Most facilities have years of use left
The promoter claim a $20 Billion economic benefit to Utah by developing the 600
acresprison site. Kennecott Copper mine is a $1 Billion dollar company.
It is impossible for 600 acres to be equal to 20 Kennecott's.There are plenty of other 600 acre sites in Salt Lake and Utah County to
develop without moving the prison.We don't want to become
congested like Denver. Spread the development around. The Point of the
Mountain is already congested.Leave the prison where it is. Give
the developers some other 600 acres with the same tax perks. Development is
good. There are other good locations to develop.
The prison should be moved further away from hospitals and courthouses (Places
prisoners rarely need to go). This way they will require more transportation
and fuel costs - creating jobs. Shovel ready jobs. Brilliant. I'm glad we've elected good politicians who spend their days
dreaming up ways to spend our money and take care of their buddies. There is
nothing better than a solution in search of a problem.If anyone
needs to be furloughed, it's politicians.Tax money is sacred.
It should be treated that way. Politicians should be finding ways to save the
tax payers money, create value, and enforce the laws on the books - not the
opposite.When CEO's don't perform, they get canned - as
they should. When politicians don't perform, they get re-elected.
I suspect the "move the prison" idea was generated by just a few big
shots, who either are, or have been, state legislators, (or their golfing
buddies.)Most of us understand that the RINO's on Utah's
capital hill couldn't care less about their constituents. They sheeple
seem to re-elect them no matter what they do.Problem is; the
"move the prison" idea will turn out to be a much more expensive debacle
than they have ever saddled the state taxpayers with!
Spot on comments so far, there is no economic benefit or security risk for the
relocation of our prison. Some say its overcrowded, but changing some blue laws
and deportations we could unload half the prison population to MEXICO and S
America where they come from. Especially in drug related victimless crimes.
Sending them back to country of origin is worse penalty than putting them in the
luxurious accommodations of Hotel Utah Prison.With the threat of
state funding losses it would not be wise to put the public at more financial
tax risk and development risk on land deemed not safe for development or homes
or commercial use by the USGS. Government greed allowed development on
vulnerable beach property in West Jordan and South Jordan expansion and the home
owners are now finding out why the USGS had also condemned the unstable land
from homes and commercial development.Its very unlikely any
developers will foot the bill to relocate the prison so the state must use
caution and common sense financial consideration before any more major spending
If the money supply were infinite, or at least not so tight, then move it to
whereever. Given the situation as it is, let land developers pay for the move if
they feel its worth it.
Politicians just lining there pockets with these deals.
Stop reporting the Draper Mayor. He is only serving his interests not the
interests of the State. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The problem
of moving prison is when we go to find the two birds or even one they will be
gone. They claim high tech wants to come to Utah. Then why hasn't the land
around Adobe been sold? Because it's a wish and dream not a truth.
A stupid, unnecessary, and expensive plan borne of self interests and likely
Only if the developers who covet that land agree to pay the full cost of moving
the prison.Otherwise it's just more Republican Socialism.Socialize expenses, Privatize profits.
The government of the United States of America has been closing military bases
and selling the land for approximately 40 years and the government hasn't
made a fortune out of those sales and benefits. Some developers have made
money. Some of those bases were on pristine land in great or fabulous
locations. It has not changed the economy of those places but the rich got
richer in the process, either those that procured the land or the developers
that took over. Some of those bases, since they were military bases were not
perfect locations. Places like the Presidio and San Diego may have been perfect
places due to weather or location but they were few and far between.The Point of the Mountain prison has advantages for prisoners and their
families to be closer to each other. We have county jails that are newer and
even though small benefit the rural areas with jobs and supplemental jobs. It
provides separation for those offenders that need separation from other
prisoners. The Gunnison prison is a prime central area for an expanded prison,
separate from county jails. Tooele is close to Nevada to help relieve
Nevada's prisons, money.
If the estimate of $600 million to move the prison, a $20 million annual savings
in maintenance and $140 million for the land is accurate then it would take 23
years for the taxpayer to break even. It would take longer if the land is sold
for less than $140 million.Will there will be additional costs if more
prison personnel are needed to replace volunteers unwilling to travel to the new
site?40,000 jobs -- are those jobs that would be created only if they were
in Draper or are they jobs that would be created somewhere else in Utah? How
many of those 40,000 are already somewhere else in Utah but would just be moved
to Draper?Red Smith has a point -- I am very skeptical about the $20
billion in economic benefit.Finally, I am concerned that this proposal to
move the prison is being railroaded through the legislature. Will the
legislature make a thoughtful and in-depth review of the proposal or will they
just hand-off the decision to a commission largely composed of representatives
of those who will benefit from the move -- and I don't mean the taxpayer.
The last paragraph said it all. Draper wants more money.
Land developers and county commissioners of the past have their process in order
for money and dollars. If high ranking officers want to have money for
everything they do for their constituents, "Where is the Money, if you want
me to help you?" Money may not be the root of all evil, but it is the route
of the evil for some of elected officials that want gain for their efforts.
When we lived in Illinois for 9 years, a state that has been rampant with the
effects of bribes and offers to public officials and many of those high ranking
people spending time in jails and out of office, it seems as if people would
learn. However, they fall into the same process as they are smarter than those
other guys that got caught. I believe there are plenty that can talk around in
circles and appear to be doing the right thing. You can choose to
be happy without being rich. I have lived in plenty of poor countries where the
people were happy and glad to be alive, each day. They may have lived in a
place that didn't have freedoms as we do nor prosper.
There is no reason aside from the greed of a few to move the prison, true the
main building from 1950 needs to be replaced. The rest of the campus has 25-35
years of useful life left. All of the studies have suggested the ground under it
will not cover the costs to rebuild it elsewhere. Hence the sham Independant
Commission with authority to tax issued bonds and enter contracts with little or
no oversight. And the incentives to a "for profit" prison corporation to
bid on it. Ahh a shred of truth, the Prison will be sold, Private
Providers will build new facilities with the guarantee the state will keep them
filled and everyone will be happy, except the taxpayer who is on the hook for it
This idea doesn't pass the "smell test".If the
legislators want to even consider this goofy idea they may want to put off any
sort of ethics reform - until AFTER they've lined their pockets.That way they can be "innocent of any wrongdoing". (snicker, snicker)
The deal has been done. The pockets have been lined. The prison is going to be
moved to open up the land for the backroom dealers.The heck with the employees
who wil have to relocate or lose their jobs. The heck with the families who
cannot travel far to visit and encourage their loved ones. The heck with the tax
payer stuck with footing the bill. This is what happens when a state has, what
is in essence,a one-party system.The elected folks in power can do
whatever they want to do. They know that they will get away with it-unless they
leave an e-mail trail and/or meet with dubious characters in doughnut shops. If
things get too hot they clamor for reform until the heat dissipates and
everything goes back to their version of normal.Our state motto
should be "Where is my slice?"
My2Cents: I generally agree with you. BUT it would be irresponsible for our
state to send a bulk of illegal alien prison inmates back to their home nations.
While you view this as a punishment, in reality they would be back in our
neighborhoods within a week. You'd have murderers and rapists never serving
any time or punishment for their horrendous acts. How many people do you think
are serving time for drug-related crimes (alone) at the prison? I'll give
you a hint, the prison reports 4%. That'd make some room, but it's
negligible. Doesn't seem like space constraints are driving this
conversation anyway.JWB: The county jail program is not a solution.
Do you really think there are 7,000 beds available in the counties? And do you
really think the counties, which have proven inadequate during various escapes
(Daggett, Uintah, Garfield, Weber, the list goes on)...are capable of housing
actual dangerous criminals? As a taxpayer and resident, I'm good with the
counties taking petty criminals. But don't toss a massive dump of state
inmates and felons in there. The counties (and all of us) would be the losers.
I am concerned about the lack of air conditioning. Those poor inmates
shouldn't be subjected to such cruel and unusual punishment.Wait a
minute. I don't have A/C. I've got a swamp cooler that I can't
afford to run all summer.
The rush to pass the prison relocation legislation makes the financial
projections suspect. If the projections were legitimate, the legislature would
make them available for public comment and analysis. Experience teaches us this
is just another scam to fleece the taxpayers for the benefit of a few greedy
NO NO NO NO NO NO NOFive years ago, the economics of moving the jail were
found to be wanting. They are still wanting.There are plenty of areas
available now for new job creation, both vacant land and vacant buildings.Private jails are rampant with scandals. How can you pull out money for profit
without cutting services,endangering the inmates and the public, eliminating
employee health and retirement? (then these employees look to the government for
help)Longer commutes equals more air pollution, which is just what we
don't need in this valley.The loss of highly qualified volunteers
would be huge in terms of money and expertise. Their help prepares inmates to
enter the workforce after their release, not return to crime and prison.Family needs access to support inmates before and after their release.Stop wasting money and time, get the legislature back to doing their job, and
let the private sector do theirs.Draper Mayor - GIVE IT UP!
A question that I havent seen asked is how much pollution does the prison add or
subtract from the pollution problem in the bowl.Could the prisioners be
trained to work in the hi tech industries that would have to build around it if
not allowed to build through it.
If the prison is moved too far away, I guarantee you over 2/3 of the current
guards will quit or retire. I know, I am one. The many people who volunteer
will no longer, since the prison will be too far away. Where are these money
projections coming from? Are they from some Privately run prison company that
wants to take over the prison system here in Utah by saying how much money can
be saved? Look at the prison escapes in other states. Privately run prisons,
do we what this here in Utah?
Put it to the people of the State for a Vote. If it passes then assign realors
from St. george, Delta and Tremonton to have the sales. That would help the
smaller communites and and fairness to the process. No one from Salt Lake or
Utah conunt should be invloved with the sale or profit in any form. No business
associate or family member of any Gov. official, past committees or Draper
should be allowed to participate with any sales or profit.
It is all about money and who gets most of it into his pocket. The relocation
of the old territorial prison brought speculators from all quarters wanting to
develop it for themselves.The site was saved by a Sugar House
Merchant who rallied support to preserve the site as a park and school site. A
look back at history and what can be done by a few forward looking citizens
willing to fight the big money establishment.
Okay let's see if I understand this - it would cost $600 mil to move the
prison, and a new prison would save $20 mil to maintain (over how many years?),
then we could sell the current 690 acres for $202,898 per acre (in Draper,
really?). Then POM site would create 40,000 jobs (from whom?), and bring in $20
bil (over how long?). Sorry I did not see a cost for a new prisonFortunately I don't know about the prison system, do the inmates pay any
costs to be there?Then we also have many schools In our state older than
62 years and with a much better purpose yet the legislature doesn't even
want to spend money to find out their structural needs.
With all the hype about crime being at record lows maybe we don't need it.
Just let the current batch of inmates attrition out.What? The data does
not track with the reality? Hmmm.
My house is the same age as the prison and therefore needs replacing, how do I
get my property on such a replacement list. If I gotta live in my 'out of
date' ol' place, the prison does too! I could also use a new sofa.
And who benefits with moving the Prison ? Not the Tax Payer, however the Fat
Cats - Politicians , Developers , Bankers , Public Officials certainly will.By the Way - All Prisons and County Jails - Need to be turned into farms
, factories , labor support services etc , as Tax Payers can no longer afford to
pay for the feeding , clothing , health care , dental care , shoes , cable tv ,
and the basic running of day to day operations of prisons and jails - So let
these criminals start learning that do a stupid criminal offense and guess what
- Ya Gotta Pay Your Way - and that's the way it should be
@1conservativeYou're right on the mark. I'll even name
names. His name is Al Mansell, as in Mansell Reality, also as in former Senate
President Al Mansell. When this idea came up a couple of years ago, Mansell
tried to get the legislature to sneak a bill through that would eliminate some
of the bidding processes. I think the press got on it, and it disappeared.The idea of having the prison be in some remote area is naturally
appealing, as we feel somehow safer if the inmates are far away. It is
important to remember, that a prison requires a huge support system of
transportation, medical, prison programs, guards and other employees, and so on.
The infrastructure has to be in place, and there has to be a community for the
employees to live. That means schools, churches, stores, gas stations, and so
on.Building a prison in a remote area is a huge and expensive
undertaking. Creating all the necessary infrastructure can create a lot of
jobs. However, there are still the transportation and medical expenses that will
be ongoing, and that do not create jobs or generate revenue.
This article clearly indicated that the useful life of the prison in most
areasis 25-30 years. Those areas that need to be replaced could be razed
and replaced.Moving the prison is possibly the worst idea elected leaders
have concocted in decades.If this select committee is able to bond Utah
Taxpayers there needs to be a way tolegally demand total accountabliltiy
and stop the process. The comments are spot on it is something that needs to be
stopped. Citizen input needs to happen, The claim of 40,000 jobs and $40 billion
benefit really borders on fantasy and deceit. Citizens of Utah are being
takenfor complete fools and a taxpayer rebellion would certainly be in
Get ready for the new Sincrete fiasco. The State tried Sincrete o fix he
freeways and had to pay over double what they planned as Sincrete was a huge
failure. The prison move will be the same. It will make some people rich but
cost us he citizens millions of dollars. And yes we will have to pay for it.
There are ways to move the prison closer to where the criminals are in the
state, and build in an area currently not being used for much other than
criminal activity. Move the prison to downtown Ogden. The city's main strip
is full of empty office buildings. There are abandoned warehouses, parking
garages, factories, all prime locations for a new place. And the majority of
prisoners come either from there, or West Valley. Think
"Win-Win"... It's time the prison moved... it's way too close
to Provo, which we all know does not produce criminals.