Naval is amusing, he is also correct.
Naval VetYour spin is amusing:"The AP,
Coaches', and BCS polls place a lot more weight on SOS than Sagarin.
That's why Sagarin grants the Y a #26 ranking, whereas none of the other
polls grants them as even receiving votes."So how do you explain
the final rankings for 2011?Coaches/AP/Sagarin/Team/Record/SOS#25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) (90)unranked/#39 Utah(8-5) (49)The truth is, your whole SOS theory is so full of holes it resembles Swiss
cheese.The obviously flaw in your comparison for 2012, is not
considering the fact that SOS is an average of opponent rankings. Consider:Team Y playing two games against #1 and #119 teams would have a
SOS of #60. Team U playing two games against #59 and #61 teams would also
have a SOS of #60. Which team would be ranked higher if both teams went
2-0?BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012 (1-4), Utah only played TWO
(0-2). So even with a lower SOS, it could be argued that BYU played tougher
competition and was more successful.Extrapolating:#26
BYU(8-5) > #61 Utah(5-7)
BYU hasn't had a lot of success lately with coaches who come into Provo
with no previous connection to Cougar football. That said, there were coaches
in the past who came into Provo and really sparked the team---guys like Mike
Holmgren and Doug Scovil. Let's hope that Holliday is one of these.
There is not one unbiased person out there who would say that Utah(who
didn't even go to a bowl game) had a better season than BYU(who not only
went to a bowl game, but won)As for attendance, never are there more
fans from the visitors team at a BYU game than when they play Utah. Just because
it is the only sell-out of the year, doesn't mean Y fans consider it their
bowl game. It just means that Utah fans love to go to a game in Provo once every
two years. To say that the game was over in the 3rd quarter either
means you didn't even watch the game or you simply don't understand
Naval"SOS doesn't matter to Sagarin as much as W/L records. SOS
really DOES make a difference. The AP, Coaches', and BCS polls place a lot
more weight on SOS than Sagarin. That's why Sagarin grants the Y a #26
ranking, whereas none of the other polls grants them as even receiving
votes."This doesn't even make sense. How does the AP, and
Coaches polls place a lot more weight on SOS than Sagarin. You would have to be
a mind reader since both of those polls' results are based on human votes.
As for the BCS poll, it is weighted and the results are based partially on Jeff
Sagarins computer ratings. Also, how could the BCS poll grant anybody as
receiving votes. It's a computer ranking based on the results of 6
different factors entered into a computer, not as a result of votes. Also, the
BCS final rankings come out before the bowl games. Nothing comes out of the BCS
rankings after the bowl games.It is amazing to me the garbage you
will post just to make Utah sound like they had a better season than BYU.
phoenix:"Just like the 80's, BYU has once again become
Utah's bowl game."Sorry cougie. Just because you went back
to the WAC, doesn't mean we're back to the 80s. It's clear by
all the whining about Utah scheduling teams like Michigan and Fresno St. who is
who's "bowl game". How many games had you guys sold out since
leaving the MWC?Answer: ONE...vs. Utah.That's
right. WE were your highest attended game over the past 2 seasons. The same
cannot be said of us when you visited SLC last fall. WE are YOUR bowl game.
There's no way to spin that.
Frantic and emotional Indy-WACers:SOS doesn't matter to Sagarin
as much as W/L records. SOS really DOES make a difference. The AP,
Coaches', and BCS polls place a lot more weight on SOS than Sagarin.
That's why Sagarin grants the Y a #26 ranking, whereas none of the other
polls grants them as even receiving votes.When your 2 big brothers
moved up to the Pac-12 and Big 12 respectively, we saw our SOS increase, and Ws
decrease. When the Y dropped down from the MWC to play WAC football, they saw
their SOS decrease, and the Ws increase. No coincidence there. You'll
find out soon enough once you guys finally play a relevant schedule.SportsFan:The scoreboard determines who is the better team. Utah
was MUCH better in 2011; winning 54-10, and that game was over by Halftime. In
2012, Utah was the better team again, having won that game by the 3rd-Qtr. Good
luck trying to keep up with your big brother with your ever-increasing
percentage of 2-star athletes.
It's baffling how Naval Vet could be so adept at finding Sagarin's SOS
rankings, which are buried all the way over in the 5th or 6th column of
Sagarin's ratings, yet he has so much trouble finding the team rankings,
which are easily found in the 1st column, in numerical order, right next to the
team name.RK Team Rating W L Sched(rank)26 BYU A=80.26 8 5
69.48(63)61 Utah A=71.27 5 7 72.91(41)Since the Utes are so
enamored with SOS, they should make up a little trophy to present to themselves
at their annual awards ceremony to recognize themselves for finishing with the
41st toughest SOS.Just think, if the Utes had had Missouri's
schedule, they could have been #1,in SOS.
navel"Ever wonder why you lost 2 more games in 2012 than you did
in 2011?"U were even more pathetic in 2012, than you were in
2011 when you lost to 10-loss Colorado.Despite all of your boasting
about recruiting, U just aren't good enough to compete in the PAC 10.2.
@naval vetmost fans would agree that #26 is MUCH better
than #61and#34 is better than #39So, how do
you explain BYU being ranked higher by Sagarin, despite Utah's tougher
SOS?The obvious answer, which you are your crimson bubble dwelling
friends on the hill will never admit to, is BYU was MUCH BETTER in
2012, and BYU was a little better in 2011, than U!Just admit it, and move on. None of your SOS spinning is
going to change that!
Naval Vet:I noticed that little "snicker" you added at the
end of one of your latest "impressive" comments. That is actually the
advisable thing for you to currently be doing. That's because you
certainly won't be able to come September when what actually happens on the
field will finally count, and all these gibberish comments (and *snickers*) will
no longer mean anything.
To Naval Vet:It doesn't matter one iota if you play in the best
conference in the world (which the U doesn't) if you still consistently
finish at or near the bottom basement of that conference (which the U does). Yes, SOS matters. But the Sagarin ratings are almost universally accepted as
mattering more, since they take more criteria into consideration, including SOS.
As was pointed out to you a bit earlier, BYU's Sagarin rating was much
better than the U's (26 to 61). It's pretty amazing what the Y coaches
are able to do with those 2-star recruits, especially compared to the U's
best-in-the-world caliber recruits.Just live with it and stop coming back
with your weak replies. Or better yet, tell us yet again what great victories
you finally obtained over the Y these past few years. You and other fellow U
fans must totally reverence the Y, considering how much they seem to mean to
you. Someday you should try looking at the big picture and quit focusing on only
one Saturday a season.
Naval VetFor team that has lost more games regardless of SOS, see
mirror.Ever wonder how BYU finished 2011 AND 2012 ranked higher in
the polls than U?It's because BYU performed BETTER against
BYU's schedule, than Utah performed against Utah's schedule.As much as you want to live in denial and whine about SOS, Utah's steady
decline since 2008 hasn't been solely the result of increased SOS. U
didn't going bowling last season because U LOST to the only WAC team U
#25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) (#90)unranked/#39 Utah(8-5) (#49)2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) (#63) bowl winnerunranked/#61 Utah(5-7)
(#41) bowl no showJust like the 80's, BYU has once again become
Utah's bowl game.*snicker*
Whatsnu:Ever wonder why you lost 2 more games in 2012 than you did
in 2011? Because your SOS went up. It was still WAC-ish, but the fact remains,
the stronger the SOS, the fewer the Ws. Your SOS during your final season in
the MWC was also tougher than your 2011 season's. And naturally, you lost
more games.SOS matters. You'll find out soon enough. Especially with all those 2-star recruits that'll be taking the
field this year too. [*snicker*]
Love all the comments from the Ute fans who are trying to suggest that Erickson
is a good hire for them. Erickson has had only one winning season (2007 his
first year at ASU, without any of his players or recruits and using carryover
assistants) in the past 10 years. And before you slam me for saying that ASU is
a terrible football program, how did the Utes fair against them this past
season? Best of luck to you Ute fans with that coach.
Naval VetStop making excuses and whining about SOS.BYU
played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012; U only played TWO.BYU finished the
season ranked #26 by Sagarin.Utah was ranked #61.Your SOS is
meaningless, especially when you LOST to only the WAC team you played!Poor pacywacer!
Whatsnu:The WAC may be gone, but all the wins you guys have been
trying to justify your program's 10- and 8-win seasons were WAC-ish. You
haven't played a non-WAC schedule since leaving the MWC, so
"Indy-WAC" seems pretty apropos to me.As for going
"winless versus the WAC" these past two seasons...we've only lost
to ONE team in the WAC. And that was the 16th-ranked Utah State program, and in
O/T. Conversely, we did beat 2 WAC teams: the 2011 Indy-WACers, and the 2012
"Poor Indy-WACer."It's time to come up with a new
childish insult - the WAC is no longer in the football business, so using the
above is not only childish, it's also clueless.Besides, which
team has gone winless versus the WAC in the last two years?
uteBusters:And for what it's worth, Utah hadn't beaten a
"single" PAC team with a winning record since 2007. We'd beaten
2: 9-4/18th-ranked Oregon St. (2008), and 8-5 California (2009). Double fail
on your part.Best you finally come to terms with the fact that
you'll be mid-majors forever.
TheSportsAuthority:"Who cares about first, second and third
choice spin? In the end, BYU ended up with the better coach...Care to explain
why you completely biffed on the opportunity to compare Holliday's success
in that area versus A-Rod's lack thereof?"I don't know
who ended up with the better coach. At least not between ARod and Holliday
anyway. I'd never heard of Holliday before, and the article didn't
really say much about him either. Where did he play his college ball? Which
teams had he coached at? How long was his tenure there? All that is known is
that he'd been coaching longer than Roderick.As for OTHER
"better coach", Erickson > Anae.uteBusters:"So you're telling us Utah was out-recruiting PAC schools clear back
in 2007, yet the hapless still haven't been able to beat a single PAC team
with a winning record?"No, that's not what I said. I
merely refuted carver's notion that we'll be outrecruited by every
Pac-12 team heretofore. I proved carver wrong, so you're now trying to
change the argument. How frantic and emotional of you. Poor Indy-WACer.
To Chris B:Really, you are not. A better team would not base
it's entire season on beating just one in-state rival. A better team
would not settle for being in the basement of their conference, no matter how
great that conference is.A better team would at least need to be good
enough to become bowl eligible. Utah might have the motivation to lately
play over their heads for one weekend a season against their nemesis. But that
certainly doesn't make them a better team overall.
Naval VetSo you're telling us Utah was out-recruiting PAC
schools clear back in 2007, yet the hapless still haven't been able to beat
a single PAC team with a winning record?7-11 in the PAC, conference
cellar dwellers, and steady decline since 2008 with all of those PAC-caliber
Naval VetWho cares about first, second and third choice spin? In the
end, BYU ended up with the better coach.It is funny that it bugs you
so much.Despite your frantic and emotional spin, however, it's
obvious that you're ignoring your own "gold standard" for coaching
success -- how many players a coach has sent on to the NFL. For a position
coach, it's even more relevant to compare players for that particular
position, in this case, WR.Care to explain why you completely biffed
on the opportunity to compare Holliday's success in that area versus
A-Rod's lack thereof?Spin away!
carver:"...[Utah] will never again out recruit any school in the
Pac 12."What a frantic and emotional thing to say. Do you know
when was the last time we were outrecruited by every school in the Pac-10/12?Answer: 2007.That means the Utes out-recruited several
Pac-10/12 teams while not only still members of the MWC, but also prior to the
Utes being envisioned even as a passing notion for membership. Fail.Seems to me a certain little someone is having a difficult time reconciling
the fact that they've been outrecruited by their big brother in each of the
past 6 seasons, and with no realistic hope in sight at closing that ever
widening gap. Poor Indy-WACer.
I'm excited for the Holliday hire. He seems like someone with great
credentials who may be able to bring out the best in Apo and the other
receivers. This may actually cause Hoffman's numbers to decrease, but
hopefully his skill level will continue to increase and he will get drafted. I
am cautiously optimistic about this team.
Naval Vet:But it will never matter what coaches Utah has because
they will never again out recruit any school in the Pac 12. If your going to
play in the Pac 12, Utah and Colorado is goinmg to be your last choice.
BleedCougarBlue,There is "rumor" that Anae was given full control
of the offense; including coaches. Anae wanted to bring in his people; which
would explain his attempt at hiring Roderick(who he coached at Ricks and would
have been a great hire) I don't know if it really had anything to do with
Cahoon, other than he may have been a bit of a scapegoat here. As for Dupaix,
same thing along with the fact that Dupaix is a running backs coach with most of
his experience in the option game; ie. Navy. Both very good coaches and super
individuals, but they found themselves in no-mans land with the hiring of Anae
who appears to be intent on developing the passing game which has given way to
more of an option attack over the past few years. The best hire was Tujague.
Weber was horrible. After learning more about Holliday, I believe BYU got the
better coach, but Roderick was definitely the first choice.
My Cougar friends, I want you to have the absolute best coaches you think you
have. Really, I do. I want you to believe that your team is NC caliber. Really,
I do. That way, when we beat you (again), you'll have absolutely no excuses
for losing. Other than the fact that you played a better team. Really, we are.
I stil want to know why Ben Cahoon was fired.Bueller? Bueller?
Anyone?.....You don't become the CFL's leading receiver by
being a slouch at your job. No, not even in the CFL.If someone
could shed some ACCURATE information here (read that as, "no rumors from
trash-talking Utah fans) I'd appreciate it.
Solomon Levi:"Howard S...Holliday was BYU's second
choice... Aaron Roderick was first choice...LOL at the spin."Spin? So you're saying Roderick was NOT Mendenmidmajor's first
choice? Do Howard or I need to refer you to the article where the Y first
sought out Utah's WR's coach BEFORE defaulting to Holliday?Howard wasn't spinning anything. It happened just like he said it did.
"LOL" at YOUR spin.
One thing for sure -- We have no lack of Media coaches and analysts who know how
every coach will work out long before any games are played --- And why every
decision is wrong or right before the season starts --- We need more colleges
and universities to be able to use this pool of such stalwart all knowing
I love how a couple of comments on a BYU article really seem to get those ute
fans all defensive about things. Now that's laughable!
Howard S."Holliday was BYU's second choice... Aaron
Roderick was first choice."LOL at the spin. The
truth is, you're scared to death that BYU ended up with a much more
experienced and well-rounded coach.It's hard to tell who was
Utah's first choice.A-Rod co-OC, demoted to PC and replaced by
Chow who was replaced by BJ who was demoted to co-OC understudy and replaced by
DE who in theory will be in charge of the offense for one year, at least when
Whit isn't micro-managing DE like he tried to do with Chow.
Howard,Bubble? No. The bubble would be the cover-up that Hill is in the
middle of in relation to what is going on with the swim team.As for
Anae, this is one of many Cougar fans who did not criticize Anae. If I remember
right, it was Bronco who stepped up and claimed responsibility on that drive.
Anae has done nothing but good for BYU as evidenced by the obvious interest in
him as an assistant by Whitt. What he was offered, or whetther he was offered is
neither here nor there; the fact remains that there was interest."Laughable" would be Utah's record in basketball against BYU the
last 10 years.
@sls"The situation on the hill is laughable."********Laughable? Actually that "laughable" situation is
3-0 against BYU in the last three years.What does that say about the
situation in the bubble?
@panamadesnewspanamadesnewsHow was the 2010 block
Anae's fault?Actually Barney never said the block was
Anae's fault. But if you had been paying attention Cougar fans roundly
criticized Anae for conservative play calling in the final drive that set up the
field goal attempt.Also to be precise BYU's Devin Mahina was
left trying to block Utah's Taplin-Ross and Bradley. He chose Taplin-Ross
on the inside leaving Bradley virtually untouched for the block on the outside.
We get the coaches they want. We get all the recruits. We pretty much dominate.
Anae was way better than Erickson.
Not sure what Ben Cahoon did wrong or what Joey Dupaix did wrong for that
To Barney Google: Did you watch the film of the play where Burton blocked the
field goal? I did, and BYU's defender looked right at Burton, then
hesitated and went the other way. Appparantly he did not think Burton could get
there in time to block the ball, or attempted to shore up the BYU line of
scrimmage. Either way, it looked to me like he could have made the block on
Burton, but for some reason did not. How is this Anae's fault?
Roderick has been demoted twice at Utah--Johnson once. The situation on the hill
is laughable.As to Holliday, if BYU wants to recruit seriously in
Texas, they must get an invite to the Big 12. However, beating UT would help a
lot, both to recruit and to get an invite to join the Big 12. If Holliday can
help turn in a 2-0 season to start the year, I'll be behind him and all the
other coaches 100%. Nobody in Texas will care about beating Utah or anyone else
on the schedule, if the Longhorns come out of Provo with a win.
AltaHawkFan says:"Dennis Erikson was utah's second choice.
Robert Anae was first choice."********************Cute response... not accurate but cute.I guess I must have missed
the news reports where Anae was offered and accepted and then rejected Whits
offer.The truth is that Whit made one offer and got one
acceptance.Really... If it weren't for made up facts Cougar
Nation would have no facts at all.
Naval Vet,You all are too much! Hilarious. Yea, Anae would have come
in 4th as an OC candidate at that great, elite institution in SLC! Hilarious.
How come you, Chris B and the like live on these BYU boards and I have never
even been to a Ute board let alone comment on one?
I love this guy's intensity and toughness and how he seems to be instilling
that in our WR's this year. I really think he's going to make a
difference with guys like Apo, etc. Can't wait for the opener against
UV!!! The main question mark with this team is how will the OL do? That is the
big key at this point. That, and will Justin Sorenson improve at kicking. BYU
already looks great everywhere else.
@AltaHawkFanWho knows, you may be right. Good comeback nonetheless.
@AltaHawkFan stick to your High School sports. College conversation is out of
your league.There is a oxymoron down south. Y fans wanted
Anae's head on a plater in 2010; After the "Burton's still
unblocked" game, Bronco gives Anae his walking papers.Here's where the oxymoron comes in; They hired Anae back in 2013.This seasons T-shirt slogan; "Recycle!"
AltaHawkFan:Nowhere had it ever been reported that Anae was offered
the O.C. position at Utah. All that had been said was that Whittingham asked
him to interview. The more likely scenerio was that Whittingham was
interviewing multiple candidates for the position, and Anae was just one of the
O.C.s on his list. I'd find it highly implausible that Whittingham would
have preferred a guy run out of Provostan 2 yrs ago over a 2-time Nat'l
Champion/3-time Pac-10 Coach of the Year. I wouldn't doubt that Erickson
was Utah's 1st choice. I have no idea what order Anae would have come in.
2nd? 3rd? 4th? Oh well. What does it matter? We got Erickson anyway, so we
never had to find out.
There is no evidence that Detmer would be a good choice. He would be as big a
gamble as Doman was. I'm excited about the new offense we're reading
about now. Lets see what these offensive coaches can do before we start looking
for someone else. As for the Utah coach who changed his mind ... well I
don't see anything at Utah that I would be excited about.
Dennis Erikson was utah's second choice. Robert Anae was first choice.
Ty Detmer was a wish, not a choice.
Re: Roderick - When people come, and then go again very quickly -
don't worry at all about it. If they are not "all in",
rejoice that they are "all out". He's where he felt
comfortable apparently and BYU has someone who is willing to choose to be there.
Wishing them both success.
Holliday was BYU's second choice... Aaron Roderick was first choice.Jason Beck was second choice... Ty Detmer was first choice.