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Comic books becoming a battleground for gay rights

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  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    March 11, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    Nobody is attacking Mr. Card for his personal; beliefs. People are reacting aginst his polticial movilization against LGBT people.

    "In 2008, Card wrote that "[t]here is no branch of government with the authority to redefine marriage," and indicated that a revolution would be appropriate if gay marriage became law. He said:

    Because when government is the enemy of marriage, then the people who are actually creating successful marriages have no choice but to change governments, by whatever means is made possible or necessary. . . .

    How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.[32]" Wikipedia

    Hehas the right to express and fight for his beliefs. Those who oppose him have te right to do the same. That is called freedom.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    March 11, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    OSC has written gay characters in a positive light. Ironically he has taken a lot of criticism from LDS readers because he portrays an assortment of characters outside LDS mainstream in positive ways.

    This isn't about judging the art, but the artist.

    It is a knee-jerk reaction attacking a man at his work based on his affiliations outside his work. This reminds me of the McCarthy era where people in entertainment were branded communists, social deviants and... "homosexuals" (which in its day would blacklist them), only now it's the opposite side of the coin attacking those with contrary viewpoints and attempting to have them blacklisted for it.

    Kinda crazy that our tolerance has brought about such intolerance. It's almost as if the homosexual activists have no desire for equality, only domination and special rights.

    I guess those bad things that happened in the past were only bad because they happened to the wrong crowd.

  • coltakashi Richland, WA
    March 11, 2013 6:46 a.m.

    I have read every piece of fiction that Orson Scott Card has published since his first, award winning story, Ender's Game, appeared in Analog Science Fiction back in 1976. In 35 years of fiction writing, he has included homosexual characters and portrayed them in a positive light,including the protagonist of his novel Songbird, a major character in his serirs The Memory of Earth, and characters in his Enders Game series of novels. There is no reason to believe that his story set in the Superman universe would be any different. Card does not use his fiction to advance his pinions about same sex marriage. He expresses himself on that isse through blogs and other opinion writing, like anyone else. And he has not asked readers of his fiction to support his views on the meaning of marriage.

    This whole controversy demobstrates that "gay marriage" is very little about freedom of association, since no one is stopping gays from sharing their lives with each other. Rather,it is about creating legal means to censor anyone who does not publicly endorse homosrxual behavior as good and praiseworthy.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    March 10, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    @ amazondoc: It was making several points. One was that homosexuals are just as likely to be bullies as non-homosexuals, and therefore do not necessarily need or deserve special protections. The current propaganda against bullying in our society is more often than not intended to use pathos as an argument in favor of same-gender marriage.

    Another point is that when people are bullied by homosexuals it is hypocritical to turn the other way and pretend that only homosexuals are bullied and therefore only homosexuals need special protections. Schools, especially in California, allow terrible things to be said to and about people that oppose same-gender marriage, but will expel anyone that even uses a perceived slur (like "that's so gay"). It appears to be a current strategy for homosexuals to bully people out of their jobs if those people support traditional opposite-gender marriage. I don't believe they should be given a pass on that.

    A new point that I would like to make is that in no way is the lobbying for same-gender marriage comparable to the fight for equal rights for women and non-whites, except that homosexuals have co-opted tactics.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    March 10, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    @J-TX;

    It must be scary being you, living in your frightening little world.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    March 10, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    OHBU said,
    "No one is blasting him for believing same-sex marriage is wrong. They're blasting him for advocating for laws to support his theologically based agenda."

    Since when did it become illegal, immoral or unpatriotic to advocate for laws that support one's personal point of view?

    RanchHand said,
    "If you'd just stop treating us like lepers and let us live our lives as WE see fit without you're (sic) passing laws to prevent us from having the same legal benefits you possess, we'd be much more than happy to leave you to your bigoted attitudes."

    No, you wouldn't. You would then move on to the next point on your agenda that you want to force down the majority's throat.

  • milojthatch Sandy, UT
    March 10, 2013 4:31 a.m.

    Mark, I'm not arguing the point of DC Comics, I'm arguing the point of those 17,000 petition signers. I'm arguing the point of the thousands who sent death threats and demanded that various persons who supported Prop 8 in California be fired from their jobs. I'm arguing the point of all the wedding dress makers and photographers and cake decorators who were taken to court and lost everything because they refused their services to a gay couple despite the refusal coming because of religious beliefs.

    DC Comics has only put this on hold, possibly killed it, because the artist bailed. The issue here are all the "tolerant" people who because they don't agree with Mr. Card, and feel the need to persecute him and run him out of Dodge. A person should be able to enjoy their job without persecution for their beliefs. THAT is freedom. How come you are having such a hard time understanding that?

    Again, it's only discrimination if it's against your guy. That seems to be the message from the LGBTQ community.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    "If Mr. Card supported gay ideals and petitions went out from traditional marriage groups to have him removed and DC Comics did, tell me there would not be an uproar over that?"

    Uh, milo, the exact same principle would apply. For instance, if the D-News decided to fire someone because they, say, were against the LDS church, the D-News would have every right to do that. Of course when you get into journalism (not that I think the D-News is very interested in that anymore, sorry guys) or opinion, to have integrity you should allow a bit more uh, variety in your voice.

    Lets say an orginazation that is trying to make an argument for traditional marriage had someone writing freelance articles for them arguing for gay marriage, would I expect that orginazation to publish those articles or work with that writer? No, of course not.

    The argument stays the same no matter which way you look at it: a private orginazation has a right to determine for itself what it will publish. That is freedom. How come you guys are having such a hard time understanding that?

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    March 9, 2013 10:20 p.m.

    This is equivalent of Rush Limbaugh being an annalist for NFL broadcasts. They let him do it once and he made a complete fool of himself by bringing outmoded, outdated racial stereotypes into the conversation. If Card tries to advance his archaic agenda he will meet the same fate.

  • BYUCOLORADO Castle Rock, CO
    March 9, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    Very glad to hear that people are starting to boycott in earnest discriminatory viewpoints that don't have objective reasoning behind the discrimination.

    I think it is only a matter of time before schools start to boycott BYU in sports for the same reasons like they did with the issue of blacks in the 70s. That caused real change to occur. I love BYU sports, but I want equality more. I hope it happens.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    March 9, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    @Jeff -- "When I was younger, I was bullied by homosexuals who pressured me and even threatened me to have sex with them (I didn't). Every male I know who was molested was molested by a homosexual or bisexual man. "

    And women are bullied and pressured and threatened **and raped** by straight men every day, in astonishing numbers. Men are not saints, regardless of whether they are straight or gay.

  • milojthatch Sandy, UT
    March 9, 2013 8:08 p.m.

    A few gay rights supports here seem bent on the idea that there is no harm or foul here. DC Comics is a private organization and Mr. Card is a private citizen, so what's the big deal? I dare each and everyone of you saying this to tell me in all honesty that if this was reversed, you would not be crying "discrimination!"

    If Mr. Card supported gay ideals and petitions went out from traditional marriage groups to have him removed and DC Comics did, tell me there would not be an uproar over that?

    Face it, it's only discrimination if it's against someone who thinks like you.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 7:55 p.m.

    @DGDENTON
    "Division in the name of diversity is splitting our nation to smithereens. This is no time for fence sitting"

    So you think division is splitting this nation apart... and you want more division?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    @qapilot
    "Even those opposed to gay marriage 'rights' support the right of gay people to work, something the gay rights lobby would deny to Card. "

    If you're right about that then why has this state tabled the bills to ban firing someone over sexual orientation each of the last... however many years Equality Utah has been at it? Last year the Republicans in the state legislature threatened to go after SLC's non-discrimination if the Democrats and Equality Utah didn't pull back on their push to make it statewide.

    @RBB
    "it is ok for those advocating for homosexuality to pass laws that force people to accept the behavior."

    Nobody is forcing you to marry someone of the same sex, nor forcing your church to marry same-sex couples.

    " it also has no business telling you who you should rent to or who you should employ. "

    Qapilot... RBB is one of those people who don't seem to be on the same page as you, thinking it's totally fine to fire people for being gay.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    March 9, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    When I was younger, I was bullied by homosexuals who pressured me and even threatened me to have sex with them (I didn't). Every male I know who was molested was molested by a homosexual or bisexual man. I have friends who were pressured by homosexuals to have sex with them (some did; one is dead from AIDS, another is HIV positive). I am friends with at least one person who lost his job because he supported Prop 8.

    At the same time, I am friends with many homosexuals who enjoy good paying jobs, have no restrictions on their sexual activities, and who are winning the battle for control of the meaning of words in our society (words like "gay," "intolerant," "hateful").

    I freely acknowledge that in a free society some may lose jobs to the shifting center.

    At the same time, they don't have to go down quietly. And I am grateful to people like Card who are willing to stand up for what they believe to be right (and I confess I feel better when I agree with them, as I do now).

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    Gpagentry, what does that mean, you don't know anyone that is a "true racist"? You know people that pretend they are racist? I don't think Mormons are hateful as a "group", in fact I think for the most part their leaders preach to be loving. Of course that is sometimes hard to take serious when they are so willing to label people as sinners, such as their totally passive aggressive little saying, "hate the sin, not the sinner." Anyway, I think there are plenty of Mormons that are very hateful of that which they don't agree with (not all, obviously). I know this from living among them and also reading their comments here.

    I'm sorry Dons, I believe it is you that do not understand freedom. You have every right to say what you believe, in fact you are doing it here. But the DNews also has every right NOT to post your comment. No freedom lost. Others, also, may say what they think, and sign petitions, and boycott. No freedom lost. And if a company reacts to a boycott, they have every right too. Again, no freedom lost.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    March 9, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    Most of you calling gays intolerant and haters if you disagree with us should step back and evaluate the situation.

    1) Who is it that has been voting to suppress glbt equal treatment by the law?
    2) Who is it that repeatedly calls glbt individuals "perverts", "immoral", "twisted", etc.?

    If you'd just stop treating us like lepers and let us live our lives as WE see fit without you're passing laws to prevent us from having the same legal benefits you possess, we'd be much more than happy to leave you to your bigoted attitudes.

    Card uses his influence to deny equality to American Citizens he disagrees with; we have every right to fight back.

    Homosexuality AND heterosexuality, JUST LIKE RACE are inherent traits. The comparison to race is apt and appropriate. The comparison of the glbt movement for equality is comparable to the black movement for civil rights not all that long ago. You may be the majority, but we ARE Americans and we deserve equal treatment by the government and the law.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    March 9, 2013 5:00 p.m.

    @dons --

    "Gay rights advocates seem quite willing to attack in any way possible people who do not share their beliefs."

    This seems rather like the pot calling the kettle black. The anti-gay crowd does plenty of attacking of their own. The difference is that the pro-gay crowd is fighting for equal treatment under the law, while the anti-gay crowd is fighting to deny gays their rights (whether it's rights to housing, marriage, service in the military, jobs, whatever). Understandably, gay people are tired of being treated as second class citizens.

    "They demand freedom for themselves but do not mind taking away from people they despise."

    Freedom goes both ways, here. People being attacked have just as much right to speak out as those doing the attacking -- and that includes the freedom to vote with their wallets by boycotting.

    And remember -- OSC has done much more than just call homosexuals bad names (which he has) and much more than say false things about homosexuals (which he also has). Card actually **advocated the overthrow of the federal government** just because of the gay marriage issue. That's a bit over the top, don't you think?

  • Pasmith St Petersburg, FL
    March 9, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    Sexuality is not a race or an ethnicity. Don't use that as part of your argument, please.

  • dons WVC, UT
    March 9, 2013 4:12 p.m.

    Gay rights advocates seem quite willing to attack in any way possible people who do not share their beliefs. They will punish others for exercising their freedom of belief by trying to rob them of their livelihood. Do they not see the irony of this? They call it "hate speech" if someone expresses a belief with which they do not agree. How is it not "hate" when they vilify people who do not agree with them? Where is the "tolerance" they demand of others? They demand freedom for themselves but do not mind taking away from people they despise. They do not truly understand the nature of freedom or of free speech--not so long as they reserve it only for themselves.

  • Gpagentry Orem, UT
    March 9, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    I have only respect for Orson Scott Card and am proud to call him my brother. Things are what they are in this telestial world. Anything can be used to discredit someone simply by an accusation. Many people, even here in Utah, think that we Mormons are a hateful group. I personally don't know anyone who is a true racist or homophobe. God bless Orson Scott Card.

  • DGDENTON Gainesville, TX
    March 9, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    Division in the name of diversity is splitting our nation to smithereens. This is no time for fence sitting or shrinking back from gospel principles so as not to offend others. We've been told to prepare for the last days. It is obvious we are in the Last Days.

  • curbee North Las Vegas, NV
    March 9, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    the lack of tolerance in the gay and lesbian activist groups is astonishing. whilst calling out what they perceive as hate, they are examples of the very thing they pretend to abhor.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    "But at the same time I don't think this man should lose his job because of his beliefs. "

    Rynn, he is not losing his job because of his believes. First of all, he was freelancing, he did not work for DC. they choose not to publish his story. I don't know if you know anything about the publishing industry, but nobody is forced to publish a story. Publishing houses can, and do, cancel projects, for any reason.

    But that is really not even what happened here, from what I can gather, DC was planning on publishing Card's story, even after the controversy and petitions began (after all, there is no such thing as bad publicity, right?), but the artist working on the story decided to bail. And apparently he was under no contractual obligation to finish his art work. (You don't believe that the artist should be forced to provide art work do you?) So when the artist bailed, DC decided to go on with the anthology the story was supposed to be in without it.

    Also DC is keeping the option open that they might find another artist.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    justamacguy,

    "majority rule" is a vast, vast oversimplification. In fact, your logic is just plain wrong. While laws are enacted by representatives chosen by the majority of their constituents, our governing document/law, the Constitution, guarantees protection of individual rights.

    Many of the early settlers of America (like those on the Mayflower) were persecuted 2 percenters in their country, who came here looking for relief. Of course, they then persecuted those who didn't agree with them. Seems like that pattern is continually repeated.

  • The Utah Republican Alpine, UT
    March 9, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    Remember when pretty much every boy in America read Superman, Batman, and Spiderman comics? Ever wonder why they don't anymore?

  • ender2155 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 9, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    OSC has had one good idea and has thrived off it for the past (almost) 30 years. He's a horrible comics writer, and I'm not sure why DC hired him in the first place. People are entitled to their own views, but people need to remember that this is the man who threatened to overthrow the government if they approved gay marriage, something I think anyone can agree is a bit extreme.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    March 9, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    @Brentbot -- you said: "In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived."

    Actually -- both ancient Rome and ancient Greece encouraged homosexual relations. Both societies survived for roughly 1000 years. That's a heckuva lot longer than *we* have been around.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    March 9, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    @ChrisB -- you said: "What 'hateful and dangerous rhetoric' has he spread? Seriously--I'd like to know."

    There isn't enough room within a 200 word post to document all the hateful/false/dangerous rhetoric that OSC has spread about gays.

    OSC was my favorite author for years. I love his talent. BUT I have also heard him speak in person, and I have read many of his opinion pieces. And yes, IMHO "hateful" and "dangerous" are pretty accurate descriptions of some of his writings.

    For heaven's sake, the man has even advocated overthrow of the government just because of gay marriage! He actually said -- and I'm quoting here -- that "marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down", and he means to do that "by whatever means is made possible or necessary. . . .".

    Notice he doesn't say "vote the bums out" or "impeach the crooks" -- this man is explicitly advocating insurrection against the duly elected federal government. Treason, revolution, call it what you will.

    Yes, that is just one small example of his "hateful" and "DANGEROUS" rhetoric.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    March 9, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    @ Henry Drummond - so it is bad if people opposed to homosexuality pass any law which has a negative impact on homosexuals, but it is ok for those advocating for homosexuality to pass laws that force people to accept the behavior. If the government has no business looking into your bedroom (which it does not), it also has no business telling you who you should rent to or who you should employ. You should not have the right to take away my freedoms to do what I want with my property because you want to do things I do not think are right.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    March 9, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Unfortunately, this is par for the course with people on the left. "If you disagree with my beliefs or my actions, you are a hate monger, and to prove my point I will spew hate to show that you are a hater." Those on the left only believe in free speech and free thought if you agree with them. Most people on the right are more willing to live and let live.

  • Allen Salt Lake valley, UT
    March 9, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    I think those who support OSC are wrong, and I think the GLBT folks are wrong, too. Both groups are wrong, because they both want government to regulate and make "right" their views. Many of the comments to this article want tolerance, but tolerance will never happen as long as government regulation of marriage exists. As long as government says one thing is right and anything else is wrong, people will use that as their excuse to be intolerant. Let's get rid of government interference in marriage, and then we can teach people to be tolerant of others.

  • Fred T PHOENIX, AZ
    March 9, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    So this is what the homosexuals (and liberals) mean by tolerance and diversity....

    What they mean, clearly shown, is that you MUST agree with them or you are a bigot. Only people onboard with their idololgy 100% are deemed tolerant and diverse. Perhaps they should open a dictionary.

  • Free Agency Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    As a gay male I can tell you that this is *not* a matter of gays, and friends of gays, seeking to silence. bully or discriminate against anyone who doesn't approve of us. We respect everyone's right to simply say, "My personal and/or religious beliefs are such that I don't think homosexuality is right."

    Card has gone much farther than that. He's continually used derogatory language toward gays, painting us with the usual brushstrokes of immoral, unhealthy and perverse.

    Our demand of people like Card is not that they stop voicing their disapproval of us. It's that they stop using inflammatory language toward us.

    For examples of what I mean, check out Card's entry on Wikipedia--and yes, there are references given for all his quotes.

  • peter Alpine, UT
    March 9, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    I don't oppose gay/lesbian/transgender people. I oppose their views/beliefs in non-Christian principles, which, sadly, too often go well beyond one's belief in marriage/relationships, as demonstrated by those spewing hatred toward Orson Card. I have a good friend who is transgender. We have many good discussions about every subject under the sun, without letting our differing points of view get in the way of our friendship.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    March 9, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    There's a troubling hypocrisy in accusing defenders of marriage as being haters and intolerant, particularly when the target is someone as tolerant and loving toward individuals of all flavors as is Mr. Card. The tactic of intentionally misrepresenting the views of those who defend traditional marriage says more about the attackers that it does those whom they target with their vitriol.

    The comparison between sexual attraction and race is old, tired, and incorrect. The biology of sexual relations does not differ by race, it differs by sex. Gender roles do not differ by race, they differ by sex. Procreation is not a function of race, it is a function of sex.

    The State cares about the well-being of children and the preservation of society. It doesn't care about whether two people love each other or are sexually attracted to each other. The legal burden is on gay folks who wish to enter into a contractual relationship with each other, because the State has no interest in gay unions.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    March 9, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    @samhill;

    His "only offense" isn't that he has a belief, it's that he's using his belief to try and force others who have different beliefs, to live by his beliefs. That is wrong.

    @Oatmeal;

    The simple fact of the matter is that we've finally started fighting back, and you don't like it.

    @TheWalker;

    Prove it. All you have is an opinion.

    @aceroinox;

    Working to restrict someone from the legal benefits you, yourself partake of is not "love and respect". Sorry, it just isn't.

    @RockOn;

    Are you talking about Mormons? It sure fits the facts.

    ----

    I used to read all of Card's books when they came out and I enjoyed them tremendously. I will never purchase or read another of his books though, nor attend the movies should they be made. I won't support his bigotry and discriminatory beliefs. That he has these beliefs isn't the problem, it's that he's trying to prevent law abiding Americans from partaking in the legal benefits he, himself enjoys. That is the very definition of hypocrisy.

  • justamacguy Manti, UT
    March 9, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    I getting about fed up with the 2% kooks running the country. This country was founded on majority rule. Maybe it's time to remember that. People need to learn to live with the popular attitude and get over it. I can guarantee if you if I could impose some of my "minority" beliefs on you, you wouldn't like it.

  • Big Bubba Herriman, UT
    March 9, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    Wow, if you take a stand against gay marriage you are automatically accused of spreading hateful and dangerous rhetoric. The gay lobby is basically saying you have NO religious rights and liberties when it comes to marriage. The only reason I oppose gay marriage is because my religion teaches that it is wrong. Thus it sounds like they are trying to limit my right to freedom of religious expression. This world is becoming a hostile place for traditional christians.

  • BCA Murrieta, CA
    March 9, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    For any who think that Card's anti-homosexual feelings are limited to the "pro-family" views of same-sex marriage, please read his infamous "The Hyprocrites of Homosexuality". This is the essay that but Card on the map as far as gays are concerned.

  • qapilot Orem, UT
    March 9, 2013 7:28 a.m.

    What is going on??? I thought this was America, where people were free to believe what they wished. Even those opposed to gay marriage 'rights' support the right of gay people to work, something the gay rights lobby would deny to Card.

    Social liberals and the gay rights lobby is so full of shameless hypocrisy it is stunning. They talk about diversity being necessary and important (and they're right about that), but when it comes to diversity in family and parenting, women and mothers are suddenly dispensable (or, in lesbian couples, men and fathers are irrelevant). Are gay couples not allowed to be together already, even without 'marriage'? They have that right and choice. Yet they are twisting society's arm to condone their relationships, which would purposefully deny children a mother AND a father. NOTHING is said about the very real needs children have for a mother AND father.

    PETA disapproves of meat eaters and leather users ... which includes most of us. That does not make them bigoted haters, and I see no one treating so. Why are those who oppose same-sex marriage treated so differently, being labelled as hateful bigots, just because they oppose something?

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 6:27 a.m.

    Perhaps OSC is concerned with the survival of our civilization. I don't see this as being hateful, but rather loving all mankind:

    Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called "expansive energy," which might best be summarized as society's will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.

    Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Chairman of Harvard University’s sociology department, Pitirim Sorokin. found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture’s acceptance of homosexuality.

  • Rynn Las Vegas, NV
    March 9, 2013 5:51 a.m.

    I don't think someone's political feelings should determine whether or not they can have a job (or own a company).
    I didn't stop going to JC Penney because they had Ellen Degeneres as a spokesperson, and I wouldn't stop visiting Chik Fil A because of the owner's beliefs.

    I feel that it is wrong to discriminate against homosexuals. Last time I checked, being homosexual was not illegal. But at the same time I don't think this man should lose his job because of his beliefs. Political and religious beliefs should have nothing to do with whether or not you get hired for a job (unless those beliefs would cause you to be an inadequate employee).

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2013 4:18 a.m.

    Good heavens, Filo, is that what we are talking about? Forcing people to fill out forms stating their personal believes and lie detector tests? Goodness. They sure did a number on Card, didn't they?

    And here I thought what had happened was that an artist had decided he wouldn't illustrate a story, because of the controversy that had arisin around the writer stating (voluntarily, and going out if his way to loudly make the point) homosexuality should be a crime (although he later recanted this) and that the government should be overthrown, by any means, if they ever dared to make gay marriage (gasp!) legal. I had no idea people were being forced to fill out forms detailing all their personal believes and given lie detector tests. The horror!

    It's rather amazing, I think, that so many people here, that say they believe in freedom, think that people should be forced to illustrate something they don't want to, or that a private company should be forced to publish material they choose not to.

    I think there are a whole lotta people that don't have a clue what freedom is.

  • Filo Doughboy Bakersfield, CA
    March 8, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    OK, junkgeek, let's just open the free market flood gates and mandate that every writer, producer, actor, musician, artist, etc., in the public domain list all of their personal beliefs, politics, practices & preferences. Transparency time.

    Then we can eschew the art of those with whom we disagree. We'd soon discover who the brave really are.

    While we're at it, why can't we have a litmus test for the spousal faithfulness of politicians and teachers? A barometer of honesty for bosses and employees? Lie detector tests for all clergy, counselors, doctors, lawyers, health personell. Video cams in every bar and motel.

    I know that would embolden other sexually-discriminated practices that are currently "in the closet": Those who are attracted to children, animals, aliens, could push their agenda. Hmmm, I feel a novel coming here.

    At some point God is going go spew humanity's filth out. In the meantime, keep publishing your craft, Mr. Card, and let the market vote.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    March 8, 2013 8:07 p.m.

    So none of you believe in a free market? That his personal slash-and-burn politics didn't make him a persona-non-grata? That bookstores didn't have to right to refuse his work?

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    March 8, 2013 7:45 p.m.

    @ PepperLayne
    You wrote:
    "Hey, all you champions of intellectual freedom! An author is being censored for his personal beliefs! This is right up your alley! Where are you guys?"

    Censored by whom? The state? an Organization?

    This is a grass root movement expressing its opinion. 15,000 spoke and 200 replied. That is not censorship, this is as stated before by Mukkake "free enterprise", customers expressing their opinion as in the Chick-filet. Some in favor some against.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    March 8, 2013 7:38 p.m.

    Freedom of Speech is all about allowing speech you hate. The bigot wheel has turned so those who feel oppressed are now the oppressors.

  • pumpkin Huntington, Utah
    March 8, 2013 7:15 p.m.

    Bravo, Orson Scott Card. Sad that the comic characters who were once depicted as decent people are being written as succumbing to gay porn. I am sorry about that. Keep your standards, man, don't be pressured to back down. The gays will always have their venue, don't let them take over our heros and make them into more gay porn.

  • BrotherofPaul Lugano/Switzerland, 00
    March 8, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    I have read dozens of Card's books and a great many of his short stories and essays. I can remember two gay characters in his works, one in Songmaster and one in Call of Earth. Both were complex, interesting characters who faced daunting problems. Both possessed heroic, admirable qualities. I recall that he drew biting criticism from real, actual closed-minded bigots who took exception when he portrayed gay people as complete, regular people. They blasted him for never condemning those characters.

    His writings invariably display an amazing compassion for humans of all kinds. He creates characters that are complex and real, with their personal unique blends of weakness and strength. His stories frequently show the negative consequences of bigotry and the valor of those who fight against it.

    Those who accuse Orson Scott Card of hating gays are tragically ill informed. They are attacking the wrong man.

  • Straitpath PROVO, UT
    March 8, 2013 4:10 p.m.

    I read Orson Scott Card's articles in the Nauvoo Times blog and I am extremely impressed by this man and his goodness.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    March 8, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    Card has a right to his beliefs, opinion, and actions concerning those beliefs and opinions. It IS a free country (still), and the right of freedom of speech is guaranteed. If I were to not like Card's opinion I could express that and could/would write him a letter expressing that, but to try to take down his employment because of that opinion would only be telling of my own hatred. People, actions speak louder than words.

  • COUGARNATE Lyman, WY
    March 8, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    I am standing and applauding you Mr. Card!!!!!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    March 8, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    I am in favor of Gay Marriage and treating the LGBT community with respect and equality. I have vigorously argued against those (including this paper) who say "Christian owned businesses" should be exempt from anti-discrimination laws that include protection for homosexuals because of their faith.

    That's why I will happily sign a petition saying Orson Scott Card should be reinstated and that his opinion, while contrary to my own, is protected under the constitution. The First Amendment isn't there to protect popular speech. Its ideas such Card's that need protecting. If he was qualified to work for DC Comics before his views on Gay Marriage came to light, he's certainly qualified to work their now.

    Where do I sign?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    @Oatmeal
    "And OSC doesn't hate gays. I believe that he thinks overt homosexual behavior is bad for society and that gay marriage is bad public policy. So why the knee-jerk "hater" label? "

    He wrote an article suggesting it was something worth overthrowing the government over. He clearly has a strong hatred of homosexuals hence why I will call him one.

  • aceroinox Farmington, UT
    March 8, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    What a hit job. Anyone who knows Scott Card personally, or has merely read his books, essays or his websites, would ever accuse him of hating gays. He has numerous gay friends who can attest that he treats everyone equally and with love and respect. Card's involvement is best described as a very thoughtful, impassioned and inspired defense of the institutions of the family and traditional man-woman marriage. I challenge any one to find a single hateful or disparaging comment toward LGBT individuals in any of his speeches, interviews or written works.

  • Bruce T. Forbes Kearns, UT
    March 8, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    I am not a fan of Mr. Card, but this stinks. I thought the entertainment world got rid of witch hunts at the end of the McCarthy era. I as saddened. This may just make me a fan of Mr. Card

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    March 8, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    I think it was tragic that the Romney campaign did not make this issue more front and center. It would have resulted in many who stayed away from the polls to have voted for him. But the experts were sure that jobs was the real issue. And why is this paper silent on today's job info?

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    March 8, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    atl134 wrote: "He wants homosexual relations to be illegal."

    So. I think smoking pot should be illegal, but it is because I think in the big picture it harms society and people. I don't hate people who smoke pot. And OSC doesn't hate gays. I believe that he thinks overt homosexual behavior is bad for society and that gay marriage is bad public policy. So why the knee-jerk "hater" label? Why can't so many in the GLBT movement actually engage in civil dialogue? You know, without attacking religion and recognizing and respecting that their are a variety of reasons to hold to a potition that differs from the GLBT position.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    March 8, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    Why does sexual orientation have to enter at all into comics?? Are other characters Hindu? Mormon? Japanese? Amputees? War Veterans? Why is our only way of expressing ACCEPTABLE diversity these days have to be as LGBT? I'm OK if we open it wide to embrace all kinds of diversity but it seems to run counter to the whole idea to have diversity constantly expressed as one form. And out of proportion with the actual population.

    Kind of reminds of the Diversity Conference I attended recently where everyone was of a different ethnic background or sexual orientation, but ALL had been raised and educated within a 50 mile radius of New York City. Diversity is not just skin deep, people.

  • TheWalker Saratoga Springs, UT
    March 8, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    Homosexuality is, always has been, and always will be, a sin of immense moral magnitude. The fact that there are powerful forces within our society that not only support it, but seek to silence and intimidate anyone who does not agree with this lifestyle is frightening.

    I am glad that Orson is on the board of NOM, and I support his courage for standing up for what is right.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    March 8, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    This is interesting, because Orson Scott Card is perhaps one of the most visible Mormon's who is also a Democrat. He is quite liberal on a lot of his stances, but apparently not on gay marriage. It just goes to show you that you can associate with one side or the other without completely adopting all of their stances on issues. I wish more people around here could understand that. It looks like Card was and will continue to be someone I look up to.

  • PepperLayne Salt Lake City, 00
    March 8, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Hey, all you champions of intellectual freedom! An author is being censored for his personal beliefs! This is right up your alley! Where are you guys?

    Orson Scott Card is one of my absolute favorite authors. He's a consummate professional and a fantastic storyteller. He's not going to make Superman some crusader for traditional marriage, so I don't see what the big deal is. Fans and the industry only hurt themselves when they censor an author for his personal beliefs. Let any individual hold their own opinions - as long as those opinions don't negatively impact the quality of the work they do, they are entitled to as many fans as the free market grants them. Judge the art, not the artist. (What is it that leftists tell conservatives all the time? If you don't like it, don't read it!)

    If DC Comics doesn't want Card, that's their problem. Card's success isn't dependent on how many people embrace his faith and values anyway (did you hear about the Ender's Game movie that comes out this year? Sounds like the man has more than a few fans).

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    "Would someone from the LGBT community please explain to me, civilly, why it is that if you don't support the gay agenda, you are considered 'hateful'?"

    He wants homosexual relations to be illegal.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    The GLBT movement intends to control the media, and they are close to doing that now. It is interesting that only 3% of the population is gay, yet TV shows are full of gay storylines, most sympathetic with the GLBT cause. They want to control the publication and production of educational materials. They are striving to rewrite history, emphasizing gay culture and history above more vital themes within the curricula.

    No one can argue against their stance, or they will be labeled a "hater." No business can fail to support their agenda or they will face boycotts and very critical press. Individuals who espouse a traditional view will have their employment threatened.

    Generations to come may look back and recognize that the GLBT movement as the end of free speech and freedom of consicience in America. But probably not. History will be revised to portray homosexuals as the saviors of humankind.

  • Go Utes! Springville, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    People are working to hard at trying to find things to be offended over. This is life y'all; toes will get stepped on, things will be said that we dislike or do not agree with, are we going to call out our layers every time somebody makes us cry? if the LGBT is so opposed to OSC writing the comics then they should encourage their members to not buy them.

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    samhill:
    [I, for one, believe in freedom of thought and speech and hope that Orson will be defended from these attacks and prevail]

    Don't worry, Card still has his freedom of speech. DC is a private company, and it was actually the artist who pulled out, as it is his right to do so.

    Linus:
    [A good man is being deprived of his economic liberty in retribution for his deeply held religious beliefs.]

    Nope, he isn't. DC is a private company and the artist is a private citizen, neither are responsible for providing Card with a livelihood or platform for his ideas.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Morality increases one's creativity; playing just one piano key all day long (as opposed to 88), decreases one's imagination.

  • E & EE Ann arbor, MI
    March 8, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    The market has not spoken. A small group of people have spoken (yes 15000 is small). The market won't have spoken until the actual comic comes out and people decide whether to buy it or not. This is like looking at a PETA petition against eating meat and saying that the market has spoken against eating meat.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:30 a.m.

    Liberal bullying you say?

    When some (not all) conservative groups call for support of Chik-fil-A for their religious corporate social policies, and boycotting of JCPenney for having Ellen DeGeneres as their spokesperson, it is not only OK, it is considered "the Gospel in Action"!

    But when supporters of marriage equality (some conservative) petition a comic book publisher, you decry it as "bullying" and "depriving a good man of his economic liberty"?

    I cannot find the words to describe this complete absurdity...

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    I thought conservatives believed in the free market. This is a great example of the free market deciding that they don't want an anti gay person writing their comic books. The market has spoken, and it rejected Orson Scott Card. Besides the fact that the market is going against what you believe, what is the problem?

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    This sounds like discrimination to me. A good man is being deprived of his economic liberty in retribution for his deeply held religious beliefs. The haters and bigots have been turned loose upon Christendom.

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    March 8, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    Who still reads comics? I wouldn't even know where to buy a comic book if I wanted to. The only reason DC and Marvel are introducing gay characters in their comics is to help sagging interest and revenue and frankly I don't think it has helped. The only way we even know about "super-heroes" anymore is through movies. Big deal about nothing.

  • Firefly123 Mapleton, UT
    March 8, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    I'm on several comic book and animation sites, and can tell you all, things are changing. Plans are on for a full-court-press of dynamic GLBT superheroes coming out as the best and strongest, to serve as role-models for the "persecuted" GLBT children of the world. It's OUR FAULT, people. Had we taught our children that everyone is different and God loves us all, that we NEVER bully anyone for his or her or its feelings, this would never have happened. Or would it? I'm sick of having GLBT rights shoved down my throat, but know part of the fault is mine because I didn't make sure my family and Church understood TOLERANCE. Persecution never was tolerance.

  • Danish American Payson, UT
    March 8, 2013 10:25 a.m.

    Another example liberal bullying. Don't like a divergent view point--bully them.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    March 8, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    "someone who's only offense is to have a belief in maintaining the traditional, centuries-old structure of marriage as being that of joining people of opposite sexes."

    This is a pretty thin argument. Being centuries-old doesn't make it right. The exact same statement could have been, and was made about interracial marriage by changing the last two words to "same race." No one is blasting him for believing same-sex marriage is wrong. They're blasting him for advocating for laws to support his theologically based agenda. Believe whatever you want, that's fine. I don't care if you believe coffee is evil. But if you pass laws to outlaw the sale of coffee, then you've crossed a line.

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    There is a serious issue with having Card write for such a well known franchise. Will he represent GLBT characters in his stories, or deny that they exist? If he does represent them will they be dynamic, interesting characters, or just shallow and stereotypical?

    GLBT people do exist in the US and writing a story without them, or making them minor/sterotypical/shallow characters is the same as writing out ethnic minorities the same way.

    Superman is a fairly old franchise, diversity would help breath some life into it.

  • Pasmith St Petersburg, FL
    March 8, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Someone needs to work a little harder and/or smarter about getting signatures for OSC's petition. I know there are a lot more than 200 who would have signed it.

  • Clarissa Layton, UT
    March 8, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    I'm proud of you Orson. Good for you for Standing for Something.

  • LDS Mom American Fork, UT
    March 8, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    Orson Scott Card is a great author. They can't take that away from him.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    “Anti-gay activists like Card can’t expect to spread the same hateful and dangerous rhetoric they once did..."

    What 'hateful and dangerous rhetoric' has he spread? Seriously--I'd like to know. The same emotion-laden words are thrown out against anyone that differs from the LGBT viewpoint.

    Would someone from the LGBT community please explain to me, civilly, why it is that if you don't support the gay agenda, you are considered 'hateful'? Look--I don't care if someone is LGBT. Good for you. I simply have a different view on it's role in society. Why does that make me 'hateful'? Perhaps it would help if you would define the terms 'hate' and 'hateful'.

    Tell me, by LGBT friends, since you have a different view than I, do you hate me? Just curious.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    It is simply amazing to see the contortions of logic made by people like the writer for the "Hollywood Reporter" who actively spew hatred and defamatory statements about someone like Orson Scott Card, someone who's only offense is to have a belief in maintaining the traditional, centuries-old structure of marriage as being that of joining people of opposite sexes.

    Far from simply defending the equal rights of everyone to civil rights and freedoms that are God-given and constitutionally guaranteed, these advocates of censorship and distortion actively persecute anyone who dares to speak out against their distortions of traditional marriage by seeking to deprive people of their livelihoods and freedom of expression.

    What incredible hypocrisy!

    I, for one, believe in freedom of thought and speech and hope that Orson will be defended from these attacks and prevail. As vital as it is, there is much more at stake here than the sanctity of marriage. When the right to free speech and free thought is infringed, **everything** is at stake.