Quantcast

Comments about ‘Boy Scouts to make decision on gays this week — or are they?’

Return to article »

Published: Monday, Feb. 4 2013 10:00 p.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
The Bike Guy
Sag Harbor, NY

The Scouts were originally a non-sectarian group for ALL families, not just Christian conservatives. The Scouts elsewhere (UK, Canada, France, Mexico, etc.) do NOT discriminate.

We can each believe that the other is immoral. I believe that people who drive giant gas-guzzling SUV’s are immoral. But I don’t have any desire to keep them or their kids out of the Scouts.

We are a two-dad family and we have no objection to our kids hanging with Mormon or Baptist parents or their kids. If we meet at the Jamboree after the ban is gone, please introduce yourselves. You’ll see that this two-dad family is not terribly different from your own.

Baden Powell himself defined the universal spirit of Scouting. In his words:

"Buddha has said: 'There is only one way of driving out Hate in the world and that is by bringing in Love.' Scouting's aim is to produce healthy, happy, helpful citizens, of both sexes, to eradicate the prevailing narrow self interest, personal, political, sectarian and national, and to substitute for it a broader spirit of self-sacrifice and service in the cause of humanity."

jimhale
Eugene, OR

It would seem the BSA National Board has the cart before the horse.

They are apparently prepared to vote to change the policy on membership when prior consideration of a different issue seems appropriate.

Before the BSA can legitimately change its membership policy it should first consider changing/repealing the Scout Oath from:

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

To:

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally confused.

The gay community has long used the word straight to refer to others. The whole gay rights movement is all about societal approval of unstraight behavior.

The lawyers are right. Changing the national policy will eventually allow courts to declare local councils that maintain the ban to be at variance with statutes/ordinances governing discrimination.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

We allow gay and lesbians full membership and fellowship in the LDS church.

So, shouldn't we show that same level standard with our affiliation with the Boy Scouts?

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Gay activists are the bullies here! The irony of all this is watching them discriminate and bully anyone of faith while claiming victimization by the very people who believe in choice. If they could just learn to live with their decisions, whether they believe its by choice or not, they would suffer like everybody else in society that has burdens and crosses to bear, but don't spend their whole lives announcing to the world how discriminated and burdened they feel. Grow up! For the record, let their be no mistake, this isn't about the Boy Scouts or corporate America; its about elimination from any societal institution the belief in God, which, for them, must also be eliminated. God is compassionate and merciful, but He won't be mocked.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

It's time to extricate the scouting movement from religion.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Facts are stubborn. How many 'partners' do they on average have during their lifetime?"

In light of the current discussion, wouldn't it be more relevant to determine how many sexually abuse younger boys? Just saying...

And what you describe in your post. Is this sincerely what you "hope happens"?

Pretty sad, I must say.

Obama10
SYRACUSE, UT

For all of my LDS friends and fellow Scouters can you not see the parallel here? The LDS church has "softened" its stand on homosexuality and this will spill over into Scouting as well. If the vote to allow homosexuals doesn't happen this year, it will happen in years to follow. The LDS church will come out with an official endorsement of Scouting and life will move on. To the pedophile issue. As long as "two-deep" leadership principals are followed, young men should still be safe.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

' I am sure religious organizations have loved what he (President Obama) has done for abortion and for contraception with his benevolent acts of kindness for the whole world.' - JWB

Title:

'After 40 years, Roe v. Wade's legacy is deep divide across U.S.' - By David Crary - 01/21/2013

By the Deseret news.

So, President Obama was elected in 2008.

Abortion has been legal in America since 1973.

So please, do not 'blame Obama' for abortion.

It makes you look uninformed.

PGVikingDad
Pleasant Grove, UT

Question to my fellow LDS: If a gay person can be a member of the Church and hold a temple recommend, then why can't a gay boy be a Scout? Be careful and thoughtful with your answer.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Safety must be the overriding consideration. - Jonathan Eddy

'Boy Scout Files Give Glimpse Into 20 Years of Abuse' - By KIRK JOHNSON - NY Times - 10/18/12

'Officials with the Boy Scouts fought in the courts for years to prevent the release of the documents — more than 15,000 pages detailing accusations of abuse against 1,247 scout leaders between 1965 and 1985, with thousands of victims involved...'

1200 cases of child abuse reported in the BSA.

Zero gays allowed in the BSA.

If safety is your main concern then why, are you concerned with a group that cannot even join?

When 1200 cases of a abuse are reported WITHOUT them?

Dear Deseret News staff. You allowed this comment on other stories.

Choose a standard.

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@xscribe

"Why do people always feel they have to talk for God. If God exists........."

Your last post is simply false or a lack of knowledge on the subject of God and or religion on your part. We are not robots, nor are we controlled in any way. There is a freedom to make your own choice To whatever that decision may be, it results in a consequence or maybe a reward. Are there better paths than others? Absolutely!! Can you rebound from a bad choice or that consequence? Absolutely! To say that the final choice is God's and to say if it pass's it is because of God to believers, and too imply to many that God is only the answer of good choices is completely regurgitated to spark argument. I would think that the BSA is not on God's priority list and he is leaving this up to the people. What we do from there and how we and the BSA respond is completely up to us as well. Just a guess, but come on. Don't look for the opportunity to start fire, look for ways to control one set or put it out.

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@Open Minded Mormon

Only if they are not actively pursuing their selected behavior. They have to be a non-practicing gay to hold callings.

@bandersen

Very well said!

@Hutterite

I rarely ever agree with anything you say, but your last post is dead on accurate. It should be taken out of religion.

If the BSA wants to imply religion, support God and religion, that is fine. But get scouts away from religious organizations that run the troops, packs, etc.

California Steve
Hanford, CA

Satan has long desired to defeat the BSA. Perhaps the time has come.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

Utahbruin: Maybe you need to go back through and read all the posts and see how often God is mentioned. And I will go out on a limb right now and say that there will be posters, if this does not pass, that say it was because of God! People thought God played a role in the Super Bowl, for crying out loud!

New to Utah
PAYSON, UT

BSA should stick to their principles the bullying by the left wing press especially the Washington Post and major corporate sponsors to cave is enormous but don't cave. The Scout Moto and Scout Oath and the whole scouting moovement will be jeopardized and cultural bullies will have scored another triumph. Having served for decades in scouting I'm alarmed at how quickly morality and decency has evaporated but until now BSA was a pilar of integrity.

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@PGVIkingDad

A gay person can be a member and hold a temple recommend. A practicing gay person can be a member of the church but cannot hold a TR. A gay boy can be a Scout, even still today before the vote. Its a gay leader who is not permitted. I assume, why? Well, MY answer. Scouts is affiliated with many religions, as stated in the article. Many, not just LDS wards and stakes. Scouts was founded on certain principals. One of them being belief and faith in God and the standards set by religions. Many religions do not agree with gay practices, I will say me included. I believe it is a choice, not something you are born with. However, since churches do not agree with it, I think they fear the idea of it being pushed on the boys. Is this true, does it happen, I don't know. But I understand the fear. Just as you don't want your kids hanging out with those who do drugs, you don't want them to involved with gays. It is what is percieved as wrong by some that they choose to stay away from. Just my thoughts.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Pagan,

"1200 cases of child abuse reported in the BSA.

Zero gays allowed in the BSA."

And yet some people hide their orientation and get into the Boy Scouts anyways. The very definition of a heterosexual precludes them from ever abusing a Boy Scout.

Again, by definition of nature, only a homosexual(or bisexual) is capable of abusing a boy scout. Heterosexual men are only attracted to women.

Yes, some have lied by hiding their orientation.

And it is these cases we are trying to prevenet.

Its all about scout safety. That ia paramount.

Ted H.
Midvale, UT

To PGViking Dad and Open minded Mormon:

You forgot(or at least failed to mention one big point). People who have homosexual feels yet dont ACT on those feelings are welcome with open arms in the church. Gays who are actively dating members of the same sex are NOT open to all rights that other Mormons have. No, they can't enter the temple. No, they can't hold any calling they could otherwsie. No, they can't hold a temple recommend.

Now, if the policy you are suggesting the Boy Scouts implement is similar then perhaps you have a point. But if you're propsoing the Boy Scouts welcome "acting" homosexuals, then no you couldnt be more wrong comparing your proposed plan to the current church structure. Sorry.

jimhale
Eugene, OR

PGVikingDad -

Here is my thoughtful response to your question to which I affix my name, noticing as I do, that you did not affix yours to your thoughtful question:

You are partially right in posing your question and partially wrong: A person who claims same-sex attraction is allowed full fellowship in the Church and can receive a temple recommend. But such a person who acts on those attractions can be denied both a temple recommend and full fellowship.

Under current national Scout policy a person in either category is prohibited from serving as a scout leader or from being a Scout.

To make the Scout policy aligned with the LDS policy, the BSA would have to say: It's okay to believe you are gay, but if you act out you are not able to participate.

No person with same sex attraction should be called to serve as a youth leader for those of the same sex. Unlike some troops of the BSA, LDS sponsoring organizations do not call women to lead Boy Scouts. Nor do we call men to serve as youth leaders in the Young Women's organization. We have good reasons for so doing.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

Ted H.
Midvale, UT
To PGViking Dad and Open minded Mormon:

You forgot(or at least failed to mention one big point).

==========

I did not forget, nor did I fail to mention it.
I said, and I quote"...same level standard ..."

here it is again:

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00
We allow gay and lesbians full membership and fellowship in the LDS church.

So, shouldn't we show that same level standard with our affiliation with the Boy Scouts?

9:56 a.m. Feb. 5, 2013

--------

BTW - I look forward to your reactions, when the LDS Church comes out with a policy Statement in-line and no different that what I and Obama10 nd other "open minded" commentors have already mentioned.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments