# 'Constitutional carry' gun bill passes House after change

• technonerd7 orem, ut
March 3, 2013 10:06 a.m.

Perfice,

The numbers are there. I am not sure how you get your "data" but I have my data from the FBI's website. This are some numbers from the FBI Violent Crime Stats for the last 20 years:

Population in 1992-255,029,699 in 2011-311,591,917 = Increase
Violent crime rate (all)1992-1,932,274 in 2011-1,203,564 = decrease(with population increase)
Violent crime per 100,000 in 1992-757.7 in 2011-386.3 ALMOST HALF
Murder\Manslaughter in 1992-23,760 in 2011-14,612 ALMOST HALF
Murder rate per 100,000 in 1992-9.3 in 2011-4.7 ALMOST HALF
Robbery in 1992-672,478 in 2011-354,396 ALMOST HALF

This is all happening with the population going up and the number of guns in circulation in the US going up. There are 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US according to a WIKIPEDIA study. BTW according to the CDC: Number of deaths in the US by firearm 2011-31,672, of which 19,392 were suicide. That means for the 200,000,000+ guns in America, 12280 were involved in a murder for a percent of .0000614.

• happylife OREM, UT
March 2, 2013 7:59 p.m.

This goes too far and it a bit ridiculous. I absolutely support the right to carry guns and I do not want any restrictions on so called assault weapons that are not automatic, or clip restrictions or anything of the sort. However, I do want people to go through the training and the background check, as I did, to get a concealed weapons permit. That is a very reasonable requirement. To protect the hunters just write a simple law allowing concealed weapons when in the act of hunting. I don't think hunting is allowed in downtown SLC or an any city limits nor should it be. That is a bit more reasonable than allowing any yahoo or nutcase to carry a concealed weapon.

• MiddleRight Orem, UT
March 2, 2013 5:27 p.m.

Vermont has never had a problem, but then this IS Utah. After reading some of the posts here by certain Utahans I would hope few of them will use this law. We will be all safer.

• Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
March 2, 2013 4:50 p.m.

We have liberties that are explicitly guaranteed in the Constitution. It seems that those liberties that are explicitly guaranteed are the very freedoms that are under attack by this administration.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;" 1st Amendment

Obama is attacking establishments of religion by demanding that they provide health insurance to prevent conception. Life is the basis of religion. Obama begs to differ.

Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein literally brought down an administration when they wrote about Nixon. They were the darlings of the Left. Now with Obama in his sights, Bob Woodward is under a horrendous attack for writing about Obama and the things that Obama said and did leading up to the sequestration. The Left is eating one of its own. Freedom of speech only works for Obama's friends.

"shall not be infringed" - 2nd Amendment.

Obama and his cronies have redefined "shall not" to mean "shall". They are FORBIDDEN to write laws or enforce laws that limit our right to keep and bear arms. They won't let the Constitution stand in their way.

• Fog Tripper Heber, UT
March 2, 2013 1:46 p.m.

Having moved from PA a couple years ago, my PA permit is no longer valid in Utah under reciprocity. I am going for my Utah permit next week to regain a license as well as the reciprocity once again.

I am happy to be living in a gun-friendly state now, but have to scratch my head at the logic of a non-licensed individual having to carry without a round in the chamber. How exactly do those writing the bill expect to enforce such a thing?

These are such things that I will be paying close attention to, and remembering when election time rolls around again.

• EDM Castle Valley, Utah
March 2, 2013 8:50 a.m.

Happy Valley Heretic hit the bull's eye: "Sad little men".

• one vote Salt Lake City, UT
March 2, 2013 8:51 a.m.

In the future when there are daily gun battles in Utah, this type of legislation will lead to new amendments and laws limiting the second amendment and the unlimited "right" to hide an instrument designed to kill. The symbolic extremism is not in Utah best interest and is a mistake.

• EDM Castle Valley, Utah
March 2, 2013 8:47 a.m.

What will the argument be when scores of people are massacred by a concealed-weapons holder after he/she snaps after a successful background check? This is coming and we all know it.

• Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
March 2, 2013 8:29 a.m.

The Governor and so many posters have disdain for the Constitution. They think that somehow they can abolish "shall not be infringed" from the Constitution without a Constitutional amendment. They think that their clever rhetoric is sufficient to destroy our freedom.

We have the right to keep and bear arms. The government cannot make laws that restrict that freedom.

The PEOPLE are in charge, not the government. The PEOPLE have retained that right. No one, neither the President nor the Governor nor the neighbor living down the street, has the right to restrict that freedom.

Why do so many people seem to think that our rights come from the government? Who gave those rights to the government to mete out. Just the contrary is true.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,"

Those mighty words led to our freedom from the yoke of a King. Those mighty words are dismissed by those who tell us that government doles out rights.

• UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
March 2, 2013 5:07 a.m.

@tators.... ummmm, yes, I did read the article. Did you?

"Herbert told reporters Thursday he was not pleased with Mathis' bill because it went BEYOND helping Utahns in largely rural areas who normally openly carry their weapons avoid running into trouble when they wear a jacket.?

"... the effect of the bill is to remove the state's permit requirement to carry a concealed weapon"

The issue of the bill being too broad has been reported on many times over. It has no language in it limiting the scope to just agricultural areas or wilderness lands. That is mainly what Herbert wanted added in - that didn't make the bill.

So yes, we people did actually read the article - the whole thing.

• Truthseeker SLO, CA
March 1, 2013 11:47 p.m.

Cell phones don't cause problems.

People cause problems.

Should we just ban people?

• Perfice South Jordan, UT
March 1, 2013 9:02 p.m.

..and to beat the dead horse some more,

the annual number of all deaths from firearms is 3 times the gun homicide rate which, interestingly enough is set to exceed the annual rate of traffic fatalities. That rate of course is falling at a steady pace because of safety regulations. Somehow most people don't think that their freedoms are being curtailed by those regulations ... hmmm.

and some bibliography:

UNODC. 2011. ‘Homicide in 207 Countries - United States.’ Global Study on Homicide 2011: Trends, Context, Data; Statistical Annex (with online datasets), pp. 103-125. Vienna: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. 6 October

Hoyert, Donna L. and Jiaquan Xu. 2012. ‘Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 - Selected Causes.’ National Vital Statistics Reports (NVSS); Vol 61, No. 6, pp.40-42. Hyattsville, MD: US Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics. 10 October.

WISQARS. 2009. ‘Injury Mortality Reports 1999 and Onwards (USA).’ Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System / WISQARS. Atlanta: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention / CDC. 9 December.

etc.

• tabuno Clearfield, UT
March 1, 2013 9:01 p.m.

I would propose that I'd rather require open display of assault weapons than to permit them to be concealed. It seems that if one were to openly display them it would be safer than to allow for them to be concealed and be unprepared for them. Concealment only provide a false sense of security, even to the person who owns the weapon.

Utah needs to own up to its gun culture and be willing to expose itself as oppose to hiding. Let the public experience the true nature of the gun culture in Utah and then let there be an "informed" vote on the right to own and bear weapons. Will we feel safer if weapons were to be on open display? At least criminals might be more reluctant to commit crimes or the general public might be frightened into controlling the prevalence such weapons.

• Perfice South Jordan, UT
March 1, 2013 8:48 p.m.

Dear Technonerd7,

I went and educated myself as you requested and found the following:

Firearm homicides in the US have NOT been cut in half in the last 20 years. They have declined ever so slightly in the last three years as a result of the recession since people have less money to play with guns. During this same period of time, gun ownership has floated between 84 and 88 guns per 1000 people.

2011: 11,1015
2010: 11,0786
2009: 11,4936
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632
2006: 12,791
2005: 12,352
2004: 11,624
2003: 11,920
2002: 11,829
2001: 11,348
2000: 10,801
1999: 10,828
1998: 9,2578

It's better to check the facts than just make things up.

• Truthseeker SLO, CA
March 1, 2013 6:50 p.m.

Re:HappyValleyHeretic

UT one of the most diverse in the Nation?

You're kidding, right?

• 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
March 1, 2013 5:55 p.m.

Getting a conceal permit is a ridiculous process. I'm ok with no permit for conceal as long as their is a background check for purchase. In fact I'd make the permit to purchase a little more tough (not \$\$ wise but, have you kept your nose clean wise).

• DRay Roy, UT
March 1, 2013 5:49 p.m.

Should we call this the Barney Fife law? Not having a bullet in the chamber seemed to keep him out of a lot of trouble.

• Tators Hyrum, UT
March 1, 2013 4:31 p.m.

Happy Valley Heretic:

Some of that is good advice you give. But if you truly feel you have "to ignore most of the people" in Utah, as you stated, then you must indeed be very unhappy. I sincerely hope you're able to find another state where you feel you can freely communicate with most of the people. In the meantime, considering the decibel level of your postings, we'll gladly follow your advice and start ignoring anything you say.

• Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
March 1, 2013 3:45 p.m.

To Happy Valley Heretic:
Anyone who truly dislikes Utah too much the way it is always has the option of moving somewhere else. That's a law we won't be changing anytime soon. What I would like it to say is welcome to Utah No liberals remain here.

Awe yes, the old like it or leave it. Like I tell people from out of state "Utah is probably one of the most diverse and beautiful states in the Nation. You just have to ignore the most of the people, at least the loudest ones.

• technonerd7 orem, ut
March 1, 2013 3:39 p.m.

Listen. Some of you don't like guns. We get that. We don't like some things you do. It's ok. That is what makes America great. I don't tell you know to do something, and you don't tell me I can't carry my weapon. If you saw me on the street, you would not even know I carry. Because I am responsible. This bill, and others like it, protect my RIGHT to do so.

As for more guns=more deaths: If you do a little research on the FBI's website, and look under violent crime, you will notice a funny trend that Liberals do not want people to know about. During the last 20 years, the population has steadily gone up, the amount of guns in citizens hands have gone up, but violent crimes with guns have been cut in HALF. Yes, you read that right. In Half. Educate yourselves before trying to take my rights away.

Remember, people kill people. Not guns. A gun is a tool. Blaming a gun for killing someone is like saying the drunk driver didn't kill that person, the car did.

• Tolstoy salt lake, UT
March 1, 2013 3:33 p.m.

"no liberals remain here" way to honor "the constitution"

• Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
March 1, 2013 3:16 p.m.

Okay, a round not in the chamber is good. Now, can we add mandatory gun safety training? Then it won't be such a dangerous law!

Better yet would be to just leave the existing law! I'm just not aware of any huge problems with the existing law requiring a change?

• Tators Hyrum, UT
March 1, 2013 3:07 p.m.

To UtahBlueDevil:
Do some of you people even read the articles before writing your comments? This article clearly states that ranchers and other people in southern Utah, who have been using the open carry law for decades, will now be able to wear a jacket or coat over their weapon in the winter without being harassed by authorities for technically breaking existing law. It's mainly just a clarification law and nothing earth shattering. Don't read more into this than there is. It's truly not a big deal from how the law currently is and has been in Utah for quite some time.

To Happy Valley Heretic:
Considering the all the nonsensical issues we're encountering in contemporary society, going back to the 1890's for awhile might be a welcome change. Don't knock it until you've tried it. My great grandfather seemed a whole lot happier than most of the people I encounter nowadays. Anyone who truly dislikes Utah too much the way it is always has the option of moving somewhere else. That's a law we won't be changing anytime soon.

• sparkey Clearfield, UT
March 1, 2013 2:52 p.m.

"no fit"...I have been teaching my kids how to handle a gun since they were 5 years old. One of the reasons accidents happen with kids and guns is the only thing their terrified parents all too often tell them is "not to touch any gun" so their curiosity is piqued, there ingnorance level is high, and the situation is primed for an accident.

With proper training and supervision you don't have to be so scared of guns and your kids will know exactly how to handle them safely thus reducing the chances for accidents.

• UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
March 1, 2013 2:01 p.m.

Perhaps I got this wrong, but the gun can be loaded, but just not have a round chambered? That is supposed to give me warm fuzzies about Jethro packing at Lagooon?

This is solving what problem?

• no fit in SG St.George, Utah
March 1, 2013 1:51 p.m.

Obviously, the next step will be children being taught to handle a gun. After all, with the school districts low on funding, the only answer for protection and safety is children having the means to protect themselves.
Junior Safety Program as no one could ever have imagined!
Mental health programs?
Start with sending the NRA first.

• mohokat Ogden, UT
March 1, 2013 1:15 p.m.

@ Happy What it says is: Welcome to Utah where we honor the Constitution and specifically the Second Amendment.What I would like it to say is welcome to Utah No liberals remain here.

• Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
March 1, 2013 12:49 p.m.

We were almost catching up, now we'll have to put those signs back up that say "Welcome to Utah Set Your Watch Back to 1890. Sad little men.

• lket Bluffdale, UT
March 1, 2013 12:37 p.m.

now is crazy season from the state house making laws that help no one. more guns on the street is not better. more guns more chance of accidents and more chance of arms theft. angers issues being done with fire arms rather then the the bird. it may turn good people into fellons by one bad choice. it does not do anything to democrats, like i think they do stuff like this for. it does things to everyone. in the 60s no one carried firearms and less people where killed by firearms. i felt safe then open carry came out i got one myself to protect me from the other ones that have them. because you dont know what they may do. scary state now.