I have to wonder if people are too quick to judge. It sounds like this is a very
over-the-top demand, but there may in fact be other factors involved. That is
why I think Angela's response was so good, because it acknowledged that the
boyfriend might have other more specific issues with the potential
Run, run, RUN away from this man. This is only the beginning of a lifetime of
heartache if you stay with him. Even if he "allows" you to see your
father, he will always resent it and never fail to let you know about it. Right
now it's your father, next it will be a good friend, ANYONE he does not
deem "worthy" of your association. This is the classic sign of a
controlling, abusive person. If you go forward with this marriage, you will
have nothing but trouble, and your future children will live with a controlling
father and an unhappy mother and, unfortunately, they will likely repeat that
pattern themselves down the road.
While I agree with the majority of the commenters it is a red flag, perhaps like
I, do not know all of the facts, It nay be convient to say he is non LDS or
non-Christian, there may be a deper problem that the daughter just not know
about and the young man just doesn't want to be the first to tell her that
her father was convicted of child abuse,maybe the judge has said that he is not
allowed around children.If that condition had been expressed in the
article, would our collective advise been different?One person in our
community was "up-in-years" before she heard her Dad was in prison for
murder and not deceased as she had been told. I would admit that I
don't know what to say, but a visit with someone like her Bishop my be a
better 3rd party for advice than we are. For one, I don't feel I have the
whole story, it throws up a red flag yes, but I don't know the facts nor
have I talked to any of the people involved. Typed words are a poor way to
Wow. I'm postively impressed with how many people recognize the danger
signs of spousal abuse. This guy has control issues. Pick another one.
Ditto! Run as fast as you can in the other direction!He has control issues
and for those if us who have lived a few decades longer . . . this smells of
trouble - even divorce!
To the person asking the question of Angela:This is scary, to be
honest.Did he forget WHO RAISED YOU????? This means he would also
be one of those people who doesn't let their children play with the
neighbors because "they're not LDS." Do you want to be with
somebody like that?Your Father, who is not LDS, raised you!
Apparently he did something right! My non-LDS father raised me, and I went on a
mission, I have been married in the temple, I live a good life and married a
wonderful husband who would NEVER, EVER, request that of me!You have
got to step outside this situation and look at it from the outside in. I am
really troubled by this.
There's a better guy out there for you, one who loves the Lord and all His
children, including your father.Dump the ant-dad loser, the faster
the better. The level of control he wants isn't healthy and you'll be
so much happier if you find someone else.Angela is right.
That is a huge red flag. My whole family are non-members. I would never even
think of not letting them be a part of my family's lives. This sounds very
controlling, and I would not marry someone with this belief. The heartache to
your family would be almost unforgivable. Anyone who wants to control this
might suddenly want to control other things, too.
I agree with Californian#1. Run. If gospel principles were really
important to him he would recognize this as a missionary opportunity not a test
of his faith. And I have doubts about his convictions. Too much fear in this
young mans behavior can be seen between the lines.Find someone else.
First the kids, then you would be next. The guy sounds very narrow minded. Any
decent person would be thinking of ways that the father's future
grandchildren could influence "grandpa" to become more interested in the
Your non-Mormon dad is more of a Mormon than your church-going boyfriend. You have something of your dad in you. If he keeps you away from your
dad, he will, by default, try and keep his children away from you. And he will
despise the bit of your children that reminds him of your dad. His loveless and
misguided sense of virtue will destroy your family, alienate your children and
ruin your life.Run for the nearest exist. And thank the Lord you
saw it BEFORE you got married to him.
It wouldn't be fair to your dad to marry him. Even if you were to have a
great marriage in every other way with him, this wouldn't be fair to your
father who has given you so much..
We want our to live our lives to the fullest. I believe, life is lived to the
fullest degree, when we have ALL those, whom we love, around us! Perhaps give
things more time and consideration. (Remember, if he wants to limit your
future child(ren) interactions with your father, what of the rest of the world?)
As a friend of mine always told me when dating if words and actions don't
match get te heck out. My parents and siblings aren't members of the
church. My husband joined shortly before we were married and we were sealed a
year later. If he would have said you cant see your dad I would have told him to
get lost. Angela is right on the money. When your in love every thing seems
almost perfect but believe me if hes telling you that you cant see your fax he
isn't worth it. Sounds like he is a control freak. Run as fast as your legs
can carry you and never look back.
Although we're now divorced, I married a young woman whose parents were not
LDS (I am the son of LDS Converts). They were wonderful grandparents to our 2
children. She remains, 30 years later, one of the finest women I
have ever known and I was privileged to baptize her after about 10 years after
our marriage and she remains a stalwart. He's been deceased many years.
Someone, is missing both potential missionary experiences and
lacking in understanding re the principle of "unrighteous dominion".
Several of my former mother-in-law's siblings have since also joined the
church and remain active members.Consider deeply the long-term
prospects of marriage with someone attempting to control other people's
interaction with their own family; I've seen several turn into abusers.
dotGone: I appreciate the sentiment, but the reason to be nice to noonmembers
is not to make them better prospects for conversion. Perhaps this is not the
point you were trying to make, but most people do just fine in the religion of
their choice or no religion at all for that matter.
My dear Sister, you know that it isn't right, or else why would you need to
get someone elses advice on the issue. Are you really looking for sound advice,
or are you looking for someone to tell you that it's okay to go ahead with
plans for the futere with him. I don't know the entire story, but I have
four daughters, and I can tell you this that, no matter what you do now, or what
he says now, the position has been set and I am afraid if you move ahead with
this marriage, it will only end in years of misery for all parties involved, and
possibly a divorce for you years down the road. Do not try to change his mind,
Everyone seems to be in agreement, but Family Portrait loves this guy - in your
opinion, is there anyway things can work out and these two can live happily ever
Control issues such as this one are a very bad thing, and are not what is taught
in the doctrines of our Church. I agree with others here. Run away-fast. Suggest your fiance get some tolerance training before proposing to
anyone. Reading about what Jesus Christ would do may also prove helpful.
A person who works with his hands is a laborer. The person who works with his
hands and his head is a craftsman. The person who works with his hands and head
and heart is an artist. I thought that is the goal, to make it an art.
Good answers from almost everyone. My experience stands with those. Give
yourself as much distance and time as it takes to get over this guy because any
accommodations like this made now are just the beginning of a lifetime--or
marriage time, however long it would be--of all manner of agony.
oh...dear... Everyone is talking about possible abuse.the woman I
married never let a thing like this slip. then I found myself chosing between
her and the rest of the planet (esp family...who were all LDS). abusive? you
have no idea. we made it 10 years (i'm stubborn), with one daughter born to
us (there was one night we didn't have issues, I think). now I spend my
life force helping that girl get her feet on the ground and make a decent life.
this was my life...i have seen others, as well.do not disregard this
woman's advice...pull this thing apart....stay at your personal peril. the
abusers always look perfect, at first. say goodnight....
I dont think the member vs non-member argument has anything to do with it. This
bloke is eliminating his competition! Plain and simple. He is aware of the
bond and protectiveness of a father to his daughter and he wants your dad out of
the picture, wants you to doubt your dad's capacity to be a good patriarch
and wants to break you two up. If he can destroy your relationship with your
dad then he can control you - no prob! Then it will be your mother, then the
rest.Thank goodness he was dumb enough to tell you before the
wedding! Mine didn't tell me, he just went behind my back after the
wedding and cut me off. I wondered why my parents and siblings no longer wanted
anything to do with me. Duck hunter is right on the ball. It is definitely
abuse. Get out now. If something is too good to be true then it is
too good to be true and this bloke is untrue!
Good advice Angela, and the commenters here are showing great wisdom from life.
The one she asked about should take heed if he should read your column, and
amend ideas and thoughts about family. -All parents are precious - LDS or not.
Even abusive ones -although too physical and mental most times- have insights
that can be used -as long as they can be prevented from using the physical and
mental abuse that they most often display.
I certainly hope whomever wrote in takes the time to read these- It would throw
huge red flags. As duckhunter854 pointed out- "Demanding
estrangement/isolation from family and/or friends is the first step towards
spousal abuse."Not to mention, how boring would life be if the
fiance would never want to know people who had different life experiences? Now, if there is another reason (such as a past experience, a habit,
etc) that causes concern- make sure you talk it through with a counsilor to MAKE
SURE you are on equal terms as to how life will be.
Sorry, sister. Everything is not even near "almost perfect." How can anyone in such a family-centered church even think of cutting off his
children from their own grandfather or other close kin? Absent any concerns not
mentioned in your letter, he should be glad his kids will have loving
grandparents. Nobody else in my family is LDS. I never knew three
grandparents, rarely saw the fourth who lived an ocean away. None of them were
Christian. I wish I'd known them, and eventually I will. We say
"Families can be forever," but we need to act like we really mean it. We
also need to act like we mean it when we answer the temple recommend question
about our behavior toward family members. Cutting your kids off from their
grandparents, IMO, is on the edge.BF has made himself clear. Even if
he does consent to let your kids and your dad see each other, he will do it
grudgingly. The children will recognize the tension, your relationship with your
own family will be tainted, and no one will be comfortable with the situation. I
say you should find someone who really believes in family unity.
Run far and fast. This guy sounds like a controller. Unrighteous dominion.
Honor your Father and Mother which is the first commandment with a promise.
Ephesians 6:2,3. God distinguishes father and mother from all other persons on
earth, chooses them and sets them next to Himself, occupying the highest place
in our lives next to God.There are Biblical principles involved for
Christians. I Corinthians 7:12-16, Paul argues to convince believers that they
must not divorce their unbelieving partners, [parents]if their spouses wish to
continue being with them. he adds that the believer(Christian) must not
divorce the unbeliever who consents to be with him."if
possible," the To be "sanctified" by the believer (v.14) means that
the unbelieving partner(parent) is "set aside" to a "unique"
position where he/she is exposed regularly to the gospel(John 3:16) and the Holy
Spirit's influences. It does not mean saved.Years ago when I
became a Christian and left the Church my children eventually did as well. My
wife is still a Mormon(inactive).
Well, said duckhunter!! yes, isolation is a bad sign... so no one she loves
will see bruises.... his attitude is the tip of the iceberg.. maybe not... but
It sounds as though the guy's own faith is so insecure that he must
insulate himself, and his children-to-be, from anyone who doesn't share
that faith.Sad, because true faith is being exposed to all different
points of view and then deciding for yourself.I think his fiancee
should ask him, "What's *your* problem with my dad not being Mormon?
Because it's not his problem--it's yours."
Pschh, just because the guy's not LDS? That's just WRONG! That
overzealous boyfriend is looking beyond the mark and needs a major attitude
Dear Family Portrait, please, oh, please, oh, please, listen to Angela. As wonderful as this young man may be, if his only reason for wanting to
keep your children from your father is that your father is not LDS, then this is
not only a deal breaker, but it may be a red flag for abuse. One of
the things certain kind of abusers do is to try to cut their victims off from
their families, and while the question only involves your father now, by
association, it has to include your mother (unless you make special arrangements
to visit her away from her home) and other family members. Will he
want you to stay away from all gatherings of your side of the family? Probably,
since your father will be there.Please remember that there is no One
Right One for you. Heavenly Father will help you to find a wonderful young man
who will love your family as much as you will love his family, a young man who
will be grateful that you have a great father and a great relationship with
him.Trust the Lord and listen to Angela. You'll be glad you
Run and don't look back. Demanding estrangement/isolation from family
and/or friends is the first step towards spousal abuse. I've seen it too
many times. There's a guy out there who will honor you and your parents.
She had to ask the question? I would expect a person to know intuitively and
convincingly that this kind of bigotry is wrong. I'm concerned about how
this guy's parents raised HIM if he thinks this sort of attitude is okay.
Glad I left.I need to figure out a way to stop seeing these headlines from
lds news in my inbox. Infuriating.
Oh my... thank you Angela! I can't imagine anyone who would do that just
because someone isn't a member of the Church. Imagine his reaction if
someone wanted to limit interaction with him because he IS a member. That would
be the end of my feelings for him.
That is ridiciliious to limit contact with nonlds father simply for religious
beleif. Defintly never join the church in that situation. There are many good
qualities about him. I read on wikipedia some religions shun excommunicants and
dissenters. That does not happen in LDS church. He gave fiances family freedom
to raise kids ini church. Reminds me of story in Stephen Robinsons
book parents would not attend wedding or welcome kids in home if they
didn't get married in temple and daughter got pregnant so couldn't
attend temple and were keeping word. HIs response don't condemn but help
people not presently living Celestial Law do what they can to eventually live
Good advice! Life with someone who rules out non-members would be tough. How
will your children serve effective missions if non-members have been treated as
pariahs all their lives!! Furthermore, I know someone will say this so I will
just mention it immediately: Some LDS "fathers" give fatherhood a bad
name... Its character and the person, not the religion.... of course,
I've lived in the "mission field" all my life... if we were snotty
to non-members, we'd be very lonely - and they'd never hear the
gospel.I think she should dump that dude, without telling her father why -
don't give him another reason to distance from the gospel!!!
Dead on, Angela. Awesome job!
Good answer Angela. Right on the money.