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Comments about ‘Bill would remove 'Zion curtain' in Utah restaurants that serve alcohol’

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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 27 2013 3:04 p.m. MST

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MurrayMike
Murray, UT

I'm a card carrying (you know what i mean) member of the LDS church. I am also a businessman, although not in the restaurant business. As a businessman, I understand the frustration these owners have, restrictions such as these can have dire effects. Being more tolerant of others and their practices is something all LDS members can improve in, (me included). If we want Utah to grow this may help by allowing owners of restaurants more freedom to operate their business as they choose, remember it is a free country.

Sasha Pachev
Provo, UT

I've seen enough alcohol in the Soviet Union and I stay away as far away from it as I can. If a restaurant serves alcohol at all this is a reason good enough for me to not go there. Guys, if you want America to be like the Soviet Union, keep pouring the booze!

LValfre
CHICAGO, IL

@Sasha Pachev

"I've seen enough alcohol in the Soviet Union and I stay away as far away from it as I can. If a restaurant serves alcohol at all this is a reason good enough for me to not go there. Guys, if you want America to be like the Soviet Union, keep pouring the booze!"

Hah! You will avoid a restaurant if it serves alcohol? Wow .... just wow.

Pouring booze has 0% chance of making the USA like the Soviet Union.

perspicacious
Salt lake city, Utah

Valentine and others who came up with the stupid Zion wall can now be heroes by removing the requirement for mixed drinks and require it be used for prep of fatty unhealthy fried foods!

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

Utah was one of the last states to get meaningful anti-smoking legislation largely because of religious paranoia
It is interesting that religion is once again being used to bash any attempt to discourage drinking – or even underage drinking
Yet setting all religion aside – discouraging alcohol use is good public health policy
Alcohol actually has a higher social and monetary cost than tobacco and there are NO health benefits (even wine benefits can be received without the alcohol)
When New York City posts warnings for pregnant women on liquor bottles - they are considered liberal and progressive; When Utah discourages alcohol they are called bigots - how convenient for the real bigots.
Those who whine about religious people “forcing their lifestyle onto me” seldom consider how they force their lifestyle onto others – after all, they seem to know that only religious freaks or reformed alcoholics want to discourage its use
Perhaps at some point drinking alcohol will become a social stigma (just like smoking), the “tolerant people” will be annoyed by the loud drinker at the party just as much as they are the smoker at the next table, and the tide will turn.

kargirl
Sacramento, CA

JohnJacob, you hit the nail on the head. This mysterious thing happening behind the curtain and appearing in a fancy glass at someone's meal has to be more appealing than seeing someone do what is virtually not much different than putting cherry flavoring in a soda. Wow...but what if both were hidden...each would be more attractive. And if neither were hidden, people would order according to taste. And maybe fewer would order the alcohol since there's so much less fuss made over it. Who knows? I can tell you this--if the space were larger for the lack of Zion's curtain laws, maybe these restaurants involved could add tables, a job or two or more, improve their bottom line, and thus the state economy. Anyone ever think of that?

kargirl
Sacramento, CA

Counter Intelligence, I hate to break your heart, but we're not crazy about loud drinkers and partiers here in the Golden State, either. Or smokers, although I think some go a bit too far trying to tell others what to do where they live...but there's always someone trying to do that anywhere you go, isn't there? But no way can see there being laws against making restaurant drinks in public, and I wouldn't vote for it. I voted for liquor by the drink in VA in the sixties, too, when all our tax dollars went to places that served alcohol at restaurants, since ours didn't. You know, free will is just that, and while we cannot run around forcing moderation on folks, we cannot force our own standards or religious principles on them, either. The LDS folks among us need to remember, that was a big part of the war in Heaven.

Res Novae
Ashburn, VA

@Sasha Pachev,

I've also lived in the former USSR, and I'm sure the experience gave me similar views on the effects of rampant drunkenness. But the US has been drinking alcohol quite liberally for its entire history and so far we're nowhere close to that level. I've been in the presence of alcohol many times without ever feeling a need to sample it myself.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

Kargirl I hate to break your heart, but considering that San Francisco bans soda in schools and West Hollywood won't allow you to smoke in your own apartment (because it might go through the vent); I am not inclined to accept guilt trips from Cal girls. I am disinclined to accept lectures on "free will"; when separating liquor in a restaurant does not stop anyone from getting a drink; it simply makes it less a part of the experience; which is good public health policy. The action is far less onerous than banning cigarette advertisements or forcing tobacco companies to pay for anti-smoking efforts; despite the fact than cigarettes remain legal and for sale (behind the counter). The social costs of alcohol exceed tobacco.

I am not LDS and don't really know much about "the war in heaven"; I am more concerned about religious paranoia here and now. So thank you for proving my point by making this a religious issue instead of a public health issue (I assume you are not a complete hypocrite and you wrote to the New York Times complaining about liberal WASP's forcing you to buy your soda in smaller quantities).

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

George
“ its a small group of very vocal people that control what our state government does.”

Yes; such as you trying to ban reparative therapy for youth; then complaining you are the victim when people push back against your blatant efforts at censorship.

(There isn’t even any research regarding reparative therapy for youth – it was all done with adults and it did not recommend censorship – despite being horribly biased. At least alcohol has plenty of research supporting limiting its use – particularly for youth)

The hypocrisy is spectacular.

@Brave Sir Robin: see my comment to Kargirl.

joseywales
Park City, UT

suzyk1- I'm sorry for the way you think about this. It's tragic that your niece has a problem. However, the vast majority of people who drink, do so responsibly. I've had an alcoholic in my family as well. But the rest of our family that drinks, has never had a problem, and honestly other than perhaps college, hasn't even been drunk. Most of us have a glass of wine with dinner, or a beer after work. Not everyone who drinks, does so to the extremes that are portrayed in the media. Most of the out of control MTV style of drinking comes with immaturity, or having not been around responsible drinkers in their life. I've seen many young drinkers come from families who don't drink, and they are sometimes like kids in a candy store. Having never been taught to drink responsibly, they just become binge drinkers. If you are going to teach abstinence first, the maybe it's a good idea to also teach moderation. In the end, having someone a young person looks up to be honest with them, may make the difference in how they go about all choices.

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