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BYU basketball: It's back to the drawing board for slumping BYU

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  • wahului Stockton, CA
    Feb. 12, 2013 8:46 p.m.

    Someone needs to teach our team basic anatomy, specifically the concept of the elbow; and the its judicious application.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 3:50 p.m.

    I disagree completely with BYU athletic director Holmoe. Independence in football is a losing proposition. This falls schedule is great but how many games are they going to win? I was excited about Cougar basketball but the terrible losses at San Diego and SF at the Marriott center were unacceptable.I'm one fan who would like to see BYU go back to the MWC. Maybe Holmoe has been athletic director too long.

  • fireonthemtn Reno, NV
    Feb. 12, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    The Big Cougar can't figure out why his little Cougars can't stop guards as "slow as molasses" and whines about the officiating incessantly(yawn). Check this out, the only guard who plays more out of control than Doolin is Carlino. As far as the officiating goes, dry your tears, blow your nose and suck it up... bad calls go both ways.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 11:51 a.m.

    I have been saying it all year long... Haws is a fine young man and a good basketball player, but should never be scoring 20 ppg. He is a 10-12 point scorer on a good team. He lacks the size quickness and athletic ability to get easy shots. Everything he shoot is so difficult. the other problem is that he shoots the ball from his shoulder, just like his younger brother, T.J. He needs to rework his shot and get the ball up so that he can shoot over a defender. Davies is not a Prime time player. He is inconsistent, impatient and lack self-control to avoid untimely fouls, turnovers and poor decisions. Next year should be better with Carlino, Collinsworth and Winder playing the perimeter, they are good on ball defenders.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 12, 2013 2:47 a.m.

    Not a "KNOW IT ALL" bigsamoan, just another fan with an opinion... (Kinda like you)... But I believe one has to be deaf, dumb and blind not to realize that Cougar Sports have taken a definite dive in both competitiveness and popularity when we moved Olympic Sports to the WCC and took Football Independent... Football and Basketball have both been weaker than the year before since moving and that trend looks to continue...

    The last 2 years our Home Games have been with less than exciting opponents (Idaho, Idaho State, S.J. State, New Mexico State, etc.)... No Conference Championships on the line... Probably should have closed the Season down after Halloween.

    In BBall the MWC has gotten stronger and the Cougs have gotten worse since we left...

    Recruiting has suffered in Football and without Lone Peak HS, the same would be true of Basketball...

    It's nice to watch the games on TV, But exposure would be better if we were in a League with comparable size schools...

    We can say that things are just great, but we all know that's not true. It needs to change and I don't think Holmoe or Samuelson can do it.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 12:07 a.m.

    @ BlueHusky

    The OLD Big east. Currently those teams play in arenas that range from 8,500 to 33,000.

    Butler's gym holds 10,000, same as Utah St.'s stadium. Hardly high school gym. In fact, pretty much all of the legitimate contenders play in respectable sized arenas.

    Last I think you are incorrect to believe the WCC is better than the MWC. Conference ranking wise the MWC is 6th, the WCC is 10th. Top to bottom it's a tougher league, and it is much more difficult to play on the road. The WCC just doesn't have any gyms that compare to the T&M, the Pitt, Viejas Arena, and now the Spectrum. Oh, and we can't forget Wyoming.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:16 p.m.

    BYU has a fun exciting team but virtually no defense in the SF second half is very worrisome. A team doesn't hit 9 of 10 threes without serious flaws in the defense. A complete 40 minute game is needed.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    As much as I hate to admit it, this BYU team should not have ANY post season, no NCAA, not even an NIT bid should come the Cougars way this year. In all fairness I think Dave Rose got blindsided by two career ending injuries that came after he was forced to release Demarcus Harrison form his scholarship to Clemson. If either Stephen Rodgers along with Chris Collinsworth were healthy with Harrison, I think the results would be substantially different with a deeper team.

    But on another note BYU is playing in a league where they will NEVER fit in with their style of play & the size of arena as well as student-body and alumni base populations. Greg Wrubell can tout all he likes about the "religious affiliation' along with the BYU administration, but the fact of the matter is unless BYU can somehow be included in an expanded Big 12 (where they could do "work-arounds" on the Sunday play issue), BYU and the basketball program in particular would be better suited to move back to the MWC and please those LDS Church leaders who wish for BYU to be aligned with Utah State for the future.

  • DaveKnowsWhatsUp Bloomington, IN
    Feb. 11, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    billybubba, you're spot on with your comment. We have talent in the post, but they're not playing the way they should. Get those guys going and it will take a ton of pressure off the guards, then they'll start scoring the way they're capable. This all starts with coaching; I love Coach Rose, but we need someone on the staff who can teach them how to play.

  • GD Syracuse, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    Take Doolin out of the game? He's a great point guard, something BYU lacks. You're not going to take a good point guard out of the game as you suggest. You put Doolin on BYU's team and we would suddenly be a very basketball team. You take Gonzaga, St. Mary's along with a couple of other teams and the point guard makes the difference. BYU is so concerned about pushing the ball up the floor and getting a shot off that you seldom see the shot clock get below 20 seconds. Forced shots by Carlino, Haws, and Davies are the same as turnovers. With Carlino as your point guard next year will be no better. Maybe Collinsworth can win that spot and move Carlino to a shooting guard. This team is not a very good basketball team. Hopefully we'll get better but I just don't see it in the near future.

  • WisCoug MOUNT HOREB, WI
    Feb. 11, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    "We need someone like Greg Kite to come in and work with the bigs and show them how to bang and not flop so much" - billybubba

    I agree somewhat. Last year Hartsock collected 55 blocks in 34 games. This year, through 26 games, Kaufusi, Harward, Sharp, Davies, and Austin have combined for the same number (55). Hartsock was not a 'banger', but he found a way to be a presence inside. What Pope needs to do is to teach his players that taking a charge is too high of a risk. Instead, they need to time their jump to block/change shots and be more physical when rebounding. Doing so will take a lot of pressure off the perimeter defenders and could go a long way in helping BYU defend the 3-pt line (easier to stay with your man if you don't have to bail out your bigs on the glass or on the penetration).

  • rafinsure Elk Grove/U.S.A., 00
    Feb. 11, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    I think the MWC has more talent than the WCC, but WCC teams are way more aggressive. The WCC plays street ball LA and Bay area style. Plus, the WCC teams are tired of hearing from everyone how difficult it is for teams to play in the MC. They've geared up to take down the paper mache Goliath. The Cougars are going to have to learn how to play street ball to keep up in the WCC, and perhaps look to Cali for recruits instead of the Wasatch Front and the mighty Lone Peak High School. The Cougs need some of the hood to compete.

  • dbrbmw Orem, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    If this is a bad year for BYU basketball I will take it. Can't have a great season every year. The future looks bright. GO COUGS!!!!!

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    BYU needs to get tougher. The up-tempo style of play is fun to watch but they're getting killed in conference play when opposing teams turn up the heat and become purposefully more physical (and the officials allow it). Against USF the Y had zero (O) fast break points.

    I remember an NBA finals back in '84 where the Showtime Lakers got mauled by the Celtics and lost the championship. They came back the next year very determined and they were ready for the Celtics physical play in the finals. They matched the Celts physical play and at times even out-toughed them and beat them in the Finals. They adapted to the new NBA and ended up going back to the finals several more times.

    As long as opposing teams are going to see success with these tactics they will continue. BYU needs to learn to play in the half court and BYU big men have to get tougher. Rose has guys on the bench who have 5 fouls each to give and he should start sending in the Goon Squad. If opposing teams are going to use hockey tactics Rose needs to give a little back.

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:22 p.m.

    Re: thebigsamoan-- First of all, your screen name really scares me, so I'll tread softely! :o) "If you folks think you can do a better job, then please apply." We readers and fans are doing precisely what these reader comments venues are for: to voice our opinions, frustrations, etc. As long as we're civil with each other, I think all's good. I don't see anything wrong for venting our frustrations in writing. I'm one of those who couldn't hit the broad-side of a barn with a basketball, but I'm still a sports fan. When I comment, I KNOW I cen't even come remotely close to the skill level of the coaches and players, but that still doesn't mean that I don't have the right to voice my disappointment.

  • MizzouBlue Carthage, MO
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    Stop whining Coug fans. It's an off year for us. That happens. There's more games to play this year & I hope the team can get its confidence back for the remaining schedule. This week's rest should help. Go Cougs!!

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    This team is very young and too small. After the preseason road swings to Baylor and Iowa State, it was obvious to me that this team would not be very good. Sharp is a player and will get better. Haws is still a little mission soft and has no help. Carlino is still too wild and crazy. We have a bunch of tweeners. Davies and Winder are not playing as well as I expected. The JUCO guys are non-factors. This team can't defend the perimeter, unlike last year. A little too small? A little too slow? I don't know, but Rose does.

    Ute trolls criticize BYU for not being able to win in the WCC high school gyms. Well, most PAC12 would lose to Gonzaga and St Marys. Look at the old Big East - lots of Catholic schools playing in high school gyms. The NCAA tournament is littered with teams from small schools with small gyms. Butler? Davidson? Loyola of Chicago? List goes on.

    I think that the WCC is tougher than the MWC, so I don't buy the nonsense that the WCC is a weak conference. It is not.

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Aside from inconsistency, the biggest issue this team has is the absolutely late of leadership on this team. Davies, the designated Senior "captain", is far from it. Haws is getting pounded on and strating to break just a little bit and we have gotta be one of the softest teams. We're no where near tough enough in the paint. We could pushed around and mandhandled every game.

  • billybubba South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    I have said it once and I will say it again. We need a big mans coach I had hoped Pope would do it but he was not an inside player. We need someone like Greg Kite to come in and work with the bigs and show them how to bang and not flop so much

  • mnsave Rigby, ID
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    We have been spoiled by past success. Personally, I forget there are five sophomores playing a lot of minutes and we lost two important big men to injuries. Davies is frustrating, but why is 6'11" Nate Austin doing reverse layups when he should be throwing it down ala Sharp. Because we are pretty young, the future looks brighter than AZUTE's ute's future.

  • C.J. Greeley, CO
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    It's not the end of the world. It's a down year. BYU has the 13th ranked recruiting in the nation this year in basketball. Things will be fine. 6 straight NCAA bids is not something to cry about. Next year will likely be another run towards the NCAA tourney. Rose is awesome! He has done nothing but win. The good thing is that 90+ percent of BYU fans agree with me. I understand how emotions can make you say heat of the moment things. The Jazz are playing poorly, the Cougars and Utes are playing poorly. Football is over for the season. Relax, as any fan of a team in the state of Utah knows.....There's always next year!

  • WhyNotThink North, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    It is said that experience and expertise comes from dealing with repeated exposure to a specific event. For example if your favorite team keeps loosing (let’s say 14 losses this season) you would become an expert at recognizing a bad team. Too the trolls; thanks for sharing your prodigious experience and expertise.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    What a bunch of fair weather fans with no backbone. If one of you had a bad day at work you would probably quit and go on welfare. BYU has been to 6 NCAA tournaments in a row. No one goes every year. The basketball team has loads of talent in the pipeline.

    Gonzaga is really, really good and ST. Marys is tough but I hope BYU can make a run through the conference tournament. If not, hope they turn it around for a good run in the NIT. Go Cougars!

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    Feb. 11, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    I bleed Cougar blue and have for fifty years!

    I was not surprised that the Cougars got hammered this past week. Delgado and Augustino are non-contributors and the Cougars are weak inside. More significantly, BYU's coahces should have told Haws what they are going to sit down and tell him this week months ago!

    Please don't tell me that we didn't see teams beating him up as the defensive game plan. Iowa State demonstrated how to defend Haws!!!!

    Rose has not impressed me with his recruiting or with his development of players. Rice's loss was clearly huge for BYU.

    Next year we shall see whether Rose can coach. He hasn't done a heck of a lot this year. Carlino continues to play out of control and Davies has not developed.

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    Feb. 11, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    Goodness, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else at the way things have turned out this far but my gosh, some folks on these boards are just vicious, cold, nasty, and downright unforgiving. I wonder if they were ever as good as these kids are, or if they even play varsity ball for that matter. Some of them probably can't even shoot a basket let alone one from the f/t line and yet they brutally crucified these kids for having a few off nights. Now some are going as far as calling for both Rose and Mendenhall to go, even Holmoe and Samuelson are not immune from the wrath of these know it all. If you folks think you can do a better job, then please apply. I'm sure BYU could use your expertise. If not, then please zip it, or have the courtesy to be respectful and kind in your comments. The kids and their coaches have feelings too and I'm sure they're feeling just as bad as we all are at this point. Let's be patient...all may not be lost yet!

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Feb. 11, 2013 6:06 a.m.

    It's a pretty sad state of affairs in Provo. I hope Rose can do something, but I'm not optimistic. These are great young men who simply have lost their work ethic as well as their skill at developing plays. When was the last time you actually saw them run a play? Good luck to these seniors in your future. Life is more than a basketball game, and for all that you are I give you credit. You are great role models for others. I'm ready for next season. But I'd love to see the team have fun the rest of the way and I hope you can have a great tournament. Go Cougars.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 4:53 a.m.

    I've about had my fill of WCC officiating. My wife and MIL who never watch basketball and don't even know the rules were watching the game with me and saw how the refs were letting USF defenders maul and mug Haws all night long. My wife turned to me at one point and said, "That can't be legal, can they do that?!"

    it's a crock that they mugged Tyler before he even touched the ball and yet we end up with more fouls called on us than on them for the game(and it's in the Marriott center to boot) and they shoot more FT's. I never thought I'd see the day that I missed MWC officials.

    BYU has to adapt to the WCC style of play because teams now don't even try to hide their mugging of BYU players. The book is out in the WCC on how to beat BYU. Mug them, punch them in the mouth, grab, hold, shove them, knock them to the floor (how many times did Davies end up hitting the deck?), whatever. It's fair game and we aren't able to respond.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 4:40 a.m.

    "None of us have given up."

    That's not what it looked like to me. That effort in the last 12 minutes of the 2nd half was putrid. How hard would it be to put someone on Doolin that could take him out of their offense like they were doing with Tyler? What's good for the goose is good for the gander (as the old saying goes).

    2nd game in a row where Doolin has taken over the 2nd half of a game and made us look foolish. Dellavedova from St Mary's does the exact same thing and both guys are slower than molasses in January. We have good on-ball defenders sitting cold on the bench and we let guys like Carlino and Zylchstra do their bull-fighter routine ("Ole") and let Doolin pick and roll us to death up top. When they're not picking and rolling us to death, he just decides to go where ever he feels like going and then we have EVERYONE and their sisters turn and leave their men open out on the 3pt line for easy shots.

    We just kept doing the same thing over and over. It made me sick.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:56 a.m.

    Hate to pick a single article and give a sweeping comment but that's what I'm going to do...

    BYU sports has definitely taken a hit since we stepped away from the MWC... I think that Recruiting has probably gotten harder, playing in HS sized venues has been tougher, Scheduling has definitely gotten tougher, Coaches probably feel like they have lost status (how long will Rose and Mendenhall stay), There is not the anticipation and angst that you use to see at the games or in fighting for a Conference Title or getting the players on an all-conference team(football or Basketball)...

    Bronco didn't have a good Recruiting year, and lucky for Dave Rose that he has a good feeder school 10 miles away from Campus (take away Lone Peak HS and we would be in a world of hurt)...

    I think that our problems lie with Holmoe, Samuelson, and whoever else was involved in moving us to Independence in FB and the WCC in BBall. Anyway you slice it, it was a bad move and we will soon reap the pains caused by the decision. Both Samuelson and especially Holmoe need to be replaced... Sad but true.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Feb. 10, 2013 9:30 p.m.

    "Maybe it's time to quit making excuses and simply admit that BYU is not a good team, with the exception of Haws. It's not like we are losing to quality teams..."

    I agree!!!!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Feb. 10, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    These 2 whoopings in basketball come simultaneous to a football recruiting class which must have set a new record for the most 2-Stars in a single class....Tough times down there in provo, to say the very least!!!!

  • DRay Roy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 9:23 p.m.

    Always high expectations of Y BB teams, last night Cougars played tired--this team lacks confidence, energy, consistency, need to play smart, like they came to win. Let Kafousi set screens for Haws. Too many drives into d player, pull up & pop it!

  • Old Navy Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    Maybe it's time to quit making excuses and simply admit that BYU is not a good team, with the exception of Haws. It's not like we are losing to quality teams...

  • USNGary South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    Carlino needs to remember he is not the only player on the team. He looked horrible last night from the nose bleed seats just running down the floor just to throw junk up. The dons won because they passed the ball and use the shot clock. BYU only let the shot clock past 20 seconds probably 10 times the entire game. they need to pass to get the open shot rather than throwing something up praying it goes in. It looked like church ball last night.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Feb. 10, 2013 7:37 p.m.

    Looking ahead to next year, we lose Davies, Zylstra and Cusick. Of note, we pick up Mika and K Collinsworth. It's feeling like the next two years are going to be more of the same.

    I think Carlino is putting too much pressure on himself to be the next Jimmer, and he's not. We need to find a shooting guard who can shoot the ball. And we need to instill a blue collar work ethic like Hartsock and Abouo brought every game. Our defense was pathetic. To give up 60 points in a half to a team like the Dons should be embarrassing to every player.

  • Billy Budd Saint George, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    5 games to go.
    6 days to begin to fix things.
    Will/should/maybe/maybe not drill a terrible Portland team.
    3 very emotional/tough games to follow (not good for a team trying to fix things).
    A final cakewalk(?) against a terrible LMU team.
    Semi-final exit in the WCC Tourney.
    NIT...
    Not exactly a season coaches, players, fans had in mind.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 5:51 p.m.

    Byu cannot now come in 1st or 2nd in the WCC, but I predict they will comtend for the conference championship in the playoffs. I believe Coach Rose can get them back on track. I guess we'll see when that time comes (BYU has 5 games left in the regular season). Good luck, guys.

  • dumprake Washington, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Haws is the number one target of opposing teams because nobody else on this team can play. I am so disgusted with our post players I want to scream Davies is a soft, lazy, unenergetic player who cannot shoot. What is a college senior doing shooting airballs on free throws? Good grief. And although Austin shows some promise, he can't shoot either, and make a lot of dumb plays...to go along with all of Davies dumb plays. Then Zylstra has a decent shooting percentage only about every fourth game--and never on an away court. Carlino has a lot of talent but is determined to throw up a lot of dumb, wasted, shots that have no chance of going in.

    I for one will be glad to see these senior graduate and get out of the way. I don't know what Rose has coming in the way of post players, other than Mika, but until BYU can get some post players who can actually play, actually score, shoot, and play defense--BYU will be a mediocre team.