Quantcast
Faith

Religious organizations 'disappointed' by latest offer on birth control mandate

Comments

Return To Article
  • EnosEugenius Shenandoah, IA
    Feb. 4, 2013 7:25 p.m.

    A lot of people appear to be missing the point, and therefore are ignorant in their accusations and insensitive in their statements justifying what THEY view as an "acceptable" compromise. The issue is not about birth control per se; it's being forced to pay for it. It is completely true that a Catholic (or other religious) employer can't keep its male employees from buying "male birth control," but the issue is not control over others, it's freedom of religious and moral choice. If I as an employer am against birth control of any kind, due to my religious convictions, I can't prevent my employees from using it, but I shouldn't be forced to pay for it -- and that goes for BOTH male and female methods. The difference between this and war actions is that individuals do not participate in war; governments do. I have no control over whether we fight or invade another country; that is a governmental decision. However, contraception and other elective medical procedures and decisions are individual decisions. Your arguments are invalid.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Feb. 4, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    @ Lost in DC
    Baccus0902,
    "Why do you write “Ammendments” to make it appear I have misspelled the word when the word does not appear in my comment?"
    Just because it tickles me :)

    My dear friend, I don't whorship President Obama. But, I like him a lot. I think he is perhaps the most decent, caring and honest man that have been the President of the United States in a long, long time. Do I agree with him 100%? NO!

    I am no saint. But the study of religion, all of them, is my favorite pass time. In my research of different philosophies, I have concluded that Christ and his teachings are the most beautiful, easy and practical teachings for the individuals and society.

    I believe in free enterprise and free agency. Yet, I think a Laisses Faire economic system is repugnantly unfair,is the equivalent of social darwinism. Therefore, I reject the actions of the Republican Party.

    Free agency, rights and responsibilities should be equal for all people in society. All workers should be entitled to universal Health Care. It should be up to their principles how they manage their health. Not the employer and not the state.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Feb. 4, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    @ The Truth,
    It is fascinating how we can see the same person or object but see something or somebody completely different.

    The first Obama Administration was extremelly frustrating to people like me, leftist, liberal and Christian, because it seemed to us that President Obama was always going out of his way to reach political compromises with the Republican dominated Congress, to always get a resounding "NO!" from them.

    The majority of this country supports President Obama. Why is that? Perhaps because most people see the President with the same lenses I see him.

    Going back to the issue of religious not been happy. Well, is not all religions and not the majority of people who attend church.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 4, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    Paying for birth control, and abortions should be voluntary. Just that simple.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 4, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    Baccus0902,
    Why do you write “Ammendments” to make it appear I have misspelled the word when the word does not appear in my comment?

    you do not dispute my claim BO is attacking our constitutional rights – you just complain about the bill of rights (we wouldn’t need amendments if they had it right the first time), and previous occupants of the WH as you worshipfully praise BO.

    Pagan,
    One need not be a religious organization to defend religious convictions.

    Split hairs as much as you like, you still have zero evidence that I am against birth control for women...
    Where have I said they should not get it? All I’ve said is religious employers should not be forced to violate their religious convictions to buy it for them.

    Furry,
    Insurance companies do NOT provide it, they are the intermediaries between the PAYERS – employers and employees, and providers. Employers are still being forced to PAY for it no matter how BO parses words.

    Hank Pym,
    Nothing is preventing women from choosing to buy birth control

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 3, 2013 11:08 p.m.

    @lowtherb1:
    "... since the federal government funds abortions, and you, I assume, pay federal taxes, are you participating in abortions?"

    Certainly, taxes go for things we would like to see our money go for. But this issue is about requiring a religion to provide money (insurance) for something that goes against the religion's principles and teachings. There is a significant difference.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Feb. 3, 2013 7:08 p.m.

    to lost in DC

    Pagan raised a perfectly valid point. To answer the question of Why?

    Because it allows women to chose their own destiny.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Feb. 3, 2013 6:47 p.m.

    @Baccus0902

    Obama may support some christian principles.

    but his methods are certainly NOT.

    Obama's methods involve teaching hate for certain groups, peoples, and organizations,

    and Depriving others of rights and properties to impose his "principles",

    and otherwise running rough-shod over the constitution.

    Nothing Christ-like about it, no love, no choice, no agency,

    just the choices he allows you.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 3, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    The government does things everyday that "someone" is bound to find objectionable, even on religious grounds. Given the back bending (no cost to religious objectors) accommodation proposed, it should be crystal clear that this fight is purely political.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 3, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    I believe in free agency. However, the environment needs to be created first. Force these businesses which call themselves religious institutions offer the same health care as the rest of us business owners. Here, the garden of Eden is set. Now, let the children, (the workers) decide what they will do with heir agency. If they want to use it for birth control, fine. If not, fine. But they need to have agency.

    Taking away agency and trying to shelter people was never part of God's plan

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 3, 2013 7:18 a.m.

    To lost in DC 8:30 p.m. Feb. 2, 2013

    Furry,
    I do not understand why these so-called "health” institutions think they are justified in trying to impose their positions and dogma on everyone else contrary to the protections provided in the US CONSTITUTION. Liberal dogma trumps that out-dated old rag anyway.

    ------------------

    They're not trying to violate anything. Insurance companies should provide identical complete, comprehensive and basic health care coverage to everyone in return for a premium paid to the company for the coverage, and each person should then be able to decide what parts of the coverage s/he wants to use (example - as a woman, I would have no use at all for the portion of insurance covering me that would treat male impotence). Employers shouldn't get into health decisions or insurance coverage at all. Issue resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 3, 2013 6:35 a.m.

    Shouldn't those who are adamantly opposed to abortion be the strongest supporters of birth control?

  • George Bronx, NY
    Feb. 2, 2013 11:37 p.m.

    @worf

    While its unfortunate that you feel insulted, there is no constitutional right to not be.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 2, 2013 10:14 p.m.

    Government paying for birth control is an insult?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 9:35 p.m.

    No religious organizations are fighting female birth control, just the unconstitutional mandate that they violate their religious convictions. - lost in DC

    How can you claim to be defending religious convictions...

    and claim that you are NOT, a religious organization.

    Again, the title of this story is...

    ‘Religious organizations 'disappointed' by latest offer on birth control mandate’

    Split hairs as much as you like, you still have zero evidence to be against birth control for women...

    but not, for men.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Feb. 2, 2013 9:14 p.m.

    My dear Lost in DC,

    It is funny you keep on quoting "Ammendments" to the Constitution. So, our inspired founder fathers didn't get it right the first time. Therefore, it was necessary for other inspired people to fix it...... How convenient!

    I don't know about you. But I have not seen a true Christian as President Obama in the White House for a long time. President Obama seems to embody the principles of justice and fairness that Christ preached and the founders of this nation conceived.

    DN rejected my previous post for containing "according to the moderators" vulgarities and obscenities. But I just wanted to say to you and others that the Religious groups, Jewish, Christian, Muslim (usually monotheistics) are usually fighting for political control. Which make sense since they believe to have the truth.

    I believe in God and His inspiration. I have difficulties with men and their greed and ambition.

  • Another Perspective Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 8:54 p.m.

    Lets keep in mind here that birth control really isn't an evil in that it doesn't hurt anyone. Religions teach good principals, but unfortunately they also make up arbitrary rules that burden peoples lives needlessly. This isn't harmless. It degrades peoples happiness and it diverts peoples energy that could have gone towards them resisting real evil.

    It isn't right that women get less health coverage just because they work for a religious organization.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 8:30 p.m.

    Hutterite,
    Which of YOUR constitutional rights should we violate, then tell you to just lump it and move on? The 5th, 4th, 14th, 13th? Which?

    Furry,
    I do not understand why these so-called "health” institutions think they are justified in trying to impose their positions and dogma on everyone else contrary to the protections provided in the US CONSTITUTION. Liberal dogma trumps that out-dated old rag anyway.

    Pagan
    No religious organizations are fighting female birth control, just the unconstitutional mandate that they violate their religious convictions. Nice obfuscation and misstatement, though.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 6:42 p.m.

    You can go into any gas station and purchase male birth control.

    Why the religious argument against female birth control?

  • Leopard Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 6:38 p.m.

    In my philosophy I am required to fight evil, in myself and in the world. I do not expect to win all battles against evil. In the Bhagavid Gita, it is explained that the duty of a human was to fight against evil and give the results to God. And yes, if my government and country participate in abortions and I pay taxes and I live here, I expect that I will suffer from the collective karma.

    The battle against government funding of abortions has had some wins, and with the ascendency of the Obama administration, some loses. But just as the abolitionists had their wins and loses, in the end, the abomination of slavery in this country was abolished. The Americans knew that slavery was horrific but they tolerated it. The turning point came when President Pierce used the force of government and declared all citizens could be deputized to capture runaway slaves and the military could be used to take slaves back to their owners. I see a correlation with the force of government now being used to force citizen who do not participate in the barbarity of abortion to now participate against their concience and their will.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    I do not understand why these so-called "religious" institutions and employers think they are justified in trying to impose their positions and dogma on everyone else. Just let them provide generic insurance to their employees, and let the insurance companies decide what to cover consistent with US law. If they don't want to do that, then add the amount of the insurance premium to their employees after-tax compensation and provide a source where the employees can subscribe to a group insurance policy for their health coverage.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    To lye 4:41 p.m. Feb. 2, 2013

    I was going to say basically the same thing, but reference the fact that there are a lot of Americans who had their taxes go to funding an invasion and occupation that was not supported or acceptable in either law or equity. A war that was dispicable, horrific and hideous. As an American, I endured that even though I found it to be against my conscience and my moral convictions.

    Contraception, including emergency contraception, is a very real part of basic health insurance coverage for women. It is sad that these so-called "religious" institutions and employers aren't willing to provide basic insurance coverage for their employees

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Leopard: "@Hutterite, how about you being forced to participate in something you think is dispicable? Something you think horrific and hideous."

    You mean like $700 billion per years spent on the DoD or special tax breaks for private jet owners? That guys who genuinely believe that the Earth is 9,000 years old serve on the congressional Science Committee and on school boards?

    There's a lot thats despicable, horrific and hideous that we already have learned to put up with. Religions can learn to "put up with" treating their employees fairly, too.

  • lowtherb1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    @Leopard, since the federal government funds abortions, and you, I assume, pay federal taxes, are you participating in abortions?

  • Leopard Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    @Hutterite, how about you being forced to participate in something you think is dispicable? Something you think horrific and hideous. Something you think will bring negative karma? Would you lump it? No one is moving on and acquising their mortal soul to a corrupt culture's convenience.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    And they're going to remain disappointed until they get exactly what they want, if not more. That's why they need to be told to lump it, so we can move on with this.