Comments about ‘Utah Scout council urges BSA to delay vote on admitting gay Scouts and leaders’

"We see recently from the Penn State incident, the damage that can be done by a single homosexual child predator."

Sandusky was not gay. Sandusky was a sickening child predator and a pedophile. He was after all, married to a woman for many decades. Trying to imply that all pedophiles are homosexual is completely ignorant.

This is a delicate situation. Personally, I do not think a boy should be denied membership based on his sexual orientation; provided that he follows the same scout law that all other boys are expected to follow.

Too often the problem is - is that in order to be all inclusive, standards must be lowered. The president now wants women to participate in combat. Supposedly women will have to pass the same level of physical ability as the men, but no doubt that will change in order to achieve prescribed quotas. Such has happened before. And so, there is the chance that standards will eventually need to be altered in order to ensure that everyone can be 'the same'.

Progress is not about changing requirements so that more people can 'belong', it is about improving ourselves and reaching for higher standards; not eliminating them.

Just heard on the radio that 17% of Marines will pull out of the Military if women are allowed on the front lines. Will there be enough female warriors to fill that 17%? It is doubtful. The same is true with the BSA. My guess is that there are a lot of gays shouting for joy over the BSA conssesions. Yet a very small number will actually join scouting; they are just happy that they shook things up. While a large number of youth will probably be pulled out of Scouting. (The Baptist church has already said that they will.) So the bottom line is, there will be far fewer boys helped by a good program. That is sad because in our challenging world our youth need all the help they can get. Perhaps the gays should just start their own troops.

Re: JSB

The LDS Church requires men (priesthood holders) to be present at all times during Girls Camp. So is the LDS Church unable to grasp your logic as well? Or is your logic flawed?

Re: JP71

If I "hear through channels" that Thomas Monson is a communist, does that make it true as well?

@isrred,

At the very least, Sandusy was bisexual. Yes he was a pedophile. He was also gay(or bisexual).

The definition of homosexual is being sexually attracted to someone of your own sex. Clearly, Sandusky showed that he was that.

I am not suggesting by any means that all pedophiles are homosexual. Only those that are attracted to members of their same gender. Like Sandusky.

The Boy Scouts is a great organization that has the safety of scouts #1.

I am simply pointing out the damamge that was done by one homosexual(Sandusky). I know many great homosexual people. However, Boy scouts are boys. And we just need to protect those boys from people who potentially are sexually attracted to them.

It is a sad but true part of life today unfortunately.

I hope the Boy Scouts can continue to build great leaders and protect the boys.

Re: Riccar

Well since you heard it on the radio, it must be true! After all, the rhetoric on the radio is NEVER hyperbolic and statistics are never made out of thin air.

Just FYI, the same claims were maid when they desegregated the military. It didn't come crashing down then either.

Nor will allowing gays to be in the Boy Scouts destroy the organization.

@Chris B

So using your logic, we cannot have public school teachers anymore because regardless of their sexual orientation they will be in charge of students they could potentially be "Attracted" to and victimize.

The LDS Church already allows openly gay (but not "practicing") men to serve in leadership and Bishopric positions. These positions already have supervisory responsibility over young men's organizations, and they go on overnight camps with the boys in their groups.

For the LDS Church to bristle at this move by the BSA, and to oppose it or threaten withdrawal of support, would be silly and hypocritical.

70+% of the chartered organizations in the BSA are sponsored by religious organizations that believe homosexuality to be a sin. If the BSA turns its back on these organizations it would be an irreparable mistake. And yes, many of us believe it is a sin. Therefore, to us morally straight would mean morally "straight". And no, I don't think this makes me "backwards" or "evil" or "misinformed". I have gay friends. We get along. But I would not feel comfortable sending my son on an overnight camp with them as leaders. Just like I would not feel comfortable sending my daughter on an overnight with male leaders. This is not to say that I think just because he is gay he is going to molest my son just as I would not assume a man would my daughter. But I would still not be comfortable with it. Allowing gay leaders into the BSA is not the same as abolition. Give me a break.

Facts are facts: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints stopped its affiliation with the Girl Scouts based on the defemination of the girls. It was left to individual families to participate but overall the LDS Church doesn't support the Girl Scouts. If this passes then the standards that are set by the Church will be diminished.

Again as someone said that the new website was not to get gays and lesbians into the Church but those who don't want to live the lifestyle of Pagan and others. If they are living the lifestyle they will be REQUIRED to for go that lifestyle or not enter into discussions with the LDS Church. Some of you really need to read that website and the information provided. It isn't for ALL gays and lesbians.

The other is that it is already pretty much a for gone conclusion for many in authority that the LDS Church will disassociate itself with the BSA. If you don't know it then you'll be surprised. The LDS has 1/3 of all scout units in the BSA. Just think what that will do to them if the LDS Church leaves.

@isrred,

Fortunately, almost all interaction between teachers and students is seen by dozens of other people at the same time. Thus, any potential danger surrounding homosexual teachers can be mitigated by having many other people present.

The difference with Boy Scouts is that depending on the size of the scout troop, how many scouts show up to any given activity, and the nature of the activities(such as camping) there is increased risk if a homosexual person was a leader, for that leader to be alone with a single Bo Scout or a very small group.

There is strength in numbers, which is why we dont need to worry quite as much in the school system.

Again, it is all about Scout safety. We all just want the Scouts to be safe. It is our duty to protect them.

Mukkake— “People who think this way lack an practical understanding of how the world actually functions.”
I’m well aware that homosexuals are all around us but is it “practical” or wise to have a gay man take boys on a camping trip? Would you want Sandusky to take your boys on a camping trip?

JoeBlow—Gay men at girls’ camps isn’t the issue. You’re just trying to muddy the water.

Isrred—Sandusky was gay. He was messing with boys and he was a man. Go to the dictionary.

Claudio—I have been a priesthood adviser at a girl’s camp. There were lots of adult female leaders around for all the activities and I didn’t sleep in the camp or cabins. I slept in my van a hundred yards away from the camp. It’s your logic that is flawed.

A Scientist,

You are alarmingly misinformed. Try again.

"70+% of the chartered organizations in the BSA are sponsored by religious organizations that believe homosexuality to be a sin. If the BSA turns its back on these organizations it would be an irreparable mistake."

The troops can decide on their own whether they want to allow gays in the troop or the leadership position.

I suggest that you all calm down and give your local scout troop your input. They, not the BSA will be making the decisions that affect YOU.

NO ONE is forcing anything on your troop. No one is forcing your church sponsored troop to do anything they are opposed to.

Let me put it in a way that some may be able to understand.

The federal government (BSA) allows each state (chartered troop) to make their own choice.

See how "right" that is?

And when the scouts go to a district/council/national event?

@Claudio

It depends on who your channels are.

So what does "gay" mean? Does it mean someone is attracted to the same sex? That he's having romantic relationships with the same sex? Does it mean he's having sexual relationships with the same sex? I was a boy scout and I discovered years later that I was attracted to men. I don't call myself "gay" because I have never and will never have have a romantic relationship with anyone other than women to whom I find myself genuinely attracted, and sexual relations only after heterosexual marriage (preceded by full disclosure).

So what is the right thing to do for potential scouts and scout leaders like me who have an attraction they can't help having, but who are free from any inappropriate actions with others and unshakably committed to remaining chaste? Welcome them with open and loving arms! In all things judge these boys and leaders by their commitments and actual conduct and not by what your stereotypical imagination cooks up. Give them a chance and show them the same love and trust and hold them to the same standard of conduct as your would expect from men and boys without this condition.

Hostess Cake is going out of business because it failed to adapt to society's evolving values (mothers started valuing healthier food for their children). Any religion or organization who does not stay up with our society's values will also fail or become irrelevant. The majority of Americans no longer tolerate discrimination against homoesexual inidividuals. The BSA realizes that, but as we can see, Utahns are a little behind the curve (which often happens because the bubble here).

I was wondering whether anyone here had heard the same appended news release (radio) that I caught, but only the last part. What I heard was that, now, an atheist group also wants the same considerations for them that homosexuals are seeking. Then what about doing one's "duty to God"? How many parts of the Scout Oath need to disappear to satisfy all the possible agitating groups of the coming moments?

Gracie - the athiest group can want it all they please, this is the BSA, a private organization, making public their decision to review their policy regarding membership. Nobody is forcing them to change and in fact they have won court cases in the past supporting their decision to ban gay scouts and scout leaders.

And has been stated, time and time again, nothing is being changed in the Scout Oath. It is simply the assumptions made by some regarding the wording of the oath that is now in question. The BSA makes it clear what the meaning behind their oath is, and it does not now, nor has it ever been, their stance that "morally straight" meant no gays.