Comments about ‘Boy Scouts of America to vote on lifting ban of gay Scouts and leaders’

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Published: Monday, Jan. 28 2013 4:30 p.m. MST

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jttheawesome
Scranton, PA

From what I see in these comments, the main point seems to be entirely missed here. Scouting has always been, from the beginning, an organization with faith-based moral values and ethical practices. "Morally straight" in the BSA Oath means precisely what it says. Allowing practicing homosexuals to lead these boys, is to expose them to the almost irresistible temptation to "experiment" with some of their more vulnerable young men. This has already happened too many times, as the unfortunately long and growing list of abuse cases within the BSA all too well demonstrates. Insofar as admitting young men who either admit to being gay, or think they are, the code of conduct remains fixed - for now. Any kind of sexual misconduct is forbidden, as an honor-bearing scout, no matter what or to whom one is attracted to. By allowing individual troops to determine what is or is not "morally straight" is to virtually destroy BSA from the inside out, and the code of conduct which has stood for over a century, will vanish.

Jack
Aurora, CO

OK, all you LDS folks who want the Church to drop Scouting, or make it like the Young Women.....you just don't get it. Boys learn differently than girls. Boys learn best when outdoors, when challenged, when they achieve goals. Girls learn best when they feel good about themselves. This is taught in Scout leader training, most school teachers understand it and if one looks at Elder Christofferson's address from last Conference, you see it there too. Trying to make boys learn like the girls do is a recipe for failure. Scouting was adopted to replace the Church's own scouting program in 1913 and those reasons are still valid today. If your ward is losing boys at 14, fix your Varsity program! If the program is weak the boys will leave! Don't blame the program for the shortcomings of the leaders, trying to present a small slice of Scouting and then wondering why the boys leave is blind....

Outlier
Vancouver, BC

We went through this in Canada years ago.....there is no "ban" at the National level on gay leaders, however, each sponsor is allowed to have their own rules for admission, which for the Church would mean no pracicing gays could hold the calling of a Scout leader. For the past decade+ this has not been an issue here.

As for a gay youth, I don't think they were ever "banned" in Scouts Canada (such a rule would be more restrictive than in the Church, where no such rule exists).

WACPaddingOurSchedule
pocatello, ID

jttheawesome
Scranton, PA
From what I see in these comments, the main point seems to be entirely missed here. Scouting has always been, from the beginning, an organization with faith-based moral values and ethical practices. "Morally straight" in the BSA Oath means precisely what it says.

By allowing individual troops to determine what is or is not "morally straight" is to virtually destroy BSA from the inside out, and the code of conduct which has stood for over a century, will vanish.

___________

I can see non religious sponsored troops suffering as a result of this. Individuals and groups will refuse to donate or support. Because they belong to the BSA which also includes church sponsored troops, which can set their own limits.

Jack
Aurora, CO

"morally straight" is defined in the Scout Handbook, page 23, as "your relationships with other should be honest and open. Respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions and be faithful in your religious beliefs."

So, who is missing the point?

mattrick78
Cedar City, UT

"Homosexual men should not take boy scouts camping for the same reason that heterosexual men should not take Beehive girls camping."

@JSB How do you know that celibate Gay LDS men are not already taking boy scouts camping?

gchris
rock springs, wy

One of the definitions of "morally straight" in the LDS faith is abstinence from premarital sex. If a young man who happens to have a sexual attraction to other young men never acts on his urges and never announces his sexual preference, who would know? "Don't ask, don't tell" is the perfect policy for scouting because there is nothing to be gained by either the scout or the organization from making a big deal of it. Homosexuals seem to have a need to announce to the straight world that they are gay. I, for one, really don't care as long as that preference doesn't affect my life. I do think that adult supervision of camping activities will take on new significance if openly gay boys are bunked with straight boys, just as if teen-age girls were allowed to share tents with teen-aged boys.

Dutchman
Murray, UT

gchris,

Don't ask, don't tell policies do not work either for the individual or the organization. Many individuals with same sex attractions need to, want to and do talk to their spriritual advisors about those attractions. That is what sprititual guidance is all about. Helping others when they seek guidance. I don't think Jesus Christ would just tell people with same sex attractions to sit quietly and keep your mouth shut. Under the current BSA policy anyone who discusses these attractions to a spritual advisor would have to be excluded from scouting even if they were not practicing. This is what is being corrected here with the new policy. No one in the LDS church is suggesting that a practicing gay person would hold a leadership position or have active participation in scouting.

dustman
Nampa, ID

Jack
Aurora, CO
"morally straight" is defined in the Scout Handbook, page 23, as "your relationships with other should be honest and open. Respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions and be faithful in your religious beliefs."
___________________________

As a Scout Leader in an LDS unit, I agree with Jack.

Hippie Farmgirl
Farmington, UT

If you think gay leaders would not have an affect on young men you have never been active in theater. Grooming. Always grooming.

twspears6007
Bakersfield, CA

As a member of both the LDS Church and the BSA I believe that there are many obstacles facing the pending change to allow Homosexuals into the BSA program. I would like to address the position of the LDS Church on Homosexuals as members of the Church. The truth is that as a homosexual member they cannot be active in their lifestyle the Church is quite clear on this. The LDS Church accepts the homosexual member but not the sin of an active homosexual. As a Scoutmaster I believe that The Nation BSA should not be making changes in its present position of not allowing homosexual members because they cannot exclude active Homosexuals from its program. This is the difference between the LDS Church and the BSA. I am quite confident that the LDS Church will reject any promotion of active homosexuality in its Scouting programs and I hope that next week when the National BSA Board meets and votes on this issue they will keep the present position of protecting the values of 103 years of scouting and stay the course of honesty and integrity in supporting moral and decency in all of its programs. Sincerely, Trenton Spears

cjb
Bountiful, UT

If the BSA does this they are asking for trouble. Probably many gays could be trusted to not act on desires, why tempt them? They should be given respect as fellow human beings, but it is not worth the increased risk.

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

Happy Valley Heretic says he is "sorry for those who believe that homosexuals include anymore pedophiles than the heterosexual population."

16% of pedophile offenders (the vast majority of whom are men) target exclusively boys. Homosexual men do not comprise 16% of the male population -- it's more like 2%. Thus, whereas the large majority of homosexual men are not pedophiles, the population as a whole contains more than 8 times as many pedophiles as the comparable heterosexual population.

Not politically correct, but math is math.

Noonhigh
Bountiful, UT

Do you send your kids to public school?

Scouting is like a public education, however so far most LDS people send their kids to a private Scouting education. There are both advantages and disadvantages. So if the LDS church shuts down its private schools, all those kids will have to choose no school/home school vs public school.

I have in the past at time sent my kids to a school sponsored troop and a LDS sponsored troop at the same time. Double the education for almost double the price. It was worth it but when my son decided to do more sports we now only have time for one Scout troop. Since I have seen the advantages for myself and since I can choose my "scout school" I have no problem with my son attending a "public" Scout troop.

You can not buy another program like Scouting overnight, it has taken a 100 years. My kids don't have another 100 years to wait.

Oh, go ask you dad when was the first time or the last time he attended a city meeting or wrote a senator/congressman, I bet you he says when he was a Scout.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

I appreciate the stress and the strain that has been levied against the BSA now for several years. I also appreciate the proposed wording that individual units would be allowed to function as the see fit.

Concerns that I might have otherwise is that law suits might be levied against any units which resisted allowing Gay leadership. As many have stated before, this is a private organization and should be allowed to operate as they see fit.

Those who claim discrimination are not required to participate and are free to create their own private institutions. The very core of freedom hinges on much of this issue. As American citizens we have long enjoyed freedoms which allow us to act as we see fit; so long as those actions do not infringe upon another's freedom. We may freely eat junk food, or purchase a car in the color of our choice. We may associate with people of our choosing, be they well mannered or crude. But the choice is ours to make - and should remain that way.

Feliz
Kaysville, UT

As I read through these comments I'm surpised at how many times someone has said they are an active member of the LDS church and applaud the BSA and this new change. Are there really this many active members who think this way or does the homosexual community have an army of militant bloggers posing as active members or perhaps in some cases posting multple times under different names?

Dekka17
Sydney, NSW

It's amusing that BSA have even had this policy in place. Perhaps after seeing that the US Armed Forces haven't collapsed with the removal of DADT, they realise it's not as big an issue as they thought.

Let's hope civility and reason are the outcome in this vote. Let's also hope that young men and leaders, regardless of their sexual orientation, can mingle and develop a friendship built on trust, respect and all of the good virtues espoused by the Scout movement.

twspears6007
Bakersfield, CA

Can someone answer this question if I was homosexual either active or not active could I receive a Temple recommend Sincerely, Trenton

chinookdoctor
PASADENA, CA

Why are so many DN subscribers so hateful and unhappy about life? It is so odd to me...you dislike gays, you dislike gay young men, you hate Obama, what next? Will you hate women who still love their liberal children who voted for Obama and are gay? I for one welcome the change. It's time institutions are no longer allowed to rampantly discriminate based on sexual orientation. I've been targeted for sexual harassment by more straight married men than any gay woman and I would bet that statistically heterosexual men (married and in their 30s- 50s) are the biggest perpetrators of sexual assault against young boys than any other group. All of my male friends who were physically, psychologically and sexually abused were treated this way by uncles, brothers, fathers and male figures close to the family. All of these men were married or in serious relationships with women, this ban on gays is about people's ignorant and unfounded fears. I hope the church gets out of this business of blatant intolerance and stands behind the BSA if they lift the ban.

Albert
Saint George, UT

The question I have is this: Why does the LDS church lean on an outside organization to help with their young men program? Can't the church devise a YM program to build spiritually strong young men to become successful missionaries, husbands and fathers and future priesthood holders? Why be involved in a private organization with it's own set of rules & regs, policies, procedures, etc...??? I've always wondered why.

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