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Utes, Beavers battle for No. 10 spot in Pac-12 tourney

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  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 7, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    Hypothetically, my Utes have a D-1 basketball team.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 6, 2013 10:32 p.m.

    motorbike, it's just funny to throw a hypothetical out there and watch them swarm to it. My work is done today.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    March 6, 2013 8:09 p.m.

    CFIT,

    You seem like a nice guy, I'm gonna help you out. In 1989 Loyola averaged 112.5 points per game, Gathers 32.7 and Bo Kimble 16.8 for a total of 49.5. Is there one other player from that team that averaged 11.5 ppg or better?

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    March 6, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    CFIT,

    You also predicted Haws, Davies and Carlino would average 60 ppg this year. How's that one going? When has any Cougar team accomplished this feat? Can you name ANY college team that has don it?

    This demonstrates you really don't know college basketball like you think you do.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    March 6, 2013 7:19 p.m.

    U90 - Before your first tip, I predicted a 12 win season. You can go back and look. How'd I do?

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    March 6, 2013 6:50 p.m.

    motorbike

    "... if they knew their team was so-o-o much better, would they be on this comment thread in the first place?"

    Of course they would! Watching the Utes wallow in self pity is great sport.

  • OCoug Ogden, UT
    March 6, 2013 6:19 p.m.

    Call this game the toilet bowl and get a little more money for the Pac 12 by having it sponsored by Kohler.

    All kidding aside, I hope the Utes are able to secure the 10th seed for the tournament.

    As for all the discussion which team would do better in which conference. Its the same as asking how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    March 6, 2013 6:02 p.m.

    I have great news, CougFaninTX is predicting a grim future for Utah basketball. When he makes basketball prognostications the opposite tends to happen. That seals it... the Utes will continue to improve under coach LK. Thank you CFIT

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    March 6, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    I have to say . . . I don't get it.

    @Chris B - "Coach K has my support."

    For starters, Coach K is at Duke. Coach Krystkowiak has never referred to himself as Coach K. Second, Coach Kystkowiak's best year is worse than Boylen's worst year. Two losing seasons, even with cupcakes for non-conference games and U have hope?

    I don't see any hope in sight. U are losing 3 or your 4 best players for next year. There is nobody of Loveridge's caliber coming in. Unfortunatly, next year is likely to be more of the same. Just be glad you're not in the MWC, where the results would be even worse. MWC is a power conference this year, the PAC is not.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 6, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    StGtoSLC,

    You're making way too much sense for these folks. I vote we just allow our cougar friends to keep thinking their team would've fared so much better than Utah in this years Pac-12 - it's much easier than trying to help them see the truth.
    Food for thought though, if they knew their team was so-o-o much better, would they be on this comment thread in the first place? Those that have less to prove, should have less to say.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    March 6, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    " ........ We could call this the Cellar Bowl!..... "

    How about the Celery Bowl?? lol.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    March 6, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    Regardless of how hard the kids on the hill try to rationalize the near final results,

    #60 RPI, 21-10, NCAA/NIT tournament bound

    is still MUCH, MUCH BETTER than

    #182 RPI, 11-17, near certain 1st round conference exit

    Good luck on securing that all important 10th spot in the conference tourney ;-)

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    March 6, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Unlike Utah, BYU didn't play .500 ball with RPI 150+ teams.

    BYU's record against such teams: 14-2 (88%)

    Utah's record against such teams: 5-5 (50%)

    BYU didn't prove they could beat RPI Top 50 teams, even though they came close, but the Cougars also didn't prove that they could lose to RPI 200+ teams.

    Utah beat two RPI Top 50 teams, but LOST to THREE RPI 200+ teams; in other words, the statistics show that Utah is more likely to lose to an RPI 200+ team, than to beat a Top 50 RPI team.

    Current RPI rankings are evidence enough that BYU is capable of finishing in the upper half of the PAC.

    Current RPI rankings are evidence enough that Utah is capable of finishing in the bottom third of the WCC.

    Sorry, if facts get in the way of your speculation.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    March 6, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    Too bad they arent playing for eleventh. We could call this the Cellar Bowl! Get used to it u. you are losing three starters and best players so you can continue the rebuilding jibe for another decade or so!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 6, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    skywalker: "BYU proved that they were good enough to hang with #1 Gonzaga."

    Who cares who they can "hang with" if they can't beat anybody that's any good? Does that mean that Utah's "hanging with" Arizona, UCLA, Cal and Colorado means something to you now?

    SportsFan: "RPI already measures your record against your SOS"

    Yes, but the W/L record obviously has much more weight on it, as could be seen when Utah had a good record, they were top 100, and even when losing teams they were "supposed to" lose to by narrower margins than expected still dropped.

    "so what makes you think that the Utes would be doing any better in the WCC, than they are in the PAC?"

    The same thing that makes BYU fans think they could finish in the top half of the PAC: opinion. They haven't shown they can beat anybody with as high of an RPI as USC, so why would they in a different conference? Utah has shown they can beat tournament quality teams, so why wouldn't they in a different conference?

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Meridian, ID
    March 6, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    Hey all you BYU commenters, don't be mixing facts in with our pipe dreams here in East Salt Lake. Since when do realities have anything to do with our fantasies? If we're happy being the laughing stock of the PAC 10+2 and we've convinced ourselves that we're anything more than the headline of this article suggests why do you have to go rain on our parade?

    I'm with Chris B., let's break this season's attendance record at the HC and get at least a high school sized audience in there so that game time photos won't appear to be taken during the morning shoot around, with most of the bottom row seats vacant.

    I also want to add my kudos to those of other Ute fans here for Coach K. He's doing wonderful things for Duke University. Keep up the good work Mike!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    March 6, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Uteology

    Gotta love the delusional escape into fantasy land.

    Ignoring your meaningless conference smack, Utah scheduled the absolutely worst pre-season schedule they could muster, yet even with a year and a half to recruit in Utah's latest rebuilding effort, the Utes were only able to win NINE games versus D-1 opponents and will have to beat OSU tomorrow night just to finish a game better in conference than Utah's worst season ever.

    Unlike football, it doesn't take 3 or 4 recruiting classes to rebuild; rebuilding can be done in only 1 or 2 recruiting classes, which Krysko has had.

    And let's not forget, 3 of Utah's best players are seniors, hardly the "new" crop of players you're using as a convenient excuse for another failed season.

    Of Utah's 6 players who are averaging 18 minutes or more - DuBois, Washburn, Loveridge, Taylor, Dean, and Martin - 3 seniors, 1 junior, 2 freshmen.

    Of BYU's 6 players who are averaging 18 minutes or more - Davies, Haws, Zilstra, Carlino, Sharp, and Cusick - 3 seniors, 3 sophomores.

    As you can see, the disparity in experienced key players simply doesn't exist.

    BYU has four freshmen on its roster; Utah has five. Big deal!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 6, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    @skywalker
    The only similarity between the two teams is they're both going through rebuilding years.

    -----------

    Nope. Utah is "rebuilding the program" with 11 new players this year. They were picked to finish 12th in the PAC-12.

    BYU was picked to finish #2 in the WCC. Is finishing #3 in a two team conference rebuilding?

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    March 6, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    "Well my opinion is that Utah would have a top 100 RPI if they played in the WCC, too."

    I'm laughing at the sheer incongruity of that opinion.

    RPI already measures your record against your SOS, so a better record against a weaker schedule would still give you the exact same #182 RPI that you currently have.

    The Utes are only 5-5 versus RPI 150+ teams, so what makes you think that the Utes would be doing any better in the WCC, than they are in the PAC?

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    March 6, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    motorbike

    @Phoenix

    "The reality is that BYU hasn't proved it can do anything against top 100 teams this year."

    Nope, the reality is that BYU has beaten FIVE RPI Top 100 teams - #89 Santa Clara (twice), #94 Weber State, #96 Utah State, and #99 Montana - and came within an eyelash of beating #40 Saint Mary's (lost 69-70 on a desperation half-court shot at the buzzer) and #11 Gonzaga (trailed 62-63 with only 46 sec left, before losing 65-70).

    "Face it, BYU is very comparable to the rebuilding Utes this year..."

    LOL at your hyperbole.

    The only similarity between the two teams is they're both going through rebuilding years.

    In BYU's case, that means a #61 RPI, 20+ win season, and an NIT/NCAA berth.

    In Utah's case, that means a #182 RPI, 9 wins versus D-1 opponents, and a first-round exit from the PAC 10.2 tourney.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    March 6, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Uteology

    Actually, it proves a lot.

    It proves that despite all of the arrogant PAC is BETTER than the WCC smack, a team from the WCC can achieve ANYTHING a team from the PAC can achievement.

    Individual teams are judged by what they accomplish, not by what their conference accomplishes.

    --------

    StGtoSLC

    "phoenix, what gives you the impression BYU would be in the top 6 in the PAC-12 when they haven't proven they can beat anyone as good as #8 USC?..."

    BYU's RPI suggests that's exactly where BYU would be, and, BYU proved that they were good enough to hang with #1 Gonzaga.

    "...my opinion is that Utah would have a top 100 RPI if they played in the WCC, too."

    It's funny how Utah fans only remember Utah's wins, while completely forgetting, or intentionally ignoring, Utah's losses.

    It's very likely that a team that lost to #186 OSU, #194 WSU, #226 SMU, #247 CS Northridge, and #287 Sac St, would also lose to the bottom dwellers of the WCC - #201 Pepperdine, #218 Portland, and #251 LMU - and finish at the bottom of the WCC, just like U finished at the bottom of the PAC.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 6, 2013 6:34 a.m.

    Phoenix,

    The reality is that BYU hasn't proved it can do anything against top 100 teams this year. Based on that, there's no reason to believe they'd have finished any higher than Utah did in the PAC-12 race. The difference in rating stems a heckuva lot more to do with the amount of top 100 games Utah played versus how many BYU played.
    Face it, BYU is very comparable to the rebuilding Utes this year, both teams are pretty lousy.
    As for Gonzaga being #1, good for them. And like Gonzaga, Utah has had its share of proving that the little conf teams can do big things, so you really don't need to convince anyone of that. What you need to convince us of is that the WCC can consistently place more than one or two teams in the big dance.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 6, 2013 6:29 a.m.

    phoenix, what gives you the impression BYU would be in the top 6 in the PAC-12 when they haven't proven they can beat anyone as good as #8 USC? Opinion? Well my opinion is that Utah would have a top 100 RPI if they played in the WCC, too.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 6, 2013 12:19 a.m.

    @phoenix

    The real kick in the gut to arrogant Utah fans is Gonzaga is proving that you don't have to be in a "power" conference in order to be the #1 team in the country.

    ---------

    That proves diddly, just like 1984.

    Unlike 1984, Gonzaga will have a chance prove that for the FIRST time a non-power conference deserves to be a National Champion.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    March 5, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    motorbike

    Top to bottom the PAC is better than the WCC, but the best team in the WCC is much better than the best team in the PAC.

    Of course that really doesn't matter to U, since you'd be a bottom dweller in the WCC, just like you are in the PAC.

    The real kick in the gut to arrogant Utah fans is Gonzaga is proving that you don't have to be in a "power" conference in order to be the #1 team in the country.

    Even in a down year for BYU, the Cougars would still be in the upper half of the PAC. Meanwhile, Utah, battling WSU and OSU to stay out of the PAC basement, would be in the bottom third of the WCC.

    PAC
    #13 Ariz
    #29 Col
    #31 UCLA
    #45 Cal
    #49 Ore
    #61 BYU

    #69 Stan
    #81 Wash
    #88 USC
    #92 ASU

    #182 Utah
    #185 OSU
    #194 WSU

    WCC
    #11 Gonzaga
    #41 Saint Mary's
    #61 BYU

    #89 Santa Clara
    #153 Ssn Fran
    #181 San Diego

    #182 Utah
    #203 Pepperdine
    #220 Portland
    #253 Loyola Marymount

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 5, 2013 10:02 p.m.

    For those touting the WCC as better than the PAC-12, pay close attention to how many teams get invited to the NCAA Tourney this year. And remember, this is the same measuring stick you all bragged about last year even though it was obviously a once in 30 years anomaly that the WCC finished with more teams in the tourney. You may want to pay attention to how many get an NIT invite as well.
    Lets all be honest, the WCC has Gonzaga. And that's it.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    March 5, 2013 9:24 p.m.

    2fer

    When it comes to Top 25 rankings, AP and Coaches Polls ALWAYS trump RPI.

    Check any Sportscast - ESPN, FOX, CBS - when they cite rankings, they NEVER cite RPI

    #1 Gonzaga > #18 Arizona

    Gonzaga beat #9 Kansas State, #13 Oklahoma State, and #23 Saint Mary's (twice)

    Arizona beat #6 Miami and #11 Florida

    Gonzaga is projected as a #1 seed

    Arizona is projected as a #5 seed

    Big Advantage Gonzaga - in fact, it's not even close.

    Clearly you're just bitter that the PAC 10.2 is being overshadowed by the WCC.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2013 8:12 p.m.

    @ Down under

    Arizona's RPI is ranked 13th (Gonzaga is 11th). Also, Arizona beat Southern Miss, Florida, Miami, SDSU, and Colorado. Clearly you're still bitter towards the PAC-12, but that is no reason to say outlandish things.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    March 5, 2013 7:39 p.m.

    "Utes, Beavers battle for No. 10 spot in Pac-12 tourney"

    Slight typo there.

    What the headline should have said was...

    "#182 Utes and #185 Beavers pillow fight to stay ahead of the #194 Cougars and avoid the PAC 10.2 basement"

  • Down under Pacific Northwest, WA
    March 5, 2013 6:01 p.m.

    CRISSY,
    Name one! By the way does your power conference have a #1 team? I have watched, in person, many of the PAC 10 teams play and two of the .2 teams play this year. Believe me, they are not that great. None of them deserve a ranking, especially Arizona. They got some early cupcake wins. UCLA is pretty bad as well. The only reason there are three teams in the top 25 is because they play bad teams, like Utah.
    I agree with Ute Buster. The PAC 10.2 is not longer a power conference.

  • street11 Heber, UT
    March 5, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    Utah should be embarrassed about this. A fantastic program simply gone to the bottom. I don't care what conference. Big Sky, WCC, or PAC 12 you should be able to compete in any conference if we truly believe that our in state programs are as good as they are.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    Only thing worse than Ute Football is Ute basketball......so 10th place in the pac 12 makes you what 372 in the nation? Barbara Steisand and Dustin Hoffman would be so proud

  • Ute buster Pacific Northwest, WA
    March 5, 2013 5:12 p.m.

    The top 7 teams in the WCC would wipe the floor with Utah so no need to settle for 10th place in a so-called power conference.

    It used to be considered a power conference until a few years ago. Not so much anymore, especially when you add weak teams. Just because it was once a great conference does not mean that it is now.

  • LindonMan Lindon, UT
    March 5, 2013 5:12 p.m.

    No 10 in the PAC. Now that's something to be proud of!

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    March 5, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Go UTES!! Yes, it is sad that they are battling for last place in the tourney if you are an outsider looking in, or are just plain ignorant. However, I am proud of coach K and his program. They are progressing each year thus far and I don't see why this trend won't continue. Anyway, make some noise, even if it is small.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2013 4:49 p.m.

    @Down Under

    Any 3rd place team in a non-power conference would JUMP at the chance to be the 3rd to last team in a power conference.

  • Down under Pullman, WA
    March 5, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    Great headline. "Battling for last place in the tourney"
    Wow what an accomplishment. Not to worry though, Utah still has BCS membership.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    Let show up Utes. Pack the house these last 2 games. To have assemebled a team from scratch 2 years ago in a power conferene and to have taken a top 10 team down to the wire twice this season, among other close games(both wins and losses), I'm thrilled with the upward movement of this program.

    Coach K has my support. Show up Utes. Let's sell this thing out!