Gee, Counter I, the more you write, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself. Of
course Jesus didn't make pronouncements about government health care or
abortion policies. He also didn't say anything about the Super Bowl,
casinos, corporate power, gang graffiti, gun control, automobile emissions, or a
million other things his world did not know. But he did make enough statements
about his view of how we should live that we can certainly make some educated
guesses about what he would think of the issues in our world, and I don't
think he'd have very kind things to say about Republican economic policies.
Ernest T. Bass"Counter Intel, how would anyone guess what Jesus'
politics were?"And yet, not only did you do exactly that; you
also deemed the pharisees as conservative, when for all we know they were the
era's politicaly correct bullies (a sort of 1st century MSNBC)Again I ask the question; when conservatives bring God into the conversation,
as you just did, they are decried of as being pompous and self righteous. So
what makes you better? I see nothing. (Actually I see massive hypocrisy; which
explains why some people automatically vote for the person with an (R) behind
their name. For whatever reasons Republicans may be corrupted or flawed - you
provide the reminder that the left is usually worse.)
So, Counter Intelligence, you're saying that the Utah Republican Party is
not handicapped by the national Republican apparatus? Well, I guess you're
right. The Utah GOP is probably a lot more extreme than the average GOPer across
the country. Tea Party heaven here in the Great Basin.But
you're wrong about the Democrats. The national Democrats have been co-opted
by moderates. They just look extreme to those who have fallen off the Right edge
of the political map. I guess to those who drink too much tea "extreme"
means offering a balanced approach to dealing with deficits, seeking reasonable
immigration reform, putting our obese military on a diet, and trying to curb the
rampant inequality that is making our economy nonviable.Ernest, I
too know many Mormons who are more Republican than LDS. Most of them know next
to nothing about their own history.
Excellent perspective. Only one disagreement. Utah teachers' salaries would
be 49th highest or 2nd lowest, not 49th lowest (which means 2nd highest). The
math can get confusing when our numbers are so low.
I have long felt that Utah's one-party rule and power is detrimental
overall. Local Democrats have a huge disadvantage in Utah because of the
national Democratic platforms and leftist leanings. Local Democrats are not
nearly as liberal. As a Republican who has met and discussed politics with many
Utah Democratic candidates, I have felt to support many of them over their
Republican opponents. I personally feel a big difference between
Utah Democrats and New York or California or DC Democrats.
Counter Intel, how would anyone guess what Jesus' politics were? Based on
how he talked to the conservatives, the pharisees, I would hazard a guess that
he was politically liberal as well.
@Ernest T. Bass - Open Minded MormonThere is a vast difference between
being intellectually liberal and politically liberal. While I believe
Christ was the former – that does not automatically translate into the
latter, since the two terms have nothing in common except a word in the name. I
do not recall any pronouncements from Christ regarding government health care or
abortion policies, etc. and I believe he routinely condemned racial, class and
gender warfare. My experience is that political liberals sell an idea (such as
the termination of human life) under the guise of “choice”, then
immediately work to eliminate the possibility of anyone making a different
choice (such as forcing those opposed abortion to pay for, prescribe or perform
the procedure). I have also heard it effectively argued that forcing anyone to
abandoned free agency is the antithesis of God’s plan. Ironically;
when conservatives bring God into the conversation, as you just did, they are
decried of as being pompous and self righteous. There are also those who would
vote for Satan if he had a (D) after his name. So what make you better? I see
@Utah DemBecause Utah Democrats are hobbled by the national party - that
was my point.No I don’t agree with everything in the national
Republican platform - but I agree with their vision far more than the
race/gender/class war faring vision and the embracement of failing European
economic systems that permeates the Democrat national platform. Specifically I
am more included to agree with the Dems on land control issues, and I am prone
to supporting mass transit and efforts to clean Utah air, but I agree with the
Republicans on Keystone pipeline and the general distrust of global warming
hysteria. Generally: Small government is better than big government.Not all Utah Dems are more moderate than their national counterparts; although
it is to their credit that Rocky Anderson (who personifies hysterics and
intolerance) was mutually dumped by the Dems. Also Jim Debakas should be
commended for confronting head-on the anti-Mormon sentiment that has pervaded
the local Democratic Party for the last several decades. It’s hard to
claim the mantle of tolerance when the organization clearly was not.It is the Democratic Party's job to attract Utah voters - not vice versa.
Ernest T. BassBountiful, UT10:19 a.m. March 5, 2013============ I could not agree more with this comment Ernest!Great comment.Ah-men, and Ah-men!
So many voters in Utah are incapable of rational thought when it comes down to
marking the ballot. My father-in-law would vote for Satan over Jesus as long as
Satan had the (R) next to his name and Jesus had the (D) next to his. Of
course Jesus was a liberal but that's another issue.
Chicago of the west.......aka, Salt Lake City, Utah...... Enough said!
When I was a youth we had Calvin Rampton as Governor. He was a democrat. I
went to the state convention and personally talked with Scott Matheson, who
became a Governor of Utah. He, too, was a democrat. I can tell you that we
propered and the State was in great shape and well served with both of these
Democratic Governor's, in my view.No so much so with Norm
Bangerter, Mike Leavitt, and Gary Herbert. We're in a quick-sand type of
situation into which we allowed ourselves to become mired, accusing the national
democratic party platform for our one-sidedness in state government.
That's a feel-good way of blaming others for our woes.We have
had some mighty good democrats in local, state and national office from Utah.
And we've had more than one questionable republican, especially in the
state legislature.That being said, I am an independent that has
NEVER voted s straight-party ticket in my life.
Counter Intelligence - your comment starts off on state government but then you
immediately jump to the Democratic national platform to be critical of Dems in
Utah, why is that? Is that because Utah Dems are far more moderate than their
national party? Can you honestly say that you fully support the Republican
here is the real questions to ask yourself. Is he wrong? if he is right do the
voters of Utah deserve his respect?
Why should he?He knows he will be re-elected no matter what he may
or may not do.He has the magic "R" beside his name on the
The two party system works well in the United States. I only wish we had a two
party system that worked well in Utah. The Governor is correct when he
questions the reality that even a person under suspension of committing federal
crimes can be elected. - as long as they are "conservative Republicans."
The unquestioned commitment to voting for ultra conservative Republicans - no
matter what, is a serious problem for the State of Utah. I support
Governor Herbert's intelligent approach to this issue, as well as his
thoughtful approach to Gun Control legislation. The "far right" is
attacking him for spurious reasons. As Republicans, we need to support moderate
elected Republicans. The State of Utah is being marginalized by our
extreme positions on guns, the federal budget, gay rights, birth control, etc.
As Utahans, we are buying Guns, Gold, and Grub, thinking that the world is
coming to an end. This blind nonsense is hurting everyone in Utah and is
pushing us to the sidelines in America..
I agree that it would be nice to have some more diversity in state government -
however I am not going to vote for someone whose ideas I disagree merely to get
it. The national Democratic Party has been so co-opted by extremists that the
local Democratic Party can no longer compete. That is not the Republican
Party’s’ fault - however arguing that it is; simply insures that
even fewer Democrats will be elected in Utah. Democrats - not Republicans need
to modify their message if they want to be elected - blaming the voters for
Democrat failure to make a dent in the Republican majority shows an incredible
lack of respect for democracy in general.
Good article.EMajor, you're right on. Utahns have a really bad
habit of voting against their own interests time after time.
"He recently suggested that a Republican under investigation for a potential
federal crime could still defeat a qualified Democratic candidate for statewide
office."He is just admitting reality with that statement. I
think it is less that the governor disrespects voters, and more that Utah voters
I`m glad he expresses his views not always saying or thinking the way that the
Republicans party does!
They went nuts over the loser in the Presidential campaign.
It is only natural the Governor does not respect voters - they elected HIM to