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Lawmaker says just carrying a gun shouldn't be a threat

Published: Sunday, Feb. 17 2013 6:40 p.m. MST

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FT
salt lake city, UT

Clinton
Gun owners always try to equate guns and gun rights to something else, as you did with car ownership. They're not the same. If a gun owner has a safe and a gun lock there would be no or few accidents. So many gun owners think storing guns in a closet, a cabinet, under the bed or in a drawer is adequate. So often the gun falls into a troubled person (e.g. Newtown) or youth's hands (every day) and tragedy occurs. We say that's too bad, it was an accident or unavoidable. That's simply not true. It was careless, reckless and irresponsible. If you want to own a gun society should expect zero tolerance if that gun falls into the wrong hands or is used irresponsibilty. The constitutional right for a person to own a gun should not endanger societies right to be safe from it. I'm tired of idiot, irresponsible gun owners and the damage they do to society. If you want to own a gun society should be safe from it's irresponsible use.

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

@one old man and FT
I didn't say free speech and gun ownership should be unrestricted. I'm saying, when someone comes around wanting to add new restrictions, many of us are as reluctant to give ground with the Second Amendment as we are with the First.

@RanchHand
I've never voted away anyone's basic rights. Not sure what you're referring to there.

@Clinton
You may have misread my meaning. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well into print.

Allen
Salt Lake valley, UT

We have a conflict of rights. People have a right to be on public transportation without fear. People have a right to carry guns in public transportation. What is the solution to this conflict? I don't know, but I expect that both parties will have to yield some of their rights. People who are fearful of others can get off and take another bus. People who want to carry open on public transportation can recognize that open carry makes people fearful, and they can choose to close carry on public transportation. As long as people, on both sides of the issue, insist on 100% of their rights and that all changes should be by the other persons, we will never have a satisfactory solution to this problem.

James1105
BOAZ, AL

Uh, let's see. A man walks on a crowded bus with a holstered gun on his side. Oh, the horrors. Until, that is, someone asks and finds out he is a plain clothes police officer, or FBI agent, or ATF agent, etc. Whew, that makes one feel much better, right? Now, they have the added protection of someone with a gun in case some terrorist steps on the bus to cause others harm.

Oh, but wait! What if he is just a good guy exercising his open carry rights? One should feel scared because a plain clothes person is on the bus with a holstered gun? One could also sigh in relief that someone is on board who could shoot a terrorist if one were to come on board and start shooting.

One can live in fear, or one can live feeling better protected. It is all in one's point of view.

Bruce A. Frank
San Jose, CA

I lived in SLC over 30 years ago when CCW permits did not exist. Open carry was the rule whether on your person or in a vehicle. Concealed carry was looked upon as somehow "sneaky" and if you were hiding a firearm, you were up to no good. But, even then, a person on the streets of SLC with a "shootin' iron" strapped to his hip might get stopped by police for disturbing the peace (but only if uncooperative with requests to put the gun away).

Years before while growing up in SC I have fond memories of fellow students in grammar school bringing their Christmas present shotguns to school for show and tell, on the school bus. Principal would meet them at the door and offer to keep it safe until show and tell time in their class. He'd bring it down to the class and give it to the student to tell about then take the next few minutes to, using the student's shotgun, teach gun safety. The shotgun was delivered back to the student when he was getting on the school bus to go home.

Don't allow the loss of our heritage.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Man gets on bus brandishing a gun, I get off. Now. I encourage others to do the same.

Moabmom
Moab, UT

@ Claudio said "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." Does that apply to gays trying to force the Boy Scouts to change? As for Dabakis statement about "war bullets", good grief! Fear monger much? You can take the liberal, social justice activist out of St. Petersberg, but you can't take the St.Petersburg, out of the liberal, social justice activist (not even by letting him on the basketball team)

Truthseeker2
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA

Re:Harleyrider
Israel or Switzerland you say?

"In Israel, they’re very limited in who is able to own a gun. There are only a few tens of thousands of legal guns in Israel, and the only people allowed to own them legally live in the settlements, do business in the settlements, or are in professions at risk of violence.

In Israel, it used to be that all soldiers would take the guns home with them. Now they have to leave them on base. Over the years they’ve done this — it began, I think, in 2006 — there’s been a 60 percent decrease in suicide on weekends among IDS soldiers.

Israel rejects 40 percent of its applications for a gun, the highest rate of rejection in the world.

The second thing is that there’s this widespread misunderstanding that Israel and Switzerland promote gun ownership. They don’t. Ten years ago, when Israel had the outbreak of violence, there was an expansion of gun ownership, but only to people above a certain rank in the military. There was no sense that having ordinary citizens [carry guns] would make anything safer."
(Washington Post)

aminahyaquin
GALLIPOLIS FERRY, WV

I think it is a great law. It may desensitize people to being fearful about ordinary citizens carrying guns. Cops carry guns as do security guards and detectives. To me the point is, as someone has pointed out we do not have a clue what criminals are carrying. I am very comfortable with guns in the hands of good guy citizens, whether econcealed or open carry.

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Re: Moabmom

This article has nothing to do with the Boy Scouts. Adhering to DesNews' guidelines, I have no intention of starting such a discussion with you on it. So, aside from your obfuscation of my point, do you have any reason to believe that what I said is so egregious that it required a snarky response?

Harley Rider
Small Town, CT

RE Truth Seeker : Here’s the facts for you about Israel and Their Guns - FYI W/Post is unworthy as an American Fact News Source –

When the PLO and others started attacking Israel’s schools – The parents , teachers , nurses etc became trained and armed and carried . Their schools became known as ‘Heavily Armed Zones ‘

The Police involved the citizens in a voluntary civil guard project ‘Mishmar Esrachi,’ which even has its own sniper teams. The Army’s Youth Group program, ‘Gadna’, trains 15 to 16-year-old kids in gun safety and guard procedures and the older high-school boys get involved with the Mishmar Esrachi.

The Israel’s have learned how to keep their schools safe – On going Gun Safety and Training is key
The Swiss have the safest schools anywhere , and they also have On going Gun Safety and Training

Cernan68
New York, NY

Re: "Does a person carrying a gun have a right to get on a crowded bus, or a train, even if other passengers are nervous about a stranger with a gun in the wake of violent shootings that have claimed the lives of children and adults?"

Absolutely not. Guns kill people so he should not risk endangering the passengers on the bus by bringing a gun onto the bus. If he needs to travel with a gun (e.g., he's in danger from someone, or uses guns for "fun" and is on his way to a gun shooting club), then he should drive his own car or pay for some private transportation. He has no right to endanger others. Did you know that in some states it's not legal for a police officer to carry his firearm on public transportation. For that reason, law enforcement officers can take a tax deduction for using their car to get to work.

Cernan68
New York, NY

Re:"How about a teenager carrying a baseball bat?"

That's an illogical analogy. Any object can be used to harm someone. But, unlike a gun, a baseball has a purpose other than hurting & killing. It's purpose is to play baseball.
A gun, on the other hand, has one purpose: hurting or killing. A person carrying a gun plans to either use it to hurt someone (if he thinks someone is trying to hurt him, even if he is mistaken) or plans to use it to improve his ability to hurt or kill someone by practicing at a gun shooting club. Sometimes there's a reason to carry a gun for the purpose of hurting or killing someone. For example, law enforcement or military personnel. Not the case in this article.

While not all gun owners are psychotic gun killers, all gun killers are gun owners (or gun possessors if they "borrowed" the gun from a family member's draw or if they stole the gun). A person can't be a gun killer without a gun so, if no one on the bus has a gun, then there won't be any gun killers on the bus.

Bored to the point of THIS!
Ogden, UT

I think it's great to have a guy with a gun on the bus. That increases my chances of being shot in a public place so I can sue!

Oh wait, I might die from the wound. Never mind, I'm against it.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

What is scary is that no good people are on the bus with a gun. This means a bad guy with a knife or a baseball bat or even a gun can board the bus and there is no defense.

Yes I do want permit holders and other good people on the bus to carry guns, assuming they are ready and willing to use them to protect themselves and the other people on the bus.

Police carry guns every day, and we all feel and we are all safer because of it.

Say What?
Bountiful, UT

I am for the 2nd Ammendment, but people shouldn't be allowed to have guns.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

re Cernan68
New York, NY

---

A gun like a baseball bat also has a sporting purpose, hunting and target shooting. A gun also has a use of self defense and defense of others.

Even if this weren't true, it shouldn't matter. Having a gun is protected under our constitution, having a baseball bat isn't.

Snake
Eagle Mountain, UT

Many of these comments remind me of a similar argument about smoking in public places or on public transportation. People use to say that if you get on a bus or enter a building or area where someone is smoking then get off the bus and wait for the next bus right? Wrong. I have just as much right to breath clean air as the next person. Same thing here. I have just as much right to not know that individual is carrying a gun as he does to carry the gun. It is my right to feel safe. A stranger with a gun on a bus does not make me feel safe in any circumstance. Keep your toys at home locked up where they belong.

SLC gal
Salt Lake City, UT

You go ahead and be scared of the rational individual that has a gun. I'm far more scared of the drunk guy in the row behind him muttering every loud and unintelligible musing that he can think of.

Nebsy
Ephraim, UT

I'd like to see the discussion address the dichotomy that exists across this nation. Prime example: If I see a couple of teenagers walking down the street in my home town, carrying semi-automatic rifles, I assume they are going hunting or target shooting. I'll probably tell them good luck and to be careful.
On the other hand, if I am in East L.A. Bostom, Miami, Fairfax.... and I see a couple of teenagers walking down the street.... I have a much different perception of their intentions. Both perceptions are probably accurate.
It is unfortunate that many who comment have no background to understand the former perspective.

JOE LIBERTARIAN: I find your language offensive. The fact that you so easily apply 'EVIL' and 'THREATENING' to the conversation.... WHY?
Those terms are YOUR reaction. I am not EVIL if I carry a gun. Nor am I THREATENING.
In fact... I'd have to use different language to describe the man who chooses to implement his constitutional rights... How about: 'COURAGEOUS' 'PROUD' 'BRAVE'

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