@ CHS 85 So sorry your class wasn't any good. Mine was great. However, I
chose an instructor who, as a profession, shoots, consults and trains people on
firearms. Perhaps that is where the problem lies is in the qualifications of
those allowed to instruct the classes? Research and select a
different instructor. My instructor did show us different handguns but
didn't demo them, that is why I got his card and followed up with him at
the range. (He also offered to teach my kids in-depth gun safety.)
@JoeBlow "Snarky" huh? I think I like that word :). It appears you
are feeling attacked, I am only trying to point out that just because someone
knows several people doesn't mean that is the actual truth/norm. Yes, the law of large numbers indicates that the more people who do something,
the more will be affected by it--the more who ski, the more will get hurt
skiing. Not a good argument against the 2nd Amendment though. Mall
walker--responsible gun owners seldom get their full opinion on the news. If I
had been interviewed you can bet they would have edited out the arrogance part
of my opinion and just showed my opinion agreeing that he has the right to do
it--makes for more sensational news. Guns in the
nightstand--absolutely not an accident just PURE STUPIDITY and negligence. We
already have an avenue to take care of that called civil lawsuit. What benefit
would come from criminal prosecution? Would that threat change what "those
people" do? Nope. You can't legislate intelligence.In all
compromise, I am for requiring a gun handling class to complete your CCP, but
give folks 6 mos or so to complete it.
Even Obama's justice department analysts say his proposed gun legislation
won't work without confiscation or registration. Does that mean that these
will be the next set of proposals?
We need more pro gun laws. We just do. They are a result of common sense.Both of these are good laws and should be passed.
To "atl134" as governments spend more money on debts and pensions, what
do you expect to happen? Look at the story about Detroit. They can't pay
their law enforcement. How long until New York, New Orleans, Denver, San
Francisco, or other large welfare cities are in the same boat?
@Redshirt"As the global financial crisis gets worse, we need the
Constitutional carry laws."What the heck does a recession make
you need a gun for? Are you looking to start a coup?
This is a knee jerk, feel good, solve nothing bill, a total waste of time.The mother of the Newtown shooter bought the guns, taught her son to
shoot even though he had mental problems, so at what point do you think the
mother would have turned her guns into the police to hold for her. Is it the rightful owner of the gun the only one that can turn the gun into
the police or can anyone turn in someone elses gons in? A lot of questions to
As the global financial crisis gets worse, we need the Constitutional carry
laws.Look at what is happening.From NBC News we read
"Visit Detroit at your own risk, police union warns".The
police force is demoralized and underpaid/staffed to maintain order. Who is
left to defend the law abiding families?That is where the rest of
the US will eventually arrive if we keep on our current path. So, why disarm
the law abiding citizens if in the near future they will need those weapons to
defend themselves and their homes?
@Brown"Have you taken the class and know what it consists of? I
have."Me too. It was taught by a State Legislator in Davis
County. The four-hour class consisted of him postulating on how President Obama
is going to take away our guns and rights and countless examples of how guns
save lives. Never once did he talk about how an improperly stored or maintained
weapon did any actual harm. He passed around a pistol for everyone to oohh and
ahhh over. He never once covered how a pistol should be secured when not in
use. He never once covered how a pistol should be carried safely. He never
once explained the dangers of keeping a pistol where children or mentally ill
people would have access - just more evil left-wing propaganda. I
got my CCP after the four hours. It was a waste of time. Luckily I was trained
with weapons by my father growing up and then again in the Army. The class was
a complete joke and an embarrassment to the State that a Legislator would use
this class as a political soapbox instead of an actual teaching experience.
"take that as a statistical certainty"No need for
snarkiness. Just stating my experience. I would agree that this is the
minority."Gun discharges happen, even by people who are safe and
careful" "An accident is just that, an accident."Not
very reassuring. Logic would then dictate that the more weapons carried in
public, the more "accidental" discharges there will be. Personally, I
would classify the vast majority of "accidental" discharges as careless.
To label them as accidents lessons the responsibility.I am happy to
be around trained, responsible gun owners. I agree that the armed
mall walker is arrogant. But, I saw very few gun advocates speak out against
him. What I heard mostly was "It is his legal right. He did nothing wrong.
People need to get used to it."Bedside table guns? Training
will probably not fix it, you are right. But it is NOT AN ACCIDENT when the 6
year old find it and dies. Would you support prosecuting this guy for
involuntary manslaughter? And this stupid person could very well be
carrying his loaded weapon on a crowded train. Doesn't exactly
give one a warm fuzzy feeling.
DN Subscriber 2 said, "Vermont has had Constitutional carry
forever, Alaska for 10 years, Arizona for 3 and Wyoming for 2 years with ZERO
problems any of those places."Are you kidding me? Perhaps
you've heard of the Gabrielle Giffords shooting in Tucson? Not only was
she shot but innocent children were also killed. Now, she is a big advocate for
gun control and the elimination of concealed weapons. You see, when this
affects you, which is tragically too late, then the discussion changes from the
theoretical to the reality. The allowance of concealed weapons is not the
rational, smart or correct thing to do. No...in fact Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming,
and Vermont have it WRONG! Utah would be wise to not follow their same path.
Well JoeBlow I guess if you "know of several" we should all take that
as a statistical certainty…Your Fox news and GOP comments make
me laugh…I could list the MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC comments I've heard
(the incomparable Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pellosi). Perhaps we should all
just all get a shotgun like the wise Joe Biden tells us.Gun
discharges happen, even by people who are safe and careful, that is why
it's called an accident. You are jumping to conclusions to assume they
occurred because people were stupid. An accident is just that, an accident.
Yes, there are some stupid people out there but the majority of gun owners are
extremely responsible. I agree with the walking the mall with your
rifle, once again, the one stupid person in a million. Where is the purpose in
that but to show arrogance and…well I could go on. Loaded gun in the
bedside table? Do you think a class is going to change these people's
habits? These folks are just plain stupid and irresponsible.Criminally responsible??? My response to that: You are a fool if you think
that will change things…
It is frustrating to see how much damage the anti-gun lobby has done to the
general public. KSL host Doug Wright argues that the 2nd amendment rights
should be balanced by the public's right to feel comfortable in public
places. This is false. You don't have a right to feel comfortable with
your jury, another's speech, another's assemblage or another's
religion. Another point - just because the law changes to
"constitutional carry" doesn't mean people will start acting
against social norms. Citizens already have the right to openly carry a rifle
through the mall, but I've yet to see anyone do that. "The
right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Let's not be too willing to give away that right and responsibility.
Actually Brown, I do think that many buy a gun and take a class and never go to
the range.I know of several. Especially after Fox news and the GOP
drills in endlessly that "Obama wants to take your gun"And
Yes, I have taken a class, have a CWP and am no "gun hater""We are all too stupid to figure it out for ourselves, right? NOT!"Yes Brown. Some are too stupid to figure it out. Not all, but many.Just last month (in one day) there were 3 separate gun discharges at 3
different gun shows injuring 5 people. Yes Brown. Some are too stupid. Not
all, but too many.How many have their guns locked up in gun safes?
How many who have kids in the house leave a loaded gun unlocked in their bedside
drawer? I am a gun supporter. But I would come out strongly
against the guy who wants to wander the mall with a rifle. Most gun supports do
not.I believe that gun owners should be held criminally responsible
when a kid gets killed with their gun. It is a huge responsibility that too
many take far too lightly.
JoeBlow please….do you really think people who take the time to take a 4
hour concealed carry class are not going to take the time to learn how to
properly operate and shoot a gun???? They are just going to buy the thing
(which isn't cheap btw) and never go to the range??? I have heard this
"argument" from uninformed gun haters enough! Have you taken the class
and know what it consists of? I have. In my home all of my family knows how
to respect and shoot a gun, I teach my children at a young age the importance of
respecting guns and enroll them in gun safety classes, because I feel it is
important. MY children have an understanding of the purpose of guns because I
have taught them…but hey, let's just pass another law telling
everyone what the government thinks they should learn and then make them learn
it. We are all too stupid to figure it out for ourselves, right? NOT!
We do not need more anti-gun laws. We just don't. They are a result of fear
Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming, and Vermont have it right. You shouldn't have to
"ask permission" from the state for a Constitutional, God given right.
I suspect that not wanting Utah to become a Constitutional carry state has more
to do with the monies the state will lose from people "asking
permission" to lawfully carry than it is about the Constitution and the
right to self defense. Government priorities are always weighted to protect and
enrich the government coffers.
Good guys become bad guys fast by pulling the trigger in anger.
"What is going on here? We can't protect ourselves anymore."Understandable Mr Jefferson. I think that most (even those liberals)
would not have a problem with a gun in ones pack in the wilderness. Most would
even probably think it is wise. Most would get the logic.But, many
(me included) see that as a far cry from having people with a 4 hour gun class
with no range instruction wandering around in public. I see no
problem with guns in the home and in the wilderness. But if you want to go to
the mall and the supermarket, if you want to go into public places, I would like
to know that you, at a minimum, have some level of proficiency with that
weapon.It's not too much to ask.Required classes?
Permits? Background checks? I know. Those can be seen as restrictions on the
second Amendment. And I am OK with that. Call me crazy.As ETT says
above "My experience says it's the person least familiar with weapons
who will do the most harm"
We do not need more pro gun laws. We just don't. They are a result of fear
I actually support the safe harbor thing. I'm surprised something
reasonable on guns was actually proposed in this state.@DN
Subscriber 2"Trust the good guys. The bad guys don't obey any
laws, so it does not matter to them."That's all well and
good, but we don't have the ability to automatically know which
gun-wielders are the good guys and which are the bad guys.
Personal Responsibility: Get a gun safeResponsibility avoidance: I'm
not getting a safe. I need a gun safe harbor. Before you start
crying, yes, proactively taking guns to the safe harbor is responsible. But,
enough with the reliance on state and federal government for every little
problem people. Take care of yourselves! Govern yourselves! If you can afford
a gun, you can afford a safe. If you can afford cell phones, data plans, TV,
and internet, etc., etc., etc. - you can afford a gun safe. Priorities. Instead, our good ole' elected officials are
debating: "Should we pass a safe harbor bill...??????" I
know there are more important issues than HB121. There just must be...
Bad guys carry guns and don't bother with any sort of permit or training,
so the current law does not disarm crazies or crooks.Vermont has had
Constitutional carry forever, Alaska for 10 years, Arizona for 3 and Wyoming for
2 years with ZERO problems any of those places.What we are actually
discussing is the need for a permission slip from the state to exercise the
fundamental right of self defense. If permission slips are needed
for Constitutional rights, then we should demand that citizens be protected from
potentially outrageous, hateful or violence inciting speech or written comments
by requiring all "journalists" and even on line writers to pass spelling
and grammar tests and background checks to ensure they have no dangerous
thoughts. And, of course, we also need to require Bible proficiency, and a
detailed knowledge of theological doctrine of any state allowed religion before
anyone can attend any church.Opponents are the same ones who
predicted mayhem in the streets if concealed carry were allowed in 1995, and
they were wrong then, and wrong again now.Trust the good guys. The
bad guys don't obey any laws, so it does not matter to them.
Having had experience holding someone else's firearms during highly
stressful family situations, I do like the idea of the safe harbor. My
experience says it's the person least familiar with weapons who will do the
most harm, I am in favor of the Constitutional carry bill. The same experience
taught me criminals will carry concealed despite the law, honest citizens will
carry in conformity with it. That seems a bit unbalanced.
Let's hope that "constitutional carry" bill stays where it belongs
-- on hold until it is stone cold dead.