Comments about ‘Utah Scout council urges BSA to delay vote on admitting gay Scouts and leaders’

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Published: Thursday, Jan. 31 2013 7:15 p.m. MST

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bsutefan
Salt Lake City, UT

...I have serious questions about how such a sharp and immediate change in structure of the BSA will be managed, and who will manage it. If the LDS church is paying registration fees to the national BSA, who then distribute to troops who don't represent LDS values (which I believe includes sensitivity and inclusion), then why not just start the LDS boy scouts, and keep funds under your control? It would be far more cost effective. Then run it the way you want.

Will the chartered troop get to decide standards for admission? Will the Counsel? The Greater Salt Lake Counsel is the largest counsel, yet was not included in the discussions and were blindsided by this. I'm confident the LDS church was made aware of the national intentions prior to the GSL Counsel, due to GAs on the national board.

I am absolutely in favor of postponing the vote until the details can be understood and discussed. There are so many questions beyond just sexual preference that should be discussed with the same sensitivity and attention. Rushing this decision will not help progress, and could create future problems and fractured relationships.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@md
"I think your idea that our society is in a positive point in history is warped."

The amount of war around the world is practically at historical lows, as are other things like slavery, while the rights of women are at all time highs, as well as life expectancy, standard of living, and other things. I think we're doing pretty good.

@AZRods
"God is being taken out of our schools, our pledges, prayer out of school"

As a Christian, I'm glad God isn't in our public schools (by the way, kids can still pray, they just can't be a distraction during class nor can the school lead classes in prayers) because that's how we can have religious freedom, by not establishing a religion.

@concretebo
"I just do not think these things need to be public."

So you never hold hands with your opposite-gender significant other or anything to show who you're with? (Or if you're single like me, do you plan on never doing anything like that should you get in a relationship?)

JP71
Ogden, UT

I have heard through channels that if this happens that the LDS Church is going to pull out of BSA and just expand the young men program.

Cinci Man
FT MITCHELL, KY

Ernest T.

With your latest limited talking points, I fully agree. In those specific areas, society is better. And I think it is important to remember more of the Church's policy on same gender attraction and all other sexual activity. Sex is reserved ONLY for marriage and that is defined by the church as 1 man and 1 woman. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the church's implementation of a tolerance for gays in leadership as well as in scouting is that the oath's commitment to 'morally straight' will continue to be 'sex is reserved for marriage, defined as between 1 man and 1 woman'. Whether heterosexual or homosexual, society, especially children, are affected negatively by non chaste lifestyles. Society may one day have families defined by many men and many women being together and kids having no need to have or know who their parents are. So far, that has not been as challenging as it may become in the future. For health, legal, emotional, and eternal reasons, families are important.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@aunt lucy
"does your logic include polygamy "

Sure why not? I see no reason why Joseph Smith should've been persecuted the way he was though I suppose you disagree. As long as everyone in it is happy with the arrangement *shrugs* whatever floats their boat. Of course polyandry would have to be legalized along with it, fair is fair.

"and other more progressive ideas such as the lady who wanted to marry her cat?"

Cats can't consent so she's out of luck.

@Riccar
"As a society most things are much worse in 2013 than they were 50 years ago. "

Psychologists note that there's a way the brain works that makes people look upon the past with rose-colored glasses. Need I remind you that 50 years ago we had race riots?

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

aunt lucy - So I ask Pagan, Two for Flinching, and others who argue this equality to all logic does your logic include polygamy and other more progressive ideas such as the lady who wanted to marry her cat?

?

So, allowing gays into the boy scouts allows people to marry their cat? What an absurd comparison.

1) There have been cases of child abuse WITH a gay ban in place. So the claim that gays will join the boyscouts only to abuse them has now been proven false.

2) If the Boy Scouts of America really is about supporting the boys, why are they choosing to ignore gay ones?

3) You cat has no factual ability to give consent.

UTAuley
Taylorsville, UT

Coach Biff - From the BSA Scout Handbook:

...and morally straight.
To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

pb
Vernal, UT

I will not contribute to the Boys Scouts anymore. If everyone decides not to contribute, let see how long they'll last. They should the the message if their funding is crippled or stopped.

Coach Biff
Lehi, UT

Ok, UTAuley, I'll bite. Do you think this includes or precludes the practice of homosexuality? Do you think the authors of this statement intended to define homosexuality as "virtue"?

v600
,

Yo pienso que hay que tomar mas tiempo, y ver en reflexión, pensar que haría Sir Lord Baden Powell, si estuviera vivo hoy, porque él es el fundador de este gran movimiento para los que creemos en Dios. Desde Chile mi apoyo por seguir con los mismos valores de siempre como Scout.

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

JSB:
[Why is that so hard for people to grasp?]

Because it is so unbelievably ignorant and backward to think that way. People who think this way lack an practical understanding of how the world actually functions. I'm gonna tell you a huge secret: If you've ever used a public shower at a campsite, gym, school, public pool etc. you have showed with gay and bisexual individuals.

It's that simple. The only change here is that we will allow qualified gay scout leaders, and boys who need scouting just as much as straight kids, to not have to lie and feel ashamed anymore.

The simple fact of the matter is simple: Scouting is already filled with gays, straights, and bisexuals. Safety has nothing to do with sexuality. The safety of a scout should be treated the same way whether the scout leader claims to be gay or straight.

Plus, many pedophiles get married and have kids. Just because someone is married doesn't mean they are straight. They could be gay and hiding it, bisexual, or straight but with pedophilia towards boys.

Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

The LDS Church should split with BSA and set up their own program. They could sue for some of the infrastructure of the organization (camps) and then both YM and YW would have access to these camps. Gay LDS youth could then participate alongside all other youth... under the guidance of LDS church leadership. Costs would drop (no six-figure salaries). Simplify the awards systems (fewer badges). Couples could be called to administer/serve in all the camps. LDS public school teachers and seminary teachers could be tapped for various summer camp programs.

Like BYU, we should go independent!

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

We see recently from the Penn State incident, the damage that can be done by a single homosexual child predator. No, obviously the majority of gays are decent people.

However, it only takes one to do seriously damange to many young people, as we saw from Sandusky.

I hope we can find a way to include all, but protect our children.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

I have a question for those of you who are more familiar with how the LDS church runs scouting.

I assume not all of the wards have their own scout program, perhaps the average is one scout program per stake. I don't know. So is it possible that, if the BSA were to make this change, that the church might just leave it to the individual wards to decide what to do with their local programs and some will keep it while others will not?

bandersen
Saint George, UT

The LDS church does not need the Boy Scouts, the Boy Scouts need the LDS church. I have three Eagle Scouts and as long 'morally straight' continues to mean something, it will have my support. If the Boy Scouts cave in to abdicating a belief in God and His laws, it will cease to exist as an influential organization for building young men.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Gay men should not be taking young men camping for the same reason that heterosexual men don't take young women camping. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?"

So can gay men take young women camping? Just wondering...

Lightening Lad
Austin , TX

There have always been gay kids in the Boy Scouts, had sponsors not sought to discriminate against these boys life would have continues as it was. We had three kids in my troop who displayed easily recognizable leanings in the direction of homosexuality and I can't think of anything any of them may have done to cause problems for anyone else. Few boys that age are all that involved in anything sexually to begin with and they certainly aren't recruiting other kids to join them. Lift the ban, which like all other bans is useless only bringing bad publicity to the instigator of the ban. Scouts are not doing too well as it is with kids that spend every non sleeping minute out of school playing video games, let's be inclusive not otherwise.

UTAuley
Taylorsville, UT

Coach Biff
I don't believe the authors intended sexual preference to be a consideration in that quote either way.

"To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open." Seems self explanatory to me: honest and open with who you are and how you interact with others.

"You should respect and defend the rights of all people." Pretty clear -- "all people"...sounds inclusive to me.

"Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs." - Don't swear or (as my scoutmaster used to put it) 'cause a ruckus' and as for the religious beliefs, note it doesn't distinguish which religion, only that you're faithful in your own religions beliefs.

"The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance." - Which of the scout values do you feel make reference either way to who you or your scout leaders are sexually interested in - gay or straight? I don't recall any references either way, but maybe you had a different scout handbook than me...

Values of scouting: good conduct, respect of others, and honesty (also taken from BSA handbook).

isrred
South Jordan, UT

"We see recently from the Penn State incident, the damage that can be done by a single homosexual child predator."

Sandusky was not gay. Sandusky was a sickening child predator and a pedophile. He was after all, married to a woman for many decades. Trying to imply that all pedophiles are homosexual is completely ignorant.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

This is a delicate situation. Personally, I do not think a boy should be denied membership based on his sexual orientation; provided that he follows the same scout law that all other boys are expected to follow.

Too often the problem is - is that in order to be all inclusive, standards must be lowered. The president now wants women to participate in combat. Supposedly women will have to pass the same level of physical ability as the men, but no doubt that will change in order to achieve prescribed quotas. Such has happened before. And so, there is the chance that standards will eventually need to be altered in order to ensure that everyone can be 'the same'.

Progress is not about changing requirements so that more people can 'belong', it is about improving ourselves and reaching for higher standards; not eliminating them.

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