Comments about ‘Utah Scout council urges BSA to delay vote on admitting gay Scouts and leaders’

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Published: Thursday, Jan. 31 2013 7:15 p.m. MST

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Cinci Man
FT MITCHELL, KY

spring street

Perhaps the reason the numbers are low in the specific areas you mention is because other areas like teen sexual activity combined with contraception are way up. And I have to question your 'crime rates are low' statement. They can cook the books to look however they want. But the facts show that more kids and adults are using illegal drugs than ever before. The statistics are alarming. But they ONLY affect the crime rate when people are arrested for the crimes. It's illegal to text while driving in most places, but it doesn't affect the crime rates unless people are arrested for those crimes. Statistics show an alarming rate of speeders, drug users, drinkers, and texters (all of which kill people) are way up. Combine that with the bazillions of people having sex outside of marriage and society is certainly not as rosy as the picture you paint. But there are many good things in the world that ARE good too. I see those too.

BWalton
Harrisonburg, VA

Since chartered organizations can still choose their own rules of membership and leadership in their units, I'm wondering what the ultimate concerns are. According to BSA press release, "chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs."

There are chartered organizations or potential chartered organizations, including many churches, that would prefer to include individuals currently excluded, particularly gay parents. And the values of Scouting would definitely strengthen society if we could broaden the audience of youth who see those values. In Scouts, precise definitions of belief in god and morally straight are left to families and their churches.

One caution, however, would be that there should still be a strong policy against individuals using Scouting as a platform for non-Scouting agendas.

aunt lucy
Looneyville, UT

So I ask Pagan, Two for Flinching, and others who argue this equality to all logic does your logic include polygamy and other more progressive ideas such as the lady who wanted to marry her cat? Just where do you draw the line or is there no line? The same argument can be made for these other concepts as well. Does your interpretation of equality really include all? Is it just a free for all-fair for all world with no boundaries? I will stick with God's boudaries and continue to be an advocate for his commandments.

Red
Salt Lake City, UT

We have weak leaders who want to change the Scout Oath and Law.

I'm sure if they could vote on it they would change God's Laws as well.

Yes, God loves us all, but he created his own laws that we can choose to obey or not.

Boy Scouts, Please Stand tall and honor your Scout Oath.

Everyone, Please honor God's laws.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Have any of you who claim the world is getting worse actually studied past civilizations?
I challenge any of you to name a past civilization better than our current one.
Read the Old Testament, women were possessions, slavery and murder was accepted. I don't even need to mention what the Romans, Greeks, Huns, Khans, etc were like.
Seriously, gays aren't ruining the world. People have been gay since the beginning of recorded history and yet here we are, safe and secure. They haven't ruined anything.

Some people simply need to take a look at things in perspective. The world is better then ever before. Much better.

isrred
South Jordan, UT

"I am not anti-gay. I just do not think these things need to be public.
I think whatever a person does behind their bedroom door is a private matter.
No reason to publicize ,I also believe in civil unions for insurance coverage and
inheritance purposes but, again Does not to be aired out all over the place.."

Yeah exactly! I'm not anti-heterosexual I just don't think they need to be so public about it. Those darn kids going to their school dances flaunting their heterosexuality in everyone's face. And hey I even think they should be able to get married for insurance and other privilege but they don't need to air it all over the place--the audacity of some people sending out wedding announcements and inviting hundreds of people to celebrate with them in airing it out all over the place. And then they even have the nerve to put pictures of their families on their desk at work! Why must some people just "air it out all over the place"?

JWB
Kaysville, UT

The BSA and Councils over the years have been hit with lawsuits on abuse, whether leaders or the members. I am sure it is a sensitive subject for them, sort of like the various churches, organizations, and schools and universities that have been hit with law suits dealing with abuse issues. It may not be the right direction but I am sure the national BSA and chartered groups have looked long into the answers.

This definitely brought up discussion quickly and in large numbers on the various media forums. With gender as an issue with the military, in the workplace, and now with the BSA, big decisions have to be made. The Scout law and oath have a duty to God and morality in almost every word the creed has in it. The BSA may not be looking at the values of Lord Baden Powell. Will Eagle Scouts still put on their resume that they are Eagle Scouts? Will the Friends of Scouting dollars go away?

This is the time to prepare to meet God and people have to make choices with their agency. Our nation is for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Sin never was happiness.

Cinci Man
FT MITCHELL, KY

Ernest T
The world is a much better place in so many ways. And allowing those with same sex attraction into Boy Scouts as leaders is not a problem for me. I would have a problem with any scout leader who is sleeping around, involved in porn, doing illegal drugs, drinking to excess, swearing, disrespecting property, robbing, stealing, cheating, or any other unsavory thing. But I also know we are all imperfect and need to strive to be better, no matter who we are. And I am not so naive to think that the world is getting better in the areas I mentioned above. More politicians are corrupt, more teachers are corrupt, more religious leaders are corrupt, more in Hollywood are corrupt (especially morally), more sports 'heroes' are NOT role models, and more people are blind to the wickedness that needs to be quelled. I raised 4 Eagle Scouts, and they found their greatest role models as Scout Leaders. I hope that can continue for my grandsons. I pray we can preserve that ideal. Honest, True, Chaste... Scout Leaders are always a good thing, no matter what their attractions are.

Riccar
Moses Lake, WA

I do not know how so many are saying that things are so much better now. They must be too young to see the past. As a society most things are much worse in 2013 than they were 50 years ago. Some people just think that everything has to be fair. If things were meant to be fair we would have all been born that way. We were not; therefor we accept what we are and appropriately adapt. I have always loved athletics, but because of limitations, I have not been able to participate; therefore I watch rather than play. There have been some sad times and I've said "Why me?', but I have never expected others to lose their freedoms to make room for me. There have been sexual abuse cases in the BSA in the past. Boys have grown up suffering for years. This just opens the door for this to happen more often.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Cinci Man: Congrats on your eagle scouts.
Being gay doesn't mean a person is bad, unchaste, untrue, dishonest, etc.
My main point is society is improving. It's better than it's ever been. Just over a generation ago many Americans were in favor of segregation. Less than 200 years ago many Americans believed one person could actually own another person.
Hopefully in another generation, gays will no longer be fired, beaten and treated differently. We can keep getting better. If the scouts want to ban gays, that's their decision but people simply cannot claim treating gays humanely is ruining society.

deseret pete
robertson, Wy

The LDS church invited them to return but not to continue their lifestyle. Jesus invited all to come unto Him by faith, repentance and baptism.--- not to continue their former lifestyle, but to show their change by keeping the commandments.

Bluto
Sandy, UT

The end is near.

When the Catholics, Methodists, and the LDS start their own organizations, the BSA will then be free to lower it's standards in order to get back their precious Corporate Sponsorships.

Maybe a few billionaires could establish an endowment for the Scouts and tell the Corporate dictators to take a hike.

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

Most comments regarding this article have focused on the commenter's opinions on whether or not it is a good idea for the BSA to revise its policy regarding participation in Boy Scouts by homosexuals. However, I think they are missing the deeper subtext of the article, which is the real dilemma that the Utah BSA Councils find themselves in.

As long as the principles of Youth Protection, Safe Scouting, and Two-Deep Leadership are maintained, the proposed policy change would not result in any change in how scouting functions on an operational level, other than to provide development and growth opportunities for youth and leaders who would have otherwise been excluded.

Conversely, the vast majority of Chartered Organizations sponsoring local BSA units in these Councils are religious organizations that each has definite moral standards, and these Councils would not survive if these religious organizations severed their ties with the BSA (not a foregone conclusion, but certainly a possibility). Even if these churches all continued to sponsor the BSA, there are many here who may stop supporting Friends of Scouting, which is the lifeblood of these Councils.

This is probably why the Great Salt Lake Council is expressing concern.

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

The writing is on the wall, folks. Time to expand Duty to God and say goodbye to BSA. No rechartering or Friends of Scouting! BSA will die on the vine without LDS money. Shame...but the work goes on.

Coach Biff
Lehi, UT

What is the meaning of morally straight? Inquiring minds want to know. As an Eagle Scout, I always presumed that it meant just what it sounds like. If homosexuals want to create an organization which supports their worldview, then by all means go for it. We have no "right" to join any organization just because we choose it. Why this is such a hard concept is beyond me.

Calif granny
PLEASANT GROVE, UT

@ S. Andrew Zaelit Rush? You call this a rush? It's about 50 years late in coming. To exclude gay and transgender kids and adults from participating is so wrong. It is about time for BSA to do the right thing. Fear and ignorance has prevented this for way too long.

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

I don't know about other organizations, but if the suggested change passes I doubt the LDS Church will disaffiliate with the BSA. They'll complain and take advantage of religious exceptions proposed, but none of the affiliated scouting programs will be as effective without the BSA and they know it.

The BSA affiliation helps with getting local chapters access to sites and resources, and while an independent LDS scouting program might do well in the Intermountain West, LDS scouting programs outside this region will be at a disadvantage. Even LDS young women's programs take advantage of many of the resources the LDS Church's affiliation with the BSA provides.

And after a few years of having to go to Jamborees and other scouting events where there are other chapters attending that don't discriminate, the LDS Church's scouting program will realize that nothing has changed. Just like now, you won't even be able to tell, and shouldn't ask/care/worry, who is gay or straight.

Besides, a non-BSA Eagle Scout award will be worth less than a BSA one.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ aunt lucy

Yes, equality and freedom should be for all. I have no problem with polygamy, so long as it is a union between consenting adults (not children). I do not support people being able to marry animals or objects for the same reason. A cat is not a consenting adult and can't sign a marriage license.

bsutefan
Salt Lake City, UT

I have been involved as a youth leader in scouting in the salt lake valley for the past 7 years. I have mixed feelings on scouting, but with regards to the current discussion, let me take a different approach.

The LDS church is making wonderful strides in reaching out to members of the gay community, and should/will continue to do so.

If the decision were simply about inclusion, it would be a different story. However, there are major questions with national funding that need to be addressed. All BSA registration fees (which are paid for by the LDS church) go to the national BSA fund. Friends of scouting stays within the counsel, and troop fundraisers go to the troop. If the national BSA is claiming that each individual charter gets to decide, how are the national funds distributed? Will there be troops that set their own standards that are far different than the LDS church (and i am not speaking of sexual preference specifically)...

JSB
Sugar City, ID

Gay men should not be taking young men camping for the same reason that heterosexual men don't take young women camping. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

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