Comments about ‘Gun bill would make concealed weapons permit unnecessary’

Maudine,

....The actual Washington quote is, "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies." It was part of his first State of the Union address on January 8, 1790."
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Thanks so much for that quote. It's so easy for Americans to forget that freedom carries with it the need for responsibility. The former without the later makes freedom more of a menace than than a virtue.

cjb said: I do not have a right to brandish a gun or shoot innocent people.

Well your half right...Utah's 2010 Legislative Session, Rep Stephen Sandstrom introduced and passed House Bill 78 otherwise know as the "Brandishing Bill"

So why we agree on some restrictions being needed, the Utah political hacks believe there should only be restrictions on free speech but a free for all on guns.

Only a criminal would have a problem with the passage of this bill. It will need a little tweaking. This fellow Rep - John Mathis should consider running as a State Senator or Congressman , we need his kind of thinking in America. I'm liking the state of Utah more and more, as it's 7 degrees here and snowing

The photo with this article does a lot to illustrate one of the worst problems Utah has with guns.

Look carefully at the photo. Do you see the problems?

And this guy could well be a "graduate" of our state's ridiculous CCP "training" that provides no training at all.

Notice the problems: 1) Gun is stuffed in the belt 2) no holster 3) no holster with trigger cover 4) finger on the trigger while drawing the weapon.

But he will certainly learn a lesson he won't forget if he pulls on that trigger just a little too much.

If anything, we need much TIGHTER AND MORE STRINGENT training and requirements for packing a gun.

Loosening those already non-existent requirements will be one more disaster.

So ThomasJefferson posts that he will pick and choose which version of a quote by the real Thomas Jefferson he will choose to use as he argues against gun safety.

Wow. What a display of arrogant dishonesty!

This guy is my hero.

Those who think that hundreds and hundreds of people in Utah don't already carry concealed guns are ignorant. They are called concealed for a reason. I think it is unfounded paranoia to think that this will be a disaster and that Utah will turn into the "wild west." If you read the article it listed several states that already have this bill in place. Are you afraid to go to Arizona or Vermont or Wyoming? Gun control activists really need to start looking at why they are so scared of inanimate objects.

I have a CC permit and I'm just fine with the process. My problem is, I know people who are law abiding citizens who I wouldn't trust with a gun in any circumstance. They have no common sense nor the brains to think properly about it.

The possession of a firearm for defensive purposes creates a great responsibility. Both moral and ethical. I'm all for personal defense and defense of other. And if a situation is created where deadly force is the final and only option left to someone, then the person using the weapon for deadly force needs to know that there will be consequences. Mostly mental.

The ability to use a weapon requires training, and a lot of it. Cops are supposed experts and see how many of them miss when the pucker factor increases. Just letting any Tom, Dick, or Harry pack without proper training doesn't excite me. I'm all for constitutional rights as far as the 2nd Amendment is concerned, but just like you can't yell fire in a theater, proper use of guns requires training. Untrained, undisciplined shooters are as big a threat as bad guys/girls.

@dlharman

"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not part of the constitution, that is from the Declaration of Independence.

Columbine had armed security...

when the shooting at Columbine happened.

Same thing at

Ft. Hood and Gabriel Giffords.

Gkwahlberg:

Actually the Supreme Court declared in 1897, "..the Constitution is the body and letter of which the Declaration of Independence is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence.."

Regarding rights:

If we have the right to Life, why do we kill criminals and enemies in foreign wars?

If we have the right of Liberty, why do we prohibit trespassing?

If we have the right of Freedom of Speech, why do we prohibit Libel?

We balance rights, freedoms and law for the largest common good and security.

So far nothing the President has proposed is going to do much more to your gun culture than inconvenience you (speaking collectively of course).

Are all of you so intractable that you can't even consider a little inconvenience if it might reduce the number of violent gun deaths?

Flashback,

"I have a CC permit and I'm just fine with the process. My problem is, I know people who are law abiding citizens who I wouldn't trust with a gun in any circumstance. They have no common sense nor the brains to think properly about it...."
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Your post makes a rational case for conceal and carry permits which I’m not opposed to under state licensing authority.

What’s alarming are proposed laws that allow issuance of a permit on demand or require no permit whatsoever! It used to be that permit applicants had to show cause (e.g. having received death threats, a job transporting large sums of cash, etc.). That reasonableness seems to have been discarded.

There must be responsible criteria for issuance of C&C permits and stringent enforcement of its conditions. At the top of the list would be the obvious (e.g. no record of arrests for violent behavior or threats made to harm someone, being under treatment for severe mental health issues, etc.).

@dlharmon

"Are all of you so intractable that you can't even consider a little inconvenience if it might reduce the number of violent gun deaths?"

I'll answer for my conservative friends: YES

More Americans have died from domestic gun violence, than in all the wars since 1968...

combined.

Although I favor the Second Amendment and the right of a law-abiding citizen to carry conealed, after 30 years of carrying a sidearm professionally, I doubt that most folks would bother to dress properly every minute of every day to carry a concealed firearm. You wouldn't have to worry about everybody at the local Mickey D's drawing weapons on some dumb crook who wasw trying to rob the place.

Flashback Kudos to your comments. By far the best of all the posts on the subject.

There was a woman who shot an armed intruder in Florida. That was a legitimate act of self defense. The problem was you could hear her husband on a cell phone yelling at her saying keep shooting him, keep shooting him. I heard the tape on Hannity. What if the intruder were already down and and no longer a threat. There is a fine line between self defense and murder. To many on the right feel the constitution gives them the right to be a judge, jury and executioner. Most people are not anti-gun or against the second amendment. Most people, myself included are againsst taking the law into their own hands, It is called vigilanti justice and that is what concerns me.

This bill goes the wrong direction. The public is in a mood for more gun control, not less.

This bill is madness. I'm embarrassed that it's even being introduced. Welcome to the Wild West indeed.

The people may be in the mood for more gun control... but the gun control they need should be to have more people able to hit the target, not the type of gun control they're demanding.

Combine this with increasing the permit requirements for the people who wish to get one (for reciprocity reasons, probably to something like 6-8 hours of shooting practice, 4-6 hours of 'class', instead of just the 4 hours of class) and it'd be a great bill. As it is, it's a good one.

And yes, issuing a permit on demand (short of mental illness or inappropriate police record) is a good thing.

Until the drugging of the school children is stopped , nothing is really going to change as far as stopping all of these shootings.

Psychotropic are unbelievably dangerous and that fact has been proven over and over, as they are the catalyst behind all of the shooting mishaps.

Why Washington continues to ignore this fact is really not surprising