 'librul'
cohorts, as they see it. The thought of doing that is so intoxicatng that our
illustrious legislators are completely ignoring the statistics on gun deaths of
all sorts just to show people of more moderate persuasion that they won't
be told what to do with their sacred gun rights.
You have to hide drink bottles behind curtain and have a gun in certain
restaurants? You are free to get a 45 pistol to carry around to the store where
you cannot buy a bottle of wine? When does the Queen of Hearts issue these
Our patriot forefathers also could challenge another person to a duel. THis was
legal under common law. Are there going to be area's designated for
It isn't just this new law that's the problem, as some people have
pointed out. It's the whole any-fool-can-tote-a-gun with no permit required
that's the real problem. Some people are sensible, whether it's
driving a vehicle or carrying a gun. Other people are not. Completely
unnecessary tragedies are going to happen because of the lack of wisdom about
guns and people.Just because someone has the legal right to do something,
doesn't mean they should.Thank you, Republican legislators, for
spending your limited time on this issue instead of focusing on what should be
your real tasks. Thank you for making Utah a less safe place to live. Your
actions are appalling.
"An armed society is a polite society."Or Fear of Death make
people more polite...More Fearmongering from the right wing.
To read some of these posts you'd think that states like Utah, Wyoming,
Colorado, Idaho, Montana, ect were having wild west shootouts all the time.
Truth is, these legal to carry states seem to have much less illegal gun
problems than some of the most restrictive anti gun states. That having been
said, I for one do think that a training course, and background check and such
are a good idea for gun owners. Just like I'd prefer to know that some
teenager who was just starting to drive had taken drivers ed at school.P.S. We used to have a gun club at my middle-school in California which taught
important things about gun safety and use. Do they have that kind of thing
anymore? If not they should.
This Bill is going to make a lot of Concealed Carry instructors sad. Now people
might concealed carry with out paying them money. If you are going to allow
anyone to carry a weapon then at least change the concealed weapons class to
include gun training too. That way, we can differentiate between those who took
absolutely NO effort and those who took a little effort. Better yet, pass a
Bill that makes every adult a "law enforcement officer". Then issue us
all M16's. Yes, do that. Please....
Plenty of people are licensed to drive, this does not mean that they know
anything about their vehicle. How many licensed drivers do you see driving
irresponsibly on a daily basis? Don't fool yourself, a vehicle is a deadly
weapon, and an inexperienced, licensed driver can do more harm and injure many
more people than an inexperienced licensed, or unlicensed gun owner.
More guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens makes society safer--- in fact
there is a 100% correlation. That statistic alone should convince us to make
carry easier for more good citizens. Even with Constitutional Carry, purchasing
a weapon would still be restricted (from the mentally incompetent, felons, etc)
and we should be enforcing that part of the law, which already exists.It's people who have not been around guns much that fear them. But those
of us who grew up with guns and carry them almost every day now, realize they
are merely tools to make our lives safer. There is nothing to fear if people
are careful, just like we must be with a car, a bicycle, or a knife.As patriotic and wise Americans we should be very supportive of any provisions
which protect our God-given, fundamental, natural, unalienable, Constitutionally
protected right to keep and bear arms... which CANNOT be infringed by our
As a licensed driver, you don't drive 24/7, unless maybe you are a truck
driver, and even then you may not drive 365 days a year. At any moment you may
be faced with a situation where your life, the lives of your family, etc. may be
placed in mortal danger. At that moment, wouldn't you want to be able to
take measures to preserve your life and the lives of those you love? I believe
that, in general, there are more good people than bad in the world. I would
much rather have the good people armed than the bad. To say that I must be
licensed and registered to defend my life is ludicrous!