I've been over the trend position several times and even posted the
definition. If you can't see an upward swing from last year, to this years
team, than you certainly don't want to. Any thing short of a NIT bid (and
20 wins) next year will be dissapointing and reverse the trend. I understand the
difference between ranking, and SOS ranking. I really hit a nerve by saying tha
BYU hasn't beaten a decent team this year. Actually, they have; Utah State.
They haven't beaten a good team though, and not a single top 50 or NCAA
tournament team. That's just being honest; a concept that seems to be
challenged. Along with the concept of supporting my Utes.
@CougfaninTexasNow that would be a silly wager. I don't believe
you would honor it any way. Good programs don't rebuild when players
graduate, they reloacd. I'm optimistic. I find it quite sad that so many in
your fan base attack someone for supporting there program and being optimistic
about the future. OCougThanks, I think! I'm a true
fan, win or lose. I love my Utes, been a fan since the Jeff Judkins and Buster
Matheney days. Believe me, I'm much more happy with a NCAA bid, then any
moral victories. The state of Utah basketball is pretty down; as a whole. I
don't see any Utah school getting a bid and that's kind of sad. Oh
well, here in Spokane we have the litte school called Gonzaga that's fun to
watch; and easy to root for.
Quite the banter going on, I'm only saddened because Spokane Ute is pretty
much the lone defender of Utah moral victories. I don't hate
the Utes, my only other comment on this was in response to Chris B's
comment. Like it or not, from prior article comments sections, U fans have
seemed more than happy to take a moral victory.
@Spokane Ute - If the Utes win 20 games next year, I will change my moniker to
UteFaninTX. If the Cougs win 20 games next year, will you change yours to
Spokane Coug?It's one thing to be optimistic, but if the Utes
win 15 games next year it would be an accomplishment. Unfortunately, with
losing 3 of your 4 most productive players, I think the trend is more likely to
be 10-20. I think the Utes are better this year than U will be next year.
skywalker, "Taylor might be an adequate replacement for DuBois, but who then
would replace Taylor?"That's Glen Dean, the one whom Taylor
replaced in the starting lineup. Dean is more natural of a shooting guard, but
has the body of a point guard, which is why he filled that role until Brandon
was ready. Glen's struggled with consistency lately, but when he is on he
can shoot the ball very well. Dakarai Tucker and Justin Seymour have both been
rotating into the wing positions more lately, as well. Neither of them have
looked like as sure a thing as Loveridge and Taylor, so it seems apparent to me
that their minutes are more about building their experience than direct impact
on games (even though Dakarai's shots against Arizona were huge in getting
back into the game). Add to them next Parker Van Dyke (I believe he plans to
play a year before his mission), who has a very high basketball IQ, and
it's possible that next year's backcourt will be better than this
This trendy thingy is fun!I'm predicting pieRsquared.
StGtoSLC"Lately, however, the offense has been handed over to
run through freshman PG Brandon Taylor, largely because of his ability to create
his own scoring opportunities."Since mid-January when he started
playing 20+ minutes and began a streak of three straight double-digit scoring
games, Taylor's offensive production has been spotty at best:WSU 26 min - 13 ptsWash 30 min - 19 ptsCal 31 min - 10 ptsStan 24 min - 5 ptsCol 32 min - 7 ptsOSU 34 min - 21 ptsOre
36 min - 6 ptsASU 34 min - 5 ptsAriz 26 min - 2 pts Except for Washington, he's struggled against decent teams.Taylor might be an adequate replacement for DuBois, but who then would replace
@Spokane Ute, how about you continue that trend anlaysis of yours.2012-13: 13-17 2013-14: 20-10 (projected, trending)2014-15: 27-3
(projected trending)2015-16: 34--4, as in negative four losses2016-17: 41--11I'm just saying you have as good of a chance
going 20-10 next year as you do going 41 and negative 11 in 2016. But you keep
CougFaninTX, It's easy to draw conclusions on the loss of production from
one year to another based on the point production of the players that are
leaving, but I disagree with your analysis. If you've watched the Utes
throughout conference play, they started with an upperclassmen-dominated lineup,
which has frequently been pointed out. Lately, however, the offense has been
handed over to run through freshman PG Brandon Taylor, largely because of his
ability to create his own scoring opportunities. Freshman Loveridge is already a
respected player in the conference. And Freshman Jeremy Olsen has been taking a
lot of Washburn's minutes lately because of his offensive production, and
once he improves his endurance and strength, should be a valuable contributor
for the next few years. Personally, the biggest loss I see coming is in Cedric
Martin because of his defensive ability to keep the opposing team's best
player off of the stat sheet. But Tommy Connor is a great defensive mind, and I
think can still come up with winning defensive gameplans with any group.
@Spokane Ute"there's an obvious trend"What
obvious trend? All I see is a team that bounced back from their
worst season ever to close to where they'd been for several years.Crawl out from under your crimson bubble and you'll see that there's
no real trend here to indicate that the Utes will continue to improve at the
same pace they did from 2012 to 2013.If you want to compare apples
to apples, consider Utah's "improvement" from winning 3 conference
games last season to maybe winning 4 conference games in 2013. At that pace,
it'll take the Utes until 2018 just to finish with a break even 9-9
Spokane UteSOSThe separate column for SOS ranks
teams' schedules, not the teams themselves.If two teams played
identical schedules, but one team had a better record, then, of course, that
team would be considered better. But if one team has a SOS that is 20 places
higher, but finishes with a much worse record, it's possible for the team
with the better record to be ranked much higher.Team rankings
determine how teams stack up against each other. When comparing two
teams, the higher ranked team is considered to be the better team. It's
really quite simple, so why are you having so much trouble understanding the
concept?TrendsTwo seasons don't define a trend
because the sample size is simply too small. A team could just as easily go
6-25, 12-19, 6-25 as to go 6-25, 12-19, 18-13. It's much more complicated
than simply drawing a straight line from point A through point B and extending
it to the projected point C. You also have to consider more important factors
like who were the main contributors on this year's team and how many of
them will be returning next season.
False MachineA) Of course the overall computer rankings are based on win
loss %, opponents win-loss %, scoring margin (some rankings), strength of
schedule, etc. However, these rankings have a SEPERATE column, and ranking, for
strength of schedule. Simple concept to grasp. Did I say Utah should be ranked
higher? Of course not. I guess you have to put words in my mouth to come up with
a counter in the debate. Nice!B) Please explain why two seasons do not
make a trend? If a team loses 4 of it's first 5 games, then wins 4 of
it's next 5 games, there's an obvious trend. I simply used last year
and this years games to project next year. Take off your blue glasses and look
at the issue from an objective point of view.....heavy sigh
"See the trend?"Nope; two seasons hardly substantiate a
"trend".It's far more likely that the Utes will plateau
at around their 14-17 record that they've averaged the last 8 seasons, than
that they'll come anywhere close to 20 wins.If you really think
the Utes are going to lose their two best scorers from a team that's
struggled to score this season, yet improve significantly next season, you need
to lay off the red koolaid.
Utah fan: Here's a given these days regarding BYU fans in pointing their
collective finger at Utah--Conveniently omitting SOS.BYU fan: How do
you know Utah's SOS is stronger than BYU's?Utah fan:
Because that's what some ranking system says.BYU fan: You mean
the same ranking system that ranks BYU higher than Utah?Utah fan:
Yeah.BYU fan: You do realize, don't you, that the ranking
systems includes SOS as well as won/loss records in their calculations?Utah fan: Doesn't matter because Utah still has a stronger SOS than
BYU.BYU fan: Current RPI/Sagarin Rankings#62/#62 BYU
> #165/#136 UtahUtah fan: Stop spinning; there's no way
Utah could be ranked over a hundred places lower than BYU because Utah plays a
tougher schedule.BYU fan: sigh...
Trend, since Coach K:2011-12: 6-252012-13: 13-17 2013-14:
20-10 (projected, trending)See the trend? loses go down, wins go up.
What simple concept; atleast for some. Mind boggling for others.
Here's a given these days regarding byu fans in pointing their collective
finger at UTAH--Conveniently omitting SOS [In both Football/Basketball] from the
equation, such as how byu's SOS in basketball is currently ranked virtually
twice as high as UTAH's and the actual trend of each school's
season....While UTAH has been curb-stomped twice in conference play [Once to RPI
#73 which followed it up by curb-stomping ranked-UO, too], they've mostly
either narrowly lost to top-tier schools or beat them....Whereas byu is getting
whooped by schools they were favored to beat, practically surrendering the
century-mark to bottom-feeder USF at home, and securing ZERO wins against RPI
Top-50 schools, UTAH is rapidly earning the respect of their
conference-opposition while securing victories over RPI #s 21, 43, 70 and
83....byu has "impressively" beat RPI #92 and........Literally, not one
other RPI Top-100 school.No amount of Spin refutes this
reality....Not to mention, byu has no significant post-season accomplishment to
ever fall back onto, either.
Why so defensive about claiming moral victories? They're better
than no victory, er, never mind.
mussingaroundBased on your analysis, the likely trend for Utah would
be:2013 12-19 (losses to Col, Cal, Stan, and Ore, a win over OSU, a
tourney loss, 4 PAC wins)2014 14-17 (5 PAC wins)The only
double-digit scorer returning for the Utes next season will be Loveridge at 11.7
ppg.The next highest scoring returning player is Dean at 6.2 ppg.And this from a team that only averages 65 ppg, 243rd in the country.That's not a lot to build on, regardless of how optimistic some fans are
about the improvement they're seeing.
spoken uteSo here's your trend:2006 14-152007
11-192008 18-152009 25-102010 14-172011 13-182012
6-252013 11-14Looks suspiciously like Utah is basically
flat-lining right around their average record of 14-17 for the last 8 seasons,
with a brief spike up in 2009 and a huge plunge down in 2012. Utah will likely
finish slightly below their average this season.SIX losing seasons
in 8 years.Double-digit losses EVERY season.Now have your math
teacher graph Utah's "trend" and predict how many years it's
going to take the Utes to get to 20+ wins if Utah continues on its current
Good luck Utes on your road trips.Curious how Crimson rivalry
talking points work in basketball vs. football.Why isn't
current year scoreboard mentioned?Why isn't head-to-head win/loss
record over 11 years mentioned?Why aren't historic recent blowouts
mentioned? i.e. 54-10 vs. getting JimmeredWhy aren't consecutive
postseason appearances mentioned?But...these oldies still apply?My conference is better than yours.Look at our SOS.You would
have a worse record if you played who we played.Our losses are better than
your wins.We know we're bad, but we were supposed to be.You're not as good as predicted, so you're bad.Your ranking is
higher, but rankings are subjective.You had a better season, but hey,
we're in the BCS. Basketball Championship Series?Will new
talking points come out when spring football starts?
@Chris B - "Of course we aren't interested in moral victories." Shall I resurrect your previous comments? Because until this comment
you sounded like you were pleased with all the close loses (i.e. moral
victories).Utes record is about what I thought it would be, but this
hasn't been the "rebuilding" year I thought it would be. With
three Seniors and Loveridge doing the majority of the scoring, Utes could find
themselves right back in the same situation next year. I thought the young guys
would get more playing time / experience to build on for next year.
SoonerUte"Marked it Down went to the dictionary. Very
interesting."What's really interesting is you weren't
willing to admit that he'd proved you wrong, so you changed subjects in a
failed attempt to equate BYU's "disappointing" football and
basketball seasons with Utah's dismal failures.Footballunranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner > unranked/#62 Utah(5-7) bowl no
showBasketball#69 BYU(19-8) NCAA/NIT bound > #167
Utah(11-14) couch potato bound
TroytownDefinition of a trend:1. The general direction in
which something tends to move.2. To show a general tendency; tend.Chart and analyis Utah's last 50 games, win vs. loses, and tell me
what the "trend" is. Do you come on here to pick a fight or an
agruement, simlply for the sake of arguing? It sure appears that way. But hey,
what ever floats your boat. Have a good evening.
Riddles, I didn't know that in order to be an interested and serious fan
that I had to comment on D-News. Good to know. And about the whole
moral victory thing, if being happy about the fact that my team is certainly
improving and never quits counts as a moral victory, then sure, I will take it.
As a fan, I don't see why I should become depressed if my team isn't
as good as I would like. I believe in coach Krystco, and I am excited to watch
these next few games, and I think we will at least pick up one of them! Go
SoonerUte...could you find a word that means "failed to meet
high expectations in such a way that no redeeming value can be found, resulting
disatisfaction [sic] and despair"Actually, the word you're
looking for is two words: Runnin' UtesUnfortunately
for U, your high expectations of finishing with a winning record by scheduling
one of the worst preseason schedules in the country were dashed when the Utes
started losing to teams like Sacramento State and CS Northridge at home.Plan B was to win more conference games than last year - still in
doubt.Plan C was, well there was no Plan C. So now you're left
with trying to put a good face on another rebuilding season in hopes that
you're actually making progress.Unfortunately, the players who
are mainly responsible for Utah's modest improvement this season will be
gone next season, so it'll be back to square 1 in the perennial rebuilding
project on the hill.
Marked it DownStop confusing them by providing the actual definition
of "moral victory."Spokane UteIt takes more than
one season to create a trend.
Marked it Down went to the dictionary. Very interesting.While
you're in the dictionary, could you find a word that means "failed to
meet high expectations in such a way that no redeeming value can be found,
resulting disatisfaction and despair". That would be useful, so we could
accurately describe the Cougar basketball season. You know... the same word
used to describe the last Cougar football season.I'll take
'moral victory' over that 'moral failing', anyday.
@Sooner UteYou are spot on as usual. This season has been about what
I expected, yet I hoped for better. Next year it's NCAA bid or bust. By the
third season the Utes should be at that point; especially when you play in a
tough conference, and it's pretty common for 5 +/- teams to get a bid. Keep
the faith Bro........GO UTES!
@Spokane UteWhat's "uncivil" about backpacn's
comment?"Don't know why the Utes wouldn't be
interested in moral victories; the chances of getting an actual victory at
Colorado, at California and at Stanford are slim and none."Just
because the truth hurts, doesn't make the comment uncivil.-------"You may want to google the word "trend". Utah
was 6-25 under a first year coach last year, currently 11-14 under a second year
coach. See the trend?"So the trend describing Utah football as
being steadily in decline since their high-water mark in 2008, is accurate,
right?2008 #2/#4 13-02009 #18/#18 10-32010 unranked/#23
10-32011 unranked 8-52012 no bowl 5-7See the trend?btw, two seasons hardly establishes a "trend"; a slight up tick,
yes, but a trend, not.
SoonerUte"The Utes are making progress,"True"...and it is not a moral victory to praise their progress."Actually, it is.Webster's definition of a Moral Victory
: an actual defeat regarded as a virtual victory because of the narrowness of
the margin or because of some circumstance that gives satisfaction or hope.
RiddlesNo, not if the comments are civil or even on the subject
line; but they seldom are, correct? Riddle me that fella. Gordon
Blue,You may want to google the word "trend". Utah was 6-25
under a first year coach last year, currently 11-14 under a second year coach.
See the trend? Which direction is BYU trending? Do tell. When is the last time
BYU beat a decent team? I guess it's easy to beat on the weaklings in the
WCC; yet not beat a good program. BYU has perfected that art this year.
Ufan complains "when fans praise the Utes for giving phenomenal effort in a
loss or characterize a close loss to a good team as being better than any win
over a bad team, it's really no different than calling a loss a moral
victory."Alright. I'll bite. What do YOU think fans
should say when they play a top ten team so closely? You don't want to
praise the effort, so something simple like "Uh... thanks for showing
up."11 new players on the team is the very definition of
rebuilding. The Utes are making progress, and it is not a moral victory to
praise their progress.
Spokane Ute"10 comments and 8 from Utah Haters (aka BYU fans).
What a sad trend."What's sadder, the fact that more BYU
fans are interested in Utah basketball than Utah fans, or the fact that only 2
Utah fans cared enough to bother reading and commenting?btw,
there's nothing "low" about commenting on a rival's basketball
SoonerUteUtah fans may not be using the term "moral
victory", but when fans praise the Utes for giving phenomenal effort in a
loss or characterize a close loss to a good team as being better than any win
over a bad team, it's really no different than calling a loss a moral
victory.Krystko is doing a decent job of rebuilding, but his
so-called "offense" is incredibly boring to watch.
Spokane UteJust curious: Is being content with
constantly losing to really bad teams considered "trending in the right
direction" up on the hill?It's sad when mediocrity has
become so accepted on the hill that the only ones who can clearly see what a
train wreck Utah basketball has become are folks not living under the crimson
The only people I read using the phrase "moral victory" are Cougar fans
and media members who ask Coach K "do you consider this a moral
victory?"Ute fans aren't tallying moral victories. Fans
appreciate the close game against a top 10 team. Were we expected to lose the
game? Yes. Did we lost the game? Yes. But the players didn't treat the
game like an automatic loss. Coach gives a lot of playing time to the freshmen.
Ute fans enjoyed the great effort of the team, and the development of the
players. We're excited about the direction of the team.I
actually wish the Cougar basketball program hadn't fallen so short of
expectations this year. If they were on track, Cougar fans would be interested
in their own little world. Instead, they've given up on their season, and
come here to vent their frustration. Sad, but expected. If you're
unhappy, you resent those around you who are happy.
Coach K is doing a great job. I'm looking forward to the tournament and
then next year.The jealous Ute haters are showing great interest
since their team "isn't playing to their full
potential","making mistakes","beating themselves",blaming
the refs,etc. lol.
The Utes are certainly trending in the right direcetion. Nothing wrong with
getting close to the .500 mark; especially considering last year, and having a
second year coach. 10 comments and 8 from Utah Haters (aka BYU fans). What
a sad trend. Stooping so low you go to your rivals threads and try to be-little
them. What a sad, sad group.
@ Down UnderIs it great to get beat by every good team you play? You
have low expectations. Maybe that explains the "down" in your name.
"Krystkowiak acknowledged that road games at Colorado, California and
Stanford will be extremely challenging as the Utes jockey for the best seed
possible at the conference tournament."Nice spin coach, but the
reality is, regardless of the seed, the Utes will be one-and-done in the PAC
tourney and another Utah basketball season will mercifully end so Utah fans can
begin focusing on finishing 3-9 in football.
Quest for .500???? How about quest for 4 wins in conference. Neither will
happen this year!
No moral victories but how about a virtual run to the final four is basketball
or the BSC championship in football? If you close your eyes, picture it hard
enough and dream BIG, no HUGE, it could happen. The Utes are my fantasy team,
because that is the only place it would happen, in a fantasy world.Great
to be a COUG!
Good luck to the Runnin' Utes in their remaining schedule and in the
tournament. Coach K has them going in the right direction. The
Runnin' Utes weren't expected to come right in and own the Pac12. They
didn't but they've showed improvement. Many good things to
come...given their advantage of membership in a major conference.
The cougs were expected to take right over in the wcc. What happened.....the
The quest for .500 continues...
Don't know why the Utes wouldn't be interested in moral victories; the
chances of getting an actual victory at Colorado, at California and at Stanford
are slim and none.
The team might be tired of'moral victories' but the 'fans'
aren't!Bring 'em on. LOL
3-game road trip? Just mail it in - take the 3 losses - update the conf record
to 3-13 - let the players focus on their general studies majors.
@Chris BFunny, because for pretty much a whole articles comments
after one of the U's many close losses that seemed to be a main focus of U
fans, you and Moto included.
Enough with the no moral victory articles. Can't think of anything new to
write? Of course we aren't interested in moral victories We
also aren't interested in 15 more articles about not being interested in
moral victories. I still am behind coach k 100 percent. The guy took
Montana to the big dance. Given time, he will take us to where we want to be.