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BYU, Utah, USU football teams more profitable than Utah Jazz

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  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Two For Flinching,

    Don't you realize that SOS is heavily considered when doing the rankings? That's why an undefeated team can be ranked outside the top 5, and it also explains why some 1-loss teams are ranked lower than some 2-loss teams. So in 2011 BYU was a top-25 team despite their weaker SOS, not because of it.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    "It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last season define's Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons."

    Yeah, it's so funny how Utah fans act as if the 2004 and 2008 seasons defined Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons. It is pretty ridiculous, don't you agree?

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 12, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    Two For Flinching

    BYU was good enough to beat #19 Utah State and #46 Georgia Tech, plus 5 other teams to qualify for a bowl.

    Stop whining because U weren't good enough to beat #44 Arizona and/or #56 Washington.

    With only one win against a team in the Top 60, it's easy to see why you weren't even ranked in the Top 60.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 12, 2013 1:11 a.m.

    twofer

    "It's hilarious that you continue to tout the final records and rankings, because they are a direct consequence of the schedule each team played."

    No, it's ridiculous that you fail to understand that final rankings are based on a combination of SOS AND final records.

    Finishing 8-5 against the #63 SOS is better than finishing 5-7 against the #41 SOS.

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but SOS is MEANINGLESS, if you don't WIN.

    #11 Florida State(66), #13 Ohio State(60), #14 Clemson(61) and #19 Utah State(97) all had similar or worse SOS than #26 BYU(63), but were all ranked higher because they had BETTER RECORDS than BYU.

    Utah's only wins - #26 BYU, #78 California, #104 Washington State, #156 Colorado, #171 Northern Colorado

    Let's face it; U were lucky to pull off a win against BYU, because the Cougars were the only decent team you beat all season. Stop whining because you weren't good enough to beat #44 Arizona or #56 Washington to qualify for a bowl.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2013 6:04 p.m.

    @ TrueBlue

    The team with five built in wins obviously has the better chance of qualifying for a bowl. You are assuming that teams ranked 26 through 95 are equal. Baylor and Michigan are not comparable to Western Michigan. Utah had less cupcakes and most of their "middle" teams were still in the upper half of the college football rankings. (UCLA, ASU, Arizona, UW, USC, BYU).

    It's hilarious that you continue to tout the final records and rankings, because they are a direct consequence of the schedule each team played. Next year BYU has stepped up their schedule and you will see a drop in the number of wins. Deep down I'm sure you know that already though.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Jan. 11, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    2fer

    Wrong!

    Which team has a better chance of finishing with a better record?

    Team Y: which plays FIVE Top 25 teams, FIVE bottom 25 teams, and TWO middle 70 teams

    or

    Team U: which plays TWO Top 25 teams, TWO bottom 25 teams, and EIGHT middle 70 teams

    If both teams are middle 70 teams,

    Team Y can pencil in FIVE losses and FIVE wins, which means they have to split their remaining two games against equivalent-level teams to break even.

    Team U can pencil in TWO losses and TWO wins, which means they have to split their remaining eight games against equivalent-level teams to break even.

    In other words, both teams have similar chances for success, so the team that actually finishes with the better record would be considered more successful against the competition they faced.

    It's laughable that you choose to obsess about SOS, while completely ignoring final records and final rankings.

    #26 BYU(8-5) - #63 SOS
    #61 Utah(5-7) - #41 SOS

    Someday our little friends on the hill will finally figure out that it doesn't matter how tough your SOS is, if you DON'T WIN!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    @ Swoop

    Wrong. Playing higher quality teams week in and week out equates to playing a tougher schedule. That is reflected in the rankings as Utah's SOS is ranked 20 spots higher than BYU's.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2013 12:26 a.m.

    2fer

    "Overall, Utah played higher quality teams week in and week out."

    But, BYU played a tougher schedule.

    ---------

    Uteology

    Best case scenario, the Utes would have finished 6-6 with loss to SDSU in their bowl, playing BYU's schedule. If you're going to claim a win instead of loss playing USU at home, then you have to accept a loss instead of a win playing BYU on the road.

    Worst case scenario, the Utes would have lost to both BYU and USU to finish 5-7, just as they did playing their own schedule.

    -------------

    "As far as SDSU? Well, except for TCU we haven't had a problem beating anyone from the MWC since 2008."

    You also haven't had a problem losing to 10-loss teams. Sorry, but SDSU would have stomped U.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    @ Snack PAC

    BYU also played teams ranked 161, 165, 174, 179. Overall, Utah played higher quality teams week in and week out.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Jan. 10, 2013 9:38 p.m.

    Naval Vet
    Philadelphia, PA

    "** Interesting factoid: Utah's Basketball program outpaced the Y's financially -- attendance notwithstanding. Utah grossed $5.9M, and netted $2.3M, whereas the Y grossed $5.9M, but netted only $172K."

    That's because going to the Dance is expensive, something Utah hasn't had to worry about for a while.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 10, 2013 6:25 p.m.

    WON84
    PLANO, TX

    "I don't see BYU fans flocking to comment on articles about the Utes"

    Seriously? You don't read ANY Ute articles then. Be realistic man!!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 10, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    If Utah had played BYU's schedule, the Utes would have lost to Utah State, San Jose State, Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech, and Oregon State, and San Diego State,

    -----------

    Nope. Utah State needed OT to win at home, I think we could have handled them at RES 20-17. Just like I think BYU would have lost at USU this year.

    Against Oregon State we lost on the road 21-7 while your best defense in history got punked 42-24 at home.

    As far as SDSU? Well, except for TCU we haven't had a problem beating anyone from the MWC since 2008 (4-1 vs BYU and 3-0 vs SDSU).

    So we would most likely go 8-5, just like BYU.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Jan. 10, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    "I applied and got IN. I spent my Freshman year at the Y before opting to transfer. That means I rejected the Y; not the other way around. Fail."

    Naval - This has consumed your life, posting on these boards to try and get back at BYU. Tell us what they did to you please.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Jan. 10, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    "No wonder there's so much anger and hate. Even when your rival has it's worst season, you still can't beat them. So then you quickly use the old "one game doesn't define a season" gag. I guess that, and not being in a BCS conference (being on the outside looking in) generates a lot of hate and animosity. It sure is shinning through on these threads. I love it!"

    Spokane, this discussion is being had on an article about BYU. I don't see BYU fans flocking to comment on articles about the Utes, or anyone really as there are usually 1-3 comments on those articles. So, you tell me who has the hate and animosity?

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Jan. 10, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    "The Runnin' Utes will be runnin' all the way to the bank as the University of Utah's football team posted $21.2 million in revenue and a $9.8 million profit. The BYU football team also netted some healthy earnings gaining $15.6 million in total revenue for a $4.89 million profit."

    Total figures aside, why is nearly 50% of Utah's revenue profit compared to around a third of BYU's?

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 10, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    Uteology

    Typical biased Utah spin that focuses only on SOS, while completely ignoring wins and losses.

    It's interesting that you used Sagarin's SOS rankings, but chose to ignore Sagarin's team rankings.

    After include both SOS AND wins/losses in his calculations, here are Sagarin's final rankings for 2011 and 2012.

    2011
    BYU #34 10-3
    Utah #39 8-5

    2012
    BYU #26 8-5
    Utah #61 5-7

    You also also chose to completely ignore the fact that BYU played FIVE ranked teams, while Utah only played TWO.

    If Utah had played BYU's schedule, the Utes would have lost to Utah State, San Jose State, Notre Dame, Boise State, Georgia Tech, and Oregon State, and San Diego State, IF the Utes had managed to be bowl eligible by beating all of the teams U should have beaten, which is hardly a given since Utah has proven that they're capable of losing to anybody.

    Bottom line, Utah would have been 6-7 or 5-7 playing BYU's schedule.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    Phantomblade,

    I don't know where you got the $415 million state appropriation figure. I reviewed my numbers and actually the U has a $2.5 billion annual operating budget and gets an annual $211 million appropriation from the State depending on the mood of the legislature. That is 8% of the U's operating budget. The legislature will always appropriate some money to the U to keep their foot in the door because they want a flag ship university and they get this for a bargain. That $211 million appropriation is returned to Utah's economy in terms of tax revenues and jobs many times over. The U is now tied with MIT in creating private companies that are a result of research and development done at the U. The State of Utah would literally go into an economic depression if the U was closed down. Yes, bemoan that $211 million dollar expense all you want but it is the best return on investment that the State of Utah has.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    @Just the FAX
    "Overall since BYU's Independence/Utah's move to PAC 12" ...

    Is irrelevant since the SOS is vastly different between the teams. For example:

    2011
    Utah SOS #49 ... 8-5
    BYU SOS #90 ... 10-3
    TCU SOS #86 ... 11-2

    2012
    Utah SOS #41 ... 5-7
    BYU SOS #63 ... 8-5
    TCU SOS #16 ... 7-6

    Are you telling us if Utah and TCU, the same two teams that own BYU, played BYU's schedule that they would have a worst record?

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 9, 2013 5:43 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Spin it however helps you sleep at night:

    AP/Coaches Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 18
    Utah 7

    AP/Coaches Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 10
    Utah 3

    AP/Coaches Top 10 Finishes
    BYU 4
    Utah 3

    AP/Coaches #1 Finishes
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    1964 Utah UR/14
    1977 BYU 20/16
    1979 BYU 13/12
    1980 BYU 12/12
    1981 BYU 13/11
    1983 BYU 7/7
    1984 BYU 1/1 National Champions
    1985 BYU 16/17
    1989 BYU 22/18
    1990 BYU 22/17
    1991 BYU 23/23
    1994 BYU 18/10, Utah 10/8
    1996 BYU 5/5
    2001 BYU 25/24
    2003 Utah 21/21
    2004 Utah 4/5
    2006 BYU 16/15
    2007 BYU 14/15
    2008 BYU 25/21, Utah 2/4
    2009 BYU 12/12, Utah 18/18
    2010 Utah UR/23
    2011 BYU UR/25

  • Mike Johnson Stafford, VA
    Jan. 9, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    USU reported $5,881,831 in revenues and $5,881,832 in expenses for the same period 2011-2012 for which the Utah and BYU figures are reported. (Although BYU has a different financial year--2 January to 1 January instead of 1 July to 30 June for the state schools, but they cover the same football season).

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 9, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Yeppers, two years defines the future of Utah's existence in the PAC 12. Just like it did when Arizona and Arizona State joined the conference. I wonder how many screen names the Utah Haters post under? The rant is always the same. Let's compare top 10 finishes and BCS bowl victories over the past 10 years, shall we? Of course not, let's spin it. Say top 25. Say we go back 30 years. It's always the same old song and dance. Utah has won 8 out of the last 11. Let's spin it, the games were won by a total of x amount of points. If a Utah fan says the sky is blue and the grass is green, the Utah Hater will say, not when it's over cast and not in Kentucky. It's really quite amussing. Especially when they get all bent out of shape. Case in Point!

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    @ toosmartforyou

    You ask why TCU vs. Loiusianna Tech viewership is relevant? The statistics from that game were taken from the 2011 Poinsettia Bowl. BYU vs. San Diego had many, many less viewers than the previous year, which would (from a BYU fan's perspective) feature two much less "nationally prominent" teams like TCU and Louisianna Tech. 29% less viewers than the previous year's game. And 38% less viewers than the 2010 game.

    Go ahead and chalk this up to "just one bowl game", but either BYU doesn't have the national draw you fans think they do, or you are all just bandwagon fans and jump off at the first sign of trouble....which I guess would have been the loss to Utah this year.

    All the studies out there on this go ask people "are you a BYU fan". Do you think a Mormon in Florida would say "no" to that question? No, even if he hasn't seen a game ever. The church affiliation is what drives these inflated study results.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    ToosmartforU,

    You brought this topic up so I will respond. I know you and some other people in this state do not like the "attitude" of the U so you don't want one penny of tax money going there no matter how small a percentage. Well, I am very active LDS and have been all my life and I have never complained that a lot of my tithing money goes to support BYU including the J. Rueben Clark Law School that puts out a lot of ACLU attorneys. In fact, at least two of the past Executive Directors of the ACLU for Utah are BYU law school graduates including the one who fought the Church and Salt Lake City over the Main Street Plaza issue. Not everything that happens at BYU with my tithing support makes me happy but I am not complaining. You brought it up.

    Phantomblade,

    The fact is every state sponsored higher education institution in Utah receives a bigger percentage of support from the state than the U does. UVU inparticular is very high. It is a matter of public record. Yet, the U benefits this state by being an economic power house.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I guess... not being in a BCS conference (being on the outside looking in) generates a lot of hate and animosity. It sure is shinning through on these threads."

    Being on the outside looking in at what, a perennial conference bottom dweller?

    Get real. NOBODY envies conference bottom feeders, regardless of which conference they're in.

    As you may have noticed, BYU fans are hardly angst-filled because the Utes have won a couple of recent head-to-head games. 5 of the last 7 games during the Bronco/Kyle era have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes of the game or in overtime.

    Hardly the type of "domination" that Utah fan humerously continue to spout.

    The fact that BYU has finished in the Top 25 FIVE of those seven seasons, versus only THREE Top 25 finishes for the Utes, shows which program has really been more successfu, overall.

    btw, how was the attendance at the couch potato chip bowl?

  • GD Syracuse, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    shots and dunks. There could be so much more but it will never happen. Anyway I don't really care anymore.
    Gary

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    Had BYU not gone independent and stayed in the Mtn West, they would be operating at either a loss or a very modest profit according to these stats.

    They were wise to go independent for not just exposure, but financially wise too.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:00 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last season define's Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons."

    What's so funny about it - the last two years are Utah's only two years in the PAC 12? Why shouldn't they define Utah's potential for the next 20 seasons? See Arizona post 1978.

    Here's a little history lesson:

    1964 - after dominating their previous conference, Utah won its 1st WAC championship, cracked the Top 20 for the first time, won a bowl game, and beat BYU, again.

    Utah wouldn't play in another bowl game for 28 years.

    1965 - BYU won its 1st conference championship and beat Utah for only the 4th time in history.

    By the time Utah played in its next bowl game in 1992, BYU had won a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy, finished in the Top 25 TEN times, won over a dozen conference championships, and had beaten Utah 18 out of 20 years from 1972 to 1991.

    Things can change quickly.

  • MESOUTE Albany, NY
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    Many others have made the obvious comment of how the Utes are running away from the Cougs in revenue and profitability even in years when they are not receiving a full share of conference $$$. This is nice. But the real story here is how in the world the Jazz can manage to lose 16.4 million!! WOW! Greg Miller is really running the organization into the ground.

  • yesterday Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    you get players for free. that's why.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    @navallint

    You continue to lose arguments, quit before you fall further behind.

    BYU has a "profitable" Athletic Program from top to bottom.
    Utah does not.

    (Looks like BYU's superior MBA program has paid off).

    BYU consistently has 8-10 Top 25 athletic programs, year after year.
    Utah does not.

    BYU cranks out All-Americans in just about every single sport, year after year.
    Utah does not.

    BYU far outpaces Utah with Academic All-Americans as well.

    BYU is Top 25 in Football and Basketball attendance, year after year.
    Utah is not.

    BYU outdraws Utah in every Olympic Sport, save gymnastics.

    BYU is a Tier One University Academically, Utah is not.
    Latest USNWR rankings BYU #68 Utah #127 (10th in the Pac)

    Every BYU game is seen Nationally and Internationally.
    Utah's are not.

    The problem with Utah is that even with their new (unearned) revenue, they are now and will continue to be dead last in athletic budgets and facilities in the Pac.

    Utah fans still think their competition is with BYU.
    It is not.
    It's with their Pac 12 brethren from now on.

    Cal, UCLA, Washington, ASU, Arizona all have major facility upgrades underway.
    Utah simply can't keep up.

  • DaveKnowsWhatsUp Bloomington, IN
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    justthefax- empirical evidence is a big concept and difficult for some to understand the importance of it...

    ute4ever- this is just my experience, but I've lived all over the country and have easily found more people who pay attention to, or at least know something about the sports program at BYU. Given, many of these are church members, but many are coworkers, neighbors, and just general friends who are sports fans in general. The only people I've ever met that follow the U are direct graduates, or people who have moved from SLC that intentionally hate BYU and follow Utah by default (fortunately these are in the minority). I know this isn't cold-hard fact, just my experience, but it's just as meaningful as spouting that BYU doesn't have a larger fanbase without at least having experience to back it up.

  • DaveKnowsWhatsUp Bloomington, IN
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    Navalvet- your 8:13 and 8:39 posts plus your response to me are all combative in nature (combative is synonymous with fighting). You're trying to spin anything you can to prove that Utah is somehow superior. Did BYU really make more money? I don't know, nor do I really care...some reports say they did, some say they didn't, depends on how you want to twist it. However, this is the entire point of my sarcasm that appears to have been lost. Does it really matter what one website says compared to another? Data can be turned in so many different ways, and it all comes back to the original point I was trying to make...Ute fans hate BYU because of the perceived arrogance. When Ute fans express their displeasure (sometimes in the extreme), BYU fans often respond in a way that justifies the Ute hatred, and the cycle continues. No matter how you spin the story of who's better, prettier, or richer, it all comes back to drumming up the same ageless argument. Trust me, I'm not "frantic and emotional", but it is entertaining to watch some so desperately defend their honor while attacking the other.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:10 p.m.

    It's so funny how BYU fans act as if this last season define's Utah's past, and coming 20 football seasons. The ironic thing is, that as bas as Utah was; they still beat the little guys from down south. No wonder there's so much anger and hate. Even when your rival has it's worst season, you still can't beat them. So then you quickly use the old "one game doesn't define a season" gag. I guess that, and not being in a BCS conference (being on the outside looking in) generates a lot of hate and animosity. It sure is shinning through on these threads. I love it!

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:03 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Exactly what poll was BYU ranked in?"

    2011
    BYU(10-3) - #25 Coaches, #26 AP, #34 Sagarin
    Utah(8-5) - unranked, #39 Sagarin

    2012
    BYU(8-5) - unranked, but bowl winner
    Utah(5-7) - unranked, and no bowl

    Overall since BYU's Independence/Utah's move to PAC 12 basement

    BYU(18-8) - one Top 25 finish, two bowl wins
    Utah(13-12) - no Top 25 finishes, one bowl win

  • manutd San Diego, CA
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    I am amazed at the time ute fans have to come up with detailed statistics and reports they pull from who knows where just to prove a silly point.

    Do you guys have jobs?

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    ute4ever

    "BYU does NOT have a wider fanbase than Utah."

    - dozens of marketing studies during the last 50 years directly refute that claim.

    "An average LDS person will say they are a BYU fan, even if they've never watched them play."

    - do you even one shred of imperical evidence to support your own personally biased opinion?

    "If BYU has a national presense (outside of Mormons), then explain why the Poinsettia bowl had the lowest viewership ratings since 2006?

    - no explanation needed; the viewership for one bowl game doesn't prove anything

    Mormon doesn't equal BYU fan, but that doesn't negate the fact that over 2/3's of BYU's students come from outside the state of Utah and tens of thousands of BYU alumni live all over the country and throughout the world. And that doesn't even include the tens of thousands of Mormons who are BYU fans, even though they've never attended school at BYU.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    @ ute4ever

    Nice spin job, even for a Ute partisan.

    Tell us, how many fans watched the Utes play in a bowl game this year?????

    You really think any Pointsettia Bowl is going to draw better than a Navy vs SDSU match-up, played in San Diego? And you think TCU vs Louisiana Tech is relevant to this discussion?

    Using that logic, those poor Utes were about zero this year, weren't they, in bowl game fan attendance.

    If you think BYU doesn't have a larger fan base than Utah, except in selected areas of Salt Lake City, you need to do some research.

    And yes, Utah is making lots of money, which is good, because their team is not.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    Dutchman

    If the UofU doesn't need the $415 million it received from the State of Utah in 2012, I'd suggest returning it to the state so those funds can be used by Utah State, Weber State, Utah Valley, Southern Utah, and other state colleges and universities who actually need and appreciate the investment Utah is making in their schools.

    The truth is, you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that "Not one dime of tax payer money goes to fund, operate, maintain or build anything having to do with the athletic programs, teams or coaches at the U."

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    @midpackmajor

    Exactly what poll was BYU ranked in? Sorry Fella, but teams that go 8-5 don't get ranked.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    Another comment about being "frantic and emotional?" Get a new tag line as that one is worn out and thread-bare.

    @ Dutchman

    No, I don't particularly feel better that my tax money, which is not optional to pay, goes to support the University of Utah in any fashion except medical research. The reason: they always are copping an "attitude."

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    phoenix

    Stop confusing the PACy-WACer's "superiority" delusion by introducing actual results into the discussion - the "conference of champions" bottom dwellers are confused enough as it is.

    They still don't understand how being ranked and winning a bowl game are superior to being unranked and playing in the couch potato bowl.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Can we put a longtime myth to rest today? We'll call it MythBusters, DesNews style?

    BYU does NOT have a wider fanbase than Utah. An average LDS person will say they are a BYU fan, even if they've never watched them play. So a Mormon does NOT equal a "fan", despite what BYU fans perpetuate.

    If BYU has a national presense (outside of Mormons), then explain why the Poinsettia bowl had the lowest viewership ratings since 2006? Explain why this years bowl was down in viewership by 29% from last year (TCU vs. Louisianna Tech) and 38% from 2010 (San Diego State vs. Navy). Also please explain how there were 400,000 more people watching Arizona vs. Nevada in the New Mexico Bowl and there were 600,000 more people watching the Famous Idaho Bowl (Utah State vs. Toledo). If BYU has such a national following, why don't they watch the most important game of the year?

    Answer: Mormon does not equal a REAL fan....just one that will claim they are a fan when they really can't answer the question "Who is BYU's starting quarterback".

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    There are several comments here lamenting that more of this athletic generated money is not allocated to the student athletes. It will interest all of you to know that under the guidance of PAC 12 commissioner, Larry Scott, the conference is laying the ground work to increase student aide to a level referred to as "The Full Cost of Attendance". When this is implemented it is estimated that aide to student athletes will increase anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 per student athlete above the cost of a scholarship. Granted, not a professional salary nor is it meant to be but an improvement. When implemented, other programs outside of the PAC 12 will have to follow suit in order to compete for recruits.

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 9, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    It's interesting that some of the biggest BYU haters are students who were either rejected by the Y when they applied or simply couldn't cut it after they were admitted, academcially or otherwise.

    They usually end up creating some excuse to blame BYU for some imaginary wrong committed by BYU to justify their hatred.

    Here's some advice - lose the hatred; it's not healthy.

    Find something to cheer for, instead of spending your life cheering against.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    DaveKnowsWhatsUp:

    "...how can real data show the real story??? Yet somehow Navalvet and ChrisB find ways to still fight it."

    What am I fighting? Do you have a cut-&-paste exerpt from me to refute, or were you just being frantic and emotional?

    "I guess if I would have applied to BYU and gotten denied, I'd be mad too."

    I applied and got IN. I spent my Freshman year at the Y before opting to transfer. That means I rejected the Y; not the other way around. Fail.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    @Hawkeye79
    Actually USC is 3rd and Arkansas is top 10 on there... that's not final ESPNU fan rankings, that's the preseason fan rankings results.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    @Hawkeye79
    That ESPNU fan rankings is based on the list of choices they were given and for some reason the choices they were given were the 30 teams in the preseason rankings (consider that Auburn is on there too).

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    Interesting factoids:

    The PACy-WACers still lag FAR behind their big brothers/sisters in overall athletic success.

    BYU's women's soccer and volleyball teams both made deep runs in the NCAA tournament during the fall, and BYU's men's volleyball (ranked #2) and men's indoor track (ranked #14) are both nationally ranked as their seasons are just getting started.

    In the Directors' Cup Division I Fall Standings. BYU finished #16; Utah was UNRANKED

    BYU Men's CC finished #6, Women's Soccer finished #5, and Women's Volleyball finished #9

    BYU Football also won their bowl game.

    And in facilities, it'll take the U years just to match the facilities already in place at the Y.

    More revenue doesn't mean much if it doesn't produce better results on the field.

  • DaveKnowsWhatsUp Bloomington, IN
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    Wait wait wait, how can real data show the real story??? Yet somehow Navalvet and ChrisB find ways to still fight it. And what exactly are we still fighting...yes, the Utes get up for a game and beat BYU but have mediocre seasons otherwise, BYU makes more money and has a wider fan base, but BYU will never have the same perks as the PAC10+2. We know all this. Besides, isn't the fact that BYU is richer, more popular, and allegedly snobby about it the reason the Ute fans hate BYU to begin with? Then of course, BYU fans have to respond self-righteously which only justifies the Ute hatred? Ah well, I guess if I would have applied to BYU and gotten denied, I'd be mad too

  • SoUtBoy25 Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    College football players are no more exploited than interns, medical residents, and a host of other people that have to earn their stripes.

  • SoUtBoy25 Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    What's even more impressive is that the Utes make nearly $2MM in profit for every football victory more than double BYU's paltry $1MM profit per victory. I only see than disparity continually growing.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    @bluto: if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to see it....does it make a sound? Translation to football = If BYU plays a nobody at 10:15 Estern time and nobody tunes in to see it....do they actually play?

    The ONLY thing BYU fans have in their war chest of arguements is that "my team is on ESPN". One problem with that boys. If the only time your exposure lead to eyes on the TV set were in your losses, does it really do any good? I don't think the exposure in losses to Utah, Boise State, Oregon State, and Notre Dame did anything for the reputation of BYU. All other games were wins against pathetic competition. Gloat about exposure, but it hurt BYU.

    There is a reason the Poinsettia Bowl viewer ship was down 30% from previous years, and it wasn't because BYU is a national draw. BYU fans need a real fact check when it comes to what weight your team holds in the "national eye". BYU is no more a national power for 1984 than Colorado is for 1990. Both national champions in those years. I guess BYU = Colorado.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    It's awesome being part of the PAC 12. Of course the revenue is great, especially the $20+ million coming from the TV contract. Personally, I like to be able to watch Utah on the PAC 12 channel. Watched several football games, and the Utah-Arizona basketball game on COMCAST channel 430 here in Spokane. It's great, prior to PAC 12 membership, I would never have been able to watch the Utes so often.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    @NavyVet

    Who is it that is on National TV every game and in every sport?
    Who is it that is a weekly regular on ESPN?...
    Not U, that's for sure.

    Obscurity...
    ob·scu·ri·ty
    /əbˈskyo͝oritē/

    Noun
    1.The state of being unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant.

    Again, who can be seen on National TV, constantly, and who is not?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 9, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    Bluto:

    "...BYU is doing just fine controlling their own Brand and the accompanying Exposure which that brings...The days of obscurity in the MWC are in the rear view mirror now for BYU."

    As are your days of obscurity in the WAC, since the WAC is now dead. Coming up next....your days of obscurity in Indy-irrelevance.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Why would I,

    Fact: The University of Utah has a $2.2 billion dollar operating budget which does not include athletics. State tax payers contribute 8% of that. The U operates as a public university but is financed more like a private university.

    Fact: Not one dime of tax payer money goes to fund, operate, maintain or build anything having to do with the athletic programs, teams or coaches at the U.

    Do you feel better now?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    Excellent information!

    You are correct, these number are not up to date nor current.
    They do not reflect BYU since Independence whatsoever.

    Here is more current data regarding BYU and Utah's athletic budgets...

    Utah
    Reporting year 7/1/2011 - 6/30/2012

    $20,759,062 revenues (Football)
    $14,835,266 expenses (Football)

    Total Salaries (coaches)
    mens $6,016,192
    womens $2,005,609
    total $8,021,801

    Grand Total Revenues for all Teams $46,153,197
    Grand Total Revenues Minus Grand Total Expenses $0 (profit)

    BYU
    Reporting year 1/2/2011 - 1/1/2012

    $22,406,413 revenues (Football)
    $14,991,538 expenses (Football)

    Total Salaries (coaches)
    mens $3,101,580
    womens $1,172,420
    total $4,274,000

    Grand Total Revenues for all Teams $53,033,500
    Grand Total Revenues Minus Grand Total Expenses $4,698,770 (profit)

    Again, BYU is doing just fine controlling their own Brand and the accompanying Exposure which that brings.

    The days of obscurity in the MWC are in the rear view mirror now for BYU.

  • Old Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    Players commit way too much of their life to make money for the school. Some of these guys are never the same after playing college football. Knees, back, neck are all jacked up.

    While the schools make millions. And pay coaches millions. Total joke.

    Athletes are restricted from working. Internships are almost impossible to do.

    They all hope to go to the NFL but most don't. They jeopardize the rest of their life by being too tired to really get into school and learn. Football dominates their life. Coaches, media, fans..everyone is wearing them out.

    They pay too high of a price just to be manipulated by the schools in exchange for a scholarship.

  • PGVikingDad Pleasant Grove, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Missing from this equation: Pro teams do not have dozens of other athletic teams to support. What about the costs associated with BYU/Utah softball, gymnastics, basketball, diving, swimming, Track and Field, soccer, baseball, volleyball, etc.? Viewed in isolation, football turns a profit, but those profits are necessarily funneled to underwrite other unprofitable sports.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    @Y Grad / Y Dad Kraylon

    Actually they don't....

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    Let me get this right. So Utah's profit from football is roughly twice that of BYU, even when they haven't gotten a full share of the TV revenue? But I thought ESPN was paying BYU boatloads of money to be shown every Saturday night at 10:15 EST against the likes of New Mexico State.

    As one astute poster pointed out, it might partially be because of the PAC12 logos the Utes have sold. BYU has been trying to cash in on the independence logo, but Holmoe is still doing Google searches to see if there are any of those in stock around and can't find them.

    Besides the money, I just like attending with my season tickets knowing it will actually be a game. I was tired of walking into RES knowing Utah would beat Wyoming by 20 points. I much prefer to trade in my 11-0 season for a competitive league that is a challenge to win each week. I hope they finish higher than this year, but the PAC12 trade was a huge blessing in the lives of us Utah fans.

  • ManInTheMiddle SANDY, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    The article completely fails to realize the business model of college sports. The real revenue in college sports is donations. Get to good bowl game and the donations come in. The real dollars in college football are all about white tent events where overly optimistic alumni feel their team is destined to become/remain a great dynasty and they want to be part of it. These donors want access to the players, to practices, to the best seats, to fancy parties and they want their name on buildings and in programs. They pay hundreds of millions of dollars for these "perks." That's where the real money is made.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    Hawk - With 35 bowls this year, it's hard to believe Utah was pathetic enough to not make one... Wait, no it's not.

  • cougar76 Raleigh, NC
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    Just like government welfare: Some take what others earned.

  • SLCguy Murray, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Biff,

    Newsflash, things have changed in 25 years. 10 times more money is generated off video game contracts and TV today than were EVER generated by everything 2 decades ago. ESPN has already signed a BILLION dollar contract with the SEC alone.

    Did you know video game contracts allow EA Sports to use the student players in their video games forever without ANY compensation? (Oscar Robertson is still being used and he graduated in 1961)

    That Jersey sale money goes straight past the student who's jersey the fans are buying?

    Yes, a "world class" (whatever that means) education is worth something; but the BCS Colleges prosper FAR more off of the players than the players EVER get from their University. I mean they don't even pay for the health insurance of those same players! Not because it's right, but because they don't have to.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 9, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    Did anyone see the final ESPNU fan rankings? It looks like a bunch of Utah fans tried to boost the school's profile.

    That's right, according to the fan rankings the bowl ineligible 5-7 Utes finished ranked #28 in the nation. They must have been counting moral victories as well.

  • Alaskan Coug Anchorage, AK
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    Interesting data, and of course comparing a business model that is ‘largely” unpaid (except free tuition and housing) will make more then one that over pays its main employees millions. For this to be more meaningful if should look at the last 3-5 years to see a more accurate picture. Also I wonder about the figures about BYU as I know BYU does NOT release this kind of financial information (did someone just guess?) They may be making more or less then this story indicates. Knowing the way BYU runs its institution I expect it is making more then these figures show and still have lower tuition for its students. I also understand that BYU’s Football and Basketball keep the whole athletic department in the blue and therefore the Athletic departments “costs” the school $0. per year. I wonder about U of U and other schools total Athletic budget / costs. So with U of U making this money is the whole athletic department covered or do we still spend tax money on the athletic department?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:39 a.m.

    GoatNapper:

    I looked at the report you referenced. It showed Utah's Football program grossed $20.8M, and netted $5.9M, but it did not cite where the revenues came from. Was that just ticket sales and stadium concessions? Did it include Utah's share of the conference championship game and bowl revenues? We know it didn't include TV revenue since Utah got $0 in 2011.

    The Indy-WACers program grossed $22.4M, and netted $7.4M, so that would mean that either TV revenues were left out, or that the Y cashing ESPN checks only nets $1.5M more than the U with no TV revenue. Either way, by the time the 2012-13 figures come out, look to see the Utes' profits pull even FURTHER away from our little brother.

    ** Interesting factoid: Utah's Basketball program outpaced the Y's financially -- attendance notwithstanding. Utah grossed $5.9M, and netted $2.3M, whereas the Y grossed $5.9M, but netted only $172K.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:20 a.m.

    BYU Cougars, Utah Utes and Utah Jazz?

    Wow, three mediocre franchises mentioned in one headline....snore.....

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    CougarPride11:

    "It was all those Pac12 stickers that Utah sold..."

    No, the article was very specific. Utah's profit was for the Football program ONLY! Not the entire athletic department. Utah Football does not profit from "Pac-12" licensed sales. The Pac-12 does.

  • GoatNapper High Hill, MO
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    Lazy Reporting here. The numbers for BYU are 2 years old and cover the reporting period for calendar year 2010, when BYU was still in the MWC. The real data can be found by googling "equity in athletics data cutting tool." I'd put the link here, but you're not allowed to post links. Select "get data from one institution," and search for Brigham Young and then Utah. Click on Revenue and Expenses.

    BYU generated $22.4M in revenue in 2011, and had $14.9M in expenses. For the same reporting year Utah generated 20.7M in revenue and had expenses of $14.8M.

  • Nussdorfer AC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    It helps when you don't have to pay your players.

  • Stephen Kent Ehat Lindon, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:52 a.m.

    It is the entertainment industry with a helmet and shoulder pads. Make room on the bench, Hollywood.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    I take exception to those calling for collegiate athletes to be paid. How much is a world class education worth? Don't give me that baloney. Collegiate athletes are pampered beyond belief especially when you consider the resources avialable to them that the average student can't afford. Football revenues rightly support many other programs and are a driving force at successful schools, but don't tell me that the payers need a salary. BTW, I'm a former collegiate athlete: BYU football 1986-1992.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    Of course were ritcher than the jazz and Ute. We have fans in China and a real nation following.

  • milner Centerfield Sanpete, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:29 a.m.

    Really! You mean when you pay players millions of dollars you make less than when they play for free?

  • SLCguy Murray, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 7:10 a.m.

    OF COURSE the Universities make a HUGE profit. They don't pay their workforce (the players) at all! No, getting paid in tuition (forced buying of goods from the company store) does NOT compensate them fairly for what they do.

    This also in...... water is wet and winter is cold.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 6:38 a.m.

    Of course they are.

    Exploiting "amateur" athletes is always going to be more profitable than having to pay athletes.

    But that don't make it right.

  • Why would I? Farmington, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:46 a.m.

    Why not also list the price of season tickets? You know, those who bother to show up for the games on a consistent basis, and ask them their feelings about ticket prices?

    I stopped attending Jazz games a few years ago after I scrimped to afford to take my family to see a home game vs. Orlando and after the game Jerry Sloan said "The fans deserve better." I wanted to call and ask him where I could apply, based upon his statement, for a refund.

    Sorry, but I can't afford to support millionaries who may "show up" for the game, but may not, as well. There's a reason Utah is in last place in their NBA Division.

  • Why would I? Farmington, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 3:34 a.m.

    Why would I hope that increased revenue for a state school might lower my state income taxes just a bit? It will never happen. The Utes will go to the Rose Bowl or win a National Championship before our taxes go down on increased revenues and we all know the chances of that happening, don't we?

    Maybe USU will want a new, bigger stadium, too, and the U needs more seating capacity to really fit into the PAC 12. Wait, perhaps not; for their best season in school history USU couldn't get 18,000 fans in the stands for each of their last three games and the Utes finished in the bottom 4 of their conference with no bowl, along side of Colorado and Washington State. Each of their stadiums are already too big.

    But I'm happy the U at least gets more money because that's all they are getting out of the deal.

  • CougarPride11 Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    It was all those Pac12 stickers that Utah sold...

  • manutd San Diego, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    So basically good call on ditching the MTN, and avoiding big least.
    I recall BYU getting a lot of slack for that. Makes $ense. Also makes it extremely unlikely to ever go back unless they offer same package as boise st.

    Same for utes. No brainer leaving for pac12. Even if it means being bottom feeder for now.

  • Y's Guy Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 10:47 p.m.

    Chris B
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I love my BCS member$hip!

    Of course you do, Chris. And you pocket how much of that? Oh, yeah--the same amount a BYU fan pockets. :)

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    Dear Metejeman those profits go to support, baseball, volleyball, tennis, softball, swimming etc. so there is no profit when it is all done.

  • Proud Ute ,
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:54 p.m.

    I never get tired of that picture either.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:50 p.m.

    I love my BCS member$hip!

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:35 p.m.

    re plyxply 5:09 p.m. Jan. 8

    You know what would bring in cash & interest? Finally, Changing the name. Where's my MBA?

    re: Y Grad / Y Dad 6:01 p.m. Jan. 8

    I wouldn't say that. Does byu 's profit include $ from a certain network in New England?

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:27 p.m.

    Utes make more money than BYU, really, does that surprise anyone? Get over it, BYU's priority was exposure and broadcast rights before money!

    Utah made the right choice for them and should eventually be a conference contender in both football and basketball. Certainly BYU made the right choice with independence over the MWC and now defunct 'The Mtn'! Also great call in not joining the Big East!

    Both teams should be happy about where they are now compared with 2 years ago. Now if only USU can continue to move up and get a better deal with the MWC in the future (like BSU)!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:53 p.m.

    Wow! See all the money coming from a national championship game, and players get free tuition? How much do advertisers pay?

  • Mctejman Farmington, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:45 p.m.

    What this story tells me is that BYU and Utah ticket prices are WAAAAAYYYYYY too high

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:04 p.m.

    Go Utes!! Goes to show that even getting a fractional share of the payout from the Conference of Champions trumps independence (irrelevance).

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:01 p.m.

    Look at that, all my Ute friends! An article that requires no spin or redefinition: the Utah football program earned more and profited more than the BYU football program.

    No clever rejoinders, honest! Enjoy the moment.

  • Red and Blue VANCOUVER, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Should this be a wake up call for Jazz management and coaches?

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    When the Utes recieve a full share of the pac 12 TV contract in addition to what they recieve from the Pac 12 network and bowl revenue their total will be in the $30 million - $35 million range. The gap between the those in the big leagues and those that are not continue to widen.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    Interesting information. I find it disheartening that Greg Miller has plummeted the Jazz in such a short period of time from what his father built.
    I think it goes back to Greg Miller and KOC not supporting Jerry Sloan in the episode with DWill and essentially telling all of the players that they would support them in any conflict with the coach. Nobody respects that type of owner, and the players don't have to make an effort anymore. Nobody wants to pay outrageous ticket prices to watch poor effort by average NBA players. Nice job Greg, and to top it all off you can't even make a profit.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    Good news for the Utes and Cougs. Expect Utah's revenue and profit to increase over the next few years as more PAC12 TV money kicks in.

    If wins don't follow the same upward trajectory as revenue expect to see Whit looking for a new job.