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Published: Monday, Jan. 28 2013 8:10 p.m. MST

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CordonBleu
Park City, UT

skywalker

I wonder how Aggie fans would respond.

Was unranked BYU(8-5) better than #16 Utah State(11-2)?

If not, why not?

54-10
Salt Lake City, UT

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

.....and yet BYU still hasn't beat Utah for the last 3 years.

Now scurry off to Tulsa.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@2BCSWINS (and most of the other Utah 'fans' on this board)

I think it's interesting that when confronted by the fact that BYU has had a consistently better/more successful program than Utah over the last 8 years, you immediately fall back to the "3 straight, 8 of 11, absolutley [sic] dominate overall series!" rhetoric.

As always, you once again are showing that the only metric of success for Utah fans is beating BYU.

That's about as little brotherish as it gets.

Once a little bro, always a little bro. I love Ute fans...U guys are so cute, coming on BYU boards, stomping your feet and trying to get BYU fans to think U are relevant.

We just smile, pat U on the head, remind U of how BYU has been, and will continue to be, the dominant program in the state of Utah (made all the more evident by U all posting on here trying to convince us that BYU isn't), and then tell U to enjoy being in a high-chair with Colorado at the "big boys" table while BYU continues on its path of national relevance.

So whine away, Utes. It's adorable.

Go Cougars!

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@2irreleventandancient"wins'

kyle has not "done it twice", he did it once and it was certianly a great accomplishment, all credit to him on that one. But overall BYU has done better. More wins, more rankings in the final polls. Just like one game does not make a season one season does not make an 8 year tenure. Sure a school can get some mileage out of 1 win or 1 season, but overall they are measured by all of the games in a season and all of the seasons in the coaches tenure. kyle has not had as much success winning games nor has he had as much success having winning seasons, nor has he had as much success being ranked, as Bronco has during their tenures.

You can't claim otherwise because those are facts. utah had one high point that was higher than any of BYU's high points during that time but utah has had less high points overall. Just the facts, learn to deal with it.

deductive reasoning
Arlington, VA

skywalker

You've created a great little Catch 22 for our friends on the hill.

If they answer your question truthfully without any qualifiers, they completely invalidate their head-to-head proves superiority argument.

If they answer your question based on their head-to-head argument, they'll not only look foolish, they'll completely invalidate their SOS argument, since one game carries more weight than an entire season.

Obvious solution, punt, and spin some irrelevant nonsense that completely ignores the question.

Can't wait to see the reaction when BYU fans start claiming that BYU's 1942 2-5 team was BETTER than Utah's conference championship winning 6-2 team.

Oh wait, that was so long ago is doesn't count, except of course, in the overall series record.

arrrrrgh, it's all so confusing when you try to logically follow the spin from the kids on the hill.

mussingaround
Palo Alto, CA

Duckhunter

"utah had one high point that was higher than any of BYU's high points"

True, but Utah also had several low points that were lower than any of BYU's low points.

2012 - 5-7 losing season and no bowl
2011 - losing to 3-10 Colorado
2007 - being shut out by 2-10 UNLV 0-27
2005-2007 - losing to every MWC bottom dweller - New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, UNLV

When citing their record against "bcs" teams and Top 25 teams, Utah fans conveniently forget about those low points, and then wonder why Utah hasn't been ranked more often.

For a program that thinks of itself as one of the "big boys", only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history not only shows Utah's true stature on the national stage, but shows where Utah really stands in comparison to BYU, which has SEVENTEEN AP Top 25 finishes, including FOUR during Bronco's tenure.

Black&Blue
St George, Utah

The constant bickering from both sides is just ridiculous. Here is a good analogy for fans to consider.
While Utah is winning the battle (Head to Head), BYU is winning the war (better overall records, higher rankings).

I guess fans have to decide what is more important to them?

Y Grad / Y Dad
Richland, WA

CordonBleu
Park City, UT
skywalker.

"Was unranked BYU(8-5) better than #16 Utah State(11-2)?"

I'll take a stab at that... OF COURSE NOT! The Aggies had a fabulous season and represented the state of Utah very well. It was one of the few bright spots of our season to have beaten the best team in the state.

Alabama is the NC, Texas A&M beat the NC, but 'Bama is still the national champ.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@54-10

Why can't our friends simply reference head to head games? It's such a simple concept, but one they can't grasp. It's the only program I know who thinks they win; even when they lose. Who thinks they are better than there opponent, even when they get beat beat by them. I guess anything but man up and give credit where credit is due.

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

spokane ute

"Why can't our friends simply reference head to head games?"

Because one game does not a season make.

Head-to-head wins give you just that, head-to-head bragging rights.

But, they don't prove you're a better team.

The whole concept behind rankings is evaluating teams according to their entire body of work, not just a single game. Better overall season, yields higher ranking and equate to better team.

It's a simple concept.

Utah won the battle. BYU won the war.

TroyTown
Anaheim, CA

If I understand the dialogue correctly, Utah's 2013 season will end on September 21st when the Utes lose to BYU.

After that, no matter what Utah does, even if they miraculously go on to win the PAC 12 title, and win in their first Rose Bowl, and finish in the Top 5, Utah fans will still acknowledge BYU as being a better team than Utah.

Right!

I've got some lovely beach front property that Utah fans might be interested in.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@mussingaround

I agree completely.

@spokane ute

You're floundering badly. Regroup and come back with something insightful.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

truecoug1:

"We just smile, pat U on the head, remind U of how BYU has been, and will continue to be, the dominant program in the state of Utah"

No you don't. You just roll over and play dead when you take the field vs. your big brother on the Hill, and then make excuses about how the better team didn't win. You don't pat us on the head. You get paddled out of the stadium. The most dominant team in the state is the one that with the better record these past 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 years.

And that would be Utah.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Solomon Levi:

"The whole concept behind rankings is evaluating teams according to their entire body of work, not just a single game."

The entire body of worked proved Utah was the better team.

First and foremost, we won the head-to-head matchup. And winning 3 in a row, and 8 of the last 11 shows there's nothing "flukish" about Utah beating our little brother in these contests.

Secondly, and somewhat less significantly, just look at our common opponents. Utah went 2-2 vs. OSU, WSU, USU, and the Y. The Y went 2-2 vs. OSU, WSU, USU and the U. Utah wins the edge in entire body of work by beating WSU by more points, losing to OSU by fewer points, and winning the head-to-head matchup.

Only a desperate Y fans would try to compare their wins vs. Hawai'i, NMSU, Idaho, et al. to Utah's losses vs. teams like UCLA, Washington, ASU, etc. There's just no comparison. The ONLY legitimate comparison are games between USU, OSU, WSU, and the head-to-head game. Those are the only relevant "body of work" games.

Edge: Utah.

OCoug
Ogden, UT

Wow over 130 comments. I'd say the Cougars schedule is having a huge impact on the Universities' Publicity. If Hollywood teaches anything any press is good press.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

For those of you who believe USC's problem isn't exclusively Kiiffin and ineptness beyond just simply recruiting, check-out their current recruiting class, per ESPN.com--

USC

2013 verbal commitments: 14
Spotlight: The Jason Hatcher drama continues, and now it looks like the No. 14 defensive end in the country has re-committed to the Trojans after de-committing a week and a half ago. If it holds up, it's a good way for the Trojans to stop some of the bleeding that had gouged the recruiting class in recent weeks.
ESPN 150 members: 9 (Su'a Cravens, S, Murrieta, Calif.; Jalen Ramsey, CB, Brentwood, Tenn.; Max Browne, QB, Sammamish, Wash.; Kenny Bigelow, DT, Elkton, MD.; Leon McQuay III, S, Seffner, Fla.; Michael Hutchings, OLB, Concord, Calif.; Chris Hawkins, CB, Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.; Steven Mitchell, WR, Mission Hills, Calif.; Ty Isaac, athlete. Joliet, Ill.;
ESPN 300 members: 14 (Jason Hatcher, DE, Louisville, Ky.; Justin Davis, RB, Stockton, Calif.; Nico Falah, OT, Bellflower, Calif.;Torrodney Prevot, DE, Houston; Khaliel Rodgers, OG, Elkton MD.)

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1. Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).
BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools. And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule. They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion." How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

"You do realize, don't you, that Bronco with FOUR AP/Coaches Top 25 finishes in the last 7 years, has nearly as many as AP/Coaches Top 25 finishes as Utah, with only FIVE, has in its ENTIRE HISTORY?"

Ahhhh, yes, conveniently omitting the all-important stat--SOS....Such as in 1984 when byu's SOS ranked #96 nationally out 98 total D1 schools ranked.

But, SOS is not relevant, correct?

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

"It's laughable that utah fans whine about how 'difficult' their schedules have been, when the utes have at least 3 or 4 patsies on their schedule every year. Yet, even with four gimmies - No. Colo(5-6), California(3-9), WSU(3-9), and Colorado(1-11) - on their 2012 schedule, the sorry utes only managed to win 5 games, and without BYU's gift scoop and score to utah, the utes wouldn't have made it to 5 wins."

During the same season referenced above, byu also played Washington State at home as well as Weber State which, coincidentally, happened to play against & lose to the above-referred to Northern Colorado at home in Ogden and finished the season looking up to Northern CO in the standings....Furthermore, byu played both Hawaii and Idaho at home, in addition to closing-out their regular season in fashion down there in Las Cruces against New Mexico State.

Finally, UTAH was up 24-7 in the 4th-Quarter against byu, hit cruse-control and just simply fell-asleep, out of sheer-boredom....Just see their unforced muffed-punt, for instance....And this was w/myriad key-players out for UTAH.

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

@Anti BCS & other BYU fans, so many of you are against the BCS. I am as well even though I am glad to be in the PAC 12. The hypocrisy however that I see in many BYU fans is that they focus on polls and rankings so much. these rankings are much like the BCS. they are a beauty pageant and BYU has a brand name. There is much history to be proud of as a BYU fan. But of course they have an advantage over Utah in getting ranked. Brand name, wideband following across the country, and ESPN exposure help BYU get ranked. also these stats and records that some BYU fans put out are inductively subjective. It's not like Utah doesn't have similar claims of seniority.

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