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Published: Thursday, Feb. 21 2013 10:20 a.m. MST

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Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Snack WAC:

"LaVell NEVER went from Top 5 to bowl no show in such a short period of time, and unlike Whittingham's 5-7 LOSING season, 6-6 is not a losing season."

There's not much separation between a 5-7 and 6-6 team. The BIG difference was that Lavell never played a rigorous Pac-12 schedule either, so your argument was weak.

Also weak was your position that Lavell never went from a Top 5 bowl to no show, since Lavell never went to a Top 5 bowl. Furthermore, the top bowl Lavell DID play in was the Cotton Bowl following the '96 season, and he followed THAT season up with a '97 loss to their big brother on the Hill...

...and NO BOWL!

Bluto:

"BYU envies nobody."

Uh...no! You envy Utah for our BCS bowls and Pac-12 membership, you envy TCU for their BCS bowls and their Big 12 membership, and you envy Boise St. for their BCS bowls and their...

...MWC membership. Haha!

JmThms
Henderson, NV

Chris B

Yea, I also have to comment about your "Its just not the approach Nick Saban, Les Miles, Mack Brown, Chris Peterson, Kyle Whittingham, and other coaches with BCS bowl wins take."

That of course is hilarious. You try really, really hard to find a separation between Utah and BYU that is positive for Utah. The PAC did it for you by default. Their birkenstock bigotry excluded BYU, a better fit than U of U in every way except secular bigotry.The one point I might concur with is that those coaches can, and do, take athletes that BYU wouldn't touch. For academic and moral reasons. Good luck to you all going forward. You had a good run a few years back but it appears that sustaining excellence through the years is something that Utah will have difficulty with, unlike programs with better bones, such as BYU.

bballjunkie
Pleasant Grove, UT

Naval,
Look at the latest history of "star" recruits and success in the pac 12, really impressed with all the 4 and 5 star guys. Also how many 4 and 5 star guys knocked down the door at the U in this years class...0, pac 12 is doing great things for the U. Oh by the way hows that basketball team doing?

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@GO_COUGARS "'Your BCS wins are moot! But we have Outland trophies! Jealous much?!'
Yeah this is a good example of why people have so much respect for us coug fans."

Yes, since heaven forbid that a BYU fan actually defends their school and responds to obnoxious BYU haters like yourself in a similar fashion (roll my eyes).

U all can dish it out, but can't take it, eh? So sad.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Uh...no! You envy Utah for our BCS bowls and Pac-12 membership, you envy TCU for their BCS bowls and their Big 12 membership, and you envy Boise St. for their BCS bowls and their MWC membership. Haha!"

Please provide any empirical evidence that U may have that shows that BYU as an institution is envious of these schools. If U can't, then that must mean U are being 'frantic and emotional', which we all know U would never be.

I don't speak for BYU, but as a BYU fan, I can say I most certainly am not envious of any of those teams, and especially not of Utah, their losing season, no bowl game, and their trailer-park football facilities.

That's about as little-brotherish and WAC-ish as it gets.

Well, that, and the fact that U constantly come on to BYU boards, stomping your feet and citing subjective recruiting rankings to make us think that U are now relevant.

Lol, poor guy. The whole losing season and no bowl game seems to have U in full meltdown mode.

But cheer up, there's always Runnin' Ute basketball to...oh, wait a sec.

Go Cougars!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

bballjunkie:

"Also how many 4 and 5 star guys knocked down the door at the U in this years class...0,"

Wrong. Utah signed 4-star WR Andre Lewis in 2013. In 2011, our 1st year of Pac-12 recruiting, we signed two 4-star recruits, and in 2012, we signed five. So that's 10 4-star recruits over the past 3 recruiting seasons...or 150% MORE than what our little brothers in WACistan had been able to do over that same period of time. And for what it's worth, as of now, Utah had already received a "solid verbal" from 4-star OT Jackson Barton (Brighton H.S.) for our 2014 class.

Conversely, your WACish recruiting garnered had garnered you one 4-star in 2011, two in 2012, and one in 2013, for a grand total of.....4. How mid-majorey.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ JmThms

"Their birkenstock bigotry excluded BYU, a better fit than U of U in every way except secular bigotry."

Wrong. Hard to argue with a graduate emphasis that includes a medical school and cancer research. not to mention 2 BCS bowls. You are not always the victim. Sometimes somebody else just happens to be a better fit for a certain position.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Utah signed 4-star WR Andre Lewis in 2013. In 2011, our 1st year of Pac-12 recruiting, we signed two 4-star recruits, and in 2012, we signed five. So that's 10 4-star recruits over the past 3 recruiting seasons"

First off, if U signed one 4-star last year, 2 in 2011, and five in 2012, that's 8 total 4-stars in the past 3 recruiting seasons, not 10 (classic Ute math). Second, that first year after your then best recruiting class ever, U went 8-5. Last year, after your official "best" recruiting class ever, U went 5-7.

Glad to see all of those 4-stars are helping U. They'd better step it up this year, since U have lost 90% of your offense in John White IV and 3/4 of your D-line, which was the strength of your D last season.

Not looking good for U. Add that to the trailer-park football facilities and it's no wonder that we keep seeing U on BYU boards in full meltdown mode.

Poor guy.

Go Cougars!

sammyg
Springville, UT

Suffer the poor Utesies. What's a Ute fan to do when he knows his team will NEVER out recruit the likes of USC, Oregon, Stanford and others in their conference.

Coming on to these BYU recruiting articles and claiming some recruiting superiority over BYU speaks volumes of the dismal outlook for the kids on the hill.

The only game the Utes care about is still BYU when it's pretty obvious that they will never get past .500 in their own conference.

Is it still hurting having stayed home for the holidays and being beat by a WAC team???

I agree with Ted H., I get a lot of joy seeing you guys suffer so much.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Another 2-Star recruit for byu? Didn't they just set a record for the most 2-Stars in a single recruiting class? It's no wonder Bronco never has a player drafted.

This season will be the absolute closest byu will come to playing week in, week out grind of a schedule like UTAH has the past 2 seasons....2-Stars just simply don't cut it when it comes to building-up the requisite depth for such an endeavor.

Losses mounted this last season, but nothing like they will this upcoming season....Having predominately 2-Star recruits just simply won't cut it....Bronco s/b polishing his surfboard right now, as his days are obviously numbered, unfortunately....Because he's money for guaranteeing a UTAH victory, annually.

BTW, Van Noy lost everybody around him from this last season....Bronco thinks replacing them w/a bunch of 2-Stars is the proper course of action?

Marked it Down
Park City, UT

Naval Vet

"The BIG difference was that Lavell never played a rigorous Pac-12 schedule either, so your argument was weak."

Lots of whiny excuses.

Your argument is even weaker because Kyle has never beaten a single PAC 12 team with a winning record and he LOST to a team that LOST 10 games.

If Utah was even a tenth as good as Utah fans like to pretend they are,

Why hasn't Utah finished in the AP Top 25 more than 5 times in their entire history?

Why does Bronco have more Top 25 finishes (5), than Kyle (3)?

Why does Bronco have more Top 15 finishes (3), than Kyle (1)?

Why does Bronco have more undefeated conference championships (2), than Kyle (1)?

Kyle has had only ONE really good year, and little else.

Utah has sunk to the bottom of the PAC 12, right where many BYU fans predicted they'd end up in their new big boy conference, and now the only thing Utah fans can do is whine about how tough their schedule is.

Were Colorado(3-10) or that WAC team that the mighty weak PAC 12 Utes lost to really that "tough"?

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1 "2-Stars just simply don't cut it when it comes to building-up the requisite depth for such an endeavor."

Apparently 4-star recruits don't cut it either, since with the increase in those "amazing" 4-star recruits Utah has garnered over the last three years, Utah's record has steadily gone down.

Not a good trend, nor is it looking good for U this year. No John White IV, no Star, D-line has to get replaced, horrible LB's...and trailer-park football facilities.

Yikes. That's gotta be rough.

On the bright side, at least U have been able to enjoy a stellar basketball season...4 more wins than last season, woohoo! Coach K just needs to keep scheduling Cal Poly Technical High School and U will be set!

:)

Go Cougars!

Herbert Gravy
Salinas, CA

Please don't be mad to each other. There is so much hate in the world. Let's be friends and not add to it. Thanks!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

truecoug1:

"Please provide any empirical evidence that U may have that shows that BYU as an institution is envious of these schools. If U can't, then that must mean U are being 'frantic and emotional', which we all know U would never be."

I'm not sure if the pro-cougar moderators here will permit it, but here are a couple of quotes from Tom Holmoe that had been printed right here in the DNews...

"We can't say, 'woe is me'...I understand how disappointed people were that they [Utah] got in the Pac-12 and we're not. We still have to be as good as we can. We can't worry about them..."

-- and --

"Utah is always the school they talk about [in the Pac-10]. It would always frustrate BYU fans. We were just kind of looking at where do we go from here?"

And that's not to mention all the desperate, frantic emotional spewing from your fanbase about Utah's promotion to an elite level, while you're still WACish and mid-majorey.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Marked it Down:

"Why does Bronco have more Top 25 finishes (5), than Kyle (3)?"

Because the pollsters put a lot more weight in W/L records than SOS, and the cougars win more games on account of their weaker SOS. It's the propensity of schools like the Indy-WACers to schedule down and subsequently back into the final polls that led Michigan St. A.D. Mark Hollis to call for changes once the BCS system concludes after the 2013 season. He said...

"It would be my desire to have strength of schedule play a much more significant role than it does now, which is there's no role for strength of schedule...It's how many wins you get, not who you play."

Kyle > roscoe

U > Y

Pac-12 > Indy-WACey irrelevance

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet

In what way is that empirical evidence that BYU as an organization is envious of Utah? It looks to me like Holmoe is trying to mitigate the feelings of BYU fans, but in no way there did he say "Gosh, I wish we were in Utah's position", or "Wow, Utah is in the PAC 12, I wish we were them".

In fact, if anything, with the "We can't worry about them" line, Holmoe's basically saying "I could care less about Utah and what's going on with that school."

I won't argue that there are BYU FANS who are envious of Utah's position (I can honestly say that I am not one, I really like BYU as an independent) but BYU as an organization? They could care less.

BYU's fine. They will continue to be relevant, and will continue to be the dominant sports program in the state.

I know that stings, but the truth hurts sometimes.

Go Cougars!

OCoug
Ogden, UT

Sounds like a complete athlete to me. One of the greatest things about College Football is the anticipation. Outside of the SEC winning the National Championship nearly every year, you never know whats going to happen.

It is funny that I see more comments from Naval and ChrisB on Y articles than U articles. Perhaps their secret admirers of the Y.

Oh and Chris B. Whit and his staff do the recruiting, coaching and the players do the playing. Because your a fan doesn't justify the frequent usage of "we" to describe a fans favorite teams accomplishment. I didn't know fans were guaranteed membership in conferences as well.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

ObsessiveCompulsiveCoug:

It's funny that you actually take the time to count the "number" of comments. How very "Rainman" of you. I guess you didn't notice that most of my comments are in response to others. Ergo, the more you guys respond to me, the more I respond back. I comment a lot on your articles because your fans are obsessed with my opinion. I don't know what my U article to Y article comment ration is, but then neither do you. You're just being all frantic and emotional.

"Perhaps their [sic] secret admirers of the Y."

That sort of "reverse psychology" only works on the unintelligent, impressionable types. Fail.

Wally West
SLC, UT

to sammyg

"What's a Ute fan to do when he knows his team will NEVER out recruit the likes of USC, Oregon, Stanford and others in their conference."

The Utes don't need to out-recruit just need to recruit as well as the aforementioned. Stanford is its way back to mediocrity IMO.

They have put a scare into the Trojans the past 2 yrs w/ inferior talent. I'm more worried about Smiths running out of Coke than I am about Utah Utes football.

WON84
PLANO, TX

"I love how Chris b keeps talking about the BCS and bragging about utah going to BCS bowl games doesn't he realize that the BCS will be gone in 2014"

He's a frustrated BYU fan taking it out on other BYU fans. The Big 12 not coming to fruition (at least yet) is driving him nuts.

Also, the BCS is not gone. There are five conferences with automatic inclusion and a selection committee tasked with ensuring no team from outside of those five get into the playoff.

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