Go Big Blue,Would that be the MWC? I'm confused I thought we
were talking about the MWC not the WMC conference. But then again you know
better then I what conference the Aggies are going into. I know what we are
talking about but I'm not sure you do. And if you want to talk about
football USU was a very low ranking top 25 team. Not high enough to be taken
@TroyTownThis Ute fan DIDN'T think Utah was going to a Rose
Bowl all of a sudden with a PAC 12 invite. Still being optimistic and hopeful is
not delusional. Your Arizona example is a legitimate comparison in my eyes
though. Still, your dislike for Utah and their chances (or lack thereof) in
making a Rose Bowl based on performance in the WAC/MWC from 1962-2010 is NOT the
way to approach this argument. Utah was awful for so long, but the
program, facilities, and the market (recruiting wise) is way up from the dog
days. Utah's program the last 20 years has been getting better and has
accomplished more than some BYU fans want to realize. Utah did win conference
Championships outright in 2003, 2004 and 2008 (not one championship). They also
had some co-championships (the 1994 team was 10-2 and won the Freedom Bowl).Utah has beaten BYU in 13 of the last 20 years. And from 2000-2010, Utah
beat more BCS teams than any other non AQ program (including Boise State, BYU
and TCU). Now Utah plays these schools week in and week out and is being
Stang, let the big boys discuss the WMC. The article is about basketball and
Boise has never been a dominate basketball school. When it comes to football
both USU and San Jose finished the season in the top 25. The MWC will be a
great conference for both hoops and the grid iron.
Next year though what will become of the MWC? The only thing they have going
for them is BSU. You can't deny that; If it weren't for that school
after Utah and BYU left the MWC would've turned into what the WAC is now.
the exact same thing can be said of you also Spokane,i have noticed that you
are on this thread constantly going off topic as well ,along with about 35
other BYU haters ,you and all the others on here constantly talk trash on BYU
threads or any BYU article for that matter,so i think before you say anything
about BYU any poster that you take a good look at yourself also
trucoug,8 of 11 and 54-10 are not flukes... that is flat out
domination.Utah does not measure success based on beating BYU. My
point to Duckhunter was that if BYU was going to make it to a Rose Bown before
Utah they better learn how to beat the Utes first. Try reading that post again
and check yourself for comprehension.
Stang08, I personally believe the B1G is the best basketball conference based on
the eye test, but this is the RPI, which is the objective standard for college
basketball. But subjectively, the argument can still definitely be made that the
MWC is the best. The Big East is in the discussion as well, but not the ACC this
year. Regardless, the MWC has shown to be very good this year, and right now is
rated objectively as the #1 conference, and your personal bias against anything
associated with USU can't refute that.
StGtoSLC,So what would top conference for basketball be? I still
say it isn't the MWC. Maybe the ACC or the Big10?
As much as I would love to go back to the MWC...Holmoe is too prideful to ever
do that. :(
@truecoug1"BYU has won 20 games and will go on to the postseason in
some fashion. "I'm not sure that's actually determined
@Duckhunter"Nothing utah has done, or is doing, indicates they are
"still growing back to competitiveness". Frankly they look bad."Utah has only been blown out a couple times this year. Last year it
seemed like they were blown out every other game.
Stang08, you do realize what sport the article is talking about, right? And why
they said the MWC is "tops in the country?" Or did you bother reading?
SEC is definitely not tops in basketball. This year they are by far the worst of
the Power 6, and yes, the MWC is much better, and probably a couple other
midmajor conferences as well.
Congratulations to the MWC on their current basketball standings. What a
conference they would be if byu hadn't panicked when the Utes left.Optimism is the word of the day for the Utes. They're set in the
Pac12.When I read between the lines of the byu commenters, I see
worry and envy.Go Utes.
MWC is hardly tops in the country. Is it better then the Big10 or the Big12.
The top conference in the country is the SEC. No other conference compares.
Especially not the MWC.
@ truecoug1It's not about you not knowing about Sac St.,
itself. It's an indication that you don't know very much about
college sports in general.Beck threw many TD passes, not many were
across his body and across the field as he was falling down.Collie
had many catches, not many were on fourth and long.In 2010,
BYU's coaches went conservative after BYU got the lead. That, more than
anything, is why BYU lost.In 2011, BYU lost six fumbles. That is
not something good teams do, ever. BYU was playing bad football on both sides
of the ball and Utah took advantage with 47 unanswered points.In
2012, BYU had a bunch a bad snaps against Utah, two that went flying by Nelson.
Come to think if it, USC did too. You don't think it could have had
anything to do with the center rushing to get off the ball to help block Star,
do you? I guess that would make it not a fluke, but a consequence of one of
Utah's great players impacting the game.
truecoug1, contd.My point isn't to perpetuate this silly,
juvenile argument of "your team was luckier to beat my team than my team was
to beat your team!" My point is that when it comes down to it, it's the
team that makes the plays to win the game that gets the credit for the win. If
the other team was actually better, they wouldn't have made the boneheaded
mistakes to lose the game. And yes, this year, both teams looked pretty
boneheaded, with the BYU plays you mentioned, and Utah's plays to give up
14 points of a 17 point lead in one quarter. But the team that wins gets
bragging rights. The other team can man up or whine all offseason about it. Not
accusing you of either, but there are obviously some who've chosen which
they'd rather do.
truecoug1, the cougs have had plenty of bad snaps in the last couple years, some
of which they've recovered, some of which the other team does, those are
usually 50/50 plays. I don't even watch much BYU football and I've
seen at least 4 or 5, at least 3 of which came against Utah, one of which was
returned for a touchdown (Utah led the country in scoop and scores, by the way),
one recovered by BYU then subsequently fumbled, and the other going out the back
of the end zone, but negated due to the defensive player grabbing the facemask
trying to make the tackle.Now tell me how many tackles Stevenson
Sylvester has made in his career without having a teammate take him out, or how
many times out of 100 a QB has a favorable result in lobbing a pass across the
field, across his body, or how many times the officials penalize only one team
for extra representatives being on the field, when clearly both teams did. Yes
these weird (flukey, if you will) plays happen, but it's never a one-way
@TwoForFlinching "Using your logic BYU 'lucked into' their only
three football wins over Utah this decade."Please look up for me
how many passing TD's Beck had in his career, how many receiving TD's
Harline had in his career (Beck to Harline), how many catches Austin Collie had
in his career (4th and 18), how many passing TD's Hall had in his career,
and how many TD's George had in his career.Then tell me how
many times in the 2010 season that BYU had an opponent's muffed punt bounce
off of them, had an interception and knee down before fumbling a ball get
overturned, how many muffed handoffs BYU had, and then in 2012 how many bad
snaps that we muffed without recovering.The blocked FG's in
both games weren't flukes (great plays by Utah), nor was BYU's missing
their last FG attempt in 2012 (our kicking game was horrible last year).However, Utah doesn't win either of those games without those fluke
bounces going their way. So please don't give me this "Utah has
dominated BYU" talk.It's a great rivalry. Sad to see it go
away next year.Go Cougars!
@StGSLC, Two For Flinching "Well even that wouldn't be as embarrassing
as not knowing what division Sac State is in when you try trash-talking"Oooh, U got me there, I just got burned (roll my eyes). My bad on not
knowing that Sacramento St is a D1 school. I guess I should've figured if
Utah is a D1 school, Sac St is as well.And I'm not arguing that
BYU has lost to some bad teams. My overall point was that even in a down year,
BYU has won 20 games and will go on to the postseason in some fashion. In an
"up" year for Utah, U have a sub .500 team and are at the bottom of the
PAC. Just shows the difference between the two programs. Go Cougars!
@SpokaneUte "Do you ever actually comment on the topic, or just troll the
threads looking for a fight?"I will comment on the topic
occasionally, but I enjoy bantering with Ute "trolls" who come onto BYU
boards and start running their mouths (I understand that this is an article for
both schools). Like I've said before, why is it that I'm
not allowed to defend my school, but it's ok for U fans to bash on, and
mock, BYU?Stop being so hypocritical.Go Cougars!
@ truecoug1- Sac St. is not DII, in any sport. - OSU,
WSU, and USC are all ranked higher than half of the WCC.- Using your
logic BYU 'lucked into' their only three football wins over Utah this
decade. In fact if we attribute every close win as a fluke then it is fair to
say that the only reason Utah hasn't won 16 in a row is because BYU got
lucky.@ deductive reasoningNobody is impressed that
3,500 people packed McKeon Pavilion. Weber State drew more people to the D when
it played Arizona Christian.
The MWC is a solid conference. It's kinda too bad the horrible TV contract
with the Mountain, helped wreck the whole deal. It's a very solid
basketball conference. Unfortunately, Football runs the show. The current MWC
certainly deserves and auto BCS bid over the Big East. If BYU, Utah and TCU
would have stayed; it would have really been a tough conference. The PAC 12 deal
was way too much for Utah to pass up either way. @truecougDo you ever actually comment on the topic, or just troll the threads looking
for a fight? Never mind, I already know the answer.
"Not as embarrassing as getting beat by a 13-12 Division II school
(Sacramento State)"Well even that wouldn't be as
embarrassing as not knowing what division Sac State is in when you try
trash-talking, then disregarding your own team's losses to 13-win teams
(13-15 SF, 13-16 SD). Congrats on another #3 finish, though, can't wait to
see next year how much more the drop in competition level from the MWC to the
WCC will have affected the team!
@VegasUte "How embarrassing is it for the [Cougars] who will finish with 7
losses in a league that plays in jr. high school gyms and sports such collegiate
power-houses as the Pilots, the Dons and the Toreros."Not as
embarrassing as getting beat by a 13-12 Division II school (Sacramento State) on
your home floor, or losing to the PAC 12 "powers" of OSU, WSU, and
USC.A down year for BYU still results in 20+ wins, 3rd place in
their conference, and a postseason berth. An "up" year for Utah has
resulted in sub .500 play and being at the bottom of the PAC (again).That pretty much sums up where both programs are at right now. But thanks for
your interest in BYU basketball. It's good to know that our fan base is
@U90 "Why don't you worry about beating Utah first. Don't you
think the Cougars will have to learn how to do that before a Rose Bowl
invitation is extended?"You know, it wasn't that long ago
that BYU had taken 3 out of 4 from Utah. In fact, I got home from my mission in
time to watch the OT Hall-to-George thriller. BYU's proven
time and again that it knows how to beat Utah. I think it's cute that Ute
fans beat their chests about "3 in a row" over their supposed
"irrelevant" and "left-behind rival", when two of those wins
were complete flukes, gift-wrapped and handed to U on a silver platter.So because U have lucked into 3 in a row over BYU and U are now in the PAC 12,
I'm supposed to now take U seriously/think U are relevant?The
fact that U use beating BYU as your metric of success tells me just how little
brotherish U are.That, and the trailer park football facilities.
Those are just hilarious!Go Cougars!
U90 - why are you even wasting your breath talking about lil ducky's famous
predictions? We all know what happens to them!! Remember Fangupo? Ya, neither
does anyone else!
@ TroyTown"U 90re: "You [Duckhunter] are
fabulous at predicting Utah will not make it to the Rose Bowl, what other
amazing predictions can you enlighten us with?"Two years ago,
Utah fans were fabulous at predicting that the Utes would be making frequent
trips to the Rose Bowl.Whose predictions have been more accurate so
far?"Amazing post, but this comment takes the cake!
U 90re: "You [Duckhunter] are fabulous at predicting Utah will
not make it to the Rose Bowl, what other amazing predictions can you enlighten
us with?"Two years ago, Utah fans were fabulous at predicting
that the Utes would be making frequent trips to the Rose Bowl.Whose
predictions have been more accurate so far?Here's a clue: Arizona has been a member of the PAC 10 since 1979, yet the Wildcats
have NEVER played in a Rose Bowl.The Utes won only SIX conference
championships in the 39 years (1962-2010) they were in the WAC/MWC. From 1962 to
1991, the Utes won ONE conference championship.Why would any
objective fan expect the Utes to be more successful in the PAC, than they were
in the WAC/MWC?
Oh duckie, you are about as funny as that Books guy who comments about HS
basketball. the Y will never go to a rose bowl, silly rabbit, rose bowls are for
conference teams. I guess theoretically they COULD, but really, why submit
yourself to that right? However, in things that are real and not
fake, Utah could realistically end up dancing before the Y gets back into the
tourney. I know that the odds are about even, but like I said, as bad as Utah
has been the last few years, and you guys would know, you've been pointing
it out like crazy, but as bad as they have been, it would be embarrassing if
they get in the big dance before the cougies. At least I would be embarrassed if
I were a true bluer.
Duckhunter,You are fabulous at predicting Utah will not make it to
the Rose Bowl, what other amazing predictions can you enlighten us with? You
probably also predicted in 2003 that Utah would never make it to the Sugar or
Fiesta. All you prove Duckhunter is that you really don't know what will
happen, do you?You said, "BYU could get to the Rose Bowl before
Utah and that would be embarrassing...". Why don't you worry about
beating Utah first. Don't you think the Cougars will have to learn how to
do that before a Rose Bowl invitation is extended?
I love USU moving to the MWC. It is a great fit for the Aggies. It makes
geographical sense, it dramatically improves basketball scheduling issues, and
provides stability that USU has sought for for so long. LOVE IT!
nehu"Don't seem to notice too many fans at the games BYU
plays in, other than Zaga of course."You obviously didn't
watch the BYU-Saint Mary's game; the McKeon Pavilion was packed, standing
room only. I seem to recall the Aggies getting whipped by the Gaels in the
Spectrum.Anyway, the Aggies should do well in the MWC, especially if
the new football coach can keep Utah State playing at the same level Anderson
got them to.
54-IQ"The NCAA tourney is at the ESA and the tickets cost $250
each for all 3 sessions(already have mine). You have to pay to attend and you
can't take your homemade popcorn and root beer in with you."That isn't "root" beer you're sneaking into RES and the
HC.After having "fans" outside the HC give you free tickets
for the pseudo basketball games played inside, it's great that you realized
that you'd actually have to pay to see real basketball played inside the
@2ferOk, they've improved I'll agree, but I don't
think it is nearly as much as utah fans think it is and seeing as though they
have started mostly seniors this year I think they are in for another bad year
next year even if the young talent is decent. Of course we don't really
know if that young talent is decent because it hasn't been played very
much. I understand what krystkowiak did this year, he HAD to get
some wins and try to make it appear that utah has improved. The ooc schedule was
purposely bad to accomplish that, then he hoped that they would be able to get a
few more wins in the pac12 to maybe get them to .500 overall. That hasn't
happened either, and won't. It is a bit of a catch 22 for him,
they have to win some games to try and get fans back but they can't get
wins unless the teams are really bad which does nothing to prepare them for
conference play. It's a tough situation but he signed on for it.
Great the Aggies will be going to MWC, really like our situation, now we just
have to win. Good news being that we won't have to win the conference
tournament to get in EVERY single time. StGeorgeBYU I am confused about what
fans you are referring to? :) Don't seem to notice too many fans at the
games BYU plays in, other than Zaga of course.
"Right now, the Cougars are in the 10th-best league and the Utes in the
6th-best. But what if they’d stayed in the conference they helped create
nearly 15 years ago?"They'd never be on national television
(I guess Utah still rarely is) and pulling in fraction of the television
revenues each currently does...
Being #1 RPI is great. No one in the country can see them on their TV contract
but being #1 is great.
@ NevadaCougThey could have. But the only way BYU is
'guaranteed' a BCS game is if they finish number 1 or 2. Any other
non-AQ is guaranteed a spot in BCS bowl for being the highest ranked non-AQ and
being ranked higher than 12. It's possible that another BYU could get
picked up by another BCS bowl, but not by the Rose Bowl.@
DuckhunterIt may be highly unlikely that Utah goes to the Rose Bowl
anytime soon, but Utah's chances are still infinitely better than
BYU's. We agree that Utah basketball is still bad, but there is no denying
that Utah basketball is improving. I'm not sure why you have such a
problem with that statement.@ ScandrusUtah's SOS is
67. Which is by far the best in the state. But besides the W/L record, it is
easy to see that Utah is playing much better basketball than they were last
Utah's win/ loss record improved because they refused to play Weber State,
Utah State or any other decent team in the preseason except BYU and Boise State.
If Utah had known Boise State was going to be descent they wouldn't have
@2ferI was commenting more on the likelyhood that utah will ever
qualify for the rose bowl, it's highly unlikely, especially anytime soon.
As for basketball they are not good. It would be hard to be worse than they were
last year but they are so far from good that claiming improvement is not really
much of a claim. I know that utah "fans" don't like to hear reality
from BYU fans but that is reality.
"This is a problem for BYU because it is only guaranteed a spot in a BCS
bowl if they finish #1 or #2 in the BCS rankings"Not true. If
BYU had finished #1 or #2 in the BCS rankings this past season, they would have
been in the BCS title game. They could have qualified for a BCS bowl with a top
10 finish in the rankings. That's pretty much the case for any team.Moving forward, if BYU were to finish in the top 4, they should get a
spot in the 4 team playoff. Again, true for any team.
@ DuckhunterI disagree. Utah basketball is still not great, but
they are head and shoulders above last year's squad. Plus Utah has a few
wins against top 100 teams, including one over a top 50 teams. That indicates
Utah is moving in the right direction.BYU doesn't have a chance
to get to the Rose Bowl before Utah. The only way for a non-AQ to get in is if
a PAC or BIG school qualifies for the NCG and a non-AQ team qualifies for a BCS
bowl. This is a problem for BYU because it is only guaranteed a spot in a BCS
bowl if they finish #1 or #2 in the BCS rankings. Chances are if BYU qualified
for a BCS bowl, the Rose Bowl would skip over them and take the next available
PAC/BIG team. After the playoff is put into effect the Rose Bowl will be
recontacted to exclusively feature teams from the BIG and PAC-12.
Sadly, overall I believe both schools' sports programs, their natural
rivalry, and their fans would have been better off in the MWC, especially in
basketball. But this was all driven by the insanity in college football, money,
and exposure. Utah's struggles would have happened regardless
of conference but in their estimation had to jump conferences for football and
monetary reasons. I really can't blame them as they felt it was for their
own good. BYU couldn't continue under the MWC TV contract so I can't
blame them as they also felt their best interest required it. But I am a
disappointed fan who misses the great basketball atmosphere that both schools
sacrificed in the MWC on the alter of college football and the new realities of
@joseywalesNothing utah has done, or is doing, indicates they are
"still growing back to competitiveness". Frankly they look bad.That said we can easily say the same thing about utah "fans" and
football. You guys talk smack as if you went to a bowl game this year and have
rose bowl talent. Newsflash! You didn't and you don't! so..I guess
maybe after the...well...there is no "the" for you to look forward to.
BYU could get to the Rose Bowl before utah and that would be embarrassing to
Ok, the Utes are still growing back to competitiveness. But the Y fans are
talking smack like they are going dancing this year, and are Final Four talent.
Newsflash! You're not! so.. I guess maybe when you get the Lone Peak kids
after their missions you'll maybe win the WCC and get back to the dance?
Utah could get there before the Y, and that should be embarrassing to you.
@ panama - Yes I'm assuming that any basketball deal with a MWC school for
a non-conference BYU matchup would have to be a 1 for 1 deal - one season in
Provo and the next away from Provo or vice-versa. I understand that laramie
would not be the most exciting place in the world to travel for an away game,
but I think the effect of verbal abuse from the stands on players/coaches is not
large. Coaches get paid big bucks to do what they do and they can focus on the
game and so can the players. Most of BYU's team is RM's and they can
handle and insult or two slung their way.
@ Whoa NellieAmerican Fork, UTThe NCAA tourney is at the ESA
and the tickets cost $ 250 each for all 3 sessions(already have mine). You have
to pay to attend and you can't take your homemade popcorn and root beer in
Thank the NCAA for coming to Salt Lake so that the Huntsman Center will get some
use this year.
BYU "fan" prefers BYU in the WCC or independant.Somewhere
where there is less competition.
BYU football independence forced BYU basketball into this conference. Most
teams are in the conference they are in due to football so This is just what
happens to the other sports. That said with this team, good thing they are in a
weaker conference or they would not even make the NIT.
@Caleb in New York: That is a great idea, however, if BYU plays Wyo in Provo,
they would have to also play Wyo at Laramie. Don't know if BYU wants to go
there and take a worse beating from the so called fans that they would from
Wyo's team. Many of their fans indicate their intelligence with their
middle fingers and their mouths, which is very offensive to BYU's team and
coaches, as one coach reported a few years ago.
@ernieNeither will utah.@vegasuteBut you can
easily see how it is to play in front of a non sellout "crowd" of 3500,
or less, at the hc anytime you want. LOL!
I wonder if there is enough hard feelings from current MWC teams towards BYU
that the current MWC teams are unwilling to schedule BYU for non-conference
basketball games. With the WCC schedule providing little top-notch
matchups except for vs. Gonzaga and vs. St. Mary's, BYU needs to try to
find a way to upgrade their non-conference schedule. There are enough cupcakes
in WCC play that BYU should look to replace the out-of-conference cupcakes with
more solid competition.I've heard its hard to get any power
conference teams to come to Provo.But out-of-conference matchups
against New Mexico, UNLV, San Diego St., and CSU would be great and even vs.
Boise St., AFA, Wyoming, Fresno, and Nevada would be OK.
Congrats to the MWC. The Pit was always a tough place to play in. The Thomas
and Mack is buzzing once again. I can't imagine playing for a "sellout
crowd" of 3,500.
Yea, still don't miss playing those teams. I like the class of fans in the
league we are in now much better.
The MWC still won't put many players in the NBA.