Perfice,The numbers are there. I am not sure how you get your
"data" but I have my data from the FBI's website. This are some
numbers from the FBI Violent Crime Stats for the last 20 years:Population in 1992-255,029,699 in 2011-311,591,917 = IncreaseViolent
crime rate (all)1992-1,932,274 in 2011-1,203,564 = decrease(with population
increase)Violent crime per 100,000 in 1992-757.7 in 2011-386.3 ALMOST
HALFMurder\Manslaughter in 1992-23,760 in 2011-14,612 ALMOST HALFMurder rate per 100,000 in 1992-9.3 in 2011-4.7 ALMOST HALFRobbery in
1992-672,478 in 2011-354,396 ALMOST HALFThis is all happening with
the population going up and the number of guns in circulation in the US going
up. There are 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US according to a WIKIPEDIA
study. BTW according to the CDC: Number of deaths in the US by firearm
2011-31,672, of which 19,392 were suicide. That means for the 200,000,000+ guns
in America, 12280 were involved in a murder for a percent of .0000614.
This goes too far and it a bit ridiculous. I absolutely support the right to
carry guns and I do not want any restrictions on so called assault weapons that
are not automatic, or clip restrictions or anything of the sort. However, I do
want people to go through the training and the background check, as I did, to
get a concealed weapons permit. That is a very reasonable requirement. To
protect the hunters just write a simple law allowing concealed weapons when in
the act of hunting. I don't think hunting is allowed in downtown SLC or an
any city limits nor should it be. That is a bit more reasonable than allowing
any yahoo or nutcase to carry a concealed weapon.
Vermont has never had a problem, but then this IS Utah. After reading some of
the posts here by certain Utahans I would hope few of them will use this law.
We will be all safer.
We have liberties that are explicitly guaranteed in the Constitution. It seems
that those liberties that are explicitly guaranteed are the very freedoms that
are under attack by this administration. "Congress shall make
no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;" 1st
AmendmentObama is attacking establishments of religion by demanding
that they provide health insurance to prevent conception. Life is the basis of
religion. Obama begs to differ.Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
literally brought down an administration when they wrote about Nixon. They were
the darlings of the Left. Now with Obama in his sights, Bob Woodward is under a
horrendous attack for writing about Obama and the things that Obama said and did
leading up to the sequestration. The Left is eating one of its own. Freedom of
speech only works for Obama's friends."shall not be
infringed" - 2nd Amendment.Obama and his cronies have redefined
"shall not" to mean "shall". They are FORBIDDEN to write laws
or enforce laws that limit our right to keep and bear arms. They won't let
the Constitution stand in their way.
Having moved from PA a couple years ago, my PA permit is no longer valid in Utah
under reciprocity. I am going for my Utah permit next week to regain a license
as well as the reciprocity once again.I am happy to be living in a
gun-friendly state now, but have to scratch my head at the logic of a
non-licensed individual having to carry without a round in the chamber. How
exactly do those writing the bill expect to enforce such a thing?These are such things that I will be paying close attention to, and
remembering when election time rolls around again.
Happy Valley Heretic hit the bull's eye: "Sad little men".
In the future when there are daily gun battles in Utah, this type of legislation
will lead to new amendments and laws limiting the second amendment and the
unlimited "right" to hide an instrument designed to kill. The symbolic
extremism is not in Utah best interest and is a mistake.
What will the argument be when scores of people are massacred by a
concealed-weapons holder after he/she snaps after a successful background check?
This is coming and we all know it.
The Governor and so many posters have disdain for the Constitution. They think
that somehow they can abolish "shall not be infringed" from the
Constitution without a Constitutional amendment. They think that their clever
rhetoric is sufficient to destroy our freedom.We have the right to
keep and bear arms. The government cannot make laws that restrict that
freedom.The PEOPLE are in charge, not the government. The PEOPLE
have retained that right. No one, neither the President nor the Governor nor
the neighbor living down the street, has the right to restrict that freedom.Why do so many people seem to think that our rights come from the
government? Who gave those rights to the government to mete out. Just the
contrary is true. "We hold these truths to be self-evident,
that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain unalienable Rights," Those mighty words led to our
freedom from the yoke of a King. Those mighty words are dismissed by those who
tell us that government doles out rights.
@tators.... ummmm, yes, I did read the article. Did you? "Herbert told reporters Thursday he was not pleased with Mathis' bill
because it went BEYOND helping Utahns in largely rural areas who normally openly
carry their weapons avoid running into trouble when they wear a jacket.?"... the effect of the bill is to remove the state's permit
requirement to carry a concealed weapon"The issue of the bill
being too broad has been reported on many times over. It has no language in it
limiting the scope to just agricultural areas or wilderness lands. That is
mainly what Herbert wanted added in - that didn't make the bill.So yes, we people did actually read the article - the whole thing.
Cell phones don't cause problems.People cause problems. Should we just ban people?
..and to beat the dead horse some more,the annual number of all
deaths from firearms is 3 times the gun homicide rate which, interestingly
enough is set to exceed the annual rate of traffic fatalities. That rate of
course is falling at a steady pace because of safety regulations. Somehow most
people don't think that their freedoms are being curtailed by those
regulations ... hmmm.and some bibliography:UNODC. 2011.
‘Homicide in 207 Countries - United States.’ Global Study on
Homicide 2011: Trends, Context, Data; Statistical Annex (with online datasets),
pp. 103-125. Vienna: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. 6 OctoberHoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu. 2012. ‘Deaths: Preliminary Data
for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS); Vol
61, No. 6, pp.40-42. Hyattsville, MD: US Department of Health and Human
Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics.
10 October.WISQARS. 2009. ‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and
Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System /
WISQARS. Atlanta: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention / CDC. 9 December.etc.
I would propose that I'd rather require open display of assault weapons
than to permit them to be concealed. It seems that if one were to openly
display them it would be safer than to allow for them to be concealed and be
unprepared for them. Concealment only provide a false sense of security, even
to the person who owns the weapon.Utah needs to own up to its gun
culture and be willing to expose itself as oppose to hiding. Let the public
experience the true nature of the gun culture in Utah and then let there be an
"informed" vote on the right to own and bear weapons. Will we feel
safer if weapons were to be on open display? At least criminals might be more
reluctant to commit crimes or the general public might be frightened into
controlling the prevalence such weapons.
Dear Technonerd7,I went and educated myself as you requested and
found the following:Firearm homicides in the US have NOT been cut in
half in the last 20 years. They have declined ever so slightly in the last three
years as a result of the recession since people have less money to play with
guns. During this same period of time, gun ownership has floated between 84 and
88 guns per 1000 people.2011: 11,10152010: 11,07862009:
11,4936 2008: 12,1792007: 12,6322006: 12,7912005:
12,3522004: 11,6242003: 11,9202002: 11,8292001:
11,3482000: 10,8011999: 10,8281998: 9,2578It's better to check the facts than just make things up.
Re:HappyValleyHereticUT one of the most diverse in the Nation?You're kidding, right?
Getting a conceal permit is a ridiculous process. I'm ok with no permit
for conceal as long as their is a background check for purchase. In fact
I'd make the permit to purchase a little more tough (not $$ wise but, have
you kept your nose clean wise).
Should we call this the Barney Fife law? Not having a bullet in the chamber
seemed to keep him out of a lot of trouble.
Happy Valley Heretic:Some of that is good advice you give. But if
you truly feel you have "to ignore most of the people" in Utah, as you
stated, then you must indeed be very unhappy. I sincerely hope you're able
to find another state where you feel you can freely communicate with most of the
people. In the meantime, considering the decibel level of your postings,
we'll gladly follow your advice and start ignoring anything you say.
To Happy Valley Heretic: Anyone who truly dislikes Utah too much the way
it is always has the option of moving somewhere else. That's a law we
won't be changing anytime soon. What I would like it to say is welcome to
Utah No liberals remain here.Awe yes, the old like it or leave it.
Like I tell people from out of state "Utah is probably one of the most
diverse and beautiful states in the Nation. You just have to ignore the most of
the people, at least the loudest ones.
Listen. Some of you don't like guns. We get that. We don't like
some things you do. It's ok. That is what makes America great. I
don't tell you know to do something, and you don't tell me I
can't carry my weapon. If you saw me on the street, you would not even
know I carry. Because I am responsible. This bill, and others like it, protect
my RIGHT to do so.As for more guns=more deaths: If you do a little
research on the FBI's website, and look under violent crime, you will
notice a funny trend that Liberals do not want people to know about. During the
last 20 years, the population has steadily gone up, the amount of guns in
citizens hands have gone up, but violent crimes with guns have been cut in HALF.
Yes, you read that right. In Half. Educate yourselves before trying to take
my rights away. Remember, people kill people. Not guns. A gun is
a tool. Blaming a gun for killing someone is like saying the drunk driver
didn't kill that person, the car did.
"no liberals remain here" way to honor "the constitution"
Okay, a round not in the chamber is good. Now, can we add mandatory gun safety
training? Then it won't be such a dangerous law!Better yet
would be to just leave the existing law! I'm just not aware of any huge
problems with the existing law requiring a change?
To UtahBlueDevil:Do some of you people even read the articles before
writing your comments? This article clearly states that ranchers and other
people in southern Utah, who have been using the open carry law for decades,
will now be able to wear a jacket or coat over their weapon in the winter
without being harassed by authorities for technically breaking existing law.
It's mainly just a clarification law and nothing earth shattering.
Don't read more into this than there is. It's truly not a big deal
from how the law currently is and has been in Utah for quite some time.To Happy Valley Heretic:Considering the all the nonsensical issues
we're encountering in contemporary society, going back to the 1890's
for awhile might be a welcome change. Don't knock it until you've
tried it. My great grandfather seemed a whole lot happier than most of the
people I encounter nowadays. Anyone who truly dislikes Utah too much the way it
is always has the option of moving somewhere else. That's a law we
won't be changing anytime soon.
"no fit"...I have been teaching my kids how to handle a gun since they
were 5 years old. One of the reasons accidents happen with kids and guns is the
only thing their terrified parents all too often tell them is "not to touch
any gun" so their curiosity is piqued, there ingnorance level is high, and
the situation is primed for an accident.With proper training and
supervision you don't have to be so scared of guns and your kids will know
exactly how to handle them safely thus reducing the chances for accidents.
Perhaps I got this wrong, but the gun can be loaded, but just not have a round
chambered? That is supposed to give me warm fuzzies about Jethro packing at
Lagooon? This is solving what problem?
Obviously, the next step will be children being taught to handle a gun. After
all, with the school districts low on funding, the only answer for protection
and safety is children having the means to protect themselves.Junior
Safety Program as no one could ever have imagined!Mental health
programs?Start with sending the NRA first.
@ Happy What it says is: Welcome to Utah where we honor the Constitution and
specifically the Second Amendment.What I would like it to say is welcome to
Utah No liberals remain here.
We were almost catching up, now we'll have to put those signs back up that
say "Welcome to Utah Set Your Watch Back to 1890. Sad little men.
now is crazy season from the state house making laws that help no one. more guns
on the street is not better. more guns more chance of accidents and more chance
of arms theft. angers issues being done with fire arms rather then the the bird.
it may turn good people into fellons by one bad choice. it does not do anything
to democrats, like i think they do stuff like this for. it does things to
everyone. in the 60s no one carried firearms and less people where killed by
firearms. i felt safe then open carry came out i got one myself to protect me
from the other ones that have them. because you dont know what they may do.
scary state now.