I don't see how this is part of the feminist movement. Every feminist that
I know would actually support the notion that a man could capably handle a
non-traditional role in his family, such as being a stay-at-home parent.If anything, I would say that many of the TV ads that show men as
incompetent in the home are just pandering to the mothers who are at home
watching the ads. The "Peter Griffin" stereotype in television shows, on
the other hand, is simply an exaggeration of some of the behavior that working
men espouse in order to avoid doing extra work at home. Men love to laugh at
themselves. Ever notice that the way men say "I love you" to their
friends is to dish out a well-placed insult?
I have also noticed this disturbing trend in television. It is terrible that
men are lowering their expectations of themselves and women are expecting to
teach their husbands, boyfriends, and brothers how to care for a child. However, in defense of television, there are a few shows that are almost a
throwback to the "Cosby" days. Two of note are "Last Man
Standing" and "Guys With Kids." The former is new Tim Allen comedy
about a man with three daughters, and a grandson. He is shown to be a loving
father who tries to understand his daughters and support them in their
decisions. Some of those decisions he does not like. "Guys With
Kids" shows three sets of friends who show three different family dynamics.
All three are loving fathers who fulfill a great role in their children's
lives who are shown to be equal to their wives in terms of general stupidity.These shows are no where near where they should be in creating an ideal family
dynamic, nor are they as popular as the "Simpsons" and "Family
Guy," but they are a step in the right direction.
ThinkmanProvo, UTHow often do you hear over the pulpit at our church
meetings, regardless of faith, the leaders railing on fathers while at the same
time praising mothers and women in general?Answer: very oftenHow often do you hear over the pulpit at our church meetings, regardless
of faith, the leaders railing on mothers?Answer: never11:29 a.m. Feb. 27, 2013=========== Agreed!I've noticed the same disparity.I've seen friends and
family members walk away from OK marriages simply because they weren't yet
"PERFECT" and could never live up to all the unreal expectations.Ward Cleaver had a June Cleaver.But somehow -- some women
expect the Ward Cleaver to their endless nagging and henpicking as being A-OK
I don't let my kids watch much TV. Show like I-Carly (not sure if it is
still around) and others are just disturbing! I think most of the shows (for
kids and adults) dumb down both mom and dad and devalue the nuclear family.
re: IronhideIts okay for conservatives to proactively engage in
histrionics and amateur theatrics but a little sarcasm is uncalled for?
REALLY!?"So you're saying that the portrayal of dumb
dad's isn't real and doesn't impact the way society stereotypes
dads?"... "There are men who fit the sterotype sitcoms portray"Art imitates life. Homer Simpson & Peter Griffin are based on a
person or several individuals. I have yet to see their actual flesh and blood
doppelganger. Let me know when you do, okay?
Ernest T and Hank,So you're saying that the portrayal of dumb
dad's isn't real and doesn't impact the way society sterotypes
dads? While I agree that some conservatives are whiny and picked on, speaking
for an entire movement that is not your own is weak and only discredits your
comments. There are men who fit the sterotype sitcoms portray. But
as usual, there are those who take the minority of any group and rap up an
entire race, gender, religion, political party, movement, into one as if they
all behave that way, all believe that way, all support and standardize the
expressions of the extremists. Can we grow up A LOT please? Immaturity and
lack of emotional control is rampid among opinions. Have an opinion. Share an
opinion. But learn to deal with other opinions without condescension, arrogance,
biting sarcasm and disrespect. Then maybe someone would care to listen.
"I remain optimistic that family still has more influence than media,"
Kelly said.Sadly, the author appears to not understand that only
about 50% of American youth live in a traditional "family", the other
half is "the New Normal", and a large percentage of both groups spend
FAR more time in touch with peers in person or via social media than with any
real human role model outside their own age group.
Let me point the discussion back to where it started. Men need to be men:
providers, defenders, head of the household who honor and respect their wives.
TV and movies portray men as the article says, and it gives some the excuse they
need to slack off. Back when, a man needed to prove himself or be thought by
other men to be unworthy. Now, there is no incentive to prove oneself since no
pride or honor is at stake. That has been taken away by the modern thought of
"men are not needed". Well,pop culture addicted world, you got what you
wished for. Men get the message that they aren't expected to do anything
but slack off, so that's what they do. They don't fulfill roles as
fathers, husbands and gentlemen because it isn't in style anymore. Wonder
why men don't step up? There's your answer....and yes, the LDS Church
leaders have taken men to task for not doing what they are supposed to do.
General Priesthood Meeting is often the arena where it happens.Step
up to the plate men!!!
re: Ernest T 2/27Agreed. What would social conservatives
be w/o the need to go on a Don Quixote like crusade? answer: tolerable
re: John20000 1:03 p.m. Feb. 27If there is such a thing as the
*typical* American Family; it lies somewhere between the Bundy's &
Huxtable's... but that is just my opinionTV is entertainment
& art imitating life. People who believe the media is engaged in some kind
of social engineering need to get a life.
When I read articles like this, I wonder what world the Dnews is living in. I
have noticed that people of a certain political persuasion have the need to
invent a boogy man in order to keep that persecution complex going.This
article is the perfect example of that
@ ThinkmanI am a woman in my late years and I cannot ever remember hearing
a leader railing on the men over the pulpit. I have heard of talks where the
leaders are concerned about too many fathers leaving the home or working too
many hours. I think it was their opinion that they were also needed in the home
to be fathers.As far as mothers go - you may not hear it so much,
but what do you think most of our RS lessons are about? To teach us to be better
wife's and mothers and sometimes the women can be really hard on themselves
in there.I am SO THANKFUL that I had a great father! He was not
perfect, but I always knew that he loved me and was grateful that I was his
daughter. Fathers are so important to the home! I know--- being a divorced
woman, just how much the father is needed in the home for so many different
reasons. God bless you Honorable Fathers! Wish there were more of you out there.
Great article! I agree with everything you said. Keep up the good work!
As a husband, I don't particularly like the way TV fathers are portrayed,
but remember that successful TV shows like "The Simpsons" "Everybody
Loves Raymond" and "Family Guy" are so much more than just everyone
sitting around, watching Dad make a fool of himself. I remember my
mother-in-law telling me once how she hated the character of Marie on
"Everybody Loves Raymond" because it portrays mothers-in-law and
grandmothers as excessivley nosy, critical and selfish. The
beginning of the article talked about how the focus group in question did not
ever have a teenage boy babysit for them, but I think little of this has to do
with the portrayal of dads on TV. Often its more the stereotype that feeding and
taking care of little kids is unmanly and shows weakness. Recently
at the hotel I work at, a mom and dad were busy grabbing their luggage and I
found myself chatting with the two year old girl for a few minutes. When the
parents got back the mother said, "I'm surprised you had the patience
to deal with her." I replied, "I have six younger
Back when I was a kid...... oh wait it was no different. seriously look at some
of the old movies from the 20's and 30's this is nothing new other
then we have gotten old and nostalgic just like our parents did and their
parents before them. the world really is not falling apart.
It's really sad with the way that Dads are treated, especially in custody
It's extremely simple: stupid people are funny to watch, and most men
don't take offense at seeing their gender portrayed as stupid. Hence, men
on TV tend to be stupid.
I miss Robert Young and Fred MacMurray.
@m.g. scottWhat a paranoid and stressful world you must live in. Not
everything is a conspiracy theory you know. Try coming back to reality.
This leads to a familiar question about whether popular culture is forming
attitudes about gender roles or reflecting what is already in society. Those who study media find it alarming how women are portrayed - particularly
in commercials. Does this create expectations for the workplace? I frequently
hear the complaint that men only need to show they are qualified when they apply
for work, while women feel they have to demonstrate that they are good-looking
first and foremost.It also seems that kids in sitcoms are
wisecracking adorable children with few real problems. Does this set up false
expectations?We should also keep in mind that these stereotypes
thrive because they are popular. So why do we WANT dads to act like dunderheads
in popular culture? That is the real question here.
@GadflyWhen did post-feminism happen? Man bad/woman victim is an
ongoing theme of left wing politics: i.e. deliberately manipulating the
"violence against women act" to make it partisan (after two decades of
bi-partisan support) so that Democrats can forward a phony "war on
women" meme (When feminists demand equality, while simultaneously
feigning victimhood when not receiving preference - instead of grasping the
obvious fact that men and women are NOT the same, and cannot fairly be treated
the same - they become the bully they claim to despise)Demonizing men has
always been a byproduct of feminist dogma - one cannot gain the
passive/aggressive power of victimhood without having a perpetrator to blame -
and if feminists need more power; it is enticing to move beyond legitimate
concerns and start making up reasons to be a faux victim in order to increase
that power.Fortunately; Feminists do not represent all women any more than
Homer Simpson represents all men
How about a portrayal of the dad that loves his wife and children, and has done
everything that he knows to be right, but works at a dead end job full of
stress, only to come home from work each day to a house that is qualified for
FEMA, and does his own car repairs, volunteers to coach Little League, and has
hardly any time for himself. That wouldn't sell in Hollywood.
This is primarily used for comedy, which has always been done. The reason that
it works is because people know that fathers are important, but make mistakes
like everyone else. People were tired of the perfect family being portrayed on
TV. Instead of the same boring portrayal of dad as the all knowing figure in the
family (which any parent will tell you that they do NOT in fact have all of the
answers), they are portrayed as what not to be like. Do you really think that
Homer Simpson is portrayed as the ideal man? Quite the opposite. As someone else
pointed out, some people are just intelligent enough to know that TV is for
entertainment, not to build your family around the image. On a
different note, the sentiment found in this article is one that I find
disturbing in our society. The most privileged people in our society (white
males) crying foul that they no longer have the advantages that they once did.
"Why can't it be like it used to be?" Because it used to be
horrible for anyone other than white males.
It's a blessing for children to have an active positive male role model in
their lives. (I grew up in a household where Dad was VERY busy working long
hours, but I loved when he was home, and in retrospect it's amazing how
much of his "left-over" time was spent in his family duties. None of us
ever felt neglected.)It's indeed a sobering thought to consider
that some kids get their views of fatherhood, masculinity, etc. from TV and
movie characters. But that's probably the harsh reality. (Likewise there
are certainly plenty of FEMALE characters on TV and in the movies, that I hope
my daughters and granddaughters wouldn't select as role models!)It reinforces the doctrine that children are most likely to do best when
raised by both a father and mother!
"The Cosby Show" had a pretty good model of a good marriage and a
capable dad, but that show was exceptional in lots of ways.
Every now and again, I'll remind my kids, spouse, or anyone else to whom it
is necessary that I am capable of and willing to do many things, albeit almost
always differently. I run a business and manage households in 2 nations.
I'm a man; every now and again I do something silly or stupid (usually
deliberately). But I get stuff done, and I get results.
To "Thinkman" you are wrong. Go back to the general confrences of the
LDS church. Their have been many talks given reminding women of their duties,
and some have even go so far as to remind them to treat their husbands kindly.
I am a feminist. I will fight HARD for equal rights and opportunities for both
men and women. Portraying men as helpless idiots without women is just as wrong
as portraying a woman as a helpless idiot without a man. I suppose
some feminists might be interested in putting men down, but this feminist will
never be interested in something so harmful. I hope we as a society make some
changes, and we support ALL people and respect ALL people.
The article misleads by saying "idealized white American family" The families on TV were white, but they represented an idealized American
family, period.When Bill Cosby's show aired, was he portraying
himself as a "white family". Using "white" in the
sentence shows bias. Why does the reporter think black families aren't
like those potrayed on Leave it to Beaver? Racist stereotypes? Indoctrinated
@BleedCougarBlue - thanks for backing me up on my feminist movement comment.Proves that Utes and Cougars can think alike!
Most of the Dads I've known, let's say over 50%, are useless and lazy
at home. They can't or won't fix things. Operating a
"skill saw" is as no different than brain surgery and hanging sheetrock
is simply out of the question.I know and have spent a lot of time with
very capable men. Most of them are constantly helping "neighbors" who
are clueless.I personally think the media takes a pretty "soft"
approach to how most husbands/fathers behave in their homes. They me sensation
at their temporal positions, wonderful obedient church goers but heaven forbid
they pick up a hammer, change the filter on the lawn mover or remove a broken
This is part of the feminist movement.On a side note, would I rather be
compared to Tim Allen, or Steve jobs?I will take Tim all day.
I used to see women with bumperstickers on their cars which said "A woman
without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." I found it interesting
that nearly all of those women were upper middle class and white. On the other
hand, try telling that to inner-city teenagers who get involved in gangs, drugs,
crime, and drop out of school because, all to often, they do not have an active
male role model in their lives. I was a single father, raising my children
alone for some 18 years. I was able to give them an example of a purposeful,
constructive life. To a large extent, this example has "rubbed off" on
How often do you hear over the pulpit at our church meetings, regardless of
faith, the leaders railing on fathers while at the same time praising mothers
and women in general?Answer: very oftenHow often do you
hear over the pulpit at our church meetings, regardless of faith, the leaders
railing on mothers?Answer: never
Say No to BOGood point.
Now let's consider some other great male role models from the "Golden
Age" of television. How about Ralph Kramden, the wife abuser. (You are going
to the moon Alice he says with clenched fist). Tony Nelson (How did anyone that
dumb ever get to be a major?) The same for Darren Stevens. (He became a top
notch advertising executive despite his mental inadequacy) Or Gomez Addams and
Herman Munster??? OK, those two aren't fair examples. They are just being
played outrageously for comic effect. But isn't that what all of them were
doing? There were dumb dads before feminism and the stereotype got worse after
but it was all for comic effect. I am not saying that it is good. But I am
concerned when narrow minded people choose to ignore all sides of the story,
especially when they center on one stereotype (Dan Conner is a good example) and
forget the dysfunctional members of the rest of the family (Roseanne). Why does
BleedCougarBlue completely ignore my comment about the greater problem of the
dysfunctional family stereotype?
I see politics in just about everything, (even the Academy Awards believe it or
not), and this "useless dad" business is todays liberal politics called
"The New Normal". It is known that single women and single moms are
much more likely to be Democrat. Married women much less so. Therefore,
married women and intact families are a threat to the Democrat Party.
Hollywood, one of the Democrats major media arms, helps to promote the single
woman and mom as being the best way to go. Like I said, I see politics in
@BleedCougarBlueActually, if you watch June she was as shrewd as they
come. She got what she wanted. Eddy Haskel didn't fool her one bit. Ward
did all the dirty work.That's far from being a dumb blonde.
Oh Boo-hoo. My self esteem is shattered because some sitcoms portray
Husbands/Fathers as Buffoons. NOT !. I as kid in the 60's and 70's we
had all sorts of positive Father figures on T.V. To name a few we had Fred
MacMurray in "My Three Sons", We had Ben Cartwright on Bonanza. Gomez
Addams in the Addams Family; He really did love his Mortica, didn't he?
Ozzie and Harriet, never figured out what Ozzie did for a living. The Waltons.
Apparently, the author has low regard for T.V. viewers in that we
can't seem to distinguish between comedies and dramas or real-life for that
matter. Would that more of us had Fathers like J.R. Ewing. America's Oil
problem would have been minimized and in that perfect world not had two wars
that our sons and daughters had to bleed in.
So BleedCougarBlue, you certainly seem to be able to read things that I
didn't write. I never said all those things were bad. I just think June
Cleaver was capable of that and more. Where would I be? Actually my mother was
somewhat of a feminist before anyone ever hear of feminism. She knew her mind
and spoke out on public issues whenever she felt like it no matter how many men,
including my father, disagreed. She voted according to her choice. She was
Democrat of all things, even though she married a Republican. She also
sacrificed her health to give birth to my brother and me. She kept a clean
house, usually with little help from her all male family. She gave us all
unconditional love. She also worked outside the home to help support us when the
Vietnamese War took her husband away and split the family income between two
countries every other year. She stood by her husband for 52 years before her
death. Yes, where would I be without such a great example of womanhood.
I have noticed the portrayal of men on television is horrible, this is why I
haven't watched a sitcom in decades. Why can't men be portrayed more
like the Charles Ingall's type: tough, caring, and as important to the
family as his wife Caroline. Men and women each play an important role in a
well functioning family. As a teacher, for the most part, the homes where
there are two parents who love their children and take good care of them, bring
forth the best students in the classroom. A father who is active in his
child's life, actually is a huge advantage in school. Sure moms make sure
the child's "to do" list is done (i.e. homework,reading logs,
etc.); however, in my experience it is the dad that ensures proper behavior! As a wife of an wonderful man, I feel blessed everyday to work side by side
with such a humble,caring,leader of our home. Who my children feel is a force
to be reckoned with, instead of the dufus dads often found on the T.V. screen.
This is definitely a Disney issue - I don't know how many movies and TV
shows that Disney produces have either no dad in the house, or a widower that
re-marries poorly, or the dad is clueless about life and family. The other thing
that grinds me is the incessant laugh track for every line spoken on a
Disney's kid show - it's like everything the actors say is
"Funny", every single line... Until the reality of the dilemma of
single-parent families is addressed, our society as a whole will suffer. Adults
need to be prepared for unselfish lifestyles BEFORE they get married and become
parents. And fathers need to stick around to be a positive role model for their
children, and mothers need to be partners with their husbands and work together
in meaningful roles that each family circumstance requires through the various
and different periods throughout their lives. This is not to say that single
parents are "bad", but their is an epidemic of children growing up in
single-parent homes and 40% of babies are born to unwed mothers. This is a core
family emergency, and dumbing down the role of "Father" doesn't
@ Gadfly -So June Cleaver was presented as being "good for
nothing" except having babies and keeping the home clean?First,
where would we be without women who have babies? Indeed, where would YOU be?Second, what's wrong or bad about keeping a house clean? YOU may
choose to live in a filthy home but I'll make sure I don't come and
visit you.Third, what about the unconditional love that her
character showered on her children? Gues that doesn't count for anything,
huh?And, yes, the 'dumbed-down' dad actually IS a result
of the feminist movement. The feminist movement was ALL about 'women are
strong and don't need a man because men have nothing to contribute that we
need'. Did you catch that?...'men have nothing that we
need' and therefore by default, are judged to be clueless idiots.
Many of the stereotypes are due to a curse we brought on ourselves. I know a lot of men who exploit the stereotype that they cannot take care of
their own children, and go off to play basketball, pursue hobbies, or golf on
the weekends, without a second thought about what the rest of the family is
doing. That's mom's job. Then they wonder why mom's
upset. At church, I often volunteer to watch kids at the nursery for
my wife when there's a Relief Society activity, and often moms come with
their kids, even though I know the husband is home. Somehow the husband has
trained his wife that he cannot be entrusted to care for the kids so she takes
them to a nursery over their own dad.It's not a death sentence
to watch your own kids--or even the kids of another person. But that's
another evil. Men aren't trusted to watch children alone in the church,
because of the potential molestation threat... kinda sad that we think of a man
as just as likely to molest a child as care for it.
I agree basically with everything except that it is a direct result of the
feminist movement. ImaUteFan should have read a bit closer and noticed that
several of the positive images mentioned in the article were post-feminism. the
real problem that I see though isn't just that dads are seen as dumb but
that families in general are now being presented as increasingly dysfunctional.
The dumb dad image was just the beginning. To be fair though, while Ward
Cleaver was the perfect dad, what about June Cleaver. She was presented, like
all housewives in the early days oof television, as being good for nothing
except having babies and keeping house. Some, like Lucille Ball and Connie
Stevens, were seen as out and out airheads. In the case of comedies with
positive parent images, they were usually single parents like Eddie's
Father or Dianah. Perhaps this explains the turnabout as women have tried to
reassert their value in society. What we truly need are good shows that present
a realistic if not always ideal image of men and women as mature adults who can
still be funny.
Disney Dads, if they exist, are mostly clueless or bumbling. And don't
forget that even before many of the teevee series the kids book series Berstein
Bears... the dad was always the one who never followed his own rules.
Article quote: "It's not hard to find. If you watch TV, then
you've most likely witnessed the portrayal of the modern-day husband and
father as lazy, incompetent and stupid."Man, that is so true!I make danged sure my kids know my successes, abilities and abilities.
No, not to brag, but to make sure my kids know I'm not a moron of a dad
like they so often see portrayedon TV. One of the ways I make sure my
kids treat me with respect is I don't let them call me (or their mom)
"guys". It slips out from them from time to time.Nope."Guys" is a term used when one is speaking to their peers. I
love my kids but I am not a "peer", I am their dad.I'm
an adult with a child who is 20 years old and I STILL don't call my mom and
dad "guys" either in their presence or when I'm away from them.Parents deserve our respect. Period.
As a father or four, I have felt this way for a long time. Just a continuing
march from the Feminist side that fathers are optional.
A direct result of the Feminist movement. Very sad indeed.
Substance. The guy that is gone to work to bring home the bread. The guy who is
gone because the car needs repair. the guy that is gone to fix the sink or
something that is broke. the guy that is tired sitting on the couch trying to
get all the stuff at work off his mind. The guy that has the substance in
himself to do his best every day and only he knows what it took. When the only
answer that you get from him is fine. That's because that's what it is
We all do it. Like I tell my grown daughters, "Honor and respect your
husbands, but only if they are following the Lord."Now where did I
learn that?Of course, she gets to decide when his judgment is righteous.