I couldn't be less interested in who signs where when the players are right
out of HS. Once you sign, show up on campus, make the team, play on Saturday,
and then excel on Saturday, then and only then should I become interested. I
cringe whenever I think of untried and untested young men holding pressers about
their signing before taking a single snap.
No specialists! We lose the punter, kicker and long snapper and not a mention
of it in this article. As a fan of local (S. Utah) athletes, I know they missed
out on one of the top long snappers in the country, Kolton Donovan from Pine
View. I heard he recently left on his mission after a very succesful year at
SUU, which included an ALl American kicker and Punter? Hopefully Bronco can
afford another year of missed PATs and field goals...or not kicking at all?
Ratings are little misleading - especially for BYU recruits - because the folks
at the rating agencies obviously don't see all of these kids play. The
rating system is often based on who is recruiting the player and how many
scholarship offers he has. So, a kid may be a two-star recruit until he gets an
offer from USC and Oregon and then they suddenly become a 4-star recruit.
Typically that isn't a bad system because a player with offers from a lot
of good schools is usually a pretty good player. But, if a student commits to
BYU early or indicates early that BYU is his preference, then he may not be
recruited or receive as many scholarship offers from other schools. The system
(like Big 10 football rankings) is a bit circular. If Alabama is recruiting you,
then you must be a 4- or 5-star prospect. Not surprising, all of Alabama's
recruits are 4- or 5-star prospects.
@54-10 - good comment. For the first time I gave you a like. Keep up the good
work.For you star counters, where did USC finish with their
star-studded recruiting classes? Wonder what Oregon's star count is. How
about Boise State? I never hear of their star-studded recruiting classes.It's really about the program and the coaching.
Spokane Ute"How many BCS bowls has BYU won?"How
many National Championships and Heisman Trophies has Utah won?The
Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and the Heisman Trophy, the most
coveted trophies in college sports, sit in BYU's trophy case.Fiesta and Sugar bowl trophies sit in Utah's trophy case, nice, but not
even close to comparable to the aforementioned trophies.Bottom-line:
#1/#1 > #2/#4 or #4/#5As far as the current teams are concerned,
Utah 2008 is no more relevant than BYU 1984, since none of the players from
either of those teams is currently on the rosters of BYU and Utah.
Today BYU's 2013 recruiting class is ranked 64out of 124 teams. So today
they are not even in the top half of recruiting classes. Many are talking like
it is undesirable to have 4 and 5 star recruits, just remember they can play
with heart and desire also. They can also improve and become even better. Why
is BYU's recruiting going down hill?Just saying....
How many BCS bowls has BYU won? I can't recall that number. CougfaninTexas
is funny; he states that Utah fan's cherry pick stats to there advantage
while that's exactly what he's doing in his post. How does the saying
go about the Black Kettle?
goredHow many Top 25 finishes have Bronco and Kyle had?How
many Top 15 finishes have Bronco and Kyle had?How many conference
championships have Bronco and Kyle had?How many 10+ win seasons have
Bronco and Kyle had?How many bowl games have Bronco and Kyle coached their
teams to?How many losing seasons have Bronco and Kyle had?How many
losses to 10-loss teams have Bronco and Kyle had?What are the overall
records for Bronco and Kyle?You see, as much as Utah fans like to
cherry pick individual highlights, the overall records are far more important.
" Obviously, being an independent will eventually hurt BYU as far as
recruiting because most good players want to play on a team in a BCS league.
Mendenhall must know that he won't be able to compete with BCS schools in
recruiting top players, so he has taken the attitude that it doesn't
matter. However, that will only play out for so long. If we don't attach
ourselves to a BCS league soon, our recruiting will be very mediocre in the
future."Coleman, joining a BCS conference will have absolutely
no bearing on BYU's recruiting pool if the Honor Code is not changed as
@scenic viewYou still haven't answered the question: How did
the Y do against the U this year? Or last year? Or the year before that? Or
the last 10 years? Or in their overall history?It's amazing
how your fan base side-steps that. All of your post is irrelevant to my simple
coleman51BYU has won a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy, 15
national individual awards, and had 6 players inducted into the National College
Football Hall of Fame, ALL as a member of a non-BcS conference.With
just an average BYU offense in 2012, BYU would have beaten the #3 Fighting Irish
on their home turf and played in a BCS bowl game.There's no
need to panic and throw in the towel on Independence. If an offer from the Big
12 comes, of course BYU would accept, but otherwise, BYU can still be very
successful as an Independent, especially with the playoffs soon to change the
landscape of major college football.
goredYou failed to point out that five of BYU's opponents
finished in the Top 25, that BYU barely lost to three of them, all on the road,
and that BYU did beat one Top 25 team, Utah State, a team that beat Utah.I'll answer Swoop's question: "Who did U beat?"Obviously, the U only beat one decent team, which begs the question:"Why are Utah fans so intent on minimizing the only decent team Utah
beat last season?BYU's schedule and record was good enough to
earn BYU a #26 ranking in Sagarin's final rankings.Utah's
schedule and record were only good enough to earn Utah a #61 ranking and a berth
in the couch potato bowl.btw, in their entire history, BYU has
finished in the AP Top 25 SEVENTEEN times. Utah only 5.
Re: colemanWhat the Y has to do is beat those teams from "BCS"
conferences. Then the recruits will come and it won't matter if
they're in a conference or not. They just haven't been able to
compete against the others.
@swoopYou fail to point out that 5 of your 8 wins came against teams
that were in ESPN's bottom 10 in all of college football (yes, the bottom
120-129 in all D-1 football). And, I'll answer your question about the U
with a more relevant question: How did the Y do against the U last year? Or
the year before? Or the year before? Or over the past 10 years? Or over their
“ he doesn’t care a whit about star rankings, national and local
evaluations from the media, or even the amount or quality of offers assigned to
high school and junior college prospects”.Yes, we understand
that. He has proven to be a man of his word. (Ben Olson/Jake Heaps)too
So. Cal Reader"how can we get excited about the Cougs'
commitments when very few will have any immediate impact. I don't think
I'm alone when I say few of us will recall many of these kids 2/3 years
down the road after their missions."It's called long-term
satisfaction versus instant gratification.BYU's basketball team
missed Tyler Haws while he was gone, but now he's back and we get to enjoy
his court skills for the next three years.The same is true for the
majority of BYU athletes and will be even more so with missionaries now leaving
right after high school and not even appearing on a BYU roster for two or three
years.In some ways it's like re-discovering a Christmas present
stuffed in that back of a closet - we get to enjoy a practically new gift all
over again.Austin Collie was such a gift. Tanner Mangum may be such
a gift in a couple of years.
I think everyone is missing the point about the star system in college football
and the lack of heavily recruited players wanting to play for BYU. While it is
true that BYU has had players that weren't heavily recruited that became
stars, it is more the exception than the rule. What this tells me is that BYU is
not the place top players want to go. Obviously, being an independent will
eventually hurt BYU as far as recruiting because most good players want to play
on a team in a BCS league. Mendenhall must know that he won't be able to
compete with BCS schools in recruiting top players, so he has taken the attitude
that it doesn't matter. However, that will only play out for so long. If we
don't attach ourselves to a BCS league soon, our recruiting will be very
mediocre in the future. As much as we want our teams to win, good players will
stay away from BYU until we become part of a BCS league.
Re: byufan1993. I gotcha. I understand I'm at liberty whether or not to
read an article. That's not my point. My point is how can we get excited
about the Cougs' commitments when very few will have any immediate impact.
I don't think I'm alone when I say few of us will recall many of these
kids 2/3 years down the road after their missions.
Four and five star recruits are not the issue...the issue is whether or not
Robert Anae has garnered enough insight from his tenure under Stoops and
Rodreguez while down in Arizona to justify rehiring him... or more importantly
to offset his play calling predictability. And why people... does BYU
waste the talents of someone like Robbie Boscoe on the women's golf team!!!
"Utes FanSalt Lake City, UT"Or they could
improve their coaching. Boise generally doesn't recruit as well as either
school but, I'd say nearly every team they've had for the past 10
years has been better than what BYU or Utah put forth.
BYU's recruiting class is usually ranked somewhere between 40 - 60, and yet
the football team is typically ranked in the Top 25 as long as Crowton is not
the coach and Nelson is not the QB.With all the missionaries,
it's really almost impossible to rank the recruiting class. A better
reflection would be the incoming players, whether they are coming from HS or
missions and exclude HS players who are headed directly on a mission.The star system has many limitations, including a bias against kids from
smaller schools (like Hoffman). And a bias for overall good teams (take Kasen
Williams off Jake Heaps high school team and Heaps would not have been 5
star).BYU's current TE crop were as highly rated as any in
school history, yet they have not come close to performing like some other TEs.
Quezada was higher ranked than Jamaal Williams, but I'd take Williams. And
the list goes on.
So. Cal Reader"Blah, blah, blah. It's so difficult to get
too excited at all about Cougs recruits. Few of us will remember few of these
kids until many of them return from their mission."Last I
checked nobody was forcing you to read the article. So if it doesn't
interest you, you don't have to click on it!
Blah, blah, blah. It's so difficult to get too excited at all about Cougs
recruits. Few of us will remember few of these kids until many of them return
from their mission.
U grad (wishing he were a Y grad) pumping gas"Seven wins is
pretty good even if is against teams with losing records...someone has to
beat'm."Tell that to the Utes, who haven't beaten a
PAC 10.2 team with a winning record since joining the conference.btw, BYU had 8 wins last season, including versus a Top 25 team, and a team
that beat the Trojans in the Sun Bowl.Who did U beat in your bowl
The signing class of 2013 is the graduation class of 2023 at BYU. That's
way too far down the road to be making assessments of these fine, young men.
I can see that its true that Bronco doesn't care for the Star rankings, he
destroys those that are ranked.So much for "Band of
Brothers"Next seasons T-shirt slogan for the walk on's;
"A Star is Born"
I feel sorry fo Alabama. They still think they can win with highly rated
recruits. What do they know? I agree with Bronco's strategy. If you
can't sign them, and won't play them, and they won't field punts
in practice,why recruit them. Seven wins is pretty good even if is against
teams with losing records...someone has to beat'm.
I think we can all see the impact that improved recruiting (3, 4, and 5 star
recruits) in the fact that in the last 11 years, Utah is 8-11 against BYU with 3
consecutive wins. I do agree that the star rankings aren't everything.
ESPN, Rivals, and Scout can't even agree on star rankings. However, you can
measure speed, pass %, # of catches per targets, # tackles per game, etc. I
didn't want to see or admit in the recruiting system with Utah beating big
name schools in the BCS, but the last 2 years have shown that recruiting does
matter and a team needs depth. BYU qualified for a bowl game because they play
crappy teams for half the season.
Did the Y recruit any kickers? I hate those dreaded words by the announcer:
"And now walks out the walk-on freshman kicker..." And then clank or
shank...Great programs seem to invest a scholarship on a punter, snapper, holder
and kicker and not just hope it all works out...
BYU has often found ways to make "average" recruits into superior ones
with high output and moderate success. And seeing as they have high standards
with non-football related things, I think that is about the best they can
expect. Here's to a good year for all our football teams in the state!
Proud UteCoaching changes are commonplace.Despite your
frantic and desperate wishes, BYU isn't the least bit worried that a bunch
of recruits are going to bail because of a couple of coaching changes. As long
as competent coaches are brought in the replace the departing coaches, the vast
majority of recruits won't even care.If I were U, I'd be
more worried about recruits bailing on the Utes because they aren't good
enough to play in a bowl anymore.
Guess Brandon had to hurry and get this article out before the commits
officially bailed on the coogs and he'd have to be even more creative on
the spin. At least now he can still list them.
Well? Utah State could have beat Notre Dame, Texas, Wisconson, Southern Cal,
and UCLA.How did their recruiting class compare to those? Chuckie
Keeton vs Jake Heaps?
The basic problems with the star system:- it doesn't account
for players playing against different levels of competition in high school- it doesn't account for late bloomers or players that have already
peaked- it doesn't account for the symbiotic relationship of a team
that is greater than the sum of its parts- it doesn't account for
playing in different systems that may highlight a player's strengths, while
hiding a player's weaknesses- it doesn't account for better or
weaker coaching at the high school or college leveland most
importantly- it doesn't account for an individual player's
drive to maximize his potentialIn other words, there are so many
variables and intangibles to consider, that it's impossible to predict an
individual player's college football success based solely on the number of
stars placed next to his name by some recruiting service.btw, USC,
in a down recruiting year, has FIFTEEN 4-star recruits; Utah and BYU have ONE
4-star recruit each.Based on stars alone, Utah and BYU would NEVER
have a chance of beating a team like USC.
Overall, and generally speaking, the star system is a pretty good indicator of a
team's talent. There are plenty of individual exceptions. However, we all
know the coaching staff is a big indicator of team success also. But, generally
speaking, a team must improve its recruiting to compete, and when a team
improves its recruiting, the star ranking of its players improves. Let's face it: BYU and Utah must improve their recruiting (which means
the star rankings of their recruits will rise) or there will be more seasons
ahead like 2012.
Hmm? Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, and some others constantly get top ten
recruiting.BYU beats Oklahoma, and loses by a point to Texas, while
Utah beats Alabama. Boise State, and TCU wins without a top ten recruiting
class.These star ratings are not accurate. Hmm? Wasn't Dennis
Pitta a walk on?
Just curious...are Van Noy, Hoffman, and Apo part Polynesians? Not that it
matters but I still would like to know. They are all great kids and love
watching them play. @ Ernest T. Bass,I long for the day
you'll post a sincere comment about BYU. When will you realize you
ain't fooling no one? Pity!It would be great if BYU can
attract the top athletes of the nation but as Chris B always says, it's
never going to happen and we know that. We'll just have to make do with
the talent we get and hope to continue to compete on a high level.Go
hoffman **>>apo ***>>heaps *****other than VN number
of stars havent really panned out at byu.just keep the polynesian
Everyone will be totally awesome I just know it.
One of the things I like about this recruiting class are the WRs. They
aren't very ranked very high in terms of "star power" but they are
more athletic than many of the typical past BYU receivers. Talon Shumway, Tanner
Shipley, and Michael Davis all run 4.5s. I also like Inoke Lotulelei, a smaller
guy who could play slot receiver. Coach Cahoon has the chance to coach these
guys up into very productive targets. The star ranking system is
really very interesting. We've seen examples of guys with lots of stars
(Jake Heaps) who don't pan out, but also guys with lots of stars (Kyle Van
Noy) who live up to the hype. The biggest difference I see between
the scholarship/star players and walk-ons is:Star players we've
heard of, and coaches of D-1 program saw their talents and saw fit to offer them
scholarships. Walk-ons are hit or miss because we don't know
about them. One walk-on I'm excited to see in the coming years
is Bryan Engstrom from Alta, a running back from Alta who alledgedly runs a 4.4
and looks good on film. We'll just see.
I really understand Bronco's apathy toward the star system. Someone earlier
mentioned 5-stars that didn't pan out with Ofa Mohetau and Jake Heaps. Let
throw Ben Olson in as well. Then we have people with zero stars that walked on
like Dennis Pitta and Ziggy Ansah. Cody Hoffman was recruited but only by BYU
and Sacramento State. I read an article last week (CBSSports.com,
maybe) that analyzed the 5-stars from 2008 as to how they panned out. A couple
have already made a mark in the NFL, some are expected to be major players this
year because they redshirted once, and about half of them got grades ranging
from C to F for their performance so far. Since success in football depends on a
good mixture of intelligence, heart, and physical skill or athleticism, it is
very difficult to predict how a recruit will do. Chad Lewis walked on at BYU,
went as an undrafted free agent to the NFL and became all-pro. Matt Leihnert won
the Heisman and barely stays in the league. Let's just wait to
see how it all shakes out.
What? A kicker is not on the list? If we don't have a guy who can put it
through the uprights on occasion in the 2013 Class, I would consider it a
An article like this is very incomplete without also covering which of these
recruits will be going on missions first, and naming the recruits that will be
returning from missions.
DonODraper, UTI wish the young men in the 2013 signing class well.
But IMO there will be a lot of wound-licking in Provo by the end of the 2013
football season.---------Perhaps the Utes could give them lessons.
They've had the entire bowl(less) season to practice...
Lets see, Apo was a star, Hoffman came in under the radar. Who do you want
runnin your routes and catchin your passes?Just sayin...
I wish the young men in the 2013 signing class well. But IMO there will be a lot
of wound-licking in Provo by the end of the 2013 football season. And it will be
surprising if BYU is not looking for a new head coach.
Currently the Y's recruiting class is rated 55th. That is with their two
highest rated recruits included yet both appear questionable - at best. Even
with their inclusion there are 31 teams whose class is rated higher in star
rating but lowere because of the number of recruits. No telling how low the
current class with be evaluated.... but I know this means nothing to the coach
Looking forward to next season, hope its a great one. Personally, I get more
excited about "diamonds in the rough" than a four or five start recruit;
I've seen at least two examples of high profile recruits (*****) at BYU
amount to little. Ofa Moheatu/Jake Heaps. I'm sure they're many more
examples. Independence is working out fine, BYU is still getting
fine recruits and I look forward to seeing many of them on the field in 3-4 more
years. Mr. B, for kicks, why don't you give us the number of
5, 4 and 3-star recruits joing the utes next year, thay way we know where to set
expectations for their season. Finally, why are you never the
"first poster" on ute articles? Surely, you're not that obssessed
with the Cougars!
@Chris BI think the names you're looking for are Dennis
Pitta...and Austin Collie...and Vic So'oto...and Bryan Kehl...
Before anyone goes off on an irrelevant tangent, remember that these recruits
are teenage men who have never played a down of college football in their lives.
Any attempts to judge their future collegiate ability through a 5 star rating
system is interesting at best and severly flawed at the least.In
other words, everyone should settle down until the young men actually play in a
few collegiate games.
Please, please, please sign a kicker!
Mendenhall was asked in a cable interview how he could win with the Honor Code.
His reply was that he won because of the Honor Code. Game, set, match.