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Boy Scouts to make decision on gays this week — or are they?

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  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Feb. 8, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    @dustman

    "I dont think "morally straight" has anything to do with sexual orientation according to the Boy Scout Manual. But it does says "faithful in your religious beliefs." Even the Boy Scouts seem to recognize that we all don't have the same religious beliefs. But if this flies against your religious beliefs, by all means, leave the Boy Scouts. Otherwise, you can still run your scout org. the way you've always done it."

    It doesn't have anything to do with orientation. That's just religion breathing down the back of organizations that are serving 'everyone' without discrimination.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Feb. 7, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    LDS Church DOES NOT allow gay and lesbian couples full fellowship in the Church. Full fellowship ONLY APPLIES to persons with SSA NOT involved with a partner.

  • VAggie Bristow, United States
    Feb. 6, 2013 5:55 p.m.

    It's not an issue of "liberal" or "political correctness" PC gets a bad rap because proponents are nit- picky. This is a much deeper issue and is more about learning to be able to let people live their lives and accepting that some people have different views, on a variety of issues.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    I have concerns with the proposed change in policy. I think it unwise to permit those who suffer from same gender attraction to be placed in a position of leadership or influence over young men. As we mature we expand our circle of influential adults from parents and close kin to include others not related by blood. This expanding mix of people influence our choices and actions. I am not comfortable to have homosexual adults or peers placed where they could isolate and adversely influence or harm young men who do not suffer from same gender attraction. The gay agenda is not one I wish to follow nor wish to influence my kin.

    The rise of the Liberal-Progressive-Humanist movement challenges the basic tenets of our society under various feel-good slogans and the homosexual movement is only one facet of the battle for control of American Society.

    I fully expect BSA to cave in to the Politically Correct agenda. Lord Baden-Powell must be ashamed of the present Scouting standard bearers.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Feb. 6, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    @dustman
    Nampa, ID

    "Proposing opening leadership positions to men with expressed same gender attraction in a morally straight young male exclusive organization flies in the face of logic."--JOnathan Eddy, first post on this string.

    According to the Boy Scout Handbook, Morally Straight means: To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

    I dont think "morally straight" has anything to do with sexual orientation according to the Boy Scout Manual. But it does says "faithful in your religious beliefs." Even the Boy Scouts seem to recognize that we all don't have the same religious beliefs. But if this flies against your religious beliefs, by all means, leave the Boy Scouts. Otherwise, you can still run your scout org. the way you've always done it."

    Christensen?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    To "mountain man" they already have policies that would prevent a gay man who engages in homosexual activities from being a scout master.

    A gay man who is married to a woman and is sexually active with her, and only her, theoretically could be a scout master.

    If a gay man is involved in a sexual homosexual relationship, he would be at least disfellowshipped, possibly ex-communicated. Either one would prevent him from being called as the scout master.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    This will be an extremely hard decision for the BSA. Churches are one of the largest area of support for chartered organizations throughout the BSA. The BSA rely on Churches of all denominations in chartering and supporting with donations from their members to meet their mission statement and goals. Even though some Churches may have support from their members prior to this decision potentially in May, now the various people and organizations have more time than the news announcement made it out to be. Maybe the President of the BSA will sign an executive order as the outgoing Secretaries in the Cabinet are doing to make it effective today. That would be a disaster as some of the executive orders will be also. We live in a time of declining morals at all levels of government and in the nation, as a whole. The BSA was founded and based on moral values in their oath and law, including motto. These are values are families and especially the young men need in their lives today. The Super Bowl designed for men and young men showed the decline in values just the other day during half-time, with entertainment for families.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    I am glad they are going to wait until May to get the real input and not just the Presidential power to play in this process.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    If it ain't broke don't fix it. There is a difference between broke and and poor. I have no sympathy for the devil.

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    The Boy Scout organization should not discriminate against boys, unless a Scout is advocating sexual activity (either homosexual or heterosexual) prior to marriage. Please note this is not practicing discrimination, only insisting on adherence to the moral elements of the Scout Law and Oath. How can any company object to this policy for Scouts?

  • mountain man Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    I predict the. Vote will end in allowing each council the right to determine its gay policy. This way they appease the left but still giv some bite to the right. They cant afford to offend the lds church who sponsors 1/3 of all scouts in the usa. Now the church will have a bigger problem on its hands. How to have a policy of no sexually active gays holding positions in scouting. I predict the church will avoid the tornado and drop scouting all together. They dont have scouting in foreign countries. Make it uniform to not have it in th usa.
    Bsa loses 1/3 of its support and scales down to a much smaller organization that is more secular and less religious focused. Thats how i see it.

  • GDance Independence, MO
    Feb. 6, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Pushing back making a decision just kicks the "scouting membership cliff" further down the road. Make a decision and then make a decision that it is final. For goodness sake don't decide to decide later. It not only doesn't make sense but it is absolutely unfair to people who might donate time or money only to find out the organization isn't what it was when they donated.

    Kick that can down the road and donations will go down the road too.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 6, 2013 12:41 a.m.

    DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) worked well in the military... until a violation occured. - Filo Doughboy

    Under DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) we lost $1.3 billion of our tax dollars.

    For a x17 year policy...

    that discharged over 32,000 troops.

    What tangible benefit is there to that?

    DADT worked?

    That is an absurd claim.

    Just like the claim we are concerned about the 'safety' of our children in the BSA with gays...

    AFTER 1200 reported cases of abuse, with a ban on gays in place.

  • Noonhigh Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    Kids that are of Scouting age, can't wait for another organization to form. For that reason my kids will continue attending a LDS or local troop no matter what they vote. My vote is for my child and he needs Scouting today not tomorrow. That logic is some of the logic that parents from either side of this debate feel.

    Bottom line Scouting is a choice, a good choice from what the studies show. High 90's approval rating from those who participant and high 80's from their parents. There is no program like it, nor is there one that can could handle a influx of the number of boy's who's parents would make them leave. For sure there are not the same number of boys who would join if this passes. Same goes for the money. Although there will be many parents who send their boys to camp but refuse to help give money locally to help make the camps better. I don't get that?

  • june Provo, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    Who says that any organization needs the BSA? Organizations can have/start their own Boy's programs. AARP is an example of something that went wrong. Start something of a program that works for you. Let the Gay community have their own organization. Let the non-Gay community have their own organization. Why must we mix apple and oranges? We don't need too!

  • VAggie Bristow, United States
    Feb. 5, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    If this is about the scouts, I don't see why people would be offended if a gay 15 year old wanted to learn 1st aid or how to tie knots...
    In terms of leaders I dont blame anyone for not feeling comfortable sending their kid out camping with an adult who may be attracted to their child, whether it be a heterosexual female or a homosexual man. But openly gay kids should be allowed in scouting.

  • kishkumen American Fork, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 5:18 p.m.

    Either way they are in trouble. If they don't change with the rest of the world they will be perceived as backwards, and become irrelevant. If they do change they will lose a lot of support from a large population of bigots (e.g. see previous comments).

  • Filo Doughboy Bakersfield, CA
    Feb. 5, 2013 5:11 p.m.

    The questions posed by the clueless are transparently silly. No one is saying anything negative about the value or contribution of gay people. It is when they, or heterosexuals, violate children that there are issues. There have been excellent gay leaders who remained quiet about their sexual orientation because their sex lives have nothing to do with scouting programs. DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) worked well in the military... until a violation occured.

    Just who sneaked in and violated 1200 boy scouts? Pedophiles are predators from both orientations. Protection is the pre-eminent issue.

    Why does the Catholic Church have such a huge problem with pedophile priests? No accountability, no consequences.
    The issue here is about the private camping trips, not the public merit badge activities. Stop obfuscating the common sense issue of safey with liberal, amoral drama and topic switch.

    BSA- Give up your funding and remain true to your original purpose.

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    When I was 12 years old and new member of our scout troop in our ward.....I was molested on a Klondike Derby by scout leader. The only person I have ever told this to is my wife. It has been and still is a difficult thing for me to overcome.......It makes me ill to think that the BSA is considering this move.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    The LDS Church should just go independent with their YM's program. Walk away from Scouting, the Scouting house is on fire and there are no fire truck in sight. Develop a new program which develops Aaronic priesthood quorums... deacons, teachers and priests. They could serve their fellow human beings, engage in outdoor activities and without the scouting regalia, it would be MUCH less expensive for the Church and the parents. (We need the money for all of the missionaries!) It would also allow the YM's program to be a global program.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:35 p.m.

    However, this isn't so much about same-sex attraction as it is about acting upon this attraction and living the lifestyle that Pagan and others promote. This is where many draw the line and which has kept or banned others from participating when they state I'm living with my partner who is of the same-sex. This is what President Obama and others are promoting the Boy Scouts to accept and that is not morally clean or correct. This is the problem which the Church of Jesus Christ will not bow down to. If the Church continues to hold to scouting it will be with complete exclusion of the scouts from certain aspects. This would mean only complete scout camps for LDS Troops and etc. No so called gay scout leaders who are actively living the lifestyle or engaging in other acts that the LDS Church finds immoral. It is this basic reason why the LDS Church doesn't support the Girl Scouts. So if anyone expects the LDS Church capitulate they will be waiting for a long time.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    The Boy Scouts are free to make their own decisions, and rules. BSA is not the only option for young boys.

    Our fellow citizens don't understand liberty, and wish a government take over. What a shame.

    My neighbor has a new car, and nicer house then I do. Rather then whine for equality, or beg for a new car, I can form my own decisions, and work for the same thing.

    It's the American thing to do. At least the America I grew up in.

    To our gay friends, start your engines, and make your lives as you see fit.

  • chcknhawk Temple, TX
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    I'm fed up with special interests forcing their views on private organizations.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    @mightyhunterhaha
    "If this vote goes through at the change in policy is approved; what"s next? The Scout Oath of morally straight would be thrown out."

    Okay, first off morally straight is not talking about straight in the sense of sexuality. Secondly, if you already know that, why would morals be out the window just because there'd be gay members? It's like what a lot of people say about atheists. You can easily have morals while being homosexual or atheist otherwise this wouldn't still exist...

    "I will do my best to be honest and fair,
    friendly and helpful, considerate and caring,
    courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do,
    and to respect myself and others, respect authority,
    use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and
    be a sister to every Girl Scout."

    Or do you want to argue that the Girl Scouts aren't moral?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    @banderson
    "There is no right or wrong, tolerate anything, and teaching morals is irrelevant"

    The girl scouts still teach morals, even with lesbian and atheist members.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 3:14 p.m.

    If Sandusky was in Boy Scouts he would have been associating with other leaders who might have seen in abhorrent behavior and stopped it in its tracks. He was his own organization, leader and oversight. He was good at lying and leading others to believe him for years. Again, the power of a Penn State coach and assistant coach is far different than the BSA rules and regulations of honor and morality. It is unfortunate to have one abuse case in that kind of organization but the BSA tries to protect young men and also their leaders by insisting two leaders or parents always be present at BSA activities with youth.

    As with Sandusky, the truth can come out years later, unfortunate but justice sort of comes to the rescue.

  • Fish71 mesa, AZ
    Feb. 5, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    I have donated to BSA every year of my working career even though it was not $200,000, if they change their policy, they would see no more money from me, and I am sure there are a number of donors who feel the same way that I do, more than the money that the BSA is losing from Intel or UPS.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 5, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    @ Healthy Skeptic

    It's a sure thing that many with same sex attraction have gone through the scouting program successfully with no problems. It used to be something no one talked about or revealed about themselves. But now with this new emphasis on "coming out" and proclaiming ones sexual preference as well as the encouragment to act on it from the LGBT community, there is a greater chance of it becoming a problem. It has the potential of becoming something that's focused on, discussed, distracting from the rules, morality and goals of scouting. And a huge distraction it would be!

  • Healthy Skeptic Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    I have been involved in scouting for many years. Not once has anybody inquired about my sexual orientation. I am not aware of any place on the leadership application OR the youth application that asks about sexual orientation. I guess I am confused about this so-called "ban on gays" in scouting. Someone please shed some light on this for me.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    My experience in Scouting, and as a Leader for the last 25 years was to teach the boys to help one another.
    No one does it alone.
    Teamwork
    Cooperation
    Skills
    Confidence
    Sharing

    We never talked about sex in ANY fashion - except the BSA required discussions about inappropriate touching from ANYONE (male/female, friends/relatives, Church Leaders/School Teachers, etc...as far the the BSA handbook and policy are concerned, it doesn't matter WHO or single out ANYONE).

    Pedaphiles can be anyone.

    Living in Utah - I'm more worried about middle-age female Teachers having sex with these boys.

    BTW - Statistics don'tlie. Most pedaphiles are heterosexual.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    Here is some things that many members and those not of our faith don't know. One many of those who have same-sex attraction who have not acted upon this attraction have been scouts, Eagle Scouts at that, leaders and have had other callings. Many of you may not have even known the individual had same-sex attraction because it wasn't broadcast. However, once they have acted upon those attractions they have been requested not to attend scouts, have been removed from leadership roles and in the most severe cases have been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

    This has been the case for many years. The so called softening of the LDS Church is just that rumor and propaganda. There are many who have had same-sex attraction who have remained chaste and have obeyed the commandments and covenants they have made. They have chosen to do so against very stiff odds but it is a choice many have made to remain close to their loving Heavenly Father regardless what Pagan and others state. They hold temple recommends, have leadership roles and all other rewards a member in good standing has.

  • athought Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    My son was in Boy Scouts and attained Eagle status. My grandson is now in scouting. During all this time, I can't remember anything asking whether they are homosexual or straight. Maybe I'm just being naive? Does it really matter? My granddaughter wants to be part of scouting, and she isn't allowed. She does everything we do with the grandson, except camping and scout meetings. We have to do those on our own, but when she finishes the merit badge requirements, we recognize her also. I think there are too many organizations getting involved in things they have no business being involved in -- the Pride organization, ACLU, NAACP, etc. What does this have to do with them? The one I saw talking about this on TV from the Pride whatever was female. What does this have to do with her? She can't get in.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    For many, the issue to seems to be one of 'progress' in society. Such has 'progress' seems to have a simple definition - anything which lowers standards, is more inclusive of all possible ideologies, opinions and personalities must be a good thing. Soon we will be voting to allow fish to live out of water; which is only fair.

    What is interesting is that the more 'inclusive' we become, we become increasingly intolerant towards those who prefer their current value systems. At one time gay bashing was unfortunately common. Now, bashing those who don't accept gay ideals is vogue.

    I still do not understand why it is so important for a faction of society to demand admittance into an organizations who's core beliefs are contrary to their own. It seems more to me that the issue is not about wanting to be a scout so much as it is wanting to conquer an establishment that dares to say 'no'.

  • Hagothsen Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    I'll follow President Monson's advise. I can see legitimate moral and logical arguments on both sides of this argument. Lord Baden-Powell's vision is between a rock and a hard-place. A supporter of scouting? To be, or not to be? I'll leave it up to The Lord, to tell us through His servant, The Prophet.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    To "Obama10" I hate to break it to you, but the LDS chuch has not softened its stance on gays. 20 years ago in the Handbook of Instructions that all LDS leaders have, it said that gays are welcome in the church, and the only prohibition that they had that was different than other members was that if they had a sex change they could not participate in Temple ordinances.

    To "UtahBruin" you realize that if you take the BSA away from scouts, you lose 70% of scouts?

  • Bay Area Dude San Ramon, CA
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    If BSA allows charter orgs to have gay leaders, my 25 years of volunteering in Scouting are over, my Eagle gets returned, and I pull all my boys out of Scouting. Enough said.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon

    Because your name is stating you MAY be open minded, you are not so open minded as you argue only one side of the principal. To call me or anyone else out with your quotes "other open minded". For you to ASSUME I am not open minded because I don't agree with gay principals. Also, you don't even understand your own statement. You say...

    I did not forget, nor did I fail to mention it.
    I said, and I quote"...same level standard ..."

    here it is again:

    We allow gay and lesbians full membership and fellowship in the LDS church.

    So, shouldn't we show that same level standard with our affiliation with the Boy Scouts?

    The same "level standard" is already applied. If you are gay, please come to church and scouts. If you are a practicing gay person/member, by all means, please still come to church but know that you cannot hold a temple recommend or be a scout leader. Same applies to someone who is an adulterer, drug dealer, committing mail or tax fraud, etc.

    Being open minded means being "OPEN", not arguing one side, but seeing both sides.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    BSA has always welcomed boys regardless of sexual orientation. The difference is that they ask the boys not be open about it or engage in homosexual behavior. They also expect straight members to be morally clean, suppressing their natural desires towards girls. That's what a boy needs to do to achieve true manhood. Since marriage is traditionally (and in my view correctly) viewed as only between a man and a woman, talk of same gender romance would be more disruptive in BSA's same-gender units than traditional opposite-gender romance. Current BSA policy should not change.

    Regarding those units who might keep to old policy if BSA does allow open gay membership, I can't see how it would work. Such policy would differ among units. How could one unit participate with others in Jamborees, etc. where they would be exposed to and be living among leaders with different standards?

  • mightyhunterhaha Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    If this vote goes through at the change in policy is approved; what"s next? The Scout Oath of morally straight would be thrown out. The next big push would be "Duty to God". The scouts would have already shown they will buckle under pressure. So what will change next? Ths core beliefs of Scouting is on the precipice. If the BSA is swayed they will cease to exist as an organization. What will all the 6 figure salaried administrators do?

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    Obama10, 'Two deep' leadership is an obvious safety mechanism, is it not? However, what if the two deep are both gay? Let's get to bottom line about this and a host of other issues parading before us by the amoral crowd: There is no right or wrong, tolerate anything, and teaching morals is irrelevant, whether honesty, or sexual preference. I beg to differ. You can't create trust by not having laws based on right and wrong. Without it, chaos ensures, which is exactly what will happen to BSA if they don't stand up for a 'morally straight' campout!

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    One last comment, and I'm out...

    We have Mormons who are gay.
    We have Mormons who are single.
    We have Mormons who are alcoholics.

    You can be single, gay or an alcoholic and still be a Mormon in good standing.

    Telling someone they don't belong on account of who they ARE is just plain wrong and is the greater sin.

    In the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr:

    "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin [or age, or gender, or religion or sexual orientaltion] but by the content of their character."

    I think he was onto something there.
    I firmly believe those words were inspired from Heaven above.

    I think - that is what a Christian, a follower and disciple of Christ - should also believe and do as well.

    Think, Ponder and Pray, that your hearts and minds might be opened.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    UtahBruin
    Saratoga Springs, UT

    Ted H.
    Midvale, UT
    To PGViking Dad and Open minded Mormon:

    You forgot(or at least failed to mention one big point).

    ==========

    I did not forget, nor did I fail to mention it.
    I said, and I quote"...same level standard ..."

    here it is again:

    Open Minded Mormon
    Everett, 00
    We allow gay and lesbians full membership and fellowship in the LDS church.

    So, shouldn't we show that same level standard with our affiliation with the Boy Scouts?

    9:56 a.m. Feb. 5, 2013

    --------

    BTW - I look forward to your reactions, when the LDS Church comes out with a policy Statement in-line and no different that what I and Obama10 nd other "open minded" commentors have already mentioned.

  • jimhale Eugene, OR
    Feb. 5, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    PGVikingDad -

    Here is my thoughtful response to your question to which I affix my name, noticing as I do, that you did not affix yours to your thoughtful question:

    You are partially right in posing your question and partially wrong: A person who claims same-sex attraction is allowed full fellowship in the Church and can receive a temple recommend. But such a person who acts on those attractions can be denied both a temple recommend and full fellowship.

    Under current national Scout policy a person in either category is prohibited from serving as a scout leader or from being a Scout.

    To make the Scout policy aligned with the LDS policy, the BSA would have to say: It's okay to believe you are gay, but if you act out you are not able to participate.

    No person with same sex attraction should be called to serve as a youth leader for those of the same sex. Unlike some troops of the BSA, LDS sponsoring organizations do not call women to lead Boy Scouts. Nor do we call men to serve as youth leaders in the Young Women's organization. We have good reasons for so doing.

  • Ted H. Midvale, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    To PGViking Dad and Open minded Mormon:

    You forgot(or at least failed to mention one big point). People who have homosexual feels yet dont ACT on those feelings are welcome with open arms in the church. Gays who are actively dating members of the same sex are NOT open to all rights that other Mormons have. No, they can't enter the temple. No, they can't hold any calling they could otherwsie. No, they can't hold a temple recommend.

    Now, if the policy you are suggesting the Boy Scouts implement is similar then perhaps you have a point. But if you're propsoing the Boy Scouts welcome "acting" homosexuals, then no you couldnt be more wrong comparing your proposed plan to the current church structure. Sorry.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    Pagan,

    "1200 cases of child abuse reported in the BSA.

    Zero gays allowed in the BSA."

    And yet some people hide their orientation and get into the Boy Scouts anyways. The very definition of a heterosexual precludes them from ever abusing a Boy Scout.

    Again, by definition of nature, only a homosexual(or bisexual) is capable of abusing a boy scout. Heterosexual men are only attracted to women.

    Yes, some have lied by hiding their orientation.

    And it is these cases we are trying to prevenet.

    Its all about scout safety. That ia paramount.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    @PGVIkingDad

    A gay person can be a member and hold a temple recommend. A practicing gay person can be a member of the church but cannot hold a TR. A gay boy can be a Scout, even still today before the vote. Its a gay leader who is not permitted. I assume, why? Well, MY answer. Scouts is affiliated with many religions, as stated in the article. Many, not just LDS wards and stakes. Scouts was founded on certain principals. One of them being belief and faith in God and the standards set by religions. Many religions do not agree with gay practices, I will say me included. I believe it is a choice, not something you are born with. However, since churches do not agree with it, I think they fear the idea of it being pushed on the boys. Is this true, does it happen, I don't know. But I understand the fear. Just as you don't want your kids hanging out with those who do drugs, you don't want them to involved with gays. It is what is percieved as wrong by some that they choose to stay away from. Just my thoughts.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    BSA should stick to their principles the bullying by the left wing press especially the Washington Post and major corporate sponsors to cave is enormous but don't cave. The Scout Moto and Scout Oath and the whole scouting moovement will be jeopardized and cultural bullies will have scored another triumph. Having served for decades in scouting I'm alarmed at how quickly morality and decency has evaporated but until now BSA was a pilar of integrity.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Utahbruin: Maybe you need to go back through and read all the posts and see how often God is mentioned. And I will go out on a limb right now and say that there will be posters, if this does not pass, that say it was because of God! People thought God played a role in the Super Bowl, for crying out loud!

  • California Steve Hanford, CA
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    Satan has long desired to defeat the BSA. Perhaps the time has come.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon

    Only if they are not actively pursuing their selected behavior. They have to be a non-practicing gay to hold callings.

    @bandersen

    Very well said!

    @Hutterite

    I rarely ever agree with anything you say, but your last post is dead on accurate. It should be taken out of religion.

    If the BSA wants to imply religion, support God and religion, that is fine. But get scouts away from religious organizations that run the troops, packs, etc.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    @xscribe

    "Why do people always feel they have to talk for God. If God exists........."

    Your last post is simply false or a lack of knowledge on the subject of God and or religion on your part. We are not robots, nor are we controlled in any way. There is a freedom to make your own choice To whatever that decision may be, it results in a consequence or maybe a reward. Are there better paths than others? Absolutely!! Can you rebound from a bad choice or that consequence? Absolutely! To say that the final choice is God's and to say if it pass's it is because of God to believers, and too imply to many that God is only the answer of good choices is completely regurgitated to spark argument. I would think that the BSA is not on God's priority list and he is leaving this up to the people. What we do from there and how we and the BSA respond is completely up to us as well. Just a guess, but come on. Don't look for the opportunity to start fire, look for ways to control one set or put it out.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    Safety must be the overriding consideration. - Jonathan Eddy

    'Boy Scout Files Give Glimpse Into 20 Years of Abuse' - By KIRK JOHNSON - NY Times - 10/18/12

    'Officials with the Boy Scouts fought in the courts for years to prevent the release of the documents — more than 15,000 pages detailing accusations of abuse against 1,247 scout leaders between 1965 and 1985, with thousands of victims involved...'

    1200 cases of child abuse reported in the BSA.

    Zero gays allowed in the BSA.

    If safety is your main concern then why, are you concerned with a group that cannot even join?

    When 1200 cases of a abuse are reported WITHOUT them?

    Dear Deseret News staff. You allowed this comment on other stories.

    Choose a standard.

  • PGVikingDad Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    Question to my fellow LDS: If a gay person can be a member of the Church and hold a temple recommend, then why can't a gay boy be a Scout? Be careful and thoughtful with your answer.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    ' I am sure religious organizations have loved what he (President Obama) has done for abortion and for contraception with his benevolent acts of kindness for the whole world.' - JWB

    Title:

    'After 40 years, Roe v. Wade's legacy is deep divide across U.S.' - By David Crary - 01/21/2013

    By the Deseret news.

    So, President Obama was elected in 2008.

    Abortion has been legal in America since 1973.

    So please, do not 'blame Obama' for abortion.

    It makes you look uninformed.

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    For all of my LDS friends and fellow Scouters can you not see the parallel here? The LDS church has "softened" its stand on homosexuality and this will spill over into Scouting as well. If the vote to allow homosexuals doesn't happen this year, it will happen in years to follow. The LDS church will come out with an official endorsement of Scouting and life will move on. To the pedophile issue. As long as "two-deep" leadership principals are followed, young men should still be safe.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    "Facts are stubborn. How many 'partners' do they on average have during their lifetime?"

    In light of the current discussion, wouldn't it be more relevant to determine how many sexually abuse younger boys? Just saying...

    And what you describe in your post. Is this sincerely what you "hope happens"?

    Pretty sad, I must say.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    It's time to extricate the scouting movement from religion.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    Gay activists are the bullies here! The irony of all this is watching them discriminate and bully anyone of faith while claiming victimization by the very people who believe in choice. If they could just learn to live with their decisions, whether they believe its by choice or not, they would suffer like everybody else in society that has burdens and crosses to bear, but don't spend their whole lives announcing to the world how discriminated and burdened they feel. Grow up! For the record, let their be no mistake, this isn't about the Boy Scouts or corporate America; its about elimination from any societal institution the belief in God, which, for them, must also be eliminated. God is compassionate and merciful, but He won't be mocked.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    We allow gay and lesbians full membership and fellowship in the LDS church.

    So, shouldn't we show that same level standard with our affiliation with the Boy Scouts?

  • jimhale Eugene, OR
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    It would seem the BSA National Board has the cart before the horse.

    They are apparently prepared to vote to change the policy on membership when prior consideration of a different issue seems appropriate.

    Before the BSA can legitimately change its membership policy it should first consider changing/repealing the Scout Oath from:

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight.

    To:

    On my honor I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my country
    and to obey the Scout Law;
    To help other people at all times;
    To keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally confused.

    The gay community has long used the word straight to refer to others. The whole gay rights movement is all about societal approval of unstraight behavior.

    The lawyers are right. Changing the national policy will eventually allow courts to declare local councils that maintain the ban to be at variance with statutes/ordinances governing discrimination.

  • The Bike Guy Sag Harbor, NY
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    The Scouts were originally a non-sectarian group for ALL families, not just Christian conservatives. The Scouts elsewhere (UK, Canada, France, Mexico, etc.) do NOT discriminate.

    We can each believe that the other is immoral. I believe that people who drive giant gas-guzzling SUV’s are immoral. But I don’t have any desire to keep them or their kids out of the Scouts.

    We are a two-dad family and we have no objection to our kids hanging with Mormon or Baptist parents or their kids. If we meet at the Jamboree after the ban is gone, please introduce yourselves. You’ll see that this two-dad family is not terribly different from your own.

    Baden Powell himself defined the universal spirit of Scouting. In his words:

    "Buddha has said: 'There is only one way of driving out Hate in the world and that is by bringing in Love.' Scouting's aim is to produce healthy, happy, helpful citizens, of both sexes, to eradicate the prevailing narrow self interest, personal, political, sectarian and national, and to substitute for it a broader spirit of self-sacrifice and service in the cause of humanity."

  • fangflyer LAKE WALES, FL
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    Voting to allow homosexuals to participate in any aspect of Scouting is the biggest mistake that the Boy Scouts of America could make, and bowing to "pressure" from two board members is pathetic. The two board members of B.S.A. who are pushing this "agenda" should be removed from the Scouting Board of Directors and any funds their companies have donated returned. There are enough decent people and companies in this country to more than make up for the lost funding. The Boy Scouts should never have allowed this to become an issue, and it they take a firm stand now, they will send the right message.

  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    There is indeed wisdom in carefully and without undue haste consider any propsed change. Why should a stampeded demand to change the rules and regulation of any organization be tolerated without thoughtful and meaningful consideration? One may wisely wait to hear what President Monson and other BSA officials have to say concerning this matter.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    Why do people always feel they have to talk for God. If God exists, he/she/it will have the final say, according to most beliefs. And, according to most beliefs, if this were to pass, it would be because of God, not in spite of God. Unless most of you only think God makes the decisions you deem are the correct ones!

  • Tilka PORTLAND, OR
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    I wouldn't let my boys go on campouts if the leaders were women, it provides an environment where something inappropriate could happen. Similarly, I would not allow my boys to go on a campout where a homosexual man is going to be the leader. If this goes through, it is time for the LDS church to drop scouting. Long overdue. I get sick of contributing to the friends of scouting when the district executives make six figure incomes.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    I'm not sure why the need for a delay on deciding how to deal with this issue. It's not as if no one has ever given it any thought or formulated a policy on the matter.

  • ericorlisa new market, AL
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    is this what you want for the future of BSA? the real question i want you BSA to ask and answer for the future of BSA is: are you going to compromise for political gain and finacial assistance from other parties and please man or are you going to take a stand in these dark days and stand for God and please Him and rely on His sovereignty to meet all the needs for BSA? i pray to God for you BSA that you will do what is right not in the sight of man but in the sight of God and what He says about making compromises against His Law, Precepts and Statutes.

    --
    grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 5, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    We have become a nation of whining victims.

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 8:57 a.m.

    Delay the vote???? Why? Let's vote now!

    Uphold the Scout Oath!!! Raise the Title of Liberty. The time is at hand.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 8:35 a.m.

    Nationally, enrollment in scouts is down double digits in the last few years and their homophobic position was cited by their own leaders as one of the main reasons. We would not let our son join the scouts because of the BSA's position as we felt it was anti-Christan and exclusive of the norms of greater society. Most major coporations changed their position years ago and even offer benefits to same sex couples. The BSA is only responding to the realities of our society as we have progressed and become more embracing of diversity. Christ would welcome it.

  • dustman Nampa, ID
    Feb. 5, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    "Proposing opening leadership positions to men with expressed same gender attraction in a morally straight young male exclusive organization flies in the face of logic."--JOnathan Eddy, first post on this string.

    According to the Boy Scout Handbook, Morally Straight means: To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

    I dont think "morally straight" has anything to do with sexual orientation according to the Boy Scout Manual. But it does says "faithful in your religious beliefs." Even the Boy Scouts seem to recognize that we all don't have the same religious beliefs. But if this flies against your religious beliefs, by all means, leave the Boy Scouts. Otherwise, you can still run your scout org. the way you've always done it.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Now the President has put his political prowess into the mix, it will be interesting to see what the Boy Scouts of America do with his unwavering hand as with a lot of other things this President has done. I am sure religious organizations have loved what he has done for abortion and for contraception with his benevolent acts of kindness for the whole world.

    We will endure but trials of life have never been easy when it comes to morality of people and places.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Joe Blow, do some research on gay men. Facts are stubborn. How many 'partners' do they on average have during their lifetime? You can start there. Not even close to heterosexual males or females.

    Here's what I hope happens, Joe Blow. The BSA is cowardly and will make a non-decision other than letting local councils decide. Membership will drop like a rock. Those left standing will allow gay scoutmasters. Cases involving gay scoutmasters will hit the legal system. Parents will sue the BSA for allowing gay scoutmasters to the tune of million$. It will put the BSA out of business and traditional scouters will find out who the board of directors are and will boycott their businesses.

    BTW, this isn't about gay rights, the gays want to put the BSA out of business. Period. Payback for what they consider bias against their lifestyle. They could care less about any boys. IT's all payback and the board of directors apparently aren't smart enough to figure out the 'end game'.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    If they pass this, I will not give one more can to food drives--I will take it to the bank myself, and I will never donate a single dollar more to the Boy Scouts.

  • BlakeR St Joseph, MI
    Feb. 5, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Religious organizations will always have the legal right to discriminate in order to promote and remain true to their religious beliefs and protect freedom of religion that is so important to our society. And that will always be seen as acceptable by society. And while civic organizations, like BSA, also have a legal right to discriminate, such discrimination increasingly is becoming unacceptable to society. BSA will need to decide whether it wants to be a civic organization that supports and accommodates all varieties of religious belief, including non-belief, or if it wants to be a civic organization that is supported largely by specific religious organizations and supports and upholds the values and beliefs of those organizations --we have reached that fork in the road in which a decision has to be made. Given that choice, seems as obvious to me what choice they should and will make.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 6:56 a.m.

    Changing this policy would be a grave error.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 6:26 a.m.

    The BAA has to make a decision. Do you want Intel's money or do you want tostand by your principles and keep the rank and file. If they pass this, Friends of Scouting will drop like a rock and many of us who have volunteered hundreds of hours will redirect our efforts to other causes. Part of the attraction of the BSA is that they have stuck by their principles even whendoing so is hard. If they make the change, they are telling every scout that it is ok to cave when you feel the heat.

  • Linguist Silver Spring, MD
    Feb. 5, 2013 5:02 a.m.

    Kicking out Scouts who are coming to grips with who they are is wrong. It sends exactly the wrong message to them-- that who they are is bad, no matter their faith, no matter their behavior, that society has a point in stigmatizing and harming them.

    I first became aware that I was gay around age 10, and by age 14, I was able to write in my journal "I am a homosexual."

    That that honesty and self-recognition would be grounds for being kicked out of an organization designed to instill moral values, including honesty and personal integrity, simply astounds me.

    NO 14 year old should be sexually active, and that isn't what this debate is about. It's about honesty-- that sexual orientation simply is. It isn't chosen and, with few exceptions, seems pretty immutable (it certainly was in my case, and I was exceptionally motivated NOT to be gay).

    It's time to stop sending mixed signals to young gay people. Are they accepted and loved for who they are or not?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 5, 2013 4:48 a.m.

    "Proposing opening leadership positions to men with expressed same gender attraction in a morally straight young male exclusive organization flies in the face of logic. "

    Are you suggesting that heterosexual women should not be leaders in a boy scout troop either?

    Or heterosexual males working with the girl scouts?

    Time and time again, people seem to confuse same sex attraction with pedophilia. This is not supported by research.

  • Down under Pullman, WA
    Feb. 5, 2013 1:17 a.m.

    I agree. I have already pulled my annual contributions as I felt they lost their way several years ago.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Feb. 5, 2013 12:00 a.m.

    Proposing opening leadership positions to men with expressed same gender attraction in a morally straight young male exclusive organization flies in the face of logic. It's just not a wise thing to do. Parents are well advised to consider the potential for regrettable consequences. Overnight campouts and such. Safety must be the overriding consideration.