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Lawmaker says just carrying a gun shouldn't be a threat

Published: Sunday, Feb. 17 2013 6:20 p.m. MST

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Joey D

Simple answer is yes they do!

DN Subscriber 2

How about teenagers carrying baseball bats? That might scare some people, will they be ejected for disorderly conduct?

This law is necessary as some agencies (led by the chronically anti-gun rights University of Utah) have taken to using disorderly conduct statutes as an excuse to hassle law abiding and well behaving people carrying legal self defense weapons. In addition they have imaginatively interpreted the Concealed Carry law so claim permit holder MUST hide their guns, even if it is only momentarily exposed when getting something off a shelf. Ironically, they used to argue that "honest people wear guns in the open, not hide them" and would try to arrest someone for concealing a weapon if a jacket momentarily concealed it.

Well done, Rep. Paul Ray, for running this bill. Those opposed refuse to accept the proof that their hypothetical fears about permit holders have been totally wrong, ever since 1995.

It is time to ignore the nay-sayers with their emotional arguments, and look at the actual facts. Pass the bill now!

Bad guys carry and conceal guns and commit crimes regardless of all the laws, so you are only talking about hassling law abiding citizens. That's wrong!

Hurricane, UT

Again the liberal elite uses buzzwords rather than common sense. Assault weapon? As if it hasn't been clarified enough that no such thing exists. Wearing camo clothes is threatening? War bullets? Come on.

Farmington, UT

@ DN 2

"Bad guys carry and conceal guns and commit crimes regardless of all the laws, so you are only talking about hassling law abiding citizens."

So you can tell immediately just by looking at the person whether or not they are a law abiding citizen being hassled or if they are a bad guy that is about to commit a crime, huh? You certainly have powers the ordinary person doesn't possess.


The more people open carry--the easier it will be for those who want to commit mayhem to hide in plain sight. Law-abiding citizens can only carry guns without ammo. But how can one tell from the outside if a gun is loaded or not?

Tooele, UT

If you are a gun owner/supporter I encourage you to read the bill. Don't take the media's word that this is good for gun owners. Read the bill.

The Rock
Federal Way, WA

I feel safer when good people with a concealed carry permit are around.
What really scares me is uneducated people with the right to vote.

People who work for a living should live in fear of those who vote for a living.

Pleasant Grove, UT

We have a right not to be made nervous? James Madison must have accidentally left that one out.

Salt Lake City, UT

Well, the world has certainly turned. When I was a teenager in northern California in the late 60's, we could get on public bus carrying our .22 rifles, ride the bus to Hayward High School, and go shooting at their indoor range. No one said one word. Try that in California today.

Springville, Ut

Do they have a right? Yes. Does that mean they should do it? Nope. It's like mom always said, "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."

Ogden, UT

As long as the individual isn't exhibiting offensive or violent behavior then they certainly do have the right. Would I feel comfortable with a stranger carrying a gun on a bus? Probably not, but I could get off and take the next one. That's my right.


When the Black Panthers started carrying their guns around in Oakland, California in the late 1960s, it inspired a new wave of gun control laws.

There was an incident with a traffic stop. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale were sitting in a car, lightly armed.

They refused to give up their firearms. Huey Newton had gone to law school for a short time and had learned that in California it was lawful for him to be carrying loaded weapons, as long as he carried them openly. In fact, the most dramatic incident was when the Black Panthers, 30 of them showed up at the California State Capitol, armed with loaded rifles, pistols and shotgun and marched right into the legislative chamber while it was in session. In fact, they were debating a gun control law, and the Panthers were there not to do violence, but to protest this gun control law.

This episode freaked out conservative politicians, including Governor (Reagan) of California, who could not for the life of him imagine a situation where a lawful American would want to carry a loaded weapon in public.
(Adam Winkler in an interview with Bob Garfield)

Ogden, UT

How can you tell if the person is a lawful gunowner? Or how can you tell if he is a mental case about to commit a crime? Do they ask them for papers?

San DIego, CA

Evil begets evil. Displaying threatening behavior leads to threatening behavior. Threatening behavior leads to violence.

Just remember, open carry laws do nothing to help (deaths from guns in Utah about the same as California, about 9.7 per 100k)... but it certainly makes for a nasty, threatening world.

Far East USA, SC

"As long as the individual isn't exhibiting offensive or violent behavior then they certainly do have the right. "

Unfortunately, by the time we see the "violent behavior", it could be too late.

Rock writes "I feel safer when good people with a concealed carry permit are around.
What really scares me is uneducated people with the right to vote."

Dont forget. Those same "uneducated people with the right to vote" also could be carrying a gun.

I agree. I know some people that make me feel safer knowing that they are carrying.
I also know some that I dont want to be around because I know that they are carrying.

Getting a CCP requires very little effort and NO shooting of the gun in most states, Utah included.
Why are people so opposed to more firearm training?

Spanish Fork, UT

Why do politicians like Dubakis say "I'm for the 2nd Amendment" and then begin qualifying that statement immediately. Using terms like "war bullets"... what are they? Is there a difference between a 40 caliber bullet that is loaded into a automatic weapon vs. one in a single shot vs. a semi-automatic... NOOOO! And others like him now try to use the inflamed words "people killers" for an AR-15, as if a shot gun, hand gun, bow and arrow don't kill people. Why do people continue to elect Dubakis and others of his ilk? Parse words, slide in meanings when there isn't anything, play a wolf in sheep's clothing just to deceive.

To all Dubakis type people: Have the courage to either support the 2nd Amendment as written or vote to change it. They won't do anything in the open, just in the shadows because they know most Americans are reasonable and believe the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting rights, but the rights of the hunted.


"Does a person carrying a gun have a right to get on a crowded bus, or a train"

No, that is not a right explicitly stated in the constitution. You do not have a right to public transport. As for the gun issue, I spent eight years in the army and 18 months in Baghdad. My biggest concern would be accidental/negligent discharges. I've seen it with soldiers. It happens with police. It will certainly happen with untrained civilians playing Rambo.

Far East USA, SC

When a man walked around the University Mall in Orem in 2011 carrying a rifle and a pistol, the police received several 911 calls.

The guy, however did not break any laws as Utah is an Open Carry State.

I sincerely hope that the answer is NOT that we should just "get used to it".

OCoug states that he could get off and take the next one. True. What if the next one has 3 people sitting there with rifles?

Is this the society we want to live in? Is this what you want your kids to grow up around?

Isn't this the way it was in the wild west?

Don't some common altercations become deaths simply because someone carried a gun?

Trevon Martin would have gotten into a fight, rather than a morgue had guns not been involved.

Yes, I am for people owning guns.

But do we really want more people, carrying more guns, in more places?

salt lake city, UT

A man comes on to a bus with a gun. So what? He's scared. He lives his life in constant fear and insecurity. He or one of his family members are 22 times more likely to be killed with that gun he carries. Currently, we treat the right to own a gun too casually. The only thing I would like to see are tougher gun laws. Starting with, if a gun you owned is used in ANY crime or accidental death you spend a mandatory 10 years in prison and can no longer own a fire arm again. It's not guns that kill people but the ignorance and insecurities of people who use them or own them. As a country we need to stress the incredible responsibilty that comes from the decision to own a gun.

Joshua Steimle
Draper, UT

This question is an invention of government, and the proper solution is to remove government from the equation. If all transportation were private, there would be no issue. The owners of any transportation service could institute whatever rules they wanted to for those choosing to use those transportation services. Get rid of public transportation and you get rid of this question, not to mention a money-losing boondoggle of a "service".

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