Published: Tuesday, Jan. 29 2013 12:00 a.m. MST
The phrase “pathway to citizenship” when referring to illegal
immigrants is offensive and has no place in the conversation.So
Bishop, if the proposed amnesty is so difficult, what is to prevent the current
illegal immigrants from just ignoring it? There have been no repercussions to
their lawbreaking, why bother with the expense and hassle? But
really, it is akin to someone stealing a $60k car, driving it for a couple
years, then paying a $2k fine and the back registration, learning how to chang
the oil, and then they can keep the car.As for they fill needed jobs
– there are plenty of legal residents, Hispanic or otherwise, who are
unemployed who would love the construction and service jobs currently being
stolen by illegals.Coming under the right terms, I might be amenable
to some type of legal residency, but NO citizenship for those who have shown
they have little respect for our laws.
Though I favor comprehensive immigration reform and keeping good folks here, I
do not necessarily favor citizenship as the goal. For the young, definitely.
For the mature folks here (raising families) maybe not. Perhaps permanent
residency is sufficient and would be less of a lightning rod. To be politically
palatable, any solution for those here will have to mean closing the door to
more. The borders will have to be tight and employment verification will have
to go into service nationwide.
illegal's I believe are mostrly here to take advantage of the ability to
earn more money. Legal immigrants are as much interested in freedom as creating
wealth. By letting the illegals take advantage of staying here will reduce the
amount of those who are waiting in line. This immigration issue as always is
mostly for the benefit of the politicians.
When asking to enter someone else's home, isn't it appropriate to
knock first, ask permission, then come through the front door? I don't
think it's right at all to break in, then ask permission to stay.
The problems of immigration could be solved, would be solved it the rich and
powerful would allow America to return to an economic system where the little
people had a means of creating sufficient wealth from their labors to survive
and prosper. Seems like most of the events, programs, and
activities of our economic system have evolved into a one way ticket for wealth
to the rich and powerful and the thought of redistribution is propagandized as
evil and unnecessary. People need jobs to convert their mental and
physical labor into money. In other times this redistribution of wealth kept
our economic system running. The advent of cheap labor only compounds the
problems created by our technology and creativity. America will not
survive unless we can fix our economy. And the immigrants may end up worse off
than they were before.
With all due respect there has been misinformation from the other side as
well.The fact that too many of those who have bypassed our immigration
laws have also bypassed the laws against identity theft. A friend of mine in
Tucson is currently attempting to clarify his 10 year old son's work record
and explain that he doesn't owe taxes on the $25,000 that he made while
working in CA last year drywalling houses. The problem is that the IRS insists
that since it is his son's SSN that is listed by the employer then he had
to be in CA drywalling instead of in school in Tucson.Paying a fine and
back taxes doesn't fix the ID theft, but the Gov't is willing to
ignore that because they will only charge them with entering without permission.
"No human being, imbued with God-given rights, is illegal." - ArticleToo funny, Bishop. You're mixing apples and cumquats. God has
his/her laws and countries have theirs. And our country, the US, says if you
want to come here, do so according to the laws of the land. As a matter of
fact, some churches teach that people should respect and obey not only
God's laws by the laws of the land as well.Let's take a
look at some facts... in 1986 the government decided that all illegals in the
country at the time (about 1.5 million) should get automatic citizenship and not
be send packing. And, to justify that action the borders would be secured.
Well, the borders were not secured. Now we have about 11 million illegal
immigrants wandering around the countryside wanting the same treatment...
Citizenship and our jobs. And over the years the Hispanic population has grown
to the point that they are beginning to tell us what our immigration policy
should be... open borders... citizenship for everyone who comes here.
Everybody says we need to secure the borders as a condition of citizenship for
illegals. Securing the borders is a red herring. About 40 percent of illegals
come here on legal visas but forget to go home. Which was likely the plan in
the first place.The author seems to think we need immigrants,
illegal of otherwise to fill jobs. Wake up, guy. We have almost unprecedented
high levels of unemployment... We have millions of Americans looking for jobs.
We don't need immigrants to fill jobs. Furthermore, illegal immigrants are
willing to work for less thus depressing wages to such low levels Americans have
a tough time surviving.My position is that any immigrant who did not
come via legal procedures should never get citizenship papers... unless, of
course, they are willing to get in line and wait their turn. They can stay on,
but no pathway to citizenship.
JohnH made a comment about entering ones house, which I understand, and makes
sense in its own sphere. But I think you also have to throw in the following
idea: If you have, for years, made it known that your house is open to anyone,
and it is not necessary to knock before entering. And for years you provide
snacks and drinks to everyone that enters, as well as letting them know they can
come and go as they please. And have accepted their quaters in the jar as
compensation for the goodies, it seems totally inappropriate to suddenly one day
complain that there are a bunch of freeloaders in your house and call the police
and have them all arrested.Our government (both sides of the divide)
has, for years, turned a blind eye and allowed the situation we now have. We can
maon about it all day, but we need to have some serious discussions about how we
re-hang the "knock before entering" sign and begin again. But I have to
question the idea of suddenly complaining about freeloaders when our government
left the door open a long time ago.I can hear the responses now...
@NedGrimley:"I can hear the responses now..."Well,
Ned. Back in the day they were not arriving in hordes as they seem to be now
and we could assimilate them. Now, we can't. Our government has evolved
where everybody's getting government handouts. Illegals have caught on and
want a share. Plus, they want our jobs and are willing to accept less pay and
under the table, which employers love.Furthermore, illegals seem to
be coming mostly from our south, Latino country. And are gathering in such
numbers they are even influencing U.S. immigration policy. We know that
(Latinos) influenced our recent presidential elections. Which is why Obama got
elected and Romney didn't. Obama announced (contrary to the law of the
land) that certain illegals could have amnesty... a two-year hiatus on
deportation with the promise to extend indefinitely. That got him elected.We are skating on dangerous grounds when we let a particular ethnicity
get enough of a majority to control things. That's what's happening
now. If Congress opens the door to citizenship we will see even more massive
numbers coming in for the same treatment. Then, God help us.
In comparing Obama's plan with the Senators plan one thing stand out loud
and clear. The plan put forth by the senators will delay for years giving a
path to citizenship to those in the country without papers. While Obama's
makes the path much clearer and much shorter. The senators plan will
not provide a path for citizenship until the borders between Mexico and the US
are so tight as to allow no one to cross the border without papers. Unless a
wall similar to the wall the Russians put up in Berlin is built across the whole
border with check points similar to those in Germany those in the US without
papers will never be allowed citizenship in the US. As long as the
economic opportunities in the US are so much greater than those in Mexico the
people would come. They will not be stopped without a wall such as that in
Germany spoken of in the above paragraph. The Republicans will
become more of a minority party as long as they stick with the plan outlined by
the senators. The election of 2014 and 2016 will not be pretty for the
@Well Read:"The senators plan will not provide a path for citizenship
until the borders between Mexico and the US are so tight as to allow no one to
cross the border without papers."Dear Well Read...Consider the following...The borders will never be secured.
Never. There are two many ways around it... flying over it for example. Or
accessing the US through Canada. Further, if the border becomes secured one
day, the next day it could be unsecured... based on several factors including
lack of funding. Then what? Cancel all green cards?And still
further... over 40 percent of illegals come on legal visas but overstay. How
does a secured border solve that illegal immigration problem?
Excellent letter. And let's face some uncomfortable facts. First,
there's simply no effective way to 'secure' our borders. Build a
ten foot fence, and folks desperate for a job will bring an eleven foot ladder.
Second, why on earth would we want to keep folks out whose only crime is
economic desperation. Immigrants are a net economic plus in this country,
whether they arrive legally or illegally. Third, the 'let them come in the
front door' completely ignores the realities of the situation. Getting a
green card is a lottery--this isn't a question of morality, it's pure
blind luck. Open the borders. We have a demographic problem in our country
anyway, open borders is the solution.
wrz - The borders will never be secured. Never. There are two many ways around
it... flying over it for example. Or accessing the US through Canada. Further,
if the border becomes secured one day, the next day it could be unsecured...
based on several factors including lack of funding. Then what? Cancel all green
cards?That is my point. The Senators plan is only a ploy to make it
look like the senators are sincere about immigration. Saying a path
to citizenship will only occur after the boarders are tight is the same as
saying we will never provide a path tp cu=itizedship.The senators
plan will not provide a path for citizenship until the borders between Mexico
and the US are so tight as to allow no one to cross the border without papers.
Unless a wall similar to the wall the Russians put up in Berlin is built across
the whole border with check points similar to those in Germany those in the US
without papers will never be allowed citizenship in the US.
Eric,I am no fan of open borders but I think that any proposal for
them would be a poison pill for any legislation.I think
conservatives expect a regulated border. I cannot see legislation that does not
include that.As to your point about the 10 ft. fence. We may end up
with a DMZ type situation. They can secure it if there is political will
(perfect no, secure yes).
There is a huge lack of compassion towards America's workers, and taxpayers
from American churches and the open border movement. Business should
not get free cheap labor. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He
that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other
way, the same is a thief and a robber." (John 10:1)
You secure the border by enforcing the laws inside the country. You make it
difficult for business to hire those who overstayed their visa, or made it past
the border. E-verify would do this if a business license was at stake after the
third offense. You return people caught here illegally. You remove handouts to
people who are not suppose to be here. That will go a long way to
enforce our borders. It's not just done at border, it's done in the
cities also.Look at Israels new laws, if caught by police or their
immigration people, they are deported without trial. You need to take away it
being profitable to break the laws with deterrents.
The 1996 reform act included bans on people caught here illegally. Rewarding
them with amnesty destroys any benefit of previous reforms. A person here
illegally needs to return home and stand in line, and the 3-10 year ban needs to
stand. Go home, come back legally. As far as service and
construction jobs, I know people out of work in those fields. They deserve the
jobs as citizens of this country first. Then we have visas for those who come
here legally. Families are not "broken" if they live in
other countries. The decision to separate families is made by a criminal act.
They already have a waiver. A person has an illegal presence if here
without lawful permission. Amnesty and unlawful presence, as well as criminal
all fit those who break immigration laws. They do great harm to wages, id theft,
unemployment of citizens, use of taxpayers money without the taxpayers
permission. Some government position holders, business, church
leaders and the powerful open border people do send out invitations. I assure
you the citizens of this country want our laws enforced. We gave out
4.3 million green cards and visas last year. There are lawful channels.
Bishop, since you did not use your title, I assume these are your personal
opinions. Let me explain mine.People who tolerate illegal
immigration undermines all of our labor. It rips at our countries social fabric.
"It's a race to the bottom". The one who plays by the rules is
penalized..." (Vernon Briggs, Cornell University labor economics professor).
We are hurting this countries poor, and fattening the pockets of
business by bloating this countries labor. By supporting illegal immigration,
people are encouraging business and individuals to break our laws (and Gods
commandments). Let's encourage people to come here under the
law. The road is long but the rewards will be great.
@Eric Samuelsen"...there's simply no effective way to
'secure' our borders."Somehow, I don't think
you're going to like it.... but.... here's a solution: "We don't have a fence on the border. In the absence of a fence, laws
are the only way we have of protecting our border. Laws [and the enforcement
thereof] discourage illegal entry into the U.S., just as a proper fence would,
although not always as effectively. Lacking a fence, the law is all we have.
The law is our fence. Take away the law, and you erase our border
altogether." (Arizona Senator Sylvia Allen)"Second, why on
earth would we want to keep folks out whose only crime is economic
desperation."Why on earth would we want to prosecute bank
robbers or shoplifters, whose only crime is economic desperation? Parents are free to take their children with them. Families need not be
"broken up."@Bishop Wester"The
'lawbreaker' charge is a powerful sound bite..."And
the term "undocumented" is a convenient euphemism, and obfuscation,
isn't it. "...creates conditions which encourage illegal
immigration and lawbreaking."The primary condition is disrespect
for the United States, its sovereignty, and its laws.
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