You're right Captain Semantics. PAC 12, MWC, WCC, Big West, Big Ten, and
smaller schools is WAY better than PAC-12, ACC, MWC, Ivy League, Big Sky and
some smaller schools.Is mens volleyball a major NCAA sport? NoAre BYU fans proud of their mens volleyball team? YesIs
there anything wrong with that? NoRepeat the same list, but insert
"Utah" and "Skiing" so this ridiculous debate can finally end.
My goodness, you guy would try to argue if I said water is wet.
2fer"If there was genuine interest do you think maybe more than
7% of D1 schools would field a team?"You can blame Title IX for
the lack of men's volleyball teams; there are 328 women's teams.
Almost all Div I football schools have a women's volleyball team, but most
don't have a men's team to help balance the overall number of
scholarships for women and men.It's interesting that you
didn't bother listing the number of D-1 NCAA skiing schools. I'll match the D-1 men's volleyball schools against the D-1 skiing
schools anyday NCAA Div 1 Men's Volleyball (23 total)BYUStanfordUSCUCLAOhio StatePenn StateHawaiiPepperdineCS IrvineUC Santa BarbaraCS Long
BeachCS NorthridgePacificSan DiegoBall StateHarvardPrincetonNCAA Div 1 Skiing (13 total)UtahColoradoBoston ColDartmouthHarvardDenverNew
MexicoNevadaVermontMontana StNew HampshireU
Mass-AmherstWisconsin-Green Baybtw, skiing is a co-ed sport;
so few schools compete, that the NCAA doesn't even have a separate
championship for the men
2fer"BYU fans are proud of their men's volleyball team,
despite the fact that the sport is dominated by UC and Cal State schools. Why
can't Ute fans be proud of our ski team even though non football playing
schools are contenders for the national title? It's not different."Actually, the two sports are very different as far as stature of schools
competing and the level of competition.While men's volleyball
includes a mixture of big name schools, PAC 12, MWC, WCC, Big West, Big Ten, and
smaller schools, NCAA skiing is almost entirely dominated by smaller schools.NCAA Skiing ChampionshipsDenver 21Colorado 17Utah
10Vermont 4Dartmouth 3Wyoming 2New Mexico 1Let's face it, if that were a football conference, they'd be rated
somewhere between the MAC and Big Sky conferences.When only 7
schools have won all 59 NCAA titles, and tiny Denver has won more titles than 5
of the other schools combined, its pretty apparent that the pool of competitors
isn't very deep.U can be proud of your skiing championships,
but let's not fool ourselves here, the competition is pretty sparse and fan
interest is practically non-existent.
@ phoenixPlease show me where I said big-name schools dominate
skiing. I'm drawing a comparison between the two sports, not saying one is
'better' than the other.There are 22 D1 mens volleyball
teams. Twenty-two. If there was genuine interest do you think maybe more than 7%
of D1 schools would field a team? Also, if you're going to bring up
attendance you have to consider where each sport is played. Do you think
thousands of fans would be attending volleyball if it was played outside in the
winter off campus in the mountains? And do you think significantly more people
would attend ski meets if they were on campus in a nice warm field house? Like it or not, NCAA volleyball is dominated by UC and Cal State
schools. 8 of the top 10 teams in volleyball are in California, and 6 of those
8 are UC, and Cal State schools.Your Olympic caliber athlete jab
takes the cake. Zero current NCAA volleyball players competed in London. Utah
alone has several ski athletes who have been nominated to or have already
competed with their respective country's national teams.
2ferBYU is proud of their men's volleyball team because they
compete and succeed against real competition - big name schools and olympic
calibre athletes. Thousands of fans attend men's volleyball games, which
shows a genuine interest in the competition. Hardly any fans attend NCAA skiing
events, which shows a definite lack of interest in NCAA skiing. Your weak
attempt to characterize men's volleyball as a sport dominated by UC and Cal
State schools is laughable, especially when you consider who dominates NCAA
skiing. Historically, the most dominant team in men's
volleyball is UCLA.Historically, the most dominant team in NCAA
skiing is Denver.
@ Riddles in the DarkThis is the statement you are arguing with:
"BYU fans are proud of their men's volleyball team, despite the fact
that the sport is dominated by UC and Cal State schools. Why can't Ute fans
be proud of our ski team even though non football playing schools are contenders
for the national title? It's not different."I guess
you're saying the only reason BYU is proud of their volleyball team is
because UCLA and Penn St. also field volleyball teams? Good for you guys.
Two For FlinchingYou quite obviously are totally clueless about
men's volleyball.It's laughable that you left all of the
big name schools off your list. Here, let me help you.2. Stanford3. BYU5. UCLA6. Penn St7. USC11. Ohio StCompare that to the list of "big name" schools for the 2012 NCAA
championships2. Utah3. Colorado8. New MexicoNotice any difference?Sorry, Vermont (last season's
champions), Dartmouth and Harvard may be well-known schools, but none of them
could even remotely be considered "big name" when in comes to sports.When you have schools like Denver, Alaska Anchorage, Montana State,
Middlebury College, and New Hampshire finishing in the Top 10 at the NCAA
championships, you know you're competing in a small-time sport that
absolutely NOBODY pays any attention to.The NCAA 2013 Men's
Volleyball National Championship will be hosted by UCLA.The NCAA 2013
Skiing National Championship will be hosted by Middlebury College.Enough said.
@ Y's little brotherUC Irvine is ranked number 1. Pepperdine,
UC Santa Barbara, LB State, Cal State Northridge, Lewis, UC San Diego, Cal
Baptist, and Pacific are all in the top 15.I guarantee you more
people have heard of Vermont and Dartmouth than any of the volleyball schools
listed. Also it's not fair to compare skiing to volleyball. Volleyball in
on campus, indoors, and has tv facilities built in. Skiing is off in the
mountains and many of the resorts do not have cameras and seating readily
available. Utah won the NC in basketball way back in 1944,
men's skiing won the title in 1981 and the combined title 81, 84, 86, 87,
88, 93, 96, 97, and 03.
@2BCSWINS "Yet that very bad football team [Utah] continues to beat the
cougies each year......LOL!"@Two For Flinching "Swimming already
swept BYU"@U90 "Utah has won 3 in a row and 8 of 11 against
BYU"The fact that you all use beating BYU as the metric for your
program's success shows just how much of a little brother U are to BYU.That, and the trailer park football facilities.'Nuff
Two For Flinching"BYU fans are proud of their men's
volleyball team, despite the fact that the sport is dominated by UC and Cal
State schools."Men's volleyball is dominated by California
schools like USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Pepperdine, but the sport also includes
schools like Penn State, Ohio State and BYU.Who compete's in
the co-ed sport of skiing - Denver, Colorado, Vermont and Utah and whole bunch
of tiny schools nobody has even heard of? How many Utah fans have attended a ski
meet, ever? When was the last time a Utah ski meet was televised?Like I said, NOBODY care about skiing, including Utah fans.Cite me
one men's sport the Utes have won a national championship in, ever?
@ Y's little brotherBYU fans are proud of their men's
volleyball team, despite the fact that the sport is dominated by UC and Cal
State schools. Why can't Ute fans be proud of our ski team even though non
football playing schools are contenders for the national title? It's not
different.Again, Utah is struggling right now, thanks in no small
part to the elite competition the school competes against in literally every
sport. But a lot of money is being invested into the athletics department, and
hopefully we start seeing some of that return here in the fairly near future.
"Utah still has top notch gymnastics and skiing programs..."Utah does have a very good women's gymnastics program, but the Utes
haven't won a national champinoship since 1995Absolutely NOBODY
cares about a sport that is so trivial that it's DOMINATED by tiny Denver
"W. basketball still is holding on to a winning record."0-4 in the PAC 12"Most of Utah's teams have done
very well in non-conference competition. Playing a plethora of top 10 teams in
conference in almost every sport is weighing down on Utah's win
totals."Utah wasn't even ranked in the most recent National
Association of College Athletic Director's Cup rankings because the Utes
didn't earn a single point.BYU finished #13Utah State
@ duckhunterCalm down man. I said women's basketball is still
holding on the a winning record; which they are. Gymnastics will be fine, as
will skiing. Swimming already swept BYU and the men won their first conference
meet. Softball went 21-5 in their pre-season last year. Your hyperbole about
Utah athletics is silly. Utah is improving facilities across the board and is
investing more money than ever before into the Olympic sports. The quality of
teams Utah fields will continue to improve as a result.
@Ducky..."That is reality, that is fact. That is bad. Very bad."Yet that very bad football team continues to beat the cougies each
@2ferutah's basketball most certainly DOES NOT have a winning
record RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW they are 8-8. RIGHT NOW utah's
gymnastics is 0-1, losing record RIGHT NOW.RIGHT NOW utah's
entire athletic program is bad, very bad, one of the worst overall athletic
programs in D-1. That is a FACT RIGHT NOW. That is how things are.@2irreleventandacientwinsSo utah football is not a loser RIGHT
NOW? I'm pretty sure 5-7 means losers. I also am pretty sure that
successively worse records each year show a digression. That is how it is RIGHT
NOW. Face it, utah's athletic program is a bad one, one of the
worst in all of D-1, very poor very bad. Last season EVERY single sport utah
sponsors had a losing record in their conference. ALL of them. That
is reality, that is fact. That is bad. Very bad.
@ducky...Do you read what you write before posting it? In the same
post you say "RIGHT NOW every single other sport utah spnsors is a losing
program, ALL OF THEM. That is RIGHT NOW, that is reality." and then you say
"This coincides with several losing years, no ncaa tournament berths, and
not having beaten BYU in several years, in fact they have lost to BYU 11 of the
last 12 times and something like 14 of 16. That is RIGHT NOW."So
I guess RIGHT NOW in basketball is the last 11 - 16 games. However in Football
that is just RIGHT NOW today. It's so funny how you spin these web's
to somehow try to make the cougies look better. Problem is Ducky you're not
fooling anybody. Spin it anyway you want ducky but everybody but you and a few
fellow blinded cougie fans on these threads know the truth. RIGHT NOW utah has
the better football program and right now the cougies have the better basketball
program. As you would say....That is RIGHT NOW, that is reality.
@ duckhunterIt is never wise to speak in absolutes. Utah still has
top notch gymnastics and skiing programs, so right there your assertion is
false. W. basketball still is holding on to a winning record. M. swimming has
looked good early this season as well. Most of Utah's teams have done very
well in non-conference competition. Playing a plethora of top 10 teams in
conference in almost every sport is weighing down on Utah's win totals. I
believe Utah will be better for it in the long run though.
@u 90I always enjoy how utah "fans" want to keep BYU in the
present when it comes to atheltics but alternately, and conveniently, choose to
ignore the present as it pertains to utah. Let me fill you in on the present,
you know the way things are NOW.Now utah is a losing football team
that did not even make it to a bowl game. This is simply the latest in several
consecutive years that have each been worse than the year before. RIGHT NOW utah
is getting worse and they are losers, that is the present, that is NOW.Right now utah's basketball team is mired in a 4 game losing streak that
coincided with them playing the 1st halfway decent teams they played all year
other than BYU. This coincides with several losing years, no ncaa tournament
berths, and not having beaten BYU in several years, in fact they have lost to
BYU 11 of the last 12 times and something like 14 of 16. That is RIGHT NOW.RIGHT NOW every single other sport utah spnsors is a losing program, ALL
OF THEM. That is RIGHT NOW, that is reality.
@ Striker "If some of those had not ended in FG being blocked, or hitting
a post, or something related to a FG, it could easily be 6/11 instead"If "IFs" and "BUTs" were candy and nuts.... You're
really going to play the IF game? Okay, I'll play. If Harlene on his
knees and 4 & 18 hadn't happend it would be 10 of 11. See anyone can
play the IF game but at the end of the day those who do are simply ignoring
reality. And the reality is your team has been owned by the Utes@
truecoug1 "until you can find some way to actually finish the season with
a winning record, I would avoid making references to being a "dominant
program over BYU"Sorry to break the bad news to you trucoug but
in the last 10 years Utah has had 9 wining seasons, 8 bowl wins and 2 BCS bowl
wins. BYU hasn't
@U90 and UteologyI understand that your program is struggling right
now, that U didn't go bowling this year, and that U are currently running
your facilities out of a trailer park, which means that the only thing that you
can beat your chest about is that wonderful 3 game winning streak over your
rival, but let's stop with the "domination" thing. BYU's program has been better overall than Utah's for the past six
years. Stomping your feet and saying that your program has been
"dominant" over BYU because of three rivalry wins in a row, two in
completely fluke fashion, is just little brotherish.Again, congrats
on the 3 game win streak. But until you can find some way to actually finish
the season with a winning record, I would avoid making references to being a
"dominant program over BYU".Go Cougars!
U 90Love the spin, but one game does not a season make; sooner or
later Utah fans will finally figure out that beating BYU only gives you bragging
rights for a single game.ranked is still better than unrankedhigher ranked is still better than lower rankedbetter record is still
better than inferior recordwinning record is still better than losing
recordwinning a bowl game is still better than watching from the couchAnybody who tries to argue differently is only fooling themselves.
@U90 and UteologyI completely agree with Striker. I came home from
my mission in time to see the 2009 BYU OT win over Utah. That win made it 3
wins in 4 years for BYU over the Utes, not to mention 2 conference championships
to the Utes' 1, and 3 top 15 finishes to the Utes' 1 in that same time
frame. BYU had "dominated" Utah in that period of time, but what did we
hear from Ute fans?"We won a Sugar Bowl, we clearly have the
better program", or "You just got lucky in those wins, if we had gotten
some bounces it would've been 4 wins to 0".Now the
shoe's on the other foot. Two of the past three games Utah has won because
of crazy bounces and fluke plays. That's what makes it a great rivalry,
because the games are so close. So by all means, tout the scoreboard,
you've got it right now. But stop with the "domination" stuff
because that's simply not the case. BYU has finished with a higher
ranking than Utah in 2 of the last 3 years. We've also gone bowling in all
three years. continued>>
I am personally excited that both programs have quality opponents. I think
trying to argue who has the tougher schedule is impossible. So many variables
come into play before next year even happens. I am just glad that both teams
have found a way to make their programs stronger and better.Go
"The team with 8 wins owns the team with 3 wins.... that's the
point."Comments like this crack me up. 8/11 wins is owning? If
some of those had not ended in FG being blocked, or hitting a post, or something
related to a FG, it could easily be 6/11 instead. It's an even matched
series with Utah having the edge lately. Look at the years before that when BYU
was blowing Utah out of this universe to the tune of 48-17, 70-31, 55-7, 56-28,
56-6, 27-0 from 1979-1992, with BYU winning almost all those games in that
period. 8/11 with 3 blowouts since 2004 isn't better than 13-1 with
multiple blowouts. Many of us on these boards were alive then and both sides
can admit those times were truly dominating days of BYU over Utah. Either team
winning by no more than 7 points in 3/9 games is hardly domination. It's
call a good rivalry in the last 10 years in one sport. Dominance is Utah's
wins over BYU in gymnastics, and BYU's wins over Utah in soccer, especially
Eight months before fall camp begins, it's pointless to argue which team
has the stronger SOS.Who could have predicted a year ago that USC
would be on the outsided looking in at the Final 2012 rankings, while Utah State
and San Jose State would both finish in the Top 25?Suffice it to say
that BYU and Utah both have what appear to be very good schedules for 2013.Now it's up to each program to make the most of the opportunities
those schedules present.
2ferU aren't USC!
@ phoenix"Money will never buy U a National Championship nor a
Heisman Trophy."It worked for USC....
Uteology"Then again I don't expect a BYU fan to understand
what playing in a real conference feels like."Don't kid
yourself; BYU was playing the big boys long before Utah was even a blip on the
national radar."Who needs a trophy when you get millions from
playing in the PAC-12, even in a bad year."Money will never buy
U a National Championship nor a Heisman Trophy - the singular most sought after
prizes in all of college sports.Call us the first time U beat a
conference opponent with a winning record. Continually beating your chest about
being a perennial conference bottom dweller is just plain pathetic.
@deductive reasoning"When is Utah going to start awarding
themselves trophies for having a tougher SOS than BYU?"As soon
as BYU starts awarding itself a trophy for losing to Utah annually.Then again I don't expect a BYU fan to understand what playing in a real
conference feels like. Maybe you should go post on TCU article.Who
needs a trophy when you get millions from playing in the PAC-12, even in a bad
year. "Playing in a real conference has simply proven that Utah
didn't belong in the PAC 12 in the first place."Under
Bronco BYU is 12-14 vs BCS teams so I guess by your logic BYU has simply proven
that BYU doesn't belong in ANY real conference.
@Naval Vet - Cougar fans would LOVE to "take out the head-to-head
games"Uh, if I remember right, it was Chris Hill and Whit who
took the hiatus, not BYU. There are not too many BYU football fans who want the
rivalry to end, nor are the too many Ute fans who want it to end. Although your
comments was an interesting diversion to the SOS question.Win or
lose, 3 of the last 4 games have come down to the final play. What's not
to like about that. Or maybe U would rather watch your Utes beat up on N.
Colorado by 40, which does nothing to prepare the Utes for tough games in the
@ Market It Down "BYU didn't play all cupcakes"Yes but
BYU played 4 cupcakes while Utah played 1. Do you think that had anything to do
with BYU having 7 wins vs. Utah's 5 in the regular season? Or do you not
pay attention to SOS?@ Market It Down "the Utes would have lost
to... BYU (remember, the game would have been played in Provo where the crowd
noise wouldn't have influenced the bad snap that lead to Utah's scoop
and score go ahead touchdown).Did you really just say that? I guess
the visiting teams should then have all their losses negated due to crowd noise.
@ deductive reasoning"NOBODY, except a desperately delusional Utah fan
who can't accept reality, would try to argue that a 2-10 Colorado team was
better than a 9-4 Utah team simply because Colorado won the head-to-head match
up."You're missing the point, losing to a team one time in
10 years is a fluke. Utah losing to UNLV in 07 was a fluke, BYU losing to UNLV
in 04 was a fluke. I think we can agree on that. However, losing to a team 8
times in 11 years is no fluke. The team with 8 wins owns the team with 3
wins.... that's the point
Anyone know if BYU is trying to line up a 13th game? Looks like Idaho and New
Mexico need help rounding out their schedule and BYU has 3 open dates. I like
that they have a bye before the Utah and Utah State games. Perhaps they can get
their act together like they do for bowl games so they can beat the in state
@motortrikeI really like the "I said it, but I didn't
really say it" argument. Very convincing.LOL!
U90"U 90"Do you really think Utah would have
been kept out of a bowl in 2012 if they had played 4 cupcakes like
BYU...?"Very likely, because BYU didn't play all
cupcakes.Playing BYU's schedule, the Utes would have lost to
Utah State, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, San Jose State, Oregon State, Boise State,
and... BYU (remember, the game would have been played in Provo where the crowd
noise wouldn't have influenced the bad snap that lead to Utah's scoop
and score go ahead touchdown).
UteologyWhen is Utah going to start awarding themselves trophies for
having a tougher SOS than BYU?Playing in a real conference has
simply proven that Utah didn't belong in the PAC 12 in the first place.-------U90The only hole I see is the gaping hole
in your weak spin that completely ignores the fact that seasons are judged one
season at a time.It wouldn't matter if Colorado had beaten U 10
straight seasons in a row, NOBODY, except a desperately delusional Utah fan who
can't accept reality, would try to argue that a 2-10 Colorado team was
better than a 9-4 Utah team simply because Colorado won the head-to-head match
up.No, Utah fans are simply going to have to accept reality that
consistently better records and higher rankings prove that BYU has had a better
overall football program than Utah during the Bronco/Kyle era.
What you are forgetting is that this fall the Cougars won't have Riley
Nelson to carry. That puts 3 more wins in the Cougar schedule.
What has the utes done to deserve their Pac pay check? Nothing but an
entitlement.Opps! They improved the winning record of the other
teams, allowing them to reach bowl games. More income for the conference. Good
To the Deseret News moderators I DEMAND to speak to an editor, if not i will be
going to the 1st preasdency of the church i,m tired of my posts being denied
when i even mention trolls on the d news thread, yesterday i seen no less than
7 people talking about the trolls on here and their comments got posted, to
me this is discrimination and if i have to i will talk to the editor in chief
of this paper,this paper is beginning to look more and more like the tribune
with their hateful comments being posted every day ,i have never once posted a
hateful comment on here except to defend myself when i felt that i was being
2011 TCU SOS #82 .... 11-22012 TCU SOS #16 .... 7-6Like TCU
and Utah, BYU is about to find out what a playing a real schedule feels like.Unlike BYU, playing in a real conference will help improve talent at
Utah and TCU.
U 90"Do you really think Utah would have been kept out of a bowl
in 2012 if they had played 4 cupcakes like BYU (Weber, Idaho, Mew Mexico State,
Hawaii) instead of 1 cupcake (N. Arizona)?"Quit making so much
UtanymousI'll give you this, that was a great attempt to make
sense of your original comment ... but you still failed to make any sense as to
what Utah vs Arizona has to do with Utah vs BYU. Arizona could beat the Utes by
50 and it would have absolutely nothing to do with what would happen in another
Those that can't root for more than one team are missing out on half the
fun. I'm looking forward to both seasons.
"In the end, it really doesn’t matter whose schedule is tougher...What
really matters are the win-loss records each team can salvage out of next
year's brutal slates."What? You didn't mean that.I would take 50/50 loses with tough schedules than unbeaten cupcake
@Truth Machine. "Of course, if you try using that same argument
regarding teams that the Utes have lost to over the years - Colorado, UNLV, CSU,
New Mexico, and Wyoming - the kids on the hill will laugh in your face.
UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)? preposterous! "The hole in
your argument is that Utah hasn't been owned by Colorado, UNLV, CSU, New
Mexico, and Wyoming over the past 10 years. On the other hand, Utah has owned
BYU. See the difference? How can any Y fan say BYU currently has a
better program than Utah's when you have lost 3 in a row. Don't give
me your ridiculous W/L records over the past 3 years because your schedule has
been full of WAC and Big Sky opponents. Do you really think Utah would have
been kept out of a bowl in 2012 if they had played 4 cupcakes like BYU (Weber,
Idaho, Mew Mexico State, Hawaii) instead of 1 cupcake (N. Arizona)?
Just the FAXOlympus Cove, UtahUtah finished at the bottom of
the PAC 12 and BYU still couldn't beat them. That's three in a row
and 8 of 11. Those are the FAX.LOL
chrissy"I love being in a BCS conference!"Sorry
to burst your bubble, but you're not in any conference; you've simply
chosen to be a fan of a team that happens to be a bottom dwelling member of the
Does this mean that utah will have a legitimate excuse to finish in the bottom
end of the conference (again)??
You wrote: "BYU won the only game between the two that will be played this
season so clearly BYU is the better team ... they won. However it was fairly
obvious that the gap between them is quite small."I wrote:
"We'll see if your theory holds when Arizona visits the Huntsman later
this season. I'm predicting a double-digit win for the Wildcats in the
rematch."You wrote: Question: What in the world does Arizona
playing Utah have to do with the gap between BYU and Utah?My
response: The gap for a single game doesn't necessarily indicate the real
gap between the two teams. That's why I predicted that despite the close
3-point gap in Tempe, Arizona would beat the Utes by double-digits in SLC. The
same theory holds for a rematch of BYU at Utah. BYU would win by about 5.
Sagarin's "Predictor" supports my predictions, hence, the
A compliment is in store for Mr Sorenson. He came right out and admitted this
was a fluff story."In the end, it really doesn't matter
whose schedule is tougher. It just gives fans something else to argue about
during the long months between football seasons. (And it gives columnists like
this one something to write about in the dog days of January)."But it did generate a grundle of comments including the usual slams and
childish slurs from haters and justification comments from defenders.I will bite to the degree that it will be very difficult for either team to
win six games. For all the BCS chest beaters, if Utah or BYU do not win, their
is no path for either to any big money games. Ironically and
absolutely not even close to realistic, if both teams won all their games,
except for the one that one must lose in their rival game, both would be in a
BCS game next year.If they do not win six, both will be bottom
feeders. I will worry about rankings when the new teams take the field. The
current rankings are old history.
UteanymousGreat summary at 2:31 p.m., but why are you trying to
confuse the issue by citing actual results?Utah fans live under the
mistaken delusion that if they repeat their head-to-head mantra long enough,
people will actually start to believe that one-game results are actually more
important than season-long results.Of course, if you try using that
same argument regarding teams that the Utes have lost to over the years -
Colorado, UNLV, CSU, New Mexico, and Wyoming - the kids on the hill will laugh
in your face.UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)? preposterous!
Uteanymous"The bottom half of the WCC is indeed weak, but the
Utes wouldn't finish higher than 5th, behind Gonzaga, BYU, Saint
Mary's, and Santa Clara, and the Utes would struggle to beat LMU and San
Francisco on the road."This is a reasonable comment. I think
Utah would do a little better than you think, but I could also see it going the
way you see it. I'm probably a little too vocal lately on how bad the WCC
is (I'll work on it), but thank you for such a logical post, it's
refreshing. (I'm talking in general, that's not meant to be a lame jab
at other comments from you)
UteanymousI asked you: "What in the world does Arizona playing
Utah have to do with the gap between BYU and Utah?"Your terribly
weak response was: "Only a crimson-goggles wearing Utah fan would be so
blind as to not see the obvious correlation."Tell you what,
I'll admit to being blind if you'll actually answer the question with
any bit of logic versus running from it like you so predictably did.
motorbikeThe bottom half of the WCC is indeed weak, but the Utes
wouldn't finish higher than 5th, behind Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Mary's,
and Santa Clara, and the Utes would struggle to beat LMU and San Francisco on
CougFaninTX"Unfortunately, the U drags down BYUs SOS. And BYU
improves Utahs SOS. Take out the head to head game and it's very close
based on last years SOS. If BYUs final game is against at team with a ranked 30
or lower, BYU has the more difficult schedule."Your missing a
MAJOR part of SOS which is factoring in who you play at home versus who you play
on the road. Sorry, but BYU would still come up short by quite a bit. Just the
motorbike"Question: What in the world does Arizona playing Utah
have to do with the gap between BYU and Utah?"Only a
crimson-goggles wearing Utah fan would be so blind as to not see the obvious
Naval VetRegarding your comment at 12:56 p.m. Jan. 14, 2013. That was absolutely the most accurate and common sense post I've ever
seen on one of these threads. That said, not one BYU fan will digest it but will
instead choose to ignore it and pretend none of it is true.
Naval VetMore delusion SOS spin from our little friend on the
hill.2012 BYU(8-5) bowl winner > Utah(5-7) no bowl2011
BYU(10-3) #25 > Utah(8-5) unranked2010 Utah(10-3) #23 > BYU(7-6)
unranked2009 BYU(11-2) #12/#12 > Utah(10-3) #18/#182008
*Utah(13-0) #2/#4 > BYU(10-3) #25/#212007 *BYU(11-2) #14/#14 >
Utah(9-4) unranked2006 *BYU(11-2) #16/#15 > Utah(8-5) unranked2005 Utah(7-5) unranked > BYU(6-6) unranked#conference
championFIVE of the EIGHT seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era, BYU
has finished with a BETTER RECORD and HIGHER RANKING in the national polls and
in Sagarin than Utah.BYU doesn't need to "hide" behind
their schedule; BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012, versus only TWO for the
Utes. Utah played more middle-level teams than BYU, but, as Utah fans have
argued incessantly over the past several years, the true strength of a schedule
is based on how many Top 25 teams you played.If Utah fans
desperately need a Brownie prize for playing a slightly better overall SOS,
DuckhunterBTW, I have no problem standing behind my other comment
about Utah fighting it out with St. Mary's and BYU for the 2-4 seeds in the
terrible WCC. That said, Utah would probably end #4.Honestly, the
WCC is atrocious.
DuckhunterI applaud you for digging up those quotes from me. Funny
though, you ended up helping my argument more than yours!Your
original comment was this: "That has not stopped utah "fans" like
yourself from claiming that utah is as good as BYU in basketball this
year."My comment was this: "I challenge you to go find those
statements from Utah fans you're talking about..."Your
response was a recent quote from me: "this years Utah squad is every bit
BYU's equal"Bottom line? You're right, I own that
comment even though the context was such that I was saying the teams are very
close.HOWEVER, your other quotes from me actually helped my argument
NOT yours! I make it very clear that I found Utah "nearly" as good, and
"closely talented." LOL, you should've stopped at the
first quote. As you've so kindly helped me prove, I've made it very
clear that I see BYU as being slightly better than Utah. So yes, go ahead and
post "several more statements from [ME] claiming utah is as good as
BYU." Good luck with that!LOL!
I highly doubt BYU will get a good opponent for their 12th game, but as has been
shown in this article they have a plenty good enough schedule anyway.
BYU makes everyone's strength of schedule better.
Gotta love Dr. Hill's arranging this schedule (now having to do a complete
180 degree change). . .D news and Tribune both reported Hill indicated the last
homer with Weber State was "a courtesy to former Utah coaching legend Ronnie
Mac" and that there would be no more of these patsy games with FBS teams.
Now it is supposedly in the interest of a "balanced schedule" because
the PAC 12 schedule together with the other non-conf game are "TOO
HARD".No kidding those Colorados, Wash State, and all the rest
are too hard. Love it, but we get Michigan in our house.
Nothing was said until the DNews brought it up. Utah does have 7
home games this year. Utah also plays 4 games, has a bye, plays 4 more and has
another bye. With a tough schedule, there is some relief. Tough schedule is
always going to be an issue in the Pac 12 as the risk-reward is much higher. The
road to the BCS game was a lot easier in the MWC but I still enjoy having good
teams come to the stadium nearly every week. I am still renewing my tickets
next year and trying to get two more. I bought two hoops tix last week and was
told there are over 600 fans waiting for additional tickets to come available.
The fans are still showing up. With a bad record we still averaged
over 45,346 for the year. The stadium holds 45,017. Back in the MWC, we would
have dropped by over 10,000 fans if we weren't playing well.
UteanymousI wrote: "BYU won the only game between the two that
will be played this season so clearly BYU is the better team ... they won.
However it was fairly obvious that the gap between them is quite small."You wrote: "We'll see if your theory holds when Arizona visits
the Huntsman later this season. I'm predicting a double-digit win for the
Wildcats in the rematch."Question: What in the world does
Arizona playing Utah have to do with the gap between BYU and Utah?
CougFaninTX:"Take out the head to head game and it's very
close based on last years SOS."Cougar fans would LOVE to
"take out the head-to-head games" when considering their big brother.
Afterall, head-to-head, you all hadn't fared very well against us. And
speaking of "taking away", take out all those weak-WAC bottomfeeders
from your schedule, and you'll find out soon enough what a strong SOS does
to your overall W/L record. Your fans like to hide behind your W/L record while
playing WAC football, and point to Sagarin -- whose primary metric for ranking
is W/L records -- as though it validates your program, but Ute fans see through
the veneer. Just compare your SOS in 2011 vs. 2012: SOS went UP; wins went
DOWN.And as wins go DOWN, so does your Sagarin ranking. And
don't give us any of that "rebuilding year" nonsense. Your SOS
will skyrocker over your last 2 years, and THAT will be the reason your overall
W/L record (and Sagarin final ranking) will continue to drop.3 in a
row, and 8 of the last 11 proved Utah was the better team.
Not to worry Cougfanin TX, by hte time next year plays out, Utah will help BYUs
SOS more than the other way around.The fact of the matter is that
both teams play good schedules, now it's time to go out and beat
team's on these schedules. 5, 6, 7 loss season's aren't worth a
rip. GO UTES
@Naval Vet - Unfortunately, the U drags down BYUs SOS. And BYU improves Utahs
SOS. Take out the head to head game and it's very close based on last
years SOS. If BYUs final game is against at team with a ranked 30 or lower, BYU
has the more difficult schedule.
Byu will be #1 champs, we already now that.
I am proud that USU adds to the sos of both schools.
worf"Utah moved to the Pac, and now whine about playing a
tougher scedule."No Ute fan is whining about tougher schedules,
in fact we're absolutely thrilled with playing tougher schedules.
We're simply providing some of Duckhunter's "balance" for you
Coogies when you get all out of whack thinking 10-win football seasons and
25-win basketball seasons are remotely the same accomplishment to that of teams
who play a real schedule. But don't worry, we're starting to
understand more and more everyday that you guys will never quite get that.
From last year's preseason through the end of bowl season, every SOS rating
service ranked the Utes' schedule as significantly tougher than the
cougs'. Yet that didn't stop our Indy-WACery little brother from
proclaiming otherwise. I wouldn't expect Y fans would behave any
differently in 2013.
@motorbikeHere's another one, from YOU in that same article
this one at 8:38 p.m. Jan 2nd."Hahahaha! We've got some
serious blue-goggled dreamers out today. I love how each and every one of you
has to try and spin the 3 point victory over Utah as something other than what
it really is ... a game showing how very closely talented these 2012-13 rosters
actually are."Then there is this gem, once again from YOU."Deal with it, Utah is nearly as good as your cougars this year and
would compete similarly in the terrible WCC. I'm sorry this is hurting your
precious egos so very, very much."There's more of them to
motortrike. I can post several more statements from YOU personally claiming utah
is as good as BYU and would compete for the 2-4 spots in the WCC this year. Do you want me to do it?LOL!
CougarFaninTx says "Reasonableness could put Oregon, Stanford, Notre Dame,
and Texas as Top 10 teams."Perhaps you didn't watch the
national championship game where Notre Dame was exposed as a Top 10 Fraud. One
loss next year, and they'll see no mercy. Both Notre Dame and Utah beat
BYU by 3 points, so that reveals where Notre Dame is really at.Your
view of Texas as a Top 10 team is the wishful dream of a Texas resident. Some
of your fellow residents say the Mack Brown magic is done, and its time for him
to go. They've been sliding for 4 years. What miracle is showing up at
camp to save them this year?All in all, though, I agree that BYU has
the tougher schedule, because they have an inexperienced quarterback and new OC.
@motorbike"Before anyone can believe your claim of hypocrisy, I
challenge you to go find those statements from Utah fans you're talking
about where we say Utah is as good as BYU in basketball this year. We'll be
waiting."Uh motortrike apparently you don't even remeber
what you posted in the last few days.From the Dnews article "PAC
12 Basketball Preview" dated december 31st. here is YOUR comment in that
article dated Jan. 2nd 10:46 a.m."Back to BYU and Utah
basketball ... yes, this years Utah squad is every bit BYU's equal."That's you motortrike, you posted those exact words less than 2
weeks ago. So are you not a utah "fan"?LOL!
motorbike"BYU won the only game between the two that will be
played this season so clearly BYU is the better team ... they won. However it
was fairly obvious that the gap between them is quite small."We'll see if your theory holds when Arizona visits the Huntsman later
this season.I'm predicting a double-digit win for the Wildcats
in the rematch.
2B"Utah football has so far surpassed the team down south
it's not even a comparison anymore."Then, please explain
the following:Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference
ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1BowlsBronco 8Kyle
7Losses to conference bottom dwellers - CSU, Wyo, UNLV, NM, ColBronco 0Kyle 6Losses to 10-loss teamsBronco 0Kyle 2Losing seasonsBronco 0Kyle 1Bottom
line:Kyle has been better head-to-head, but Bronco has been better
overall. Except for his perfect storm season in 2008, Kyle hasn't done
anything.Utah is an historically mediocre program, that had a couple
of recent break-through seasons, but has been in steady decline back to
mediocrity ever since their high-water mark in 2008.Your recent
3-game head-to-head winning streak against BYU is the ONLY thing you've had
going for U since 2008. When that ends in 2013, you'll be left with nothing
but fighting WSU and Colorado to stay out of the PAC 12 basement.
Y Grad/ Y DadLet's not have the pot calling the kettle black.
The simple fact that BYU and Utah are rivals means there will always be
comparisons between the two. And let's not fool ourselves in who does the
comparing between the two. As long as these two institutions exist people will
compare them, from the most die hard fans to people who are truly neutral and
many in between.
@ AZ Blue & Red,Amen, brother! My sentiments exactly! Thanks
for a grown up post!
Duckhunter"@reasonableute - utah has lost to BYU in basketball
11 of the last 12 times. That has not stopped utah "fans" like yourself
from claiming that utah is as good as BYU in basketball this year, and of course
utah lost to BYU in basketball again this year. In otherwords hypocrisy drips
from your post."_____________Before anyone can believe
your claim of hypocrisy, I challenge you to go find those statements from Utah
fans you're talking about where we say Utah is as good as BYU in basketball
this year. We'll be waiting.Now that said, It would've
been interesting to see Utah and BYU play a rematch at the Huntsman Center this
year. BYU won the only game between the two that will be played this season so
clearly BYU is the better team ... they won. However it was fairly obvious that
the gap between them is quite small.
Say its not so, schedule Idaho and or New Mexico State in 2013? I thought BYU
was on to bigger and better things. LOL!Oh well, they are your new band of
brothers while riding the coat tails of Notre Dame.Byufanforlife
said:"@Chris B your precious BCS will be gone in 2014 so the
" significant" bowls will be gone"The significant bowls
will still be there. I would not call BYUs upcoming bowl agreements significant
shorts"Well BYU last three games are Nov 11, Wisconsin, Nov 16
Notre Dame, Dec 12 Hawaii. you were saying?"Did you actually
read the article? I was talking about the 1 or 2 games that are not currently
scheduled. So as you put it ... you were saying?
RE:reasonableUTEProvo, UTI really don't know you enough to call
you names. If you are calling yourself that, you would know.
@reasonableuteutah has lost to BYU in basketball 11 of the last 12
times. That has not stopped utah "fans" like yourself from claiming that
utah is as good as BYU in basketball this year, and of course utah lost to BYU
in basketball again this year. In otherwords hypocrisy drips from your post.
Utah moved to the Pac, and now whine about playing a tougher scedule.Go figure.
Just a side note BYU is 13th in Americain Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup,
just behind Texas, Washington, and Michigan State, and just ahead of Georgetown,
Syracuse, and Texas A&M. BYU always does well in this broad ranking of
athletic programs, but that's a little higher than normal, thanks to the
girls' soccer and volleyball teams having better-than-average years. Gee, I wonder if BYU's absence from a major conference has anything
to do with not playing on Sunday, or religious affiliation, or opposition to gay
marriage. Naw!Other local schools: Utah State is 68th, and Southern
Utah is 148th. The University of Utah is unranked.
Does it really matter? Chrissy bcs knows it does. Can we all ignore this
nonsense person. Chis mommy knows it.I just hope we don't play
those Idaho and NM State in November.
motorbikeCottonwood Heights, UT"I think we all know what
the last game or two on BYU's schedule will look like."Well
BYU last three games are Nov 11, Wisconsin, Nov 16 Notre Dame, Dec 12 Hawaii.
you were saying?
@2irreleventandancientwinsAncient history. Last I checked utah went
5-7 and spent the holidays at home. That is current, that is now, that is
I love love love how BYU fans still gloat after consistently losing to the Utes.
I don't know about everyone else, but typically, the trash talking on my
end stops when I lose. I was taught that trash talking even after you lose is a
seriously low class move... but what do I know right? I'm just a
uneducated, anti-mormon Ute fan right Cougars?
Sorry, Mr. Sorensen, I'm not going to take the bait. Who cares which
schedule is more difficult? Bowl games, which any football season is all about,
is about nothing more than Wins and Losses. Further, as a Cougs fan, our bowl
game in 2013 is already known & agreed upon. We will certainly reach the
bowl game 6-win minimum and will play in the Fight Hunger Bowl in San Francisco.
I'm sure the rest of the Cougs fans have BCS aspirations for "something
better." Not in 2013.
@phoenix and sounds right3 straight, 8 of 11, overall well thats not
even close, 2 undefeated seasons in the last 8 years, a sugar bowl and fiesta
bowl trophy in the last 8 years. Utah football has so far surpassed the team
down south it's not even a comparison anymore. Why don't both of you
hit the San jose st threads and compare yourself to a team thats about equal to
the cougies.Phoenix...We don't have to beat our chest out SOS
or rankings we just prove who's better on the field where it matters.
Am I the only one that hopes both teams do well? This is not a
contest. These are 2 teams that have a different path with the same goal. Grow
up guys we are not in kindergarten. Not sure if my brother can beat up your
brother. WHO CARES? May both teams do well. And throw in Utah
State too as they have turned a corner.
Chris B... Who cares if you are in a BCS conf if you never win anything in it.
Utah pretty much never won conference championships in anything while in the MTN
west. Everybody knows BYU should have got into the PAC if it was not for
religion issues and they would bring in twice the amount of money as Utah and a
much better overall sports program. You guys are like the iowa st of the big 12
after your first 2 years or the wyoming and new mexico(football) of the mtn
west, good job riding the coat tails of much better schools though.
When looking at next year's schedule, looking at the rankings and SOS of
the opponents from last year is a starting place, but not the ending place.
There are so many unknowns.Reasonableness could put Oregon,
Stanford, Notre Dame, and Texas as Top 10 teams. Will Utah State and Wisconsin
be better or worse with new coaches? Nobody knows. Let's resume this
argument in October when we know more about all the teams. For once
can we just agree that both teams have the most difficult schedules they've
had in the modern era, and they are fairly comparable.Can we also
agree that being in a conference that is an AQ for the Rose Bowl is meaningless
unless you're the #1 team in the conference, and for the next four years
the liklihood of the Utes being #1 is about the same as the liklihood I'll
win the lottery. Maybe the first poster on this thread should focus more
attention on getting her team eligible for the New Mexico bowl instead of the
What good does it do to play a tough schedule when you cant't a team on the
field to compete? Now let's look at the Ute Ball schedule. They scheduled
patsies and can't get past .500. I see a downward spiral in both major
sports. I think I will stay with the winning big brothers down south.
@ phoenixThis is an article about SOS. Last years SOS came up, so
it was discussed. You brought up where each team finished. In this context,
your post is a completely irrelevant tangent.
two ferUtah fans continue to beat their chests about SOS, even when
Utah finishes lower in the final rankings, so, quite obviously, understanding is
@ PhoenixWe all understand that. What you don't seem to
understand is that nobody was talking about achievement. We were talking about
who played a tougher schedule (Utah). Try to keep up.
2013 - I'm anxious to see how both teams play. The Y's schedule is
comparable to the U's. Now lets see how both teams fare. The major
difference is that beyond 2013 the U's season are compareable to next
years... actually probably significantly more difficult with the addition of
Michigan for 2014 and 2015; whereas, the Y's schedule is far from complete
so there is no knowing what the future holds for them.Good luck to
both schools next year.
SOS is a measuring stick.Ranking is a measurement of
accomplishment.Sagarin ranked Utah's SOS about 20 places higher
than BYU's SOS, butSagarin ranked BYU about 40 places higher
than Utah.Someday our little friends on the hill will finally figure
out which of the two is more important. The rest of the country
already understands that very simple concept.Here's a clue:Championship Trophies are awarded for finishing #1 in the rankings, NOT
for having the #1 SOS.
Who cares if you play good teams if you never beat any of them. U were brought
in to be the conference doormat an it's working. Both teams should shut up
and just win!
@ SpokalooBYU also played 5 teams ranked right around 200. Sagarin,
and his unbiased computers have Utah's SOS ranked 20 spots higher than BYU.
Overall, Utah played higher quality opponents.
The fact that a U sports beat writer makes the comparison... I mean, U all
EXPECT BYU fans and sports writers to compare us to U, yet here U are, the team
that left us in the dust, and you just can't quit comparing, can U?
All conjecture at this point. BYU schedule included teams that finished 4, 16,
18, 20, and 21 in the final AP poll. Utah's schedule finished playing
teams that finished 16, and 20 in the polls. BYU had a tougher schedule this
year with 5 ranked teams to Utah's 2. At the start of the season I would
have bet the farm Utah had a tougher schedule. Turned out to be false.
spokaloo"BYU's would be tougher, but Utah's 61 ranking
drags BYU down. Whereas, when they play BYU, it helps Utah's SOS."First of all that alone would still not make BYU's schedule
tougher. But secondly, we all know BYU will just lose to Utah again anyway. So
in the end it just won't matter much for you guys.
@Chris B your precious BCS will be gone in 2014 so the " significant"
bowls will be gone
Bottom line, I wouldn't care if the numbers are even comparable. Having a
conference makes your schedule tougher. In a conference anyone can be a threat.
Ya Chris B, don't you just love it? Now Utah can lose at home AND on the
road to the same team each year in most sports and alternate years in football.
How much will the basketball team lose by when they play @ USC (the 141st ranked
team in the country according to Sagarin, who just beat them on their home floor
by 17)? Moral victories are great!
re: chrissybAll a tougher schedule will do for the utes is keep you
out of a bowl for the second consecutive year and hasten kyle's departure.
I'm glad Mike Sorenson was the one to say it since coug fans have argued
differently for months now. It's pretty obvious that the U has the tougher
schedule of the two and I think we all know what the last game or two on
BYU's schedule will look like. That said, props to the cougs for
stepping it up, there are some good games to be played in both Provo and SLC
this year (and on the road of course). This is how it should be.
BYU's would be tougher, but Utah's 61 ranking drags BYU down.
Whereas, when they play BYU, it helps Utah's SOS.
I love being in a BCS conference! Home and homes with top teams in the nation,
year after year, after year.Unlike the 2 for 1's other schools
have to schedule. Such is the life of "AQ's" and
"non-AQ's"And p.s. No the BCS is essentially not goign
anywhere. The significant(aka BCS) bowls will always schedule agreements with
significant conferences. WAC teams such as Utah state and BYU need not
apply.Think the Rose Bowl will be reaching out to the WAC teams soon
hoping the WAC champion will play in Pasadena?Nope.Long
live the BCS!